Shynras

DU was meant from the beginning to be EVE + Minecraft, so it makes sense for it to have that kind of economy system. The economy will find its new balance and the game will work better than before. I understand that in a way these limits can be annoying, but it's the price to pay to have the economy and the emergent gameplay running. Without specialization the economy simply doesn't work.
 
True, the problem aren't the changes themselves but the fact that there are a lot of features missing and players are left with very few choices

This is a mmorpg, so it makes sense for players to have a need for others to achieve things in the game, otherwise we would be playing a survival singleplayer which is not what DU wants to be, nor was ever marketed as such.
 
"Large organizations will have an advantage"... I've heard this so many times, and again it's a baseless claim. The economy has and will have producers of different sizes, from the solo player to the largest organization. An organization with 100 players may end up producing 100 different elements earning 100 mlns, the solo player will simply produce 1 element earning 1 mln, which makes sense since the reward/player ratio is the same. You don't have to produce everything to compete as a producer, nor you're alone against the large organizations since there'll be plenty of other solo players/small orgs participating in the economy, trading and supporting each other. 
 
Specialized roles and a working economy will benefit the game greatly, making it more likely for players to play the way they want, since now we start needing each other for production so we effectively pay people to produce elements for us, instead of building industries for self production. One day we'll see other parts of the game require more specialization and it won't be that easy for a miner to pilot a large cargo ship, nor it will be easy for a pilot to use a weapon: we'll need each other and be willing to pay them to do a specific job that we can't do. At that point we'll see new kinds of jobs rise naturally (bounty hunter, miner, hauler, ... ), which is part of what being a sandbox means. 
 
DU isn't just a building game for creators, NQ wants to create an actual society that in a way works as a self-sufficient ecosystem, and it relies around the equilibrium between all parts and entities that take part in it. This change is one of the first that goes in that direction. 

Yes it is easy, it may take a long time, be tedious, still remains an easy activity that only require you to follow the scanner and click a button. Open a dictionary and go look what "easy" means because you still don't get it

Yes it is easy, it may take a long time, be tedious, still remains an easy activity that only require you to follow the scanner and click a button. Open a dictionary and go look what "easy" means because you still don't get it

Hello Noveans, 
 
By now, some of you may be aware that unlucky number Market 15 has been stripped bare and left to create ugly memes for generations to come. We’re trying to look at this in good humour as, from the front, it appears to be an issue that was created when we moved the markets, making it editable by players. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist (though we know there are a few of you out there) to understand that the markets are not a community construction, and as such not intended to be handled by players on this level. The destruction of the build isn’t a quick fix, and was clearly done knowing it shouldn't be. 
 
An important aspect we are considering in all cases and investigations is intention. The intention behind this destruction is very clear to us. The players involved did not report this bug to us, but instead simply filled their pockets. Had this stopped with a single voxel removed it would be a different story.  This is, at its core, a violation of the EULA and against the intentions of beta. We have been as understanding as we can until this point, but there must be a line.
 
Let us be clear, we will not tolerate this kind of behaviour during any phase of the development of Dual Universe.
 
The players responsible for the destruction of the market have been permanently banned from Dual Universe, and all salvaged materials and assets gained will be removed without compensation.
 
Sincerely,
The Novaquark Team
 
Follow up statement: 
 

Personally i dont want resources or even holes in the ground to regenerate. It's all part of the story players will create. Keep in mind though that resources will be rare and common ones. As they already said the common ones will be very abundant and hard to dig completely on a planet. People will mine mostly specific holes for rare resources. Still it all depends on how resources are going to be spread over the planet, i dont think a planet will be uglified because of its size, but in that case will still be players fault, and part of the story.
Trees do not regenerate, but you'll be able to plant them probably in an expansion (jc said in a interview)

As you may know:
 
 
In short, the economy start with 0 credits. NPCs at the start of the game will give us credits for raw materials, up to a certain point, where those NPCs will be removed. Then there'll be a limited amount of credits, that will make the economy. 
 
Doubts:
 
- After some time, some people may stop playing, abandoning a character with credits in it. 
- Some people may accumulate a huge amount of credits, without spending them. In that case the economy run with much less credits. If credits are more rare, prices for stuff are lower, and at a certain point, those rich guys may use all their credits buy all the stuff they can, at a lower price than usual. At that point there'll be again a large influx of credits in the economy, that will rise the prices up again, so those people will make profit out of this phenomenon. Sorry if I couldn't explain this better, but my english is limited.
-Adding again NPCs in the future (or even at the beginning), is something that comes from the devs. I feel is too much of an intrusion in a game made by players. It defines the economy too much.
 
The first problem regard the natural loss of credits over time: a guy that stops playing, another that changes account, or wathever. This may be fixed by adding again NPCs temporarily to resupply credits up to the original amount.
The second is a problem caused by the static amount of credits in game, and the one-off random resupply, decided by devs. 
The third pretty much explain itself. 
 
In other games we usually have NPCs, that create credits, what are called gold-sinks, to remove them. This usually mantains a stable economy, if done properly. It is artificially balanced. 
In a game like DU ofc this can't work, since there are not even NPCs that gives quests or something like that. The devs idea may be a solution, but a little basic and with problems imho. So what's the solution?
 
Create a rare resource that we can craft credits with. Example:
 
-Gold is a rare resource. You can craft, with a recipe, an X amount of credits with a single ingot. 
-Gold is a resource needed to craft a fundamental element, like the construct cores. It will always be important and have a value in game.
-The price to buy an ingot of gold from other players will never be less than X credits, but higher, simply because you can just craft yourself X credits from an ingot. Let's say an ingot is worth Y credits. Y > X always. 
-This kills inflation. When there's a ton of credits in the economy, the price of all resources go up naturally, gold included. This means that is not convenient for people to craft credits with the recipe, because they would get only X amount of credits, that is a lot less than Y, so a fewer people will "create" credits, letting the natural loss of credits reduce the inflation naturally.  Viceversa, if there's not enough currency in the system, Y is a lot closer to X, so people are more incentivized by using the recipe, and new crafted credits will flow into the economy. Wait, there's something wierd....If Y>X always, why would someone ever think about using the recipe to craft credits? Because of two reasons: Trade fees and wait time: If you sell stuff, you're probably using a market element, maybe in a city, maybe in a station, and you'll have to pay taxes on your trades to the owner. When the difference between X and Y is small enough, crafting credits is more convenient than selling gold.  "Wait time" instead is referred to you having to wait for a buyer, instead of having credits instantly by crafting them; consider that with high inflation there are more buyers (more money in circle, people are more incentivized on buying stuff despite mining/crafting by their own), so the wait time is smaller, so isn't a problem and you would sell gold instead of crafting credits, while with low inflation, you may have to wait quite a bit to find a buyer, because there is less currency in the economy than normal, so you're more incentivized to craft credits. Everything works perfectly and balance itself naturally. Sorry if it's a bit confused, I hope you understood.
-No need for NPCs, no need to balance the economy artificially, by force, adding or removing credits. 
-If someone accumulates a huge amount of credits over time, the economy is not going to be affected, so that people can't play with the economy, creating instability. Not that easily at least.
-People are not going to be chained to the arkship forever, where the NPCs are. You can craft credits anywhere supposed you have the gold.
-Incentivize mining, pirating, and stuff like that. Gold has a value just because you can make credits out of it, and every other resources will have a balanced price relative to the gold rarity, and their usefulness. 
-The fixed amount of credits in game depends on the amount of active players, that defines the amount of trades. With the system I propose, this gets automatically balanced. Because less/more players means less/more mining, other than less/more trades. So credits will always be proportional to the amount of trades, and the amount of players.
-Credits resupply/removal needs to be applied gradually, constantly over time, not by a one-time temporary reintroduction of NPCs. The economy is stable, you don't see large influx of credits over a certain period of time. Prices are more stable.
- And more
 
EDIT: If the natural loss of currency throught loss of accounts, isn't enough to balance the amount of credits crafted by gold, in other words, the inflation, forging back gold from credits is a solution. You'd loose something throught the crafting process (you would get only 80% gold back, or you'd consume energy to craft or a third material required by the recipe) to balance the continuous switch gold to credits to gold, that players could abuse to transport gold without worrying about mass.
 
 
What do you think? 

As you may know:
 
 
In short, the economy start with 0 credits. NPCs at the start of the game will give us credits for raw materials, up to a certain point, where those NPCs will be removed. Then there'll be a limited amount of credits, that will make the economy. 
 
Doubts:
 
- After some time, some people may stop playing, abandoning a character with credits in it. 
- Some people may accumulate a huge amount of credits, without spending them. In that case the economy run with much less credits. If credits are more rare, prices for stuff are lower, and at a certain point, those rich guys may use all their credits buy all the stuff they can, at a lower price than usual. At that point there'll be again a large influx of credits in the economy, that will rise the prices up again, so those people will make profit out of this phenomenon. Sorry if I couldn't explain this better, but my english is limited.
-Adding again NPCs in the future (or even at the beginning), is something that comes from the devs. I feel is too much of an intrusion in a game made by players. It defines the economy too much.
 
The first problem regard the natural loss of credits over time: a guy that stops playing, another that changes account, or wathever. This may be fixed by adding again NPCs temporarily to resupply credits up to the original amount.
The second is a problem caused by the static amount of credits in game, and the one-off random resupply, decided by devs. 
The third pretty much explain itself. 
 
In other games we usually have NPCs, that create credits, what are called gold-sinks, to remove them. This usually mantains a stable economy, if done properly. It is artificially balanced. 
In a game like DU ofc this can't work, since there are not even NPCs that gives quests or something like that. The devs idea may be a solution, but a little basic and with problems imho. So what's the solution?
 
Create a rare resource that we can craft credits with. Example:
 
-Gold is a rare resource. You can craft, with a recipe, an X amount of credits with a single ingot. 
-Gold is a resource needed to craft a fundamental element, like the construct cores. It will always be important and have a value in game.
-The price to buy an ingot of gold from other players will never be less than X credits, but higher, simply because you can just craft yourself X credits from an ingot. Let's say an ingot is worth Y credits. Y > X always. 
-This kills inflation. When there's a ton of credits in the economy, the price of all resources go up naturally, gold included. This means that is not convenient for people to craft credits with the recipe, because they would get only X amount of credits, that is a lot less than Y, so a fewer people will "create" credits, letting the natural loss of credits reduce the inflation naturally.  Viceversa, if there's not enough currency in the system, Y is a lot closer to X, so people are more incentivized by using the recipe, and new crafted credits will flow into the economy. Wait, there's something wierd....If Y>X always, why would someone ever think about using the recipe to craft credits? Because of two reasons: Trade fees and wait time: If you sell stuff, you're probably using a market element, maybe in a city, maybe in a station, and you'll have to pay taxes on your trades to the owner. When the difference between X and Y is small enough, crafting credits is more convenient than selling gold.  "Wait time" instead is referred to you having to wait for a buyer, instead of having credits instantly by crafting them; consider that with high inflation there are more buyers (more money in circle, people are more incentivized on buying stuff despite mining/crafting by their own), so the wait time is smaller, so isn't a problem and you would sell gold instead of crafting credits, while with low inflation, you may have to wait quite a bit to find a buyer, because there is less currency in the economy than normal, so you're more incentivized to craft credits. Everything works perfectly and balance itself naturally. Sorry if it's a bit confused, I hope you understood.
-No need for NPCs, no need to balance the economy artificially, by force, adding or removing credits. 
-If someone accumulates a huge amount of credits over time, the economy is not going to be affected, so that people can't play with the economy, creating instability. Not that easily at least.
-People are not going to be chained to the arkship forever, where the NPCs are. You can craft credits anywhere supposed you have the gold.
-Incentivize mining, pirating, and stuff like that. Gold has a value just because you can make credits out of it, and every other resources will have a balanced price relative to the gold rarity, and their usefulness. 
-The fixed amount of credits in game depends on the amount of active players, that defines the amount of trades. With the system I propose, this gets automatically balanced. Because less/more players means less/more mining, other than less/more trades. So credits will always be proportional to the amount of trades, and the amount of players.
-Credits resupply/removal needs to be applied gradually, constantly over time, not by a one-time temporary reintroduction of NPCs. The economy is stable, you don't see large influx of credits over a certain period of time. Prices are more stable.
- And more
 
EDIT: If the natural loss of currency throught loss of accounts, isn't enough to balance the amount of credits crafted by gold, in other words, the inflation, forging back gold from credits is a solution. You'd loose something throught the crafting process (you would get only 80% gold back, or you'd consume energy to craft or a third material required by the recipe) to balance the continuous switch gold to credits to gold, that players could abuse to transport gold without worrying about mass.
 
 
What do you think? 

Actually PVP is probably the most important feature in the game. It gives people a reason to build bases and ships, to group together, to conquer land, to explore and compete for resources, to create contracts and much more. It's also the only reason the economy can work: ships and bases will get destroyed, there'll always be jobs for miners, crafters, designers and tons of other people because of that alone. 
 
Regtarding OP: there'll be megastructures and reasons to build those. Ships are physical objects always present in the game, there'll be huge stations/markets/hangars and so on to store them. Also items and materials need a lot of space, because you need to store them inside huge containers when in large quantities. Of course only bigger groups with tons of stuff and ships will need to build those.

That is just not going to happen. Ads and all the stuff you mentioned ruin the game and it's not even going to be enough to mantain their expenses. Also F2p means cheaters and bots. F2p always means lower quality compared to a p2p counterpart. Du is P2P.
 
Now to quote your 4th point "4 A modification to the monthly subscription model. A way to get income from those who can’t handle the monthly subscription."
You can, just grind more and buy yourself a DAC from other players. 
 

Yes there'll be day/night cycle, they want to make planets rotate around their axis. You should be able to see stars from the skybox and planets/sun in the same solar system, according to the videos we have

That is just not going to happen. Ads and all the stuff you mentioned ruin the game and it's not even going to be enough to mantain their expenses. Also F2p means cheaters and bots. F2p always means lower quality compared to a p2p counterpart. Du is P2P.
 
Now to quote your 4th point "4 A modification to the monthly subscription model. A way to get income from those who can’t handle the monthly subscription."
You can, just grind more and buy yourself a DAC from other players. 
 

That is just not going to happen. Ads and all the stuff you mentioned ruin the game and it's not even going to be enough to mantain their expenses. Also F2p means cheaters and bots. F2p always means lower quality compared to a p2p counterpart. Du is P2P.
 
Now to quote your 4th point "4 A modification to the monthly subscription model. A way to get income from those who can’t handle the monthly subscription."
You can, just grind more and buy yourself a DAC from other players. 
 

Well I guess we are essentially in agreement then

Yes, but I wasn't referring to that when I said "right amount", my bad i didn't explain myself well enough. Even if, as you said 1$ or 100$ don't matter because the value is the same, making it so that 1 copper ore is worth 1.500.000 isn't a great idea, because numbers in the game would be huge to a point that they'll be actually hard to read. While if there's shortage of quanta, and on average each player has 5 quanta each (and you can't subdivide), the economy wouldn't even work. Ofc there's not a single "right amount" as you said, but not the entire spectrum is good either. What I meant is that NQ will likely choose the right amount in the good portion of the spectrum, and then control the inflation/deflation relative to that value. 

Taxes exponentially growing the more land you own is a good choice for the safezone (not for pvp zones though). Still, it can be abused by giving ownerships to alts or friends to reduce the exponential increment, so they need to find a solution for that.  

Or... just let everybody choose for themselves?

Would be cool to have a tool when building to measure the distance between voxels, so that is easier to create spheres, circles or other curves. At the same time is very useful just to measure the lenght of your ship, wings and other parts, so that we don't have to count the voxel manually (and lose count inevitably 10 times before getting it right).

Would be cool to have a tool when building to measure the distance between voxels, so that is easier to create spheres, circles or other curves. At the same time is very useful just to measure the lenght of your ship, wings and other parts, so that we don't have to count the voxel manually (and lose count inevitably 10 times before getting it right).

Would be cool to have a tool when building to measure the distance between voxels, so that is easier to create spheres, circles or other curves. At the same time is very useful just to measure the lenght of your ship, wings and other parts, so that we don't have to count the voxel manually (and lose count inevitably 10 times before getting it right).

Would be cool to have a tool when building to measure the distance between voxels, so that is easier to create spheres, circles or other curves. At the same time is very useful just to measure the lenght of your ship, wings and other parts, so that we don't have to count the voxel manually (and lose count inevitably 10 times before getting it right).

Would be cool to have a tool when building to measure the distance between voxels, so that is easier to create spheres, circles or other curves. At the same time is very useful just to measure the lenght of your ship, wings and other parts, so that we don't have to count the voxel manually (and lose count inevitably 10 times before getting it right).

Or... just let everybody choose for themselves?

What a few weeks it has been!
 
Here's a few updates from the Syndicate:
We're happy to welcome the Golden Fox Division and Me'sen Gotabor Starship Engineers as new Member Organizations! Cinderfall has also continued its broadcasts of Cinderfall TV, and just recently has signed the Obsidio Accords in an effort to further promote a cooperative and unified gaming community.
 
As always, the door is open to new faces and organizations who wish to be a part of the Syndicate!
 
Cheers,
Astro