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Busterguy

When will the space safe zone be removed?

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1 hour ago, Palad1n said:

Not sure why you would want to force PvP with the current badly broken system that needs a complete overhaul. o.O  

That is the point they are NOT forcing PvP, you can get EVERYTHING from the three planets / moons, if you want to go to other planets get a WD, ZERO need to enter pvp = pvp is currently 100% consensual in its present state FACT.  You do not need to enter into the pvp zone unless to are ready to either fight or flight.

Our org has operations on 8 planets, I have spent 60% of my time in space, both flying to various planets and warping, I have radars on all my ships, do you know how many other players ships I have seen in that time...... ZERO.  Never been shot at, even waved at.  Anyone getting killed in space at the moment it is 100% user error.

PvP zone is a testing zone, enter it at your own risk, NQ will not expand it until PvP is ready, which will not be for some time.  So chill out and stop making these knickerwetting threads.

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Thanks for solving my doubts, I was thinking of buying the game, but if this sand box is going to become another boring game where you only build a ship for the rest of the people to contemplate on reddit, I don't see the point in paying a monthly fee For that, I have other games for this purpose, when I play an mmo, I hope to compete in some way with the rest of the players, and if a game that includes the creation of armed ships, who do you want to shoot with those weapons that the game implements? The pacifist PVE community is ruining all the sand boxes, full pvp games do not die because of the pvp players, but because of the crying community that causes the developers to nerf the pvp. And make PvP players leave, and with no pvp playets the fun is over, include for the PvE people, why there are no one who can contemplate his perfect ship, or build resources on the market.

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I would like to try to understand why people who want indiscriminate pvp (and precise - indiscriminate - because pvp itself is certainly not bad, if regulated) keep saying that those who don't want it are worried about pixels.

What should it be? A provocation I guess.
I refuse to believe that you can be convinced of such a stupid thing.

The concept is very simple.
Those who pvp do it because they like it. In this sense it means that it causes him positive feelings.
Assuming this, it is impossible that one cannot understand that since pvp is a subjective activity, there are people who like these emotions and others don't like them.

And for those who wanted a pvp game, it has already been clearly stated several times: this game will have an open pvp as part of the game, not the primary activity.

 

PS: what is the name of the repair module? this is very interesting

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47 minutes ago, Leogradance said:

The concept is very simple.
Those who pvp do it because they like it. In this sense it means that it causes him positive feelings.

Completely wrong sorry I run an org with 20+ people, NONE of them 'like' pvp in as far as they do not play the game for pvp, they do not look for pvp, they joined an industrial org, BUT 100% of those players ACCEPT that pvp is part of the game that they bought, and that it WILL EVENTUALLY be mainly player regulated.  All your comments are based on the ridiculous notion that it is only players that LOOK for pvp that want it is the game, this is fundamentally WRONG, sorry and I can put your in contact with 20+ org leaders who feel the same way. There are a lot of groups in this game who will be happy to defend the assets of those willing to work with them.

We are working together, alongside other orgs, to put in place measures to make sure when PvP EVENTUALLY (several months away) comes to the rest of the game we are prepared for it.  So should everyone else.

Noone is yet to address my point that you can do everything in the game currently with zero risk of pvp anyway (apart from fly in certain areas of space where there is nothing to do but pvp)

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1 hour ago, Sycopata said:

Thanks for solving my doubts, I was thinking of buying the game, but if this sand box is going to become another boring game where you only build a ship for the rest of the people to contemplate on reddit, I don't see the point in paying a monthly fee For that, I have other games for this purpose, when I play an mmo, I hope to compete in some way with the rest of the players, and if a game that includes the creation of armed ships, who do you want to shoot with those weapons that the game implements? The pacifist PVE community is ruining all the sand boxes, full pvp games do not die because of the pvp players, but because of the crying community that causes the developers to nerf the pvp. And make PvP players leave, and with no pvp playets the fun is over, include for the PvE people, why there are no one who can contemplate his perfect ship, or build resources on the market.

Dont worry, the devs have so far not moved from their vision of open world self policed pvp, there is still a lot of hope and a lot of players ON ALL SIDES who want it in the game.

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2 hours ago, Sycopata said:

And make PvP players leave, and with no pvp playets the fun is over, include for the PvE people,

 

The funny thing here is that your are in fact making the exact statement and hold the same opinion as the people you accuse.

 

Why would PVP players leave when they can't "get to" people who do not want to PVP? Why are you, by your own admission here, defining the success of PVP by the ability to prey and attack those who do not have the ability to defend or do not wan to be attacked? Why are you not able to find and fight others who are interested and engage in PVP? Is there something about the risk of actually being killed by a better or smarter PVP player that holds you back?

 

Fact is that if PVP were to be removed form the game today, it would mostly continue as it is, far more people are interested in building and designing. Now, I would be the first person to admit PVP brings an element to the game that makes it better but the notion the game would fail if PVP were not there is only true from the perspective of the PVP oriented player and it is their personal truth, not the absolute one.

 

It's just amazing how some of you PVP  "players" are really just looking for the risk averse kills and will no doubt start crying foul as soon as NQ bring in mechanics that will allow non combattant players a better chance of not getting killed while not actively engaging such as jammers, stealth tech and other counter measures besides putting weapons on ships. The one crying here is you, not the PVE players actually.



DU is not a PVP centric game, PVP is part of the the game loop, it's not at the center of it. 

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35 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

It's just amazing how some of you PVP  "players" are really just looking for the risk averse kills and will no doubt start crying foul as soon as NQ bring in mechanics that will allow non combattant players a better chance of not getting killed while not actively engaging such as jammers, stealth tech and other counter measures besides putting weapons on ships. The one crying here is you, not the PVE players actually.



DU is not a PVP centric game, PVP is part of the the game loop, it's not at the center of it. 

And here is the key point, we have NO IDEA what NQ have planned, so lets not all start lobbying for change until we do, they current pvp in the game is a completely optional non event, anyone who claims anything else has an agenda.

I do agree btw, I think we will be seeing a LOT of tears from pvp players when NQ do start to balance things out, should be amusing.  Whilst I am all for pvp, that is ONLY if it is balanced to the extent that a good player can protect their assets, regardless of risk.

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10 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Whilst I am all for pvp, that is ONLY if it is balanced to the extent that a good player can protect their assets, regardless of risk.

 

And here we have the core point I can not agree enough with; everything needs to risk reward but it needs to be balanced. A non combattant player should not be forced to have to engage in PVP, they need to have means at their disposal allowing them to reduce the risk to the point where they are willing to accept it for the possible rewards. Countermeasures provide that option combined with a more balanced arsenal available to PVP oriented players.. And that is where the cat and mouse games begin which is the fun part ;)
 

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As someone who has been engaging in PVP for the last week and a half, I can assure you that PVP is currently quite balanced.  I would even hazard that the "balance" is heavily tilted in favor of the party that want's to nope out of there.  Safe zones are quite large, and radars can spot potential adversaries at 2SU (400km).  The biggest issue the poor innocent non-PVP industrialist types have is that they have put no thought whatsoever into designing their ships with PVP in mind, and are consequently unable to meaningfully effect the outcome of a confrontation once the "PVPer" has initiated it.  I have killed quite a few cargo ships that were quite adequate for carrying cargo off of planets and through space to Alioth or wherever, (and a few that were barely even capable of that) but to a ship, they have been built out of the cheapest materials, with no consideration to armoring anything.  It is entirely possible to haul kilotons of ore from place to place in a transport ship, even through blockades, but you need to design your ship to handle it and at least have an escort through dangerous areas. 

tl;d if you want to do your peaceful industry on Sanctuary, and just make pretty ships, you have to pay to protect your incoming shipments.  The alternative is to develop a contract with an org that is willing to supply you with stuff from PVP areas.

 

If you are a solo player or small group, consider signing on with a larger org for protection.  Just about every big org needs miners and industrialists, and they will happily let you do that while they go off and fight bad guys for you.  Being in a big org in DU is not like other games.

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19 minutes ago, Thor Wotansen said:

 

tl;d if you want to do your peaceful industry on Sanctuary, and just make pretty ships, you have to pay to protect your incoming shipments.  The alternative is to develop a contract with an org that is willing to supply you with stuff from PVP areas.

 

If you are a solo player or small group, consider signing on with a larger org for protection.  Just about every big org needs miners and industrialists, and they will happily let you do that while they go off and fight bad guys for you.  Being in a big org in DU is not like other games.

You make a great argument to no bother playing at all.

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Having seen they very same arguments, using the very same terms "Rick vs Reward" "Sandbox" "balance" years ago in EvE and seeing how that turned into a pile of crap, Not even sure if its worth wasting the time playing. 

 

Thankfully I have until the end of Beta to figure it out because at the moment the PvP crowd just seem to Want EvE 2.

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9 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Having seen they very same arguments, using the very same terms "Rick vs Reward" "Sandbox" "balance" years ago in EvE and seeing how that turned into a pile of crap, Not even sure if its worth wasting the time playing. 

 

Thankfully I have until the end of Beta to figure it out because at the moment the PvP crowd just seem to Want EvE 2.

Might just want to step out now then. JC has been very open about his desire to see pirates flourish. NQ contains several former EVE devs. The game is full of hundreds of current and former EVE players. 

 

I think its also worth pointing out that the majority of the top 10 orgs exist for pvp. BOOs driving goal is to fight and to take people's stuff. The AC wants to do the same thing. At the end of the day you should be hoping for systems that give pvp more depth. Even if it doesn't encourage more people to pvp, maybe itll make people feel slightly less cheated when they get ganked.

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14 minutes ago, Noddles said:

Might just want to step out now then. JC has been very open about his desire to see pirates flourish. NQ contains several former EVE devs. The game is full of hundreds of current and former EVE players. 

 

I think its also worth pointing out that the majority of the top 10 orgs exist for pvp. BOOs driving goal is to fight and to take people's stuff. The AC wants to do the same thing. At the end of the day you should be hoping for systems that give pvp more depth. Even if it doesn't encourage more people to pvp, maybe itll make people feel slightly less cheated when they get ganked.

Thanks for saving me the time. Another EvE is just a massive waste of time.

Would have been nice if it said something like "If you thought EvE was a huge pile of crap, you wont like this because we are using the turds from the same bucket."

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52 minutes ago, Thor Wotansen said:

As someone who has been engaging in PVP for the last week and a half, I can assure you that PVP is currently quite balanced.  I would even hazard that the "balance" is heavily tilted in favor of the party that want's to nope out of there.  Safe zones are quite large, and radars can spot potential adversaries at 2SU (400km).  The biggest issue the poor innocent non-PVP industrialist types have is that they have put no thought whatsoever into designing their ships with PVP in mind, and are consequently unable to meaningfully effect the outcome of a confrontation once the "PVPer" has initiated it.  I have killed quite a few cargo ships that were quite adequate for carrying cargo off of planets and through space to Alioth or wherever, (and a few that were barely even capable of that) but to a ship, they have been built out of the cheapest materials, with no consideration to armoring anything.  It is entirely possible to haul kilotons of ore from place to place in a transport ship, even through blockades, but you need to design your ship to handle it and at least have an escort through dangerous areas. 

tl;d if you want to do your peaceful industry on Sanctuary, and just make pretty ships, you have to pay to protect your incoming shipments.  The alternative is to develop a contract with an org that is willing to supply you with stuff from PVP areas.

 

If you are a solo player or small group, consider signing on with a larger org for protection.  Just about every big org needs miners and industrialists, and they will happily let you do that while they go off and fight bad guys for you.  Being in a big org in DU is not like other games.

The key point here is that ANYONE getting killed by pvp has clearly no idea what they are doing, so they will be easy meat, WHY ARE THEY THERE?  There is zero reason to venture into pvp area for anyone unless you know what you are doing. 

 

15 minutes ago, Noddles said:

Might just want to step out now then. JC has been very open about his desire to see pirates flourish. NQ contains several former EVE devs. The game is full of hundreds of current and former EVE players. 

 

I think its also worth pointing out that the majority of the top 10 orgs exist for pvp. BOOs driving goal is to fight and to take people's stuff. The AC wants to do the same thing. At the end of the day you should be hoping for systems that give pvp more depth. Even if it doesn't encourage more people to pvp, maybe itll make people feel slightly less cheated when they get ganked.

This actually not true, as far as I am aware whilst many of the main orgs see pvp as a key part of their org, it is only that, a part of it (from the leaders I know anyway).  Most large orgs have publicly stated they are NOT interested in small scale pvp / raiding etc more the larger scale territory based warfare. Please do not act as if pvp is the KEY DRIVER for this game, it is about as far from the mark as those what to turn it into spaceville.  It is one of many key elements, which needs to be balanced with the rest.

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18 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Thanks for saving me the time. Another EvE is just a massive waste of time.

Would have been nice if it said something like "If you thought EvE was a huge pile of crap, you wont like this because we are using the turds from the same bucket."

So you didnt like a game, bought a game which is pretty much exactly similar and are now complaining that they are similar.  Brilliant...............

I would ask for your stuff, but not sure it is worth it.

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Just now, Moosegun said:

So you didnt like a game, bought a game which is pretty much exactly similar and are now complaining that they are similar.  Brilliant...............

I would ask for your stuff, but not sure it is worth it.

Actually I love this game but did not know it was going to just be a mark 2 of one of the biggest piles of shit in history. 

 

But each to their own, you enjoy the theft, piracy, account looting and finally the game owners doing exactly what they are told in fear of losing money. Fuck that shit.

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7 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Actually I love this game but did not know it was going to just be a mark 2 of one of the biggest piles of shit in history. 

 

But each to their own, you enjoy the theft, piracy, account looting and finally the game owners doing exactly what they are told in fear of losing money. Fuck that shit.

Kthxbi.

 

You evidently don't love this game, because it's not, and never has been, and hopefully never will be, what you thought it was, if you didn't see that it was going to be very EvE-y. It's obviously been the love child of MineCraft and EvE since I first read about it. So obvious I can't see how anyone could miss it.

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2 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Ahhh EvE at its best.

I've expanded on my thought. Just giving you what you need. Really. If you aren't interested in an Eve-like environment, in all honesty and with no ill will at all, this was never the game for you. Simple as that.

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2 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

I've expanded on my thought. Just giving you what you need. Really. If you aren't interested in an Eve-like environment, in all honesty and with no ill will at all, this was never the game for you. Simple as that.

I never thought it was supposed to be the bucket of shit EvE is does not even come close to saying that any where.

 

But oh well shit happens. It was a good game with potential but if it is Just EvE 2. Not really any point is there.

 

So have fun.

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EVE also has tons of ways to mitigate and control risk.  The fact that something like Signal Cartel exists and thrives in EVE is proof enough of that (Wormhole/0.0 Corp that exists where players are not allowed to attack first, that also maintains some utterly beautiful tools for publicly mapping wormhole connections, and performs rescue ops as well).

 

it’s pivotal that an MMO provides a chill space that is also interesting to play in.  Whenever I return to EVE it’s usually returning to Signal Cartel for a month or two, and then during that time developing contacts/contacting people for where I want to go from there (have done everything from SOV F1 monkey, SOV logi, and enjoying the wild ride of joining a new WH Corp 3 times because they’re quite fun whether they succeed or fail).  That’s only possible in a PvP MMO that has interesting green spaces, since if I needed to be “sponsored" by an EVE Corp from day one of rejoining (to do interesting content) I would not have bothered even download the client.

 

The fact that there are supposedly EVE players here, and that there are EVE developers in NQ... should mean that this conversation is pointless, since it’s obvious interesting green zones should exist and be interesting.   And the cramped, laggy, and buggy Sanctuary moons are so “bad" that the community almost universally tells players to not be there.

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42 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

This actually not true, as far as I am aware whilst many of the main orgs see pvp as a key part of their org, it is only that, a part of it (from the leaders I know anyway).  Most large orgs have publicly stated they are NOT interested in small scale pvp / raiding etc more the larger scale territory based warfare. Please do not act as if pvp is the KEY DRIVER for this game, it is about as far from the mark as those what to turn it into spaceville.  It is one of many key elements, which needs to be balanced with the rest.

I hope there are plenty of people interested in large scale TW. I also hope that the mechanics around it make small scale TW possible but either not worth it for big ORGs and risky for small ones. Some of that will, I think the devs hope, be mediated by the players. If the "cost" to go to war is scaled with the size of attacker and defender, it may be that small orgs can raid other small orgs, but if that small org has a big org friend, the raider would be risking their very existence, or at least their ability to operate. Making it cheap for defenders to call in friends, but expensive for the attackers to, would be an interesting mechanic. Not sure how it might fit into "Lore" but frankly, this game's "Lore" is so nebulous and broken that I'm happy to completely ignore it and go for the gamist implementattions for the geopolitical aspects.

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EVE is a game which is very playable solo and very playable if you have no interest in PVP. I'd be interested to hear which former EVE devs are employed by NQ outside of the one we know of and who in fact left CCP many, many years ago. I also do not think it matters as DU is not EVE and while it clearly shows it is "inspired" by some EVE mechanics, it is an entirely different beast.

 

I do not know where someone find the comments from JC where he says he wants piracy to flourish. All he has even said to my knowledge (in podcasts and Twitch Q&A) is that it is the intent for NQ to drive players to consider alternatives besides combat to resolve issues and disputes and that they feel combat should come at a (considerable) cost. He also very explicitly stated that NQ will design (planet/ground) combat so that it favors defense over offense.

 

People who spend all their time at this stage complaining about PVP really need to stop and maybe even stop playing while NQ balances and evolves the different mechanics. The same goes for those on the PVP side who just cut of any argument with "just add weapons". Both of you are jumping the proverbial gun and talk out of turn to be honest. PV in it's current first iteration will change and those not looking to fight will get their options to not do so or at least reduce the chance of having to do so I am sure. 

NQ wants DU to be a world for all walks of life, not more for one than the other and to accomplish that they will need to compromise each side of the story to accommodate the other to exists, there is no ifs or buts about that and if that is not what you want then DU is probably not for you.

 

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44 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

EVE is a game which is very playable solo and very playable if you have no interest in PVP. I'd be interested to hear which former EVE devs are employed by NQ outside of the one we know of and who in fact left CCP many, many years ago. I also do not think it matters as DU is not EVE and while it clearly shows it is "inspired" by some EVE mechanics, it is an entirely different beast.

 

I do not know where someone find the comments from JC where he says he wants piracy to flourish. All he has even said to my knowledge (in podcasts and Twitch Q&A) is that it is the intent for NQ to drive players to consider alternatives besides combat to resolve issues and disputes and that they feel combat should come at a (considerable) cost. He also very explicitly stated that NQ will design (planet/ground) combat so that it favors defense over offense.

 

People who spend all their time at this stage complaining about PVP really need to stop and maybe even stop playing while NQ balances and evolves the different mechanics. The same goes for those on the PVP side who just cut of any argument with "just add weapons". Both of you are jumping the proverbial gun and talk out of turn to be honest. PV in it's current first iteration will change and those not looking to fight will get their options to not do so or at least reduce the chance of having to do so I am sure. 

NQ wants DU to be a world for all walks of life, not more for one than the other and to accomplish that they will need to compromise each side of the story to accommodate the other to exists, there is no ifs or buts about that and if that is not what you want then DU is probably not for you.

 

As someone who has not spent much time following the game, the risk that it will become EvE 2 is too great. Personally I will be happier just not wasting my time and money. I have no problem with PvP so long as it serves a purpose, in EvE the purpose is to destroy the game play of those who do not want to be in a pvp corp. So frankly as this seems to be where this game is going I will save my time and find another game to play. 

 

After all why bother spending years again, to see the basics of the game destroyed to keep a small number of people happy.

 

Anyway I have enjoyed conversing with you on these forums at time, so have fun and Enjoy EvE 2.

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54 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

As someone who has not spent much time following the game, the risk that it will become EvE 2 is too great. Personally I will be happier just not wasting my time and money. I have no problem with PvP so long as it serves a purpose, in EvE the purpose is to destroy the game play of those who do not want to be in a pvp corp. So frankly as this seems to be where this game is going I will save my time and find another game to play. 

 

After all why bother spending years again, to see the basics of the game destroyed to keep a small number of people happy.

 

Anyway I have enjoyed conversing with you on these forums at time, so have fun and Enjoy EvE 2.

Hahahahahahaha.  You're an alpha backer, and you didn't hear JC name drop eve on MULTIPLE interviews even as far back as 2+ years ago. He point blank said "EvE was a big inspiration". Why do you think we have DAC? Open market? Time based skills identical to eve? Dude, YOU backed the wrong game. Take the L gracefully.  EvE esque games might be a waste to you, but not to those who love them, including NQ who is making DU, a game with a player run universe with emergant gameplay. 

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