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Can these things be crafted?

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I'm planning on creating a shipyard and i have several dozen ships in mind to create, from large to small, and there are going to be a ton of hurdles to doing this. I'm curious if I can craft a few things to make life a bit easier.

 

1 Safe Zone: In the interviews JC mentioned that there would be a safe zone around the starting area where pvp is disabled. Personally I despise pvp in any game no matter what it is, except smash bros :), but I know i'm in the minority. If all my time, attention and resources are devoted to ship building, i'm a sitting duck for any pirate or scab that wants to make my life hell. I have created an organization I intend to be faction neutral and specifically for the shipyard and owned territory. Being able to erect a safe zone around it would me the freedom and peace of mind to work without the worry of being set upon.

 

2 Economy Structures: With the scale and number of ships I intend to create resources with be a major problem. If I can create a bank nearby that might help me manage resources a bit better. If I was also able to craft an auction house nearby that would also help me rapidly gain resources I would naturally chew through with the scope of ship design I intend. If I were to craft the auction house perhaps I might be able to extract a fee for use of that particular auction house, say 1%. Not of all transactions, only of those that take place through the one I create that is in my territory. 

 

If I can combine these I could most likely create a thriving neutral environment that I could use to keep my ship building running smoothly, thats my hope anyway. Any chance?

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To the first point, you will not be able to construct your own safe zones, instead, they will be discoverable (and likely very valuable) throughout the galaxy. 

 

You will have to defend yourself, or go out far enough to where people won't find you very easily (perhaps even underground?). It may sound like a bad thing, but if everyone could build their own safe zones they might never have a reason to leave them or group together to establish larger safer colonies.

 

As to point #2, I don't know about banks, but you will be able to build your own markets (which is effectively what you're talking about here). And you (as we were told) should be able to set your own tax rate on them to raise some credits. Of course, if you have an insanely high rate people might just choose to go a little bit further to get somewhere where selling will be profitable for them (or where prices are cheaper).

 

 

I think a key thing to take away from all of this is that you will have to interact with other people in some way or another to get things done, you won't be able to just go out by yourself and be completely safe getting everything done on your own. Part of that "thriving economy" depends on the interaction of players between each other, much like the real world economy. 

 

I could write pages about how the economy might work in DU, suffice to say that the wealth of the economy depends entirely on the number of people playing the game. The more people, the better. 

 

 

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Everything is PvP, but it doesn't all involve violence. Merchants compete to sell their goods, designers compete to build the best designs, miners to get the best ore, and everyone competes to make money. Yamamushi gave an excellent answer IMHO.

 

I would add to that, that it may be "safer" to join a larger group rather than try and stay in the safezone. In the territory of a large org, surrounded by allies you are much less likely to have problems than even in a safe zone which can be accessed by anyone. It also gives you better access to cheaper resources and a ready demand for new ships.

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As both guys before me said already:

 

better "buy" your safety by joining a larger alliance and surround yourself with allies and friends.

 

Maybe we'll have dedicated bank mechanics - who knows. What we do know is we can build markets and you can, as the owner, set taxes on them. So this would work kind of like a bank.

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I hope you can build specialized building plus blueprint and sell them in the game! It would save so much time and help the building challenged members in the community if we could sell our buildings to others and generate some commerce also.  I have 3 ideas/themes on my note book I am working with right now : Industrial , eco , and functional but might not have enough time in the day to do 3 so I might have to pick one to start.

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On 7/7/2017 at 1:28 AM, Wardonis said:

I'm planning on creating a shipyard and i have several dozen ships in mind to create, from large to small, and there are going to be a ton of hurdles to doing this. I'm curious if I can craft a few things to make life a bit easier.

 

1 Safe Zone: In the interviews JC mentioned that there would be a safe zone around the starting area where pvp is disabled. Personally I despise pvp in any game no matter what it is, except smash bros :), but I know i'm in the minority

 

I hope that this won't be possible!

 

You want to engage in such an endeavor? Great, but you have to face a risk.

 

If you are allowed to run such a business (basically) without any danger what-so-ever, then the game will have serious problems. Basically you will be an untouchable god! You will be filthy rich, you will provide ships for both sides of a conflict and you will be 100% safe. A safety that will be delivered to you by the game itself, while you do nothing in that (safety) department. As such, I totally oppose what you propose.

 

That said, there are ways for you to avoid pvp. a) Make your shipyards one of those "safe zones" that will be difficult to destroy (but also difficult to create). Not as safe as the landing safe zone (aka 100%) but better than nothing, b ) hire mercenaries to patrol and protect your assets.

 

 

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1. There is only 1 truly "safe" zone that we know of, i.e. the area around the arkship on the starter planet Alioth. There's been talk of the possibility of other similar safe zones being discovered elsewhere in the galaxy, but that will in all likelihood not happen until we start travelling to other solar systems, which will only become practical several months to a year after launch.

As for building your own safe zone, that will supposedly be partially possible by deploying a very expensive and power-hungry shield element on your claimed territory hex. It's intended for use by medium to large orgs., and the costs involved will likely scale accordingly. It's not a true safe zone though, the shield can be destroyed in combat, it will just take a lot of time and effort. It's also not clear when exactly this "shield bubble" element will be implemented in the game, it may not be there at launch yet.

 

2. You can certainly construct your own market. I've no doubt that half the player base will be doing exactly that. How you'll attract business to YOUR market is an open question. I'm sure many players will set zero tax rates on their market transactions, just to encourage people to ship their resources there for trade purposes. A busy market promotes itself. I'm not convinced that markets will initially generate significant income for the owners, due to intensive competition.

 

Tbh, there will be hundreds of players trying to do exactly what you're planning. Those who can come up with truly innovative business plans are the ones who'll most likely succeed. So figure out something that will set you apart from the competition, and you're all set !

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I will just skill telling you all the reasons this would be wrong and let you in on some key huddles in your way.... everyone starts broke... this mean YOU have no money and the only way to get money is to sell to npcs(at first), so your going to have to mine. which means you're going to have to leave the "safe" zone.

 

Ya, NQ has said the "safe" zone will be 20km which seems like a big area... its not. Very far from it. there are 2500 people in the pre-alpha so lets use some math, 20km / 2500 people = .008km per person. how much ore will be in each "lot". And how many people will be coming on launch day? How many will have the same dreams as you?

 

So go ahead and stay in the starter zone, you will never be relevant.

 

I know I sound testy and I am a bit testy on this subject. PVP games aren't for everyone, and we must never stop using our heads.

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resources management and creative design don't really go well together. for shipyards I would love to see a system like starmade, where you can build a blueprint first and then get the materials later you can sort of build it in a ghost/instance and then make the blueprint and fill it up with the materials and then put that blueprint into a shipyard and it slowly builds it. I would love to see a system that lets us build something and then lets us know how much materials we need to make it. 

 

there would have to be balance tho, like you can kill the person while they are doing it or something, or it is only doable in safezones.. or.. or it is like a holodeck you enter on the main mothership spawn. I like the idea of there being big reasons to keep going back to the mothership, that we don't just leave and forget it and that could be a big draw 

 

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On 09/10/2017 at 3:44 AM, Captain_Thunderwalker said:

...

 

I know I sound testy and I am a bit testy on this subject. PVP games aren't for everyone, and we must never stop using our heads.

On the Kickstarter page of DU, NQ claims the following:

  • Emergent gameplay : economy, trade, territories, politics and warfare are all player-driven. Both PvP and non-PvP will be possible.

Are you saying that "non-PVP will be possible" is somewhat misleading ? ;)

 

Perhaps it should say: "...and extremely limited non-PVP will be possible" ? :unsure:

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On 9.10.2017 at 3:44 AM, Captain_Thunderwalker said:

here are 2500 people in the pre-alpha so lets use some math, 20km / 2500 people = .008km per person. how much ore will be in each "lot"

Math is not strong in this one

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On 10/9/2017 at 4:44 AM, Captain_Thunderwalker said:

Ya, NQ has said the "safe" zone will be 20km which seems like a big area... its not. Very far from it. there are 2500 people in the pre-alpha so lets use some math, 20km / 2500 people = .008km per person. how much ore will be in each "lot".

Depends how deep you can dig ;) I doubt that everyone will start mining right after launch. Someone will try to escape starting planet as fast as possible, someone will go deep into jungle, etc. On practice you won't see all those 2.5k players at the same time in safe zone. 

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Just now, Miamato said:

Depends how deep you can dig ;) I doubt that everyone will start mining right after launch. Someone will try to escape starting planet as fast as possible, someone will go deep into jungle, etc. On practice you won't see all those 2.5k players at the same time in safe zone. 

noone will escape alioth for at least some weeks - you need skills, materials and a ship

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2 minutes ago, Lethys said:

noone will escape alioth for at least some weeks - you need skills, materials and a ship

Probably, I haven't played the game yet, so maybe we'll be grinding for a long time until first ship is built, but I doubt that everyone will stick to safe zone. 

Everything depends on how much toxic people will be present on launch and how many of them will be trying to kill each other or camp safe zone borders

 

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1 hour ago, Miamato said:

Probably, I haven't played the game yet, so maybe we'll be grinding for a long time until first ship is built, but I doubt that everyone will stick to safe zone. 

Everything depends on how much toxic people will be present on launch and how many of them will be trying to kill each other or camp safe zone borders

 

well it wouldn't make much sense if everybody could just go into space from Hour 1

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48 minutes ago, Lethys said:

well it wouldn't make much sense if everybody could just go into space from Hour 1

I see no problem with it, in case players are limited to first solar system without skills. First of all this will decrease load on server and increase performance on client side. I doubt that player computers can handle few thousands crowd within small playfield/visible horizon. At least people should be able to reach closest moons/planets in 1-2 days at least, keeping in mind that they still won't have advanced ships. just minimal setup to make it possible. 

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On 10/8/2017 at 8:44 PM, Captain_Thunderwalker said:

NQ has said the "safe" zone will be 20km

20km radius which is 1,256 square km. So .5 square km per person. Anyways we don't know what the final safe zone size will be. A lot of what NQ says are ideas that can be changed for balance reasons.

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On 7/6/2017 at 7:05 PM, yamamushi said:

To the first point, you will not be able to construct your own safe zones, instead, they will be discoverable (and likely very valuable) throughout the galaxy. 

NQ did actually mention that it might be possible for players to create safe zones, so I wouldn't rule this one out entirely.

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Orgs will create their own "safe zones" in the form of cities with security. If you want in on it, you're gonna have to join up with one of them.

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23 minutes ago, Miamato said:

I see no problem with it, in case players are limited to first solar system without skills. First of all this will decrease load on server and increase performance on client side. I doubt that player computers can handle few thousands crowd within small playfield/visible horizon. At least people should be able to reach closest moons/planets in 1-2 days at least, keeping in mind that they still won't have advanced ships. just minimal setup to make it possible. 

that's not what NQ planned - jc mentioned this in some interview. It will take time until you get to space. It's an achievement. And they don't want players to spread out immediatly. Skills are in truth only there to hinder the movement of players - they want interaction/conflicts/emergent gameplay and no dead universe where everybody just gets off planat ASAP because they just can build a ship after 1h. Won't happen

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7 minutes ago, Vellnn said:

Orgs will create their own "safe zones" in the form of cities with security. If you want in on it, you're gonna have to join up with one of them.

But that safety would be just a kind of agreement within community as I understand, isn't it? So there won't be direct pvp restrictions, just possible player response for aggression acts.

1 minute ago, Lethys said:

that's not what NQ planned - jc mentioned this in some interview. It will take time until you get to space. It's an achievement. And they don't want players to spread out immediatly. Skills are in truth only there to hinder the movement of players - they want interaction/conflicts/emergent gameplay and no dead universe where everybody just gets off planat ASAP because they just can build a ship after 1h. Won't happen

Then only time can show how several thousands of players will start from single location on single planet. As I understand next Alpha and Beta stages should involve more people, so probably we will get more information how this approach works with initial design. 

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21 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

NQ did actually mention that it might be possible for players to create safe zones, so I wouldn't rule this one out entirely.

if you are referring to tokens: that idea was abandoned some time ago iirc

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On 7.7.2017 at 1:05 AM, yamamushi said:

I could write pages about how the economy might work in DU, suffice to say that the wealth of the economy depends entirely on the number of people playing the game. The more people, the better. 

... this is the main key for a vital economy. The best model won't help if no one uses it.

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JC mentioned too that better materials will be found outside the safe zones to force people to leave the zones. No risk no fun. To build ships better materials were essential.

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3 hours ago, Miamato said:

But that safety would be just a kind of agreement within community as I understand, isn't it? So there won't be direct pvp restrictions, just possible player response for aggression acts.

That's how it works in EVE Online in Null Security space (player owned space), and it works out pretty well. Generally "neutral" people are treated with hostility, and the only people allowed in are the people who either own the area, or allies of the people who own the area.

 

Also from my understanding, if a TCU is placed, people will only be able to mess with things in the area if the owner of the area allows it using the permissions system. The only thing you would have to worry about, is another organization taking over the area and kicking you out.

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