ShioriStein

I, a damn pirate, had to build a industry line to offer res nodes at 150000 because without me the price would be 1M.
Thats the player economy working for you. Pirates selling res nodes.. 

From the logic of it: I would assume a ship the size of the ark ship traveling 10000 years with hundreds of thousands of souls inside would not send a person to the open world without having some kind of basic economy.
 
And again, that's not what NQ wants. And im just warning them of what's happening.
And I will not stop providing feedback to NQ about the state of things from the player perspective. I'm sorry if my feedback disturbed you...

Already answered:
 
 
Nope, you do not start from Stone Age on RL, there is an already working economy around you in RL.
 
Also, NQ wants us to have the choice. That choice is not present right now. And I'm warning NQ about it.

1st watch your language.

2nd the testing of the game did not start 2 days ago, only beta did.
The problem I am presenting is real, his happening and you have not shown any reason why time would fix it.
In my experience the disadvantage non industrialist players and orgs are facing right now will only get bigger with time.

I have opposite view. Less intervention from NQ on the game market is better for long term play. Right now, after wipe, most of potential suppliers are focused on rebuilding their factories and chaines of supplies. So those who don't want to build their own factories, can only wait (or build them ofc). Be patient. Bots are simple but very lazy solution and we shouldn't ask for lazy solutions.

Well hi.... May the glory to Helghan Empire.

Well this doesn't look like it is out of context (in bold first quote), as the entire thread is about "finite currency".  So the part I underlined (2nd quote) is either completely irrelevant to the thread or you really don't know how eve economics work. Your previous 2 posts made me think you did, but then you quoted me saying "players can earn other ways". The money has to come from a source and that would be a faucet, which as of right now,  even with the recent podcasts, mainly ore buy orders and possibly npc missions. This sounds like an environment that people who plays the market in Eve can abuse in the deflationary environment to the detriment of the player base and I concur with you abusing it, as I will too. This is what I was referring to with the "fear of finite currency over infinite" as the only people that makes this argument comes from theme park mmo's (which I think you would agree). So I think you might have misunderstood my initial reply out of context when you were quoting me. As I think the the only source of injecting cash into the game via ore buy orders is ludicrous if not retarded to put it bluntly. 
 
Also you were responding to me and yes they said only ore buy orders at the time for a faucet. People aren't going to trade currency if it is hard to come by and the same people on this thread that are complaining about infinite currency, are also going to be the same people complaining about having to mine a freighters worth of gold for 10 Quanta bucks. The previous owner of those 10 Quanta bucks is also going to be the trader that is just flipping all the goods and making that currency easy, if not just use the Nova bucks to buy it.
 
As for the guy you referenced and depending on the time frame, it came from either mission runners or bounties. Him getting isk for plex/gtc's is just transferring isk from one player to another and you are correct, it was abuse-able until CCP cocked it up by making everything plex. So now you can see everything in a chart and easily tell if there was/is price manipulation. But with that mothership he can make more in comparison to other activities if he wasn't retarded. It was until the Oct or Nov that the bounty faucet was axed by CCP.
 
 
No, it would never be good on paper as you want inflation so people keeps spending money, as DeviseDevine said it leads to hoarding. The point of currency is that it is a fiat a medium for the exchange of goods/services and if it rarer then the gold or copper, then what is the point of having the currency. In my opinion, I think what everyone misunderstands, is that theme park mmo's it really is irrelevant if you have run away inflation. Every real economy has inflation, but they keep it capped at a certain % and I am sure someone who is much better at economics can explain that as I am no market guru. I am just now finally mastering market pvp, which sadly this game is already snuffing out.   
I don't think a lot of the points are worth merit, as it looks like one person before I first posted actually has an idea of how insane it is that the studio is solely relying on "npc buy orders". I believe that in game economics is semi complex as the real economy does require a lot of learning in my opinion.  If you know how to read the Eve Economic report you can actually get a detailed blue print on top of the Eve wiki of how they jump started their economy post launch. 
 
I don't think they are going to stick to closely to lore unless they want to have their "civ building game" to fail.  As for lore items, I would think that it would provide old tech or cool trinkets that one can sell on the market. It would create n new occupation called "Archaeological theft".
Giving players free quanta is not going to be game breaking, as the game requires a sub and I honestly believe if you are going to spend money, it is going to be with their "Nova bucks". As for exploits/abuse it is always going to happen, but the difference is that they aren't taking the "alpha clone" route. Coming back to Eve now it is almost day/night how things are both positive and negative (more on the latter imo). 
 
As for making quanta more difficult I can guarantee you that players won't try and game the system, it is going to happen even if Quanta took only 30 secs of effort. It will only kill the game like other pvp sand box mmo's as people won't be able to replace their losses. If you make the game more difficult to get Quanta, then those same people are going to have to grind more to get the currency to purchase whatever goods/services they want. The chances of them getting that quanta gets closer to impossible when people would rarely spend it as they expect the money to appreciate in value. Why would I spend 1 quanta for 100 ore blocks when I can get maybe 150 if I wait a little longer? Well it is going to suck for that person who can't afford "nova bucks" when it takes 1 hour to mine 20 units of ore.
 
I am going to add this video link so everyone at least gets on the same page before adding to this thread. 

Maybe someone already suggested, but I think it will be interesting if you add the ability to create animals, aliens and prescribe scenarios of interaction with them.

Let players decide...
Dual Universe is about having mechanics that gives players the say on how they want to have the universe to work (at least their small part of it). This player agency is what makes is sandbox game so appealing.
 
The idea
If a single organization (including subsidiaries) can claim percentage of a planet or moon (say 75+% as example) that organization is marked as owning the planet on the planetary map AND that organization gets special rights to create some game changing laws for the planets surrounding space (an example could be switching direct PvP on or off for others or everyone)

Taking it one step further, if a majority of the planets in a system are claimed by the same organization (or subsidiaries), the same can be done for the system as a whole: the system is marked as belonging to that organization and the organization can set system-wide rules.
 
Which rules can can be created are left to NQ to decide, though switching on/off PvP in controlled space could be a big one.
 
Summary
Allow players to choose what “settings” they want on a planet/system they have a majority claim on. It gives a concrete mechanical goal that players could work towards to really make the game their own and territory warfare is meaningful.

Planets (ignoring the wide variety of planets that exist between each other), and outer space are very different environments (though airless worlds are quite similar) and likely will support different styles of gameplay and engineering. However, it might be possible or even desirable that balancing is tilted towards a certain operational environment. Let's look at our universe and physics to analyze certain characteristics and see how that would translate over into gameplay. 
 
It is generally accepted to my knowledge that despite the large costs of proper space-based infrastructure, by taking advantage of Lunar, Near earth, and asteroid belt resources, outer space populations will eventually gain the economic and strategic upper hand. This is due to the massive amounts of natural resources present in space, from common and precious metals to volatile "ices". Self-sufficiency should theoretically be possible, and once that happens, space-sourced goods become far cheaper (in space) than Earth-sourced counterparts due to the massive energy costs associated with space launch. 
 
In Dual Universe, planetside-sourced goods may stay economically competitive as orbital access I imagine will be much easier compared to real life. This however, makes setting up space-based industry much easier in the first place, which may lead to a stable equilibrium where both environments are competitive sources of goods. However, the biggest killer here are the cores. Based on my (probably outdated) non-NDA knowledge, static cores will scale up much bigger in the final game than dynamic cores. If planetside industry can take full advantage of economies of scale that orbital industries cannot, ground-based industry probably will win out.
 
Strategies are important as well. Under real physics, using orbital bombardment until the enemy surrenders (and dealing with potential insurgents later) is certainly a valid strategy. Wars will be won in deep space. However, the lack of WMDs and automated weaponry, even those seen on modern combat systems (e.g. Predator UAV, Tomahawk missiles, Phalanx CIWS) (despite the fact that high tech systems such as engines and nuclear reactors probably will have lots of automation beneath the hood for gameplay reasons) and rather relying on human operators means combat will likely look less like The Expanse and more like Star Wars.  Perhaps some inspiration will be taken from pre-transistor combat spacecraft designs such as Dyna-Soar or Project Orion Space Battleship, but I digress. The lack of weapons automation means human operators will have to play a more active role in space-to-ground combat, shifting the balance towards planetary forces.
 
Overall, I think its likely that Dual Universe will be balanced towards planetary gameplay. 

This isn't eve with it's fast paced pvp gameplay where you lose your ship, get back to your base, hop into the next ship (1 of 50) and get back into the fight. 
 
Later in the game you can ofc do pvp only (which is also my intent). Make enough money with other activities like production or trading and just buy your ships. But keep in mind that it'll never be as in eve. Simply because you also have long travel times of minutes to even hours, depending on where you are.

To have 3rd party programs which can calculate fastest skill times for certain activities like manufacturing stargates or flying that huge ass capital ship? Having a program which can Show you what to train best? 

We need a Element that can be placed in your base or ship that can recycle elements that you no longer need to return a portion of the raw materials.

But griefer isnt many, isnt too strong, just minor. With good way you can defend against griefer even they use try hard method.

About pirate, they are dangerous because if their demand be satisfies, they will try to demand for more to the point you arent enough and then to realiza you have work like a dog for them all the time. But also pirate got organize well, so they usually a group or a big group and very dangerous because they are not minor and they working as a team which griefer didnt usually do.

But ... a large group of griefer stay together to troll, destroy other is a REAL threat....

That seems like a lot of development time spent, when you don't need all that.  If an organization needs some Quanta, or ore to get off the ground.  Just come talk to me.  I give loans at 5 points a week.  Way easier than making some complicated system.

well yes, and that means you lose your mining levels and don't get a bonus there anymore but you gain scanning levels. You don't lose the SP but you lose the skill perk. Or you mean that in a completely different way?
 
few things about that to consider:
- yes some will have very high skills but it's always challenging because they only got a bonus from the talent tree to that skill (fuel efficiency for example) but that doesn't make them the best pilot there is or the best miner. You still have to know mechanics, learn and use them. That's what ppl will shine at - not their ingame bonus they get from doing something
- point 1 goes for teamwork too. I may have all mining skills at 5 because I played DU from the beginning but some newbro might be way more efficient than me because he just knows the mechanics of mining better. Talents only provide a bonus to what you do, they don't make you automatically better
- pvp: yes ofc, such things may happen. But then again CvC/AvA is a branch on it's own and you may need all those skills anyway to even learn higher ones. And besides: NQ always said that you can get fairly quickly to a reasonable talent level (3-4), mastery needs a lot of time. So this isn't "unbalanced" because most pvp skilled avatars might only miss the lvl 5 skill which only translates to maybe 5% weapon efficiency, 10% fuel efficiency or whatever
- That being said: you just have to look at eve online where there is a similar tree. I can hop into the game right now, make a new char, train for 4h and go hunt other ppl. And I can even kill them, although they have millions of SP and play the game since 15years. Just because I know what to do, how to handle my ship, how to use the game mechanics in my favor and how to trick ppl into believing smth which isn't there. Same thing can and will happen in DU imho

Hello all,
 
I am fairly new to DU, as I just got Alpha access and have only one real test session under my belt. I have been following the game for years, however, intrigued by the possibilities it offers. As I have been thinking more and more about the game and what role I want to play in it, I have come to the realization that there is so much more to build in DU than just ships and bases, and one of the things that DU will let us build is a society, with its own culture and unique characteristics.
 
Many people have already started to build those intangible elements that make up a society or culture. There are religious organizations, political organizations, etc. These are things that have a structure you can't see, and yet are just as important to a society as cities and space ships. We all know this game will force us to cooperate, and these kinds of "social constructs" will provide a way to do this.
 
What I want to build is similar, but different in some ways. It will be an organization dedicated to not politics or religion, but to philosophy. I am a practicing Stoic (stoicism is a branch of hellenistic philosophy, originating in Athens 300 B.C), and as such have a strong interest in philosophy, especially Stoicism. Stoicism is a philosophy whose adherents believe that nothing is within their control except their own actions and reactions, and that such actions and reactions should be carried out with courage, wisdom, temperance, and justice. Stoics also believe that all things are connected, especially all people, and therefore all people should be treated well. Lastly, Stoicism teaches that to live a good life, you must accept what is not in your control and strive to live virtuously regardless of external circumstances or events.
 
In ancient times, philosophers would have physical schools of philosophy to teach their philosophy of life to students. With the rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire, those schools became obsolete as the Church dictated how people should live instead.
 
I want to bring the school of Stoic philosophy into DU.
 
This is how I want to do this: 
 
First of all, I am not a philosopher, but a student of philosophy, therefore I will defer to the ancient and modern Stoic philosophers to do the actual teaching. Otherwise, I want to build a mecca of philosophy in the DU world. It will be a non-religious temple dedicated to philosophy, if that makes sense. This place will have monuments to the great philosophers as well as resources for those wanting to learn. I imagine screens lit up with stoic wisdom everywhere you turn and some amazing architecture to make the place a tourist destination. It will become a cultural phenomenon and touchstone, even help define the culture inside DU just as the schools of philosophy defined the culture of Ancient Rome. At worst it will be a spectacle that travelers will come to see, and at best it will help spread wisdom throughout the DU population.
 
In order to build such a structure, I will need help. I will need miners, architects, builders, ship builders, and more. I will need people to help flesh out this vision, too. If anyone is interested in joining me on this venture, or joining an organization dedicated to philosophy and stoicism, please respond. I haven't created the org yet, but I will as soon as I see that there is enough interest.
 
Cheers,
Zephos
 
 
 

Disclaimer: All ideas are based on the publicly available info, not under NDA.

Hello, so one of my biggest concerns with the voxel building tools so far, is the lack of support for curved shapes. I really think it would be sad to see an amazing game like this, filled with only Minecraft Box spaceships. Because curved shapes are so impossible to make. So here are a few basic additions I think could really improve on the current voxel building system. I know, more advanced voxel editing are planned like being able to edit control points, and a Voxel Element Library for more complex shapes. But, there are other, more simple things I think that can be done to get curved shapes into the game sooner rather then later. So, the basic idea is to make curved voxel shapes easily available so players would be encouraged to build none box shaped ships and constructs. I did some artwork to help illustrate my ideas. Please feel free to discuss and give feedback on this thread in the comments. Ok, So lets dive right into it.
 
 
These pictures are examples of designs that can be made with these shapes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
Starting Primitives
So, there are several shapes to begin with when using the voxel deploy tool. Here are some important primitives I suggest should be added as voxel brush shapes. Those shapes are Oblate Sphere, Prolate Sphere, Cone, Torus, Elbow Joint.

Why these shapes?
The reason I chose these shapes is because they are nearly impossible to make with with the current tools. An even with advanced editing options, they would still be difficult to get right. So it seems like a no-brainer to have these shapes as starting primitives for the voxel brush. It would make it much easier to start creating curved shaped constructs, and encourage more creative designs.
 
This picture is of the voxel shapes I think should be added to the voxel brush tool.

 
 
Voxel Shape Options
So the next thing is an a expansion on the voxel shapes, by adding parameters before/after the shapes is deployed. For example, having an option like size, and diameter of the TORUS shape before/after you deploy it, or option to set how extreme the elongation is on the SPHERE or CONE before/after you deploy it, and even maybe set the angle of the Elbow joint. So, the way I imagine it would work is, when you select a starting primitive shape, shortcuts like arrow keys, numbers keys are used to set the value of the shape options, then you can deploy it as normal. Also, having an option box that would stay on screen as long as you're using that shape could work too, so that you can continue to change options and deploy new shapes.

This pictures give an example of what changing the options would look like on each shape.
          
 
 
Bevel, Fillet, sharpen edge tool
So, we currently have a tool that allows builder to smooth edges, but to expand on that idea, I think we should also have the option to Bevel, Fillet, or sharpen edges as needs. The issue is that most times the smooth tool does not give the desired result, or maybe you only want to bevel an edge but not smooth it, or maybe you want some edges with a fillet and some edges sharpen. I imagine it working exactly like the current smooth edge tool, except you would be able to Bevel an edge, Fillet an edge, or Sharpen an edge.
 
 
This pictures below illustrates how the tool would effect the edge. This is the current smooth tool.
           
 
 
Additional Ideas
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Scale Axes
I think this is a simple, but vary important option that needs to be available. Basically we have the option to scale the size of voxel primitives, but we should also have the option to scale voxel primitives on a specific axis (X, Y, Z). This I think would definitely add greater control to create the desired shapes, as well as enhance the freedom of creativity.
 
Hollow Primitives
So, this thought came to me last minute, but I think its something that shouldn't be overlooked. The ability to start with hollow voxel primitives. Either a voxel brush option to deploy hollow voxels, or solid, and set the wall thickness, or have hollow voxel shapes as a standard starting shape to choose from. I know that there is an option to cut out voxels using primitives shapes, but the main issue is that cutting out voxels gives a very ugly looking result, most times the edges don't look right at all, or you need a hard edge but the cut out has a rounded edge with a messy texture. Also, hollow primitive shapes would improve the speed, and ease of use when building constructs. Especially when working with curved shapes. Trying to hollow out a curved shape would be a nightmare, so starting with a hollow shape would be great.
 
Voxel Elements
So my last suggestion is in regard to Voxel Elements. Novaquark mention in this DevBlog that will have a Library of detail, or complex voxel shapes that players could use in their constructs. They mentioned a spiral staircase as an example. Well, here are a few shapes that I think should be included in that database of Voxel Elements.

Pictures of suggested Voxel Elements to add to the Voxel Library.

 

I know that a voxel point cloud editing system is in development, list on trello Here. That will really open up lots of possibilities for builders. But, in addition to that, having a variety of voxel brush shapes to start with is still needed to give builders alternative options, because sometimes doing things one way just may not work out how you need it to, so having other ways to create shapes is a big help.
 
I think that covers the general ideas I had. My overall goal is to see more spaceships and constructs that aren't just limited to boxed shapes, and enable creative builders to really unleash their imagination. An I feel adding additional shapes to the Voxel Brush tool would be a good way to accomplish that goal. Please feel free to give feedback in the comments.

Thanks for reading, see you in the next thread.
 
 

Dear Community Members, 
Last week we've already detailed some of the main changes and additional features in the r0.15 Update.
Today, we want to give you a visual preview of those changes and features and we just released a short video for the occasion!
 


We will also release a DevBlog on the Talent System later this week, so stay tuned!  
 
The Novaquark Team.

Can you use google drive or something to export it ?, wouldnt mind download it tho.

You won't get such a thing in DU imho. I doubt that players will do that in this particular way. 
 
The way I see it ppl will just do whatever they want until they recognize there is a problem. Then ppl will just look at the prevailing shipmeta: what ships do land in our market? How long are most ships? Then actand build platforms accordingly. For special guests who might pay higher fees they can even get better/bigger pads. As I said, markets will provide services too. If most ppl can't land properly there, less ppl will use it. 
 
It's a game, no need to make things more complicated then they need to be. Also, I doubt ppl from different orgs will agree easily or at all to some consensus. I certainly never have the mood to sit in such s comittee
 

Third place
Dart by Staples
 

 

Ol' Bessy by Tordan
 

What you are seeing in that picture is called a "Condensation Trail" (or a "Contrail"). Those trails are formed by water vapor coming out of the Engine or changes in the air pressure. The Engine exhausts 2 things, both CO^2 and water vapor. It's not just the Engines that can form them, the Wingtip as well can form them. We call them Vortices.

 

For more information about "Condensation Trail" ("Contrail"), read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail
 
That is the Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory people make ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory ).
Those coming out of the Engines are not mostly chemicals, those are mostly clouds. Those coming out of the Wingtip are all clouds.
 
There is no such thing as a "Chemtrail" (try googling it and it will all lead you to conspiracies).
 
How about this picture below? Like I said, the Engines both emit CO^2 and water vapor. What you see here is a feature of a Contrail. CO^2 doesn't leave a trail, the water vapor does. There is no such thing as a Chemtrail.
 
"Experts on atmospheric phenomena say that the characteristics attributed to chemtrails are simply features of contrails responding to diverse conditions in terms of sunlight, temperature, horizontal and vertical wind shear, and humidity levels present at the aircraft's altitude." (source: Wikipedia)

 
Also, Contrails can never form in space or non-athmo planets/moons. That's not possible.

A great idea to promote explore spirit. Also i would like if more feature can be add:
- The one who first to upload the data can then choose the name of the planet (And of course it will be process and approve by the system (DEV) to prevent the unacceptable name ).
- Planet which dont have name should be set as ?????? planet and no specific information about it vaild until someone upload the information.
- The same set name should also applies to system too, i would like to see Bob's Haven system .
- The system/planet after upload should only prevail the common resource and left ?? ?? ?? ?? type of ore so that player will once have to venture into the planet to scan, if someone scan the exotic ore on the planet or the ore which not display with general scan whole planet, then they have ability to upload the information about that ore on the Ark Ship ... or keep secret for themselves.