Novidian

I would also like to point out that calling the majority of the playerbase "cheaters" is a severe mischaracterization of the situation. A cheater is someone who takes advantage of unintended mechanics for personal gain. Yes there were a small number of players who exploited to duplicate assets or make themselves invincible in pvp but the vast majority are innocent. What has occurred here is just changes in circumstance. The game's various features have evolved since the start of beta and some players therefore had an easier time than others. This does not constitute cheating as at the time they were merely using the gameplay features as intended. Please understand that this distinction is important and also one of the reasons why the decision on whether or not to wipe is not easy to make.

This has to be some kind of record for how fast someone can make their own post worthless..

Get lost sucker. I played this game for two years without ever using an exploit or glitch, did'nt buy the cheap schemata or used any other irregular moves for my gain. And there are many, many more who played within the rules and honestly. i may not have billions in cash, but surely billions in assets.
 
I'm strictly against a wipe and the main reason for this is trust. I will not pay a dime to a company which breaks all her promises.

Your argumentation is very flawed. Your quoted sentence proves only the "knowledge is advantage" part. The rest is just dogmatic opinion.  

At this point I don't think anybody cares what you think.  Or what I think.  Or what anybody else thinks for that matter.  This has been discussed to death and literally every possible opinion, including this one, has been debated to death.  Again.  and again.  and again.  and so many times that this post made me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon rather than read yet another predictable wipe/no wipe argument which adds literally nothing new.
 
I think at this point it has all been said and we only care about what NQ are actually going to do.

My suggestion would be for everybody to stop posting anything at all to the forum until we get an answer.

IMO it's because they are dishonest and want to take as many monthly subs as they can right now regardless of whether or not that is the right thing to do.  They know people will cancel their subs when a wipe is announced so they keep putting the announcement off and claiming to be still discussing it.
 
IMO of course.

This !!
 
I stopped all my subscriptions a day after the initial post from NQ (Shedding some fog ....)
With every day passing by my distance from the game grows - to get me back in this game NQ would have to produce a miracle.

If alienated, I will certainly pay 1 month subs to pass my 12 DACs to someone to keep the debt alive 😜

That's a horrible idea, it reads like "How to drive players away!"...

very disappointed 
 

I don't know how you Wipers develop this delusion that a wipe is going to miraculously bring in a bunch of new players who wouldn't play otherwise - aside from your own wishful thinking and a peer-group of likeminded friends probably reinforcing your bubble. There's just no evidence ever in any game that a wipe does anything more than swap out some old players for new less-committed players resulting in long-term decline. And those who are unhappy with their lot in the game - access to territory or resources - are just replaced with a different group of people who missed out on the latest land rush. Add to that it's also a reversal on a commitment made at beta launch ('magic BPs') and the result will be even worse. 

Yes, wiping talent points on any account (beta-key or paid) is a definitive "I'm gone" too.
 
How can it possibly be a good thing to hold a knife to the throat of the entire player base? How do they expect players to want to invest time and effort into something that may get deleted? Yes, any MMO have a limited life span, but this is so demotivating. It's not like new players don't become aware that there's a wipe hanging over our heads considering the discussion comes up over and over in general chat.
 
I love (some parts of) the game and the community, but I am utterly disappointed in NQ.

In terms of removing schematics, a wipe is the worst thing you can do. If you just pull the rug from under us and completely remove schematics in one fell swoop, it would be absolute carnage.But even though some people would be salty that they wasted all of that money, by the next time they need to make a new machine, they would be thankful. If you decide to wipe, however, you would lose practically your entire current player base permanently. I‘ve supported this game since the alpha, and played since the beta, and I want this game to succeed, cause it is the exact game I’ve always wanted made by the most helpful and chill dev team I’ve ever had the pleasure of asking to unstuck my ship. But while I myself might come back to the game post wipe to try and rebuild eventually, I’m afraid- when your game is based around the players- there might not be a game to come back to.
You are also not going to gain players by wiping, as chances are new people won’t be more inclined (maybe even less inclined due to a lack of stability) to buy the game if there has been a recent wipe. The only time having more advanced players would disincentivise new players would be after they’ve already started playing, due to it feeling unfair. In our community, this is by far not the case, as any new player won’t be shunned, but actively helped and elevated to the Same level. I’d take Carothis as an example, as he asked for help with a really obvious thing in the chat. This then led the chat to realise that they were new, so they immediately had multiple people (myself included) personally guiding carothis. Carothis now has a complete mining rig and is the superlegate of an org. That took them 1 day under the communities help. Therefore a wipe would deter new players, as old ones would be too busy rebuilding from scratch to help them.
tl:dr
Plz no wipe, I don’t want dead gaem.

DU is arguably at it's lowest population point since they started charging a sub.... and the servers are still on fire. This does not bode well for release.

Paired with talk of a wipe still being on the table, and NQ has nailed their game to the cross. I don't like the next part of this movie.

I logged on this weekend and paid taxes. Also updated my skills as I was leaving room for maybe aphealia skills. But refuse to play till they decide if we are wiping or not. Couple other guys feel the same way and we have been playing space engineers. Man I love mining in that game. Something about building cool machines to do the mining for you. And the weather on the planets, npcs you can fight and raid, several types of missions. If it only had an mmo aspect....

Problem is that many of those will be "I don't care about a wipe anymore, this was the last straw and I am done with this game". And they are going to be telling this to all their friends, and some of them are also going to be youtubers making reviews.

I just limped my ships back to home base where I parked them and logged out. That's it, not playing this "game" any more until the collision detection is fixed/removed and wipe situation is made clear.

I am beginning to believe that NQ, knows what they are doing in not making a " decision" about a wipe. I think they want to wipe. The longer they take with the announcement that they are going to wipe, they more players will have the mindset of " I don't care about a wipe anymore, just get it over with".
 As for me, I have stopped building,  and have started looking into other aspects of the game that I have not explored yet(pvp, lua).

I’ve been trying for some time to avoid posting much on this topic, and my stance has always been that of no wipe at all. NQ has earned many a sub since they became available, operating off of the inference that there would be no wipes barring a catastrophic necessity. Many backers, myself included, will still run at least an alt sub or two come launch. Even with DACs, backers will be subscribers too. I think if they pin their hopes solely on new players, at the expense of backers/beta players, they’ll ultimately lose more than they stand to gain.
 
However, part of me sympathizes with NQ’s plight of trying to release the best possible game at launch to make a positive impression on new players, somehow without causing a mass exodus of players already heavily invested in the game.
 
At this point, I feel no wipes works against that goal, but so does a full wipe (which I am vehemently against and would cancel/unsub alts if it happened - my sons also play this game and share the sentiment). I feel that the players ARE the content and maintaining as much carry over from beta as possible only benefits new players, so long as it isn’t at the expense of the game’s quality at launch.
 
Concepts like “fairness” are questionable to me, though. You ultimately can’t create it long term, because you cannot enforce it. You can only try and give every player the same opportunity, which everyone has. New players will find their time rewarded the same way beta players found theirs. I’m also unsure about what a “balanced economy” actually consists of and looks like in NQs eyes. Some with always have more than others - how does a wipe actually lead to that goal.
 
That said, here is my devils advocate approach to a solution, which reflects the most compromise/sacrifice I am personally willing to make without leaving and not looking back:
 
Talents: 
Wipe talents. Pitchforks down, please. Afterwards, pre-launch players will start with ALL QoL like talents at max.
 
Container range, athletics, personal core units, tool efficiency. Anything that doesn’t represent an advantage in combat and industry or the like, that can cut down the time getting back on their feet and working towards their specialty.
 
Then, add a pool of XP based on how many months they had an active account during beta. Like 200k/month. This should give vets something to work with, without enabling them the option of doing everything imaginable right out of the gate.
 
Finally, add additional tiers to industry talents, 5-10 total, to further incentivize specialization. Increase talent costs for those tiers, and make those massive margins something to unlock with considerable dedication.
 
Schematics:
Delete them and just rip the band aid off. No compensation sadly, because many were acquired in ill gotten fashion.
 
Replace them with MUCH lower cost “licenses” in game, that allow a finite amount of uses before expiring. You could even have different length variants at different costs. This would not be an item inserted into an industry unit, but rather a timed unlock for characters. It would essentially grant any industry unit owned by a player the ability to produce x product for y time. No plunking them into individual units, which saves time.
 
Anything T1 can be nanocrafted for free. This should make the cost entry to industry more manageable for new players, while creating a more sustainable quanta sink long term.
 
Dynamic constructs:
Each player may keep their compactified constructs and one designated “flagship” dynamic construct. This is like flagging a tile as HQ. Just r-click it in menu in the same manner. This vessel will then be magic BPd sans any container content, and will be in your inventory at launch. All other dynamics you own would become core BPs, DRM intact.
 
Ideally, there would be a mechanic in place where any elements deployed with the construct would have a special tag, making it where they couldn’t be removed - only deleted. That way you can edit it, without the “I’m gonna hoard 100 exotics” loophole. Any easier work around would be to simply make it unable to be edited, beyond lua.
 
The flagship designation could remain in game, actually. It would enable one dynamic you own to become a magic BP, in the event it becomes abandoned anywhere in game. Everything else goes to the vultures.
 
Territory and static construct wipes:
Planet resets and the resulting visual improvements make this justified IMO. This may need to occur in a few offline “phases” to do properly.
 
First of all, all land ownership is wiped  before terrestrial constructs.  Any HQ tiles wiped as a result of the reset will refund 500k quanta and one TU per HQ tile lost. TUs would probably need weight substantially reduced to accommodate this, or simply make a special no weight version for this purpose. (NQ could up the ante and throw in a container M and four L mining units, but whatevs) This offsets the surface cost of resettlement and gives you the basics required to do so.

Then, all containers will have their contents deleted. 

Finally,
Any regular static with either containers, flight elements, and/or industry becomes a core BP. Your factories can be rebuilt when you have the mats, ensuring you won’t have to relink and set up anything.
 
 
Any regular static without industry, flight, or container elements becomes a magic BP.
 
Space statics would follow the same rule set.
 
Quantas… I’m all for some kind of starting cap, like 250m-1b. This is the more difficult one to pin down. It comes down to that whole fairness thing that I think is a silly notion. However, there’s no denying some people acquired wealthy unfairly, even if it doesn’t necessarily affect anyone else directly.
 
Thats all I can think of at the moment. 🤷‍♂️ 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

I gotta keep saying it -- big updates in advance of an incoming release combined with very low player counts because of wipe angst (or constructs being ruined) is a potentially lethal cocktail. 
 
This is the time NQ needs to actually beta test and find bugs and flaws in their ability to scale.
 
This being the "dead-phase" of DU is not good...this is the time it should be the busiest if NQ hopes to have the feedback it needs to do a clean release. 
 
This wipe BS has gone on for too long. If they wait until right before release, that means Athena will be practically untested at anything close to load. 
 
That's a huge gamble and makes this entire beta program rather pointless...you don't make last minute changes to a rocket 30 seconds before launch and hope for the best. 
 
This is the time DU actually needs a real beta program, but NQ has greatly reduced its effectiveness by delaying this simple decision. Yet again, players are warning them about what will happen, and yet again NQ thinks we are know-it-alls that don't understand the process (as if none of us have released software before lol).
 
Good luck with release, but we already know how this will play out. 

Well done NQ..
 
You managed to make players uninstall and leave because they can't see themselves handle the pressure of fixing ships that should not be broken and what is reported as broken is due to your algorithm not working as it should. (or better, is irrelevant to the intended target).

This construction thing is overshooting the intended target so far it is affecting players who designed and sold ships in good faith and do not feel they should now be punished by having to go around fixing stuff that is really not broken at all.

As with many things, we told you this was an issue but you once again did not listen and as a result more creators leave the game.
 
While I could fix my constructs, ALL of the triggers for the obstruction were with YOUR element design and how hitboxes work. And on top of that, what is happening now had _nothing_ to do with the original reason for these changes, people using tricks to place multiple elements in the same space and have them operate fine. It is the usual "carpet bomb the general area to try and hit the target cheap solutions NQ is coming up with that is driving people away as they impact the general enjoyment and gameplay. 


And no, "log a ticket" is not a valid response here. We told you, you ignored us (once again) and so this is _your_ problem, not ours. Besides that, there is no way to be sure such a ticket would get any attention to begin with.
 
On top of that, you know you are going to wipe, you also know (or should at least) that this will resolve the intended target constructs from returning into the game as their blueprints will not work, yet you still shoe horned an otherwise pointless change which just causes more grief and disappointment for your player base.
 
 
Such a shame to see what once was a game with immense promise be washed down the drain by these things. Such a damned shame..
 

Until you guys finish  your internal discussion on whether there should be a wipe or not you guys should stop taxing us. 

The sooner they announce a wipe, the sooner i can totally concentrate on another game with more trustworthy developers. In case they decide not to wipe my accounts are on standby since 2 weeks, only logged in today to check if one of the patch-bugs hit my accounts.
Automatic payment is off, tiles are paid for 3 month - let's see what happens.

How about a decision about that possible wipe?. Does not make much sense to play, or post updates while we are in the dark

Not obvious who 'we' is here.  Looking at the 28 page wipe thread it's not obvious that the majority of players agree with it.