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Copy Right Infringment

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A simple imprint on the ship preventing blueprinting it is great. It's simple and not over doing it. If someone wants to copy the design by building it by hand and selling it again so be it. That at least takes time and effort. But having people at a market sell blueprints and you buy one and duplicate them and sell them for 1 credit each or something silly just ruins any future of people wanting to be creative. 

 

I mean if you guys want to freedom then lets speak freedom. 99.999999999% of players should not be able to manufacture ships because well that does not seem realistic. They must spend years RL building shipyards lol.

 

Sometimes little things are needed to make it work out in the long run. 

Sorry for the bit of Ad Hominem in my last post.

But you know this isn't Space Engineer's "CTRL+B" and you just stole a ship design. You seem a bit confused at the whole:

 

...people at a market sell blueprints and you buy one and duplicate them and sell them for 1 credit each or something silly just ruins any future of people wanting to be creative. 

There are master blueprints and normal blueprints. You can't create a new blueprint from a normal one, and they can only be used a certain number of times (assumed to be changeable by the original creator). If you lose a Master Blueprint, you're screwed.

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Remember, pre-builts ship will have a huge factor: They're prebuilt. Direct exchange from money/items to a prebuilt ship. It's much more convenient.

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Sorry for the bit of Ad Hominem in my last post.

But you know this isn't Space Engineer's "CTRL+B" and you just stole a ship design. You seem a bit confused at the whole:

 

There are master blueprints and normal blueprints. You can't create a new blueprint from a normal one, and they can only be used a certain number of times (assumed to be changeable by the original creator). If you lose a Master Blueprint, you're screwed.

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Remember, pre-builts ship will have a huge factor: They're prebuilt. Direct exchange from money/items to a prebuilt ship. It's much more convenient.

Mate are you replying to me with useless info. We are talking about just building the ship and blueprinting it and selling it. 

 

Clearly they cost to build but making a fleet of ships and cool designs and 1000's of hours into the game is nothing.... If you like the damn ship to begin with you already bought it and built it. Now to blueprint it...

 

Limited Blueprint copies etc MEAN squat if you can build and blueprint it.

 

Think about it!

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If your ship is simple enough to reverse engineer it probably wasn't a great design to begin with.

 

Seller: Selling Blueprints! 1 Copy Only!

 

Buyer: Oh nice ship I will take 1!

 

Seller: Here you go!

 

Buyer: Time to take this to the shipyard!

 

Buyer: Woot I'm finished.

 

Buyer: Let's Make a master blueprint of this.

 

Buyer: Let's take the master blueprint and make tons of copies.

 

Buyer: Lets flood the market and sell these at 1 credit each

 

Seller: Why is everyone flying my ship when only one person bought it and I spent months perfecting it....

 

Seller: That is it I'm not making ships anymore waste my time and no gratification.

 

Seller: I'm Bored I quit the game.

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Mate are you replying to me with useless info. We are talking about just building the ship and blueprinting it and selling it. 

 

Clearly they cost to build but making a fleet of ships and cool designs and 1000's of hours into the game is nothing.... If you like the damn ship to begin with you already bought it and built it. Now to blueprint it...

 

Limited Blueprint copies etc MEAN squat if you can build and blueprint it.

 

Think about it!

What? Never in that squobble of sentences did I get a pin-ding of knowledge. Could you rephrase the squobble to a squabble?

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Seller: Selling Blueprints! 1 Copy Only!

 

Buyer: Oh nice ship I will take 1!

 

Seller: Here you go!

 

Buyer: Time to take this to the shipyard!

 

Buyer: Woot I'm finished.

 

Buyer: Let's Make a master blueprint of this.

 

Buyer: Let's take the master blueprint and make tons of copies.

 

Buyer: Lets flood the market and sell these at 1 credit each

 

Seller: Why is everyone flying my ship when only one person bought it and I spent months perfecting it....

 

Seller: That is it I'm not making ships anymore waste my time and no gratification.

 

Seller: I'm Bored I quit the game.

obviously you dont understand the purpose of a Master and a normal blueprint

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obviously you dont understand the purpose of a Master and a normal blueprint

Here I was worried Master Blue Print was the main blueprint created for the original design and then normal blueprints made from it. What is it then rather then coming off rude maybe enlighten me? 

 

Since my whole point had really nothing to do with the use of normal vs master blueprints. 

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Here I was worried Master Blue Print was the main blueprint created for the original design and then normal blueprints made from it. What is it then rather then coming off rude maybe enlighten me? 

 

Since my whole point had really nothing to do with the use of normal vs master blueprints. 

Master Blueprints can be copied infinite times AND build the construct infinite times, whilst normal blueprints cannot be copied AND cannot build the construct infinite times.

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Master Blueprints can be copied infinite times AND build the construct infinite times, whilst normal blueprints cannot be copied AND cannot build the construct infinite times.

So exactly how I expected. Just like my post was nothing to do with Master/Normal Blueprints was about the user BUILDING the ship with the blueprint they got one time USE and then creating their own blueprint of a built ship aka no copyright protection.

 

Thank you for confirming that with me though. 

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obviously you dont understand the purpose of a Master and a normal blueprint

I can't tell if you're trolling, or just really, really stupid

 

Anyone can just use the ship building tool to copy your ship. They don't need a master blueprint because from the game's perspective, they're "building it from scratch"

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So exactly how I expected. Just like my post was nothing to do with Master/Normal Blueprints was about the user BUILDING the ship with the blueprint they got one time USE and then creating their own blueprint of a built ship aka no copyright protection.

 

Thank you for confirming that with me though. 

Ohh! I get it what you mean now.

Like just destroying the core so you can dissociate the ship to a blueprint, replacing the core, and then getting a master copy.

That would suck. NQ plz nerf.

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i believe you cannot have any construct without a core. also im guessing blueprints will have an option of "allow editing" or "disable editing" so that people may not be even able to access the LUA without hacking the core or whatever

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Well damn this entire topic I think most people thinking you can just remove/replace the core but if not derp. This entire topic is silly haha. I mean if someone spend days designing the same ship then so be it.

 

Here I was under the impression the entire topic was about just doing that. 

 

Oh well haha.

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Well damn this entire topic I think most people thinking you can just remove/replace the core but if not derp. This entire topic is silly haha. I mean if someone spend days designing the same ship then so be it.

 

Here I was under the impression the entire topic was about just doing that. 

 

Oh well haha.

Even if NQ did allow you to remove/place the core, you'd still have to rewrite ALL the code. Which is like, the 70% of the reason you buy a ship. Premade scripts.

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Even if NQ did allow you to remove/place the core, you'd still have to rewrite ALL the code. Which is like, the 70% of the reason you buy a ship. Premade scripts.

except that copying a script's functionality is rly rly friggin easy

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I can't speak for everyone, but one of the most exciting things for me about DU is the ability to design and build ships.  I would assume this is a major interest to most folks wanting to play.  So how many people don't want to be bothered with building ships and would rather just purchase one?  Are we over estimating the demand for buyers and bootleggers?  Now a "ship" could be a little single seater fighter type or a massive transport behemoth or something completely bizarre. 

 

My uninformed 2 cents would be to see the master blueprint and regular blueprint as the simple elegant solution.  Ultimately we need to see how this all plays out in the alpha before suggesting too many changes.

 

As an in-game way to handle infringement, if you are worried about your amazing design getting bootlegged, you perhaps find an in-game way to advertise your creation as the original designer.  Perhaps you have unique feature or element to you ship.  You can let everyone know that you are the author of the amazing "Triple Power Foil".  Like in RL, copyright disputes are researched by looking at who had the design published first.  You can use advertising as a type of "first published".

 

Either way it goes, the alpha play will let us see exactly what happens and whether it is a significant issue or not.

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I'm just saying, from my perspective if I was a greedy ship producer who just wants to steal a good design and make a shitload of money, here's what I would do.

-Find someone with a good ship design, and buy a normal copy of the design from them.

-Build the ship once, and take a very detailed video of the ship.

-Go "design a ship" that just so happens to be exactly the same as the ship design you just bought a normal copy of.

-Now you have the master copy of a blueprint that is identical to the other guy's master copy, so you can cut him out of the loop, and he can't make any money because you have a supply chain, he doesn't, and you can undercut his price if he tries to sell his ship design because you can make copies just as easily as he can even though you didn't make it.

 

If there's no other system in place, the only thing the guy who originally made the ship can do ends up being "just blow up the guy who stole your ship" since that's probably the only way to get them to stop. But that won't work because he has money from stealing your ship, and you don't. The reason this doesn't happen in real life is because we have copyrights and patents; systems we can use to hold people accountable, where disputes are dealt with case by case.

 

Personally I think someone should make a patent organization that can charge a patent fee to register a client's design. It may not even need to be a separate organization, the larger ones could just do this in addition to the other things they do. They could handle disputes and deal out punishments to people who steal registered designs, which would at least make it harder for small time thieves to get away with it.

 

Doing something like this isn't infinitely enforceable, but I think that's ok. Pirates are going to steal designs, but that's what they do, they steal shit, it's their job. Organizations who are at war with each other are going to steal each other's ship designs, but that's ok, they're at war with each other; it would be the equivalent of Russia using spies to steal American stealth bomber designs.

 

TLDR: It's too easy for new players to get their designs stolen. I think that organizations should work out a patenting and copyright system, and charge fees to people wanting to register their designs with the system / make a patent or copyright infringement claim.

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I'm just saying, from my perspective if I was a greedy ship producer who just wants to steal a good design and make a shitload of money, here's what I would do.

 

-Find someone with a good ship design, and buy a normal copy of the design from them.

-Build the ship once, and take a very detailed video of the ship.

-Go "design a ship" that just so happens to be exactly the same as the ship design you just bought a normal copy of.

-Now you have the master copy of a blueprint that is identical to the other guy's master copy, so you can cut him out of the loop, and he can't make any money because you have a supply chain, he doesn't, and you can undercut his price if he tries to sell his ship design because you can make copies just as easily as he can even though you didn't make it.

 

If there's no other system in place, the only thing the guy who originally made the ship can do ends up being "just blow up the guy who stole your ship" since that's probably the only way to get them to stop. But that won't work because he has money from stealing your ship, and you don't. The reason this doesn't happen in real life is because we have copyrights and patents; systems we can use to hold people accountable, where disputes are dealt with case by case.

 

Personally I think someone should make a patent organization that can charge a patent fee to register a client's design. It may not even need to be a separate organization, the larger ones could just do this in addition to the other things they do. They could handle disputes and deal out punishments to people who steal registered designs, which would at least make it harder for small time thieves to get away with it.

 

Doing something like this isn't infinitely enforceable, but I think that's ok. Pirates are going to steal designs, but that's what they do, they steal shit, it's their job. Organizations who are at war with each other are going to steal each other's ship designs, but that's ok, they're at war with each other; it would be the equivalent of Russia using spies to steal American stealth bomber designs.

 

TLDR: It's too easy for new players to get their designs stolen. I think that organizations should work out a patenting and copyright system, and charge fees to people wanting to register their designs with the system / make a patent or copyright infringement claim.

You only have the outside and inside of the ship on that video, not the internals. So one can easily tell if it's a copy or the original.

 

The org running the market could do that. Depending on their willingness and combat prowess. This is a sandbox and as that it should all be handled by players.

 

If no-one wants to look into that matter then builders will start such am org if this should really get out of hand.

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If someone steals a design/blueprint, NQ should heavily enforce it. IMO to the point of an IP ban. The people who are championing for no NQ to do nothing about it, are the thieves themselves. Don't be jealous because someone builds a nice ship and charges for their time (completely justified) and you are too cheap to pay for it. Get good or get banned.

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Perhaps we should indeed specify on the "stealing" aspect.

 

How do we define "steal" (theft) in this case? Some physical blueprint object or simply copying the design, by hand perhaps? Both?

 

If the design isn't overly unique or exotic, it could even happen that at least by visual design, concepts could be created by multiple parties and look alike. Do we then expect NQ to jump to our side? What if some design was recreated by coincidence without the other party supposedly knowing the "original design" existed in the first place?

 

Of course as potential creator, I'm not fond of seeing my work being copied and sold under a different name and so on. But here, I consider this to be part of the game to some extend if we highlight emergent gameplay and player policing. Then, players should also deal with these conflicts. I'd also argue that corporate espionage may just be part of the game.

 

You have to (try to) protect what is vital to your organization, just like in reality, where companies have to protect their sensitive data, or they risk that far eastern competitors simply imitate the product or create an exact copy of some factory over there and "leech".

 

If it helps, if something gets heavily imitated or stolen and sold cheaper - you're still the original creator. Might have some economic damage there or, worst case, loss of a whole project before it picks up, but hey... you still did it. If people consider it that critical, create an in-game / player run authority or entity to deal with these disputes, perhaps - or use other pressure if you suspect IP theft and whatnot.

 

But that's just me...

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You could have a signature that determines which org it was designed by stored in the core. It would be weird to see a TIE fighter (built solely by the Empire) with a Rebellion signature. Since you cant view the scripts of a ship unless you have authorisation, the buyer would know that the Empire ship design with a Rebellion signature would not have the same scripts that the Empire version does (since in order to bootleg a ship you would need to destroy it's core, losing all the scripts and its signature). The signature could also have the name of the master blueprinter (since those are tied to your account rather than in inventory) to give more challenge to the forgery. 

 

Edit: In addition, the signature could also contain the date at which the master blueprint was made.

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On 6/20/2017 at 3:18 AM, Lethys said:

Blueprints are safe (and your work as in a stamp or something), as said several times by jc. You can't steal master BPs but you can copy them to sell it to ppl.

 

But you can't preventedit ppl from destroying your ship part by part and rebuilding it.

 

You can steal master blueprints. 

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