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Ater Omen

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Posts posted by Ater Omen

    Disappointed with Container Optimization Skill

    in General Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Ater Omen

    1 hour ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

    Imagine how stupid this is: I would now have to completely dismantle the ship in order to "put down" the elements again. And most of them are enclosed in voxels or painstakingly aligned - a process which took a lot of time in my case. 

    You can remove the element and hit backspace to undo, this will apply current talents.

     

    @Haunty I tested everything, it is apparently working.

    containers:

    Spoiler

     

     

     

     

     

    fuel tanks:

    Spoiler

     

     

    “Marketplace Heist” Response

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    Quote

    Entering Build mode on a NPC structure
    Beeing able to enter build mode on a NPC structure

    Catch the difference between this two sentences and understand why dismantling a market is an exploit (if you know what is a bug leading to an exploit in the first place). You will know the difference between intended and unintended game design. If you can't make that difference and accept it (or don't want) because you're angry about the current context of the game (past RDMS thiefs, ticketing, etc), take a step back. You're not a goat bleating for everything you encounter.


    I went to that market and pressed B too and succesfully entered build mode, I did nothing more. Why am I not banned? 

    “Marketplace Heist” Response

    in General Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Ater Omen
    typo

    @blazemonger Yes, I had eyes wide open when learning that orders have been deleted with the markets hubs, less with the RDMS issue. This should not happen, Aphelia is not a player like another, but we're not aware of how their system is made and there might be legitimate reasons behind this (I really hope so). This is still very concerning.
     

    3 hours ago, blazemonger said:

    NQ playing the victim here and trying their bad implementation and potential technical fallout on these guys is IMO extremely weak and uncalled for.

    Saying this:

     

    Spoiler

    The destruction of the build isn’t a quick fix, and was clearly done knowing it shouldn't be.


    Is really just trying very hard to justify your knee jerk reaction. Restoring the market _SHOULD_ be a quick fix. It should be a case of pasting back a market construct and restoring the links to the database in the backend. The removal of the construct should not have any impact on the player base and their possible buy/sell orders or items they had in the market containers (which seem to be entirely virtual anyway).

    Trying to imply that he players deliberately destroyed the market knowing that NQ would have a tough time replacing it and for that very reason (which is what this quote basically says IMO) is at best unprofessional and shows a total lack of ownership by trying to make it all the player's fault. Sorry NQ, but you made a royal booboo here yourself as far as I see it.

    I agree that NQ can't know what the players thought during the heist and this assumption is very ballzy. I don't know about how it happened in the players heads, we all saw the "pls no ban", did they realize it too late? At best, they did a big mistake, and got spanked hard by NQ. Was it too hard?

    Appart from the time it took to replace the market, this issue could have been avoided and dev would have spend more time to fix other problems, the game has many problems right now that we're complaining daily and this heist just added more shit to the pile.
     

    Spoiler

    Maybe they are playing the current PoE league and they forgot which game they were playing ?

     

    “Marketplace Heist” Response

    in General Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Ater Omen

    @Elrood So what should NQ do? continue to not punish players for current exploits because they did nothing for past cases? I'm sure it's not what you want. Should they make a soft transition for their rules enforcement to not shock players?
    We complain when they do nothing, we complain when they act, all of this while we don't even know what happen behind the scenes, what's their powers and what they can really act on. I wish they could act on everything like omnicient gods, but I don't think it's the case. The salt comes from the permaban which, as I said, is too much imo especially in the context you mentionned.

    “Marketplace Heist” Response

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    While I find the heist inacceptable, I am shocked by the decision of permaban, a temporary ban (even long) would be better imo. Maybe this has been done to send a message to players for future abuses...

     

    49 minutes ago, Scoopy said:

    Scoopy here (guy who was ban hammered)

     

    We knew we probably were gonna get in trouble after our heist. I didn't think it would be a permanent ban especially due to:

    Spoiler

    Theft Via RDMS: RDMS permissions and settings are the sole discretion of each player. We advise you take the time to get to know and understand the system and be cautious when making a construct or element usable by unknown players, including the use of your friends list. Not every player has your best interest at heart. We can not get involved with permission based theft, whether as an individual or an organization. We encourage you to review your friends list each time you add or remove someone and ensure your construct permissions are set accordingly. The context menu options that set public access currently do not have a confirmation prompt, be careful as setting public access to said construct will allow every player in Dual Universe to go into build mode and remove/place elements and voxels. [Allowed]

     

    on top of this, I did report this! :) see another reply below (the attached image broke)

    report.PNG

    You know markets are not player structures and this rule does not apply here, common sense should have stopped you from stealing anything.

     

    Industry changes which may possibly come (and TW as well)

    in General Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Ater Omen

    2 hours ago, blazemonger said:


     

    Spoiler

     

    While I do not disagree, the problem in the situation NQ has put themselves in this means that the top players/orgs actually will not or hardly be impacted by balance changes while it becomes increasingly harder for new players/orgs to get to the same level. 

     

    NQ has pretty much already allowed a power structure to be set up where the big orgs are near untouchable and will in any situation have a massive and OP advantage over the smaller orgs and new players. And no, arguing that new players should then just join these large existing orgs is not a viable option as it will only create a stringer monopolistic situation

     

    NQ IMO made massive mistake by pretty much quietly dropping the partial wipe for the new planet biomes to come in. As I see it they got cold feet regarding the possible fallout from large orgs losing their foothold as doling so would mean territory claims needed to be redone and a second goldrush would happen for the best spots. So once more they sacrificed the quality of the game to appease the existing player base at a time (during beta) where such changes _must_ be expected and accepted.

     

    By doing so they also disadvantaged those who choose to start slow, buil temporary facilities waiting for the wipe to then start "for real". In other words, a massive false start.

     

    Now NQ is starting to hint that they feel they do not see the direction the game is taking (due to the lack of viable alternatives IMO) of everyone building massive industry for themselves and so they plan to make industry _much_ harder to get into and maintain. What this will do is it will benefit the large orgs once more as they already have the mans and resources to make the changes with little or no effort. Again, not wiping here will just instantly put these larger orgs further ahead.

     

    The changes made to industry already, in order to try and keep the backend from consistently falling over, already have greatly impacted "the little guy" and to top it off, it really does nothing but obscure the problems on the backend, it does not solve anything. But NQ is really good at hiding the symptoms and then calling it a fix with regards to the cause, meanwhile the actual issue s are brewing below the surface and _will_ eventually erupt and we can only hope NQ get to clearing the massive technical debt they have already built up before that happens.

     

    Do I know any of this is fact? No, I clearly do not but there are very distinct patterns here both within NQ and when compared to similar processes/projects, that lead me to believe I am not far off in my assumption here. NQ is on a path of rushing development and progress and that is never a good basis on which to build a solid foundation.

     

    hjdxD7q.jpg

     

     

     

    Again, I honestly do not see how NQ can avoid a full wipe (with at best normal blueprints kept and talent points accrued put back in the pool for existing players) at least prior to "official launch" and likely before that. I think NQ is seriously afraid that admitting this may lead to players leaving (and thus loss of badly needed revenue) to maybe return after said wipe but I honestly think the opposite would happen. Players would start experimenting and "playing around" more, trying out new things and thus giving NQ valuable data on the game and how to make it better.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So, if NQ find the right fixes and decide to wipe to reset orgs powers, how can they be sure that the new system will work? Do they need to wipe when necessary ("necessary" beeing hard to estimate) until they find the right system?  How can they really know the system will du it, when at each new feature or important change they might break big parts of the game?

    The server is still young, and ftm a wipe could work, with player base losses nonetheless (too many to recover?), but in the long run is it a healthy behavior ?

    edit: I wanted a wipe when we could sell t5 ores to bots, during pre-beta. We would have lost about 1 week, and there was only alpha players, so no big losses would have happened

    Industry changes which may possibly come (and TW as well)

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, ZeeckZero said:

    Yea im sorry, you have probably lost me

    im not sure what capturing 500 hexes and the cost of that has to do with game balancing being centered around large orgs or single players

    im probably misunderstanding the point you are making 

    Yea sorry, I was speaking about the current rules to limit the power of an organization mentionned by @Maxnano. What is interesting is that even if an org mined all the T1 of Alioth and sold everything to bots, it could pay for only about 700 territorys. Alioth has more than 250k territorys and other planets have an average of 40k territorys.

    Industry changes which may possibly come (and TW as well)

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    More and more items are not worth to produce anymore on Alioth, you can make more money by selling the raw ores directly. There is not enough demand for the moment. Why? imo:

    - the game is still young, there is not enough players to buy what industrialists produce and T1 ore is abundant. Will there be enough players to consume all that ore later?

    - there is not enough destruction, the pvp is not fully developped, technically and socially. There is no big entitys, alliances, and no wars afaik. 

    - about destruction itself: elements cannot be destroyed, pvp only make elements transit from a player to another. This seams to be the main problem, but we must remember that we are in a finite world. If NQ makes elements destructible, is it really good in the long run? Will they gives us fresh new ores to mine and rebuild what we want? (new systems, asteroids belts, etc) 

     

    For the industries, I don't like the fact that when we can build basic T1 elements like engine S, we can in fact build everything. Once we set up a basic industry (10x each machine), we're good to go and can build every items in the game with no constraints except the required ore of course. There is no technological research, we can build everything everywhere with any character, the ore spread is not a sufficient barrier.

    Another thing is that it's too easy to build large ships, all piloting elements require only T1 ores even at the biggest size, with the exception of the T2 for the space fuel. All other ores are for non mandatory elements (hub, res node, surrogates, decorative elements, etc).

     

    1 hour ago, Maxnano said:

    Lastly, dont look at what the large corps are doing. that isnt typical player behaviour and its almost impossible to ballance a game around that. organisation and division of labour will always win. without imposing artifical limits on territory and resources you cant limit them.

    Game designers have to look at what the top players are doing, they must know what happen when the game is pushed to the limits. I don't know how they could balance a game by looking at average joes.

    PvP is Broken aka Pay to Win

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    The only reason I find for them to do that is to take into account people interested in DU but waiting the release or a better state of the game. Otherwise, yea it seams very lazy at least.

    I just hope they don't get infuenced too much by the top players votes which could not necessarily be the thing to do at the moment.

    The Point of Designing a Cool Ship?

    in General Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Ater Omen

    8 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

    The problem comes where there is only a single, limited  meta... There are infinitely more ways of building a "nice" or just even a "proper," real-world-physics-complient ship than there are of exploiting the game's physics engine's obvious naïveté, so in the end there are droves of similar, functionally "efficient" but physically "questionable" flying around like the identically kitted FDLs of old on the ED open server. 

    And make no mistake, these cubes ARE exploits to some extent... floating elements and multiple layers of non-contiguous armour, just like using 3rd person camera as a magic view through 4m of solid gold and .. creating flying boxes that somehow work in atmosphere despite having occluded elements _is_ an exploit, and arguably, using the game in ways it was not intended is a bannable offence ?

    Also, that last sentence comes across as preachy or even (imo) risible given that nobody (not even JC) knows what the shape or even size of that finial "world" will be.
    Heck, JC's future decisions may even ignore these exploits and make the game entirely unsuitable for pure PVE/builders, leaving the PvP cubes wandering aimlessly around pinging other cubes in an ironic return to 80s style space video games... but more importantly, unable to find any seals to club and sate their IRL inadequacies.

    Something that is not realistic doesn't mean that is an exploit, or we would play a full simulation (or at least as best as it can be) and not the current game.

    edit: I agree that atmo lift and obstruction physics is a joke, and an update on that is welcome.

     

    How do you define an exploit? Here is my definition:

     

    The Point of Designing a Cool Ship?

    in General Discussions

    Posted

    NQ can't ignore the builders player base, I think there will always be a safe zone somewhere. Where and how big? The current safe zone is fine to me, it has every ores so builders can build everything in the game (untill everything gets mined out).

     

    On 10/2/2020 at 10:34 PM, Frigidman said:

    This is about building, or more specifically, spending the time to build things above and beyond the most basic flying brick needed to do pvp or travel through pvp.

     

    There is zero skill involved in making a deathcube.

    The current game mechanics leads to the current pvp meta, the deathcube seams to be the most efficient fighter. You define skill involved for it as "zero", when omitting all the process players went through before starting the construction. Building the perfect XS fighter doesn't happen in a day, there are a lot of things to consider like the proportion of engines, weapons, voxel used, etc. All of this is affecting the ship capabilities and when the goal is to build the most efficient XS fighter, you have to test a lot of things before coming to the solution.

     

    You place the skill at "building a nice ship", where some other players place it at "building the most efficient ship". There is no "right way" of building a ship, it's only subjective to you, it's about what you want to do with it. But you have to concider the game rules for what you want to do, a beautiful ship will win the first price at the Alioth Aerospace Expo, but outside the safe zone the rules are clear, prepare to die in your lamborghini killed by people flying in a dumpster.

     

    Play in the world you want to be in, and accept what happen if you step outside of it.

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