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NQ you need to fix PVP and ASAP!


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Just now, Revelcro said:

 

They make as little sense as the post of people asking for safe zones to be removed entirely right now or for T3 ore to removed from the safe zones right now.  Its just laughable.  Are they honestly running out of people to shoot?  Is pvp that dead right now?

I don't disagree that at this stage removing safe zones is a bad move.

 

The borg cube meta needs to die. The hit chance needs to start working based on ship size. Damage toned way down and so on.

 

PvP right now is at best in a proof of concept stage rather than an actual well defined game mechanic. 

 

Which is why the type of posts saying that it needs to be fixed 'NOW' or the game is dead are absurd.

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I do not agree with a list that pretty much says "remove any sting from PVP without asking me to put in effort defending against it"   The glass walls that are being put up in safezones whic

First let me say I support PVP completely. But its gotta change and asap in DU. Right now PVP in DU is nothing more than griefing other players, for the sake of griefing. I've watched a few streams of

I think the 3 inner planets should remain pvp free. But we definitely need atmo pvp on the other planets. (but please NQ warn us about the changes before those happen, and I mean US, all players, no

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Are you aware you can get to any planet, and any ore right now completely side stepping pvp? People have to willingly go into the pvp zone,, which you don't need to. That must have went over your head didnt jt?

 

Wow you poor thing, you might run outa people to shoot lol.  So the only thing to pvp right now are the people too stupid to avoid pvp zones and too broke to afford a warp drive?  Geez the top pvp guilds must be seriously bored.

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Just now, Revelcro said:

 

Wow you poor thing, you might run outa people to shoot lol.  So the only thing to pvp right now are the people too stupid to avoid pvp zones and too broke to afford a warp drive?  Geez the top pvp guilds must be seriously bored.

I'm just explaining current mechanics to you. Because you post very opinionated things and you dont even know the mechanics of the game you are playing, and you yourself admitted to never being shot at, yet you call for 25% damage reduction.  In what world does that make sense? Why would anyone listen to you when you have zero experience? In your delusional state, do you think a dev is gonna read your post and go  "wow, this guy is giving valuable feedback even tho he hasn't tested our mechanics, we better listen and reduce damage to and exact percentage he suggests".

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4 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

 

Wow you poor thing, you might run outa people to shoot lol.  So the only thing to pvp right now are the people too stupid to avoid pvp zones and too broke to afford a warp drive?  Geez the top pvp guilds must be seriously bored.

Yes. 

 

But from my perspective that's entirely expected right now given the optional and pointless nature of pvp areas.

 

Realistically years from now as the game is fleshed out and the concept of territory control becomes an actual thing instead of a 'vision' - then yeah the pvp guild may actually have a reason to exist and do stuff.

 

Regardless of how you feel about PvP, you have to understand that it MUST exist and it MUST be active in this game for the game to survive. PvP is pretty much the only resource sink in the game. Without it, everything you produce is worthless as everyone gets fat and bloated on resources and ships that they don't lose.

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7 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Yes. 

 

But from my perspective that's entirely expected right now given the optional and pointless nature of pvp areas.

 

Realistically years from now as the game is fleshed out and the concept of territory control becomes an actual thing instead of a 'vision' - then yeah the pvp guild may actually have a reason to exist and do stuff.

 

Regardless of how you feel about PvP, you have to understand that it MUST exist and it MUST be active in this game for the game to survive. PvP is pretty much the only resource sink in the game. Without it, everything you produce is worthless as everyone gets fat and bloated on resources and ships that they don't lose.

100% agree.

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16 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

I'm just explaining current mechanics to you. Because you post very opinionated things and you dont even know the mechanics of the game you are playing, and you yourself admitted to never being shot at, yet you call for 25% damage reduction.  In what world does that make sense? Why would anyone listen to you when you have zero experience? In your delusional state, do you think a dev is gonna read your post and go  "wow, this guy is giving valuable feedback even tho he hasn't tested our mechanics, we better listen and reduce damage to and exact percentage he suggests".

 

Can you give us your incredibly experienced play by play of pvp in the current seat from your viewpoint?  Tell us how the grand combat is playing out then.  Your take and opinion from one who has taken so many kills in the game lately.  

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3 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

 

Can you give us your incredibly experienced play by play of pvp in the current seat from your viewpoint?  Tell us how the grand combat is playing out then.  Your take and opinion from one who has taken so many kills in the game lately.  

I can tell you exactly as I have before. 5% of the pvp has been implemented said straight from the Devs mouth.  Its ongoing development and beta isnt even 1 month old. I listen to people that make sane arguments regarding balanced metas.  I'm patient knowing its gonna take a lot of time to get pvp to a "good place". What I dont listen to are people who think they shouldn't be shot or ganked. Preparing yourself to go into the pvp zone falls on your shoulders.   

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Also, what if the devs are thinking about adding shields? You don't even know they might it's been suggested. I'd that's the case then element and voxel damage is probably perfect right now. Makes sense that when shields go down, things go boom quick. We need more info from devs and also personal experience in pvp zone to give valid meaningful feedback.

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Arguing over a game mechanic is only partially implemented.... summed up in a nutshell.

 

fking casuals- "This needs to be nerfed or the game will die!"

 

Everyone else who is ACTUALLY Testing stuff- "PVP is a WIP, get good or stay in the safe zone.."

 

me - eating some popcorn and enjoying the show.

 

Also, your going to loose your ship at some point. whether thru your own error and crashing it on a planet or by it being blown up. if you can't take the time to prepare, or expect to keep that ship forever. than you clearly have no idea about how these kind of games work.  

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1 hour ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Eve has been around 18 years with this exact scenario you described.  What's laughable is you.  Your personal ideals on pvp arent the devs. In eve people grind months/years for supers/titans and get ganked moving them through dangerous areas solo.  To me it looks like you backed the wrong game.  But your attitude is pure dog shit, and I question your IQ. Main reason is because YOU have bias or feelings about how a game should be played and project that in a way you think everyone should feel. I personally hate games like fortnight or MMOs like WoW. But I understand people have different tastes then me. I understand why people play them, and I'm glad those people have those options. People like ME want games like this, even If they arent as popular.  I'll say this again. 

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU BACKED THE WRONG GAME, DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FUCKING RIGHT TO COME HERE LIKE AN ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT DEMANDING CHANGE TO SUIIT ONLY YOUR NEEDS. So please fuck off. And have a good day too. 

What turns me off from the community is people like this...

 

In the same breath that they call someone "dog shit" for having "bias or feelings about how a game should be played"...they express their personal feelings for how a game should be played. Strongly.

 

Calm. Down.

 

This isn't your personal game. You can't possibly speak for the devs.

 

This whole post drips in hypocrisy. "How dare you demand the game suits your needs...it should suit people like ME" is just...it sounds like a tantrum, frankly. 

 

NQ's poor communication is a big reason people are so unreasonably angry.

 

They haven't really communicated a clear vision for PVP -- probably because they don't even know yet because the game is still in beta. There's many, many factors that will determine how PVP plays out from investors to server costs. It has jack to do with you. 

 

If you're going to argue about something that is truly unknowable, at least do it with a shred of dignity. 

 

If you aren't going to provide something useful to the forums, you're the one that should "please fuck off". It isn't helpful. It's just aimless rage. 

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6 minutes ago, michaelk said:

What turns me off from the community is people like this...

 

In the same breath that they call someone "dog shit" for having "bias or feelings about how a game should be played"...they express their personal feelings for how a game should be played. Strongly.

 

Calm. Down.

 

This isn't your personal game. You can't possibly speak for the devs.

 

This whole post drips in hypocrisy. "How dare you demand the game suits your needs...it should suit people like ME" is just...it sounds like a tantrum, frankly. 

 

NQ's poor communication is a big reason people are so unreasonably angry.

 

They haven't really communicated a clear vision for PVP -- probably because they don't even know yet because the game is still in beta. There's many, many factors that will determine how PVP plays out from investors to server costs. It has jack to do with you. 

 

If you're going to argue about something that is truly unknowable, at least do it with a shred of dignity. 

 

If you aren't going to provide something useful to the forums, you're the one that should "please fuck off". It isn't helpful. It's just aimless rage. 

They REALLY have communicated their vision of pvp, that it would be self governed with limited safe zones (sanctuary moon) that has been quite explicit.  PvP being on the of the four pillars of the game, again they have been very explicit about that.  That is it not currently ready and will not be the focus on development short term - yes they show that in the roadmap.  They have also created a pvp space that is COMPLETELY avoidable, you can get everything and reach every planet WITHOUT ever having to risk pvp. 

All I see if people who havent understood that, now wanting it changed.  We CAN speak for the devs, because the devs have actually communicated their vision of the game very well IMHO.  It is just some people are choosing to completely ignore that in place of what THEY want the game to be.

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9 minutes ago, michaelk said:

What turns me off from the community is people like this...

 

In the same breath that they call someone "dog shit" for having "bias or feelings about how a game should be played"...they express their personal feelings for how a game should be played. Strongly.

 

Calm. Down.

 

This isn't your personal game. You can't possibly speak for the devs.

 

This whole post drips in hypocrisy. "How dare you demand the game suits your needs...it should suit people like ME" is just...it sounds like a tantrum, frankly. 

 

NQ's poor communication is a big reason people are so unreasonably angry.

 

They haven't really communicated a clear vision for PVP -- probably because they don't even know yet because the game is still in beta. There's many, many factors that will determine how PVP plays out from investors to server costs. It has jack to do with you. 

 

If you're going to argue about something that is truly unknowable, at least do it with a shred of dignity. 

 

If you aren't going to provide something useful to the forums, you're the one that should "please fuck off". It isn't helpful. It's just aimless rage. 

I can post exactly what the devs and JC said, that this game will be open world FFA pvp, with small safe zones. It will be  player driven content. Anything else is just balance.  They have communicated that many times. Just because people ignore it, fly into pvp zone and get 1 shot in ships with 5m3 of voxels, doesn't give them a right to demand change, and especially when they demand it now. 

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Nothing excuses childish tantrums.

 

It's very likely that their detailed plans for PVP will evolve as the game does. There's nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions, even if you think it runs counter to what the game should be or a vision communicated early in development. If you don't like an idea, you don't have to agree with it.

 

People have every right to demand whatever they want. The game is still in development. They paid. They can say what they do or don't like about it. NQ can agree or disagree. What's the big deal? 

 

Anything is open to change, and NQ is going to make changes based on a mess of factors from investors to server costs to subscription churns. 

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5 minutes ago, michaelk said:

Nothing excuses childish tantrums.

 

It's very likely that their detailed plans for PVP will evolve as the game does. There's nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions, even if you think it runs counter to what the game should be or a vision communicated early in development. If you don't like an idea, you don't have to agree with it.

 

People have every right to demand whatever they want. The game is still in development. They paid. They can say what they do or don't like about it. NQ can agree or disagree. What's the big deal? 

 

Anything is open to change, and NQ is going to make changes based on a mess of factors from investors to server costs to subscription churns. 

No shit changes are coming. If people have a right to post their opinions then I have a right to criticize them. And if they post opinions with 0 knowledge of current mechanics, or have not even participated in said mechanics, then why should anyone listen? When that happens they are just posting about stuff that will suit their needs only. I have posted many times about how I think there should be many options for haulers and non-pvers to move through the pvp zone without dying. Nothing 100% but definitely options for skilled and prepared people. But you will notice it's mostly people complaining who went into the pvp zone ill prepared and even blind (no radar) making outrageous demands. That's the problem. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

No shit changes are coming. If people have a right to post their opinions then I have a right to criticize them. And if they post opinions with 0 knowledge of current mechanics, or have not even participated in said mechanics, then why should anyone listen? When that happens they are just posting about stuff that will suit their needs only. I have posted many times about how I think there should be many options for haulers and non-pvers to move through the pvp zone without dying. Nothing 100% but definitely options for skilled and prepared people. But you will notice it's mostly people complaining who went into the pvp zone ill prepared and even blind (no radar) making outrageous demands. That's the problem. 

Great...completely agree! 

 

Just...next time maybe stop before becoming super angry and calling people dog shit...? 

 

Let's show NQ that players can handle building autonomous civilizations by acting like civilized people. People can be wrong or misinformed without being trash (especially when we're talking about a video game and not real life). 

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

No shit changes are coming. If people have a right to post their opinions then I have a right to criticize them. And if they post opinions with 0 knowledge of current mechanics, or have not even participated in said mechanics, then why should anyone listen? When that happens they are just posting about stuff that will suit their needs only. I have posted many times about how I think there should be many options for haulers and non-pvers to move through the pvp zone without dying. Nothing 100% but definitely options for skilled and prepared people. But you will notice it's mostly people complaining who went into the pvp zone ill prepared and even blind (no radar) making outrageous demands. That's the problem. 

Actually I think you will find that even those complaining HAVENT actually been shot at either, they are basing there drastic proposals on 'videos' lol

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On 9/16/2020 at 9:18 PM, Proxie said:

First let me say I support PVP completely. But its gotta change and asap in DU. Right now PVP in DU is nothing more than griefing other players, for the sake of griefing. I've watched a few streams of people get destroyed today in PVP. In all 12 encounters I saw, they were all dead before they knew what was happening. This is not fun. Fun PVP is a fight, where ships and skills are tested against one another. Someone wins and someone loses. The PVP moments I've seen and experienced in the game are not that at all. In all cases I've seen, PVP has been utterly one-sided and over in moments. There was so little opportunity for response, that I wouldn't even classify it as PVP at all.

 

There's no way in DU to understand or become experienced in ship-to-ship combat other than PVP. The people who got into PVP before you are so much better, with ships so much more focused on your death, that there's no real ramp up. You just die, and then get set back days or weeks. And the only way to improve is to do it again. That's if it's consensual. You might just want to progress in your projects, and need copper. Too bad. You're now engaged in PVP. Oh - you didn't dedicate yourself to learning PVP? Reset 2 weeks. Reset 10 days.

Nothing is engaging about this. It's so one-sided and bereft of interaction, it might as well be a bug or a glitch destroying your ship.

This has to change. If it stays like this, DU will be catering to an extreme niche of people who aren't nominally there to make use of all the creative tools - but instead will min/max ships designed for the sole purpose of murdering other people as efficiently as possible. That's fun only for those people. There aren't enough of those people to support the success of an MMO. No one watches two weeks of work put into a ship build disappear in an instant and thinks, "this is so much fun!"

 

Things that absolutely must be changed for the game to be successful.

  1. Weapon ranges needs to be reduced to no more than 2.5k. This forces all parties involved to have to actually fight each other in a proper battle.
  2. Weapon damage needs to be reduced by 75%. Right now it frankly doesn't matter what material you build your ship out of, because weapon damage is too high, and chews through everything. It makes building anything other than a layered box ship pointless.
  3. Space safe zone should be permanent and never removed for any reason. This will allow trade and civilization to grow. Players should not be forced into PVP if that's not what they are interested in.
  4. Planets in space safe zone should never have PVP either. For the same reasons as above. Players should not be forced into PVP if that's not what they are interested in. Having a single safe moon, is frankly a stupid idea. Lets put everyone to a moon, force them to deal with lag, over population, etc. Nope...people will legit just leave the game.
  5. Ship and Base shields need to be a thing. So players have proper defense.
  6. Ships moving over 10,000 should not be able to fire weapons.


Unless some serious changes are made to PVP in DU. The game will not be successful. As the CEO of NQ has stated on many streams this is a civilization game, not a PVP game. The Devs need to start making players fully aware of this. Unregulated PVP will completely ruin the game we all want.

 

Just look at what's happening now, players building walls at warp points to grief players using warp. This also needs to be fixed, and the players suspended for 30 days for doing it. NQ you need to draw a line in the sand when it comes to these issues now and set the place. 

No.  Just no.

 

Good God no. 

 

You are trying to turn fights into slap fears that will last minutes to hours. 

I will agree that weapons do to much damage, but reducing the damage by 75% is wrong.  Half maybe 40% more likely.  

Don't reduce range of weapons.  Just add more chances to miss at longer ranges.  

 

Add more variation between the weapons.  Half of the weapon types are useless and only one size is viable.  

 

Restrict weapon size to the size of the core.  

 

Base detection range on the total cross section of the vessel not on it's core.  

 

These things will go a long way to fixing or at least adjusting pvp to the better.

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1 hour ago, michaelk said:

Great...completely agree! 

 

Just...next time maybe stop before becoming super angry and calling people dog shit...? 

 

 

Awww but it's entertaining watching him have a meltdown over a comment that diverges from his playstyle.  Look he's got over 150 internet points, let him have this.  He probably NEEDS this.  I say let him shitpost.

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Hey folks,

 

I got a bit tired reading through this seemingly endless fight and couldn't find the silver vein of constructive communication that I was looking for.

On the contrary - it was pretty easy to find multiple violations of the forum rules. So here's a reminder what they contain.

Quote

(III) Following actions are prohibited:

  • ...
  • Trolling (provoking) people.
  • Flaming (insulting, attacking) people. Picking fights isn’t a good way to make your point. It usually means you don’t have one and are just trying to cause trouble.
  • Using profanity. Including creative spelling or character substitution to bypass word filters.
  • ...

 

I don't think this thread will turn around anymore. Closed.

 

Sincerely

Mondlicht

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