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From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

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7 hours ago, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

There's already a 3PP for ships. See the latest long-play alpha demo in NQ's official youtube channel towards the end.

 

As for 3PP for the avatar. No. The devs already answered that: It's not efficient to add that in, it makes little difference and 1PP is more immersive most of the time (obviously that's subjective): It simply cuts down on work required and makes a better interface with 1PP. If there is the option it's outside dev scope for a release candidate. They may review post-release oc. I presume it will come to a head (nice pun) with combat too and any aiming reticle too.

 

Overall I think they've made a very wise decision here. I have tended to prefer a 3PP in MMOs, but seeing so many "jogging avatars" it adds very little and ends up looking a complete mess very often too. As you say there might be some reasons with respect to perspective eg blind spots or cinematic views but they're sufficiently important, "nice to have's only". The screen is a big interface for the UI and for the voxel stuff and simply a window for the player; removing a floating avatar getting in the way of all that is a stronger approach.

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9 hours ago, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

When poorly implemented then It'll only be used for cheating. It's not as easy as "just implement a 3rd person view" in a MMO,  there are a lot of things you have to consider 

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4 hours ago, Borb_1 said:

There's already a 3PP for ships. See the latest long-play alpha demo in NQ's official youtube channel towards the end.

 

As for 3PP for the avatar. No. The devs already answered that: It's not efficient to add that in, it makes little difference and 1PP is more immersive most of the time (obviously that's subjective): It simply cuts down on work required and makes a better interface with 1PP. If there is the option it's outside dev scope for a release candidate. They may review post-release oc. I presume it will come to a head (nice pun) with combat too and any aiming reticle too.

 

Overall I think they've made a very wise decision here. I have tended to prefer a 3PP in MMOs, but seeing so many "jogging avatars" it adds very little and ends up looking a complete mess very often too. As you say there might be some reasons with respect to perspective eg blind spots or cinematic views but they're sufficiently important, "nice to have's only". The screen is a big interface for the UI and for the voxel stuff and simply a window for the player; removing a floating avatar getting in the way of all that is a stronger approach.

I see, I didn't notice that. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Lethys said:

NDA 

Nope, it's not

 

https://support.dualthegame.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002024353-Dual-Universe-inputs-commands

 

Toggle 3rd person with [INSERT] as seen in the piloting command overview.

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 5:33 AM, MarcusTheDerp said:

From all the trailers, gameplay, and other things related to Dual Universe, I dont see third person anywhere, only first person. You will need third person, not only when your walking around, but in a ship, in a ground vehicle, mounting a turret, or anything with a chair. If you were to be piloting a fighter, or maybe a even big ship the size of a capital ship, you will need third person. There are many blind spots that you cant see in first person, and you cant get cool cinematic views without third person.

I disagree though, there should be no 3rd person, and for good reason, it removes a lot of roles for crew in larger ship, and it is less immersive.

Why would you need to think about landing procedures if you can just go 3rd person and fix your positioning? landing platmors and hangar designs would need little to no thought, as would fighters, the only reason for 3rd person in my opinion is to remove the need of other players and to make the games learning curve an instant gratification type mechanic, which the game inherently is not. It reduces the hard earned piloting skills that should be earned over hundreds or thousands of hours to maybe 20-30 and thats not how it should be imo. lock everyoe to 1st person permanently, if you want a scenic shot, have someone fly outside and take a fly by picture.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jack_Blade said:

I disagree though, there should be no 3rd person, and for good reason, it removes a lot of roles for crew in larger ship, and it is less immersive.

Why would you need to think about landing procedures if you can just go 3rd person and fix your positioning? landing platmors and hangar designs would need little to no thought, as would fighters, the only reason for 3rd person in my opinion is to remove the need of other players and to make the games learning curve an instant gratification type mechanic, which the game inherently is not. It reduces the hard earned piloting skills that should be earned over hundreds or thousands of hours to maybe 20-30 and thats not how it should be imo. lock everyoe to 1st person permanently, if you want a scenic shot, have someone fly outside and take a fly by picture.

 

Alright that's a fair argument but let's clear up the positions here for clarity:

 

1. Complex landing = More crew roles

2. Complex landing = more immersive (less complex landing therefore is less immersive)

3. 3rdPP = Easier to land therefore 1stPP makes landing harder

4. By implication: DU is "hard earned piloting SKILLS earned over 00's / 000's of hours vs 20-30's" (is this skill training or player skill?!)

5. picture taking: Should be restricted to other players

 

Those are the arguments being made, there's about 5 of them.

 

In isolation the statement more crew roles is well made. But adding it to more complex landing. That component needs examining.

 

A) Complex landing is seen in Star Citizen (a space sim which demands as such). It looks BORING. It looks FRUSTRATING. It adds very little immersion beyond perhaps the 1st time or 2. In fact it also reminds me of the CHORE of getting in and out of ships and cockpits which also has realism/immersion but ends up being GRINDY. Multiply by many players many times and it's imo a BAD gameplay design idea. About Crew Roles, this still holds but I don't think this is a realistic way to manage it.

B ) Take a positive alternative: The old Elite game had a tricky skill system of aligning your ship reticle with the rectangle to get into space stations and you'd blow up if you got it wrong. It perversely could be the most risky time of a mission. It was relief to do it successfully but after say x20 there was an upgrade to auto-docking sequence with 3rd person view video recording while the Blue Danude played in the background and you could relax happily as you docked and kicked-back sipping your refreshment.

C) For sure but the space sim crowd is incredibly niche. Most players just want grindy stuff like landing to be auto- and even 3rdPP view to enjoy the experience of piloting as opposed to millimetres of frustration.

D) I don't know how the skill-training system will work for Piloting as a skill, presumably though as a part of that maybe that is necessary and a good idea. Doubt it will be so exaggerated hours as you suggest though. Maybe it will also be ship piloting landing skill for different sizes the more you train it? No bearings on this yet.

E) This is not a good idea. Players like taking pics, like looking at the visual gratification of their ship designs in action and for combat, it just adds frustration whereas 3rdPP adds utility and fun.

 

I think your positive ideas are:

 

I) Crew Roles via Skill Training - How? Not player skill system though.

II) 3rdPP is easier to land but the subsequent is that is appropriate not inappropriate.

 

But they are independent of your consequents.

 

Peeling back to the original subject: Landing should be simple given it's frequency and it's link between ship gameplay and non-ship gameplay.

 

Edit: NQ just tweeted this picture of a ship hangar:  

 

See those ships just floating about, people just want to PARK their ship amongst others in a busy place and bustle about doing things instead of feeling like a bull in a china shop. Maybe there's at least 5 ships parked in there in view on the solo, coop size scale? I've seen videos of SC where it looks like trying to stuff a cow down a rabbit hole or even worse squeezing a ship into the back of the ship and it looks more like trying to get gameplay to work than just working invisibly so that actual gameplay chosen by players can carry on...

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3rd person will be crucial for content creation. And content creation will be a big marketing/sale channel for DU.

Besides, JC has already stated that there will be a proper 3rd person mode in the game.

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