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DevBlog - r015 Udpate (part 4): Talent System!

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(this DevBlog has been posted on the website on May 2nd, 2019)


Hey guys! 

It’s NQ-Entropy here today and we’re going to talk about Player Progression!

 

We’re finally introducing a big chunk of our player progression and it's what we're calling the Talent System. The Talent System is one of the major ways that you’ll be able to build and specialize your character in the world of Dual Universe. Character progression and specialization is a major pillar for us in order to allow you guys to embody various professions, but also to promote teamwork amongst groups and on the job market.

 

dualuniverse_2019-05-07t16h31m44s.png__960x509_q85_subsampling-2.jpg

 

The Talent System is a time-based progression model during which you will get more and more training points. Featured as part of the talent tree is a talent queue. Based upon what talents you wish to acquire, you may queue various talents in your training queue. This will allow you to set-up, plan, and prepare your talent acquisition for an extended period of time. Should you decide not to train anything in the queue, a portion of your talent points will be saved in your talent point bank, ready to be used at any time.

 

Keep in mind that not utilizing the talent queue means acquiring points at a slower rate. Avoid taking too much time deciding, as you’ll pay in total points what you gain in flexibility.

 

Now that you can acquire them, let's talk about what a Talent actually is. A talent is a beneficial effect split into five different levels. Each level grants a bonus or a potential element unlock. A bonus will usually be a boost to a part of your character, like character sprint speed, or something more specific like mining efficiency.

 

Talents are planned to touch nearly every single feature and become a main pillar of the game. They will serve as element unlocks, allow you to engineer better quality constructs, and grant you the ability to fly faster ships. They will open access to various tools and even significantly buff your current ones.

 

The first available talents that you will have access to are:

 

  1. Basic character stats
  2. Digging and terraforming
  3. Mining
  4. Tool and element unlocks


As we continue to add more talents, you can expect expansion upon these categories as well as the introduction of new ones.

However, there are a couple of things worth addressing before you begin testing:

 

  1. You might feel like you’re being hamstrung at the beginning. Some talents will allow you to do things you couldn't do before, yet others will serve to limit access to things you could do in the past. Our goal is not to be overbearing in our limitations, but give appropriate growth to specific aspects of the Talent System and provide a power balance over time. We will iterate on it in the future.
  2. As of right now, some levels of talents do not unlock anything. This is something that we are aware of and will continue to fill in the gaps as we go. For now, just be certain to double check what a level unlocks and train for nothing by mistake.
  3. The current balancing is not final. We are testing technical limitations and gameplay limitations. Expect talent bonuses to alter or be removed as we address future balance changes.
  4. It is likely the system will go through resets during the testing phase. Our goal is to see that players do not lose talent points after we initiate the system; we will aim to “re-spec” your character in-between resets. While we cannot 100% guarantee this, rest assured we will try our best to approach this as fairly as possible.
     

That’s all the news we have to share for the moment, but I invite everyone to explore the new Talent window and give us feedback on specific talents or the system as a whole. We hope you really enjoy this feature!

 

As always, don't hesitate to give some feedback in this dedicated forum thread! :)

 

See you guys later!
NQ-Entropy

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I thought there will be no Skill or Talent System in DU...
Someone sayd that in Interviews 2 years ago
The Reason was DU should not restrict people in theyr playstiles.

Now we get a system, where you have to spend skill points gathered by time.
This may lead into heavy Multiaccounting like in EVE Online if you ask me.

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Skill progression has always been on the table as part of the game as far back as I can recall. It is a vital part of the game and I would not be as interested in DU if it was not.

 

I would be interested to know why the choice was made to call his a "Talent system" while it is a skill tree.. 

 

Also, while the screenshot in the post makes more clear why the layout is the way it is, I do hope to see a revamp of this fairly soon as it is very busy and cluttered. This can be made much more compact with information moved to pop up text as you hover over for starters. There is just too much information on the screen at once. 

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Wow, this system is going to make it hard to both design ships AND test them early on.  If there are skills for basic things like "flying hover engines" and "flying with ailerons," that will severely limit the ability to build something you can actually test well until much later in game and will likely cause a lot of discouragement in people just learning the game and trying to build things..  I'm sure it'll work out fine by release (and later on in your DU career), but It will make for a ROUGH start. Hopefully there will be better balance simulation/analysis tools when building.

 

As an analogy: allowing the ability to write code while essentially disabling (or severely limiting) the ability to properly "unit test" or "debug" it seems like a really bad idea at first glance.  We'll see how it goes, I suppose.

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The fourth point made in the Devblog kind of confuses me. Do you mean you plan on there being regular skill resets, in-between wipes, where only the skills get changed and re-specked? Will the skills we learned still be wiped along with everything else (besides blueprints) when a wipe happens?

 

Otherwise, Can't wait to try out the skill system along with the other new toys! :D

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i was waiting long time for the skill tree...now it is live, and i don't like it...at least r0.15 part

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Can't wait to see the talent system up close and how it develops from here :)

 

Just to report: I am subscribed to both this subforum and to all NQ staff on the forum, but I did not receive any notifications about this post :( This isn't the first time.

These kinds of posts are the main reason for me to receive notifications in the first place, I'd like to keep up to date about communications from NQ and not have to keep checking various places manually.

Hope this can be fixed.

 

Cheers

 

EDIT: Question, how much slower will the talent points come in when the training queue is empty?

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I am happy with this system! I also like that each talent is multi-tiered. For those who nay-sayed me when I said the talent tree would be time based and not 'grind' based. *insert emoji kissing my butt here*.  I don't recall who it was but they were adamant that they were right. :)  Time based is a far more fair system and more realistic imo by not favoring one set of people (those with no jobs ha) over another set of people. Love it. Keep it up NQ! :D  

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4 hours ago, CodeGlitch0 said:

Wow, this system is going to make it hard to both design ships AND test them early on.  If there are skills for basic things like "flying hover engines" and "flying with ailerons," that will severely limit the ability to build something you can actually test well until much later in game and will likely cause a lot of discouragement in people just learning the game and trying to build things..  I'm sure it'll work out fine by release (and later on in your DU career), but It will make for a ROUGH start. Hopefully there will be better balance simulation/analysis tools when building.

 

As an analogy: allowing the ability to write code while essentially disabling (or severely limiting) the ability to properly "unit test" or "debug" it seems like a really bad idea at first glance.  We'll see how it goes, I suppose.

Your right it does make it harder, but couldn't you get someone else(or several people) to test the ship for you? 

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Why a talent and skill system? Isn't DU meant to be all about player skill, player creativity and player interactions? Not character levels?

I don't like this at all and I don't think placing artificial limitations will fit into the creative sandbox concept.

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To those who thought there would be no skills, or that they wouldn't be time-based:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949863330/dual-universe-civilization-building-sci-fi-mmorpg

 

Search for "skill-based character progression" about halfway down the page. It says:

Quote

we use a skill-based character progression. You can select one skill at a time to train, and specialize your character as you go. Skills train in real-time, whether you're online or not.

 

In other words this has always been part of the plan. The kickstarter was almost 3 years ago.

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I rly don't know why ppl are shocked. It was clear from the start that du has character progression. And that there are many limits to this "creative" sandbox (mining, crafting, ingame money, pvp, skills, ...)

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I do have one concern about the resets or re-specs of the skill trees. Because this is a timed base skill progression, does that mean we'll have to wait that time all over again to re-spec those skill? If a skill takes a week to complete I really wouldn't want to have to wait that week again just to get the skill back.

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21 minutes ago, Thasrion said:

I do have one concern about the resets or re-specs of the skill trees. Because this is a timed base skill progression, does that mean we'll have to wait that time all over again to re-spec those skill? If a skill takes a week to complete I really wouldn't want to have to wait that week again just to get the skill back.

They covered that. In the dev blog the said that they would somewhat reimburse sp after a reset

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Yeah, I could see NQ giving everyone some SP to start with. The interesting bit will be to choose where to apply them wisely. As the system is basically the same as in EVE, personally I think the best way to go is to find the few crucial skills you just need to have and specialize from there. For EVE there are 14 such skills and it will be interesting to find the ones for DU. I can see quite some discussion around that.

 

While at first glance it seems a bit over complex and requiring micromanagement, the horrible initial graphic iteration aside, the system is a decent starting point.

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To all, that don't agree with the skill system.

 

We have been able to build what ever we wanted all the time until now. This is now the time to focus on organization. It's time to specialize our members and give them specific roles. This is what the game will make interesting in the long term.

 

Until now we all have been godlike superpowers with the biggest backpack ever. This had to be limited.

 

I am totally looking forward into the skill system and becoming the super god I was until now, ... after a freaking long time, hell yeah.

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Agree!

The only thing that is missing to make the implementation complete is the implementation of organizations In DU. 

Logically you are correct but at the moment the means to organize correctely in DU are not there. The RDMS is not complete and any way we organize organizations now is in an "around" way.

Love the talent system but i would really urge NQ to try to implement an early version of the ORG. System soonish Tm, so we are able to proper test the specialization tree

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I hope you are just testing it at the moment because restricting stuff like walking speed and calling it a skill to get rid of this is pretty lame :\

would be nicer if skills were just tradedable items like implants wich are really hard to craft and gave real skills like xray vision to find ressources to mine or show some aditional infos on things i focus like players or ships. They could be placed on unlockable limited space and also be rearranged like in wicher 3 or something.
This walking speed things could be increased by just walking a lot, which would feel a lot more motivating like in skyrim or gta SA and 5.

Unlocking tools are also questionable "skills", just let me craft them if you do not want me to have them on start.

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2 minutes ago, MountainBerg said:

snip

this isn't the NDA section so be careful

 

Skills gained with time is better than gained by doing it in MMOs for obvious reasons. For the different skills - it's the first iteration. Surely, some are just misplaced and will change. I think they just need to think of skills to train so ppl have smth to test there - because a lot of mechanics aren't in yet -> thus a lot of skills aren't even ingame

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Coming off of a spaceship (after how many thousand years again?) all rusty and weak boned, you better train your walking skills though :D

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22 hours ago, nzwoodturner said:

 

They covered that. In the dev blog the said that they would somewhat reimburse sp after a reset

I'm not talking about the points. I'm referring to the time spent training the skill.

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1 hour ago, Thasrion said:

I'm not talking about the points. I'm referring to the time spent training the skill.

If you already have the points needed, all skills can be trained instantly. You only need to queue skills your waiting to have enough points for. You should always have something queued though,  because you acquire points faster when you do.

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13 hours ago, Tordan said:

If you already have the points needed, all skills can be trained instantly. You only need to queue skills your waiting to have enough points for. You should always have something queued though,  because you acquire points faster when you do.

Okay, I might be missing something here on how these skill are trained. So the way you're explaining it, we queue skills we want to learn and they cost points to gain those skills. As we do things in the game we accumulate points over time. When we have enough points for the first queued skill we gain that skill and the next skill in the queue is moved up into the first slot? Am I seeing that correct? If that is correct, that is nothing like the Eve skill training. Each skill has a designated time to complete, this is kind of point accrual than time base, kinda. 

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