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Saul Retav got a reaction from satoshi in Limiting Script Automation will Hinder Economic Growth
No one said anything about infinite resources. Although, technically resources will be infinite because the universe itself is infinite. You missed the point.
I'm not suggesting anything too drastic. Using the phrase "free automation scripting" was a mistake on my part. Everything should have it's limits, but for a science fiction game those limits should at least try and be realistic (note: only being able to mine by hand is highly unrealistic).
Mining "24/7" for an individual will be impossible anyways (due to server restrictions, automated scripts won't be able to run without an authorized player present).
Let's forget combat automation for now.
The ability to use automated industrial processes for mining is in no way "against emergent gameplay." If carelessly implemented, yeah, it would suck (almost as much as mining everything by hand). But it can be implemented thoughtfully, in a way that supports emergent gameplay and discourages automation abuse.
Was the problem in your Rust example really automation, or the result of an infinite resource (crude oil)? If the clans had run out of oil they'd have had to employ a different strategy and, one way or another, be vulnerable to attack, right? It does sound like a messy situation and I'm genuinely curious as to what the contributing factors were.
I was following along with your last paragraph thinking, "6 capital ships per day between 17 planets united under a common alliance? Heck yes! That level of interstellar warfare and player organization would be awesome!!" until I saw, "without a player spending a minute mining..." You see, I think you're missing the point. There would be players mining. Maybe not the millions of miners that might be required to keep up with that sort of operation if they were limited to mining by hand. But instead, at that point in the game, you'd have a bunch of players all working together in mining corporations, assembling, disassembling, repairing, and transporting mining equipment; transporting and storing fuel for the equipment; scripting, rescripting, and troubleshooting the equipment; transporting, storing, and selling mined minerals. And those are just the technical jobs I can come up with off the top of my head; you'd also need managers to orchestrate and organize the employees, and, if the org was big enough, you'd need upper-level managers to organize and direct the lower-level managers. That's what I see as "emergent gameplay" and player cooperation.
To achieve this level of emergence would probably require certain game mechanisms:
Frequently used elements eventually requiring repair/replacement. Abiding, to a degree, by the law of conservation of energy and the law of conservation of mass (AKA "no infinite material or energy sources"). And there's probably something else, but it's 1:20am and I'm going to bed. -
Saul Retav got a reaction from Ralgimanek in Limiting Script Automation will Hinder Economic Growth
The devs have said that automated mining will probably not be an option. As a student of business and economics, here's what I think:
ABSTRACT:
Limiting script automation for both mining and weapons fire will greatly limit the capacity for economic growth and in-game innovation.
The mining industry, for example, will start out with individuals mining for minerals and directly selling them to other players or on an open market. It will eventually evolve into a number of mining corporations that will be able to provide minerals more cheaply through an organized workforce and semi-automated processes. This is inevitable, as it should be. But why limit the mining industry to this level of business innovation? By disallowing further automation, yes, the market for mundane repetitive tasks like mining by hand will be preserved. But what would happen to the broader job market in a simulated economy where automation is unregulated? It would expand exponentially.
How would automated mining exponentially expand economic growth and job availability? Well, the whole purpose of automation is to reduce labor costs, to reduce the price of goods (raw minerals, in this case), so that, in a competitive free market economy, businesses can stay... competitive. Inevitably, reducing the price of raw minerals allows other businesses, further up the chain of production, to increase production and lower their prices (competitive market, remember). These reduced prices further up the chain of production lead to increased demand and, therefore, new market opportunities.
STORY TIME:
John Smith is a miner. He mines steel all day for Mineral Corp, gets a commission based on how much steel he mines, and Mineral Corp sells the steel to spaceship manufacturing facilities. One day Mineral Corp decides to cut costs by using automated mining drones. Nooooo!!!! Curse you Human Ingenuity!!
Let's look at what just happened:
In order to cut costs, mining corporations are now buying automated mining drones. This new demand for drones is providing jobs for programmers, industrial designers, manufacturers, and even truckers (to transport all the extra minerals that are being more cheaply produced and are increasingly in demand by all these industries)!
Back to John Smith:
John lost his job to robots. The Luddite fear that soulless computers will replace all the honest employees has come true! *cough cough* But when John's at home, drinking away his sorrows with some Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, he opens up the classifieds and is shocked to see hundreds of jobs available that weren't there yesterday! Not only jobs related to the production of mining drones, but many seemingly unrelated jobs!
Where did these other jobs come from?
They came from the steel being cheaper. Businesses that use that steel for product production, like spaceships and buildings, can now sell their products more cheaply. Having cheaper spaceships increases the demand for spaceships because more people can afford them. In order to meet that increased demand, spaceship manufacturers must increase their production by hiring more employees (new jobs! Yay!). So now, even though less people are mining by hand, more people are building spaceships (as well as countless other things)!
John Smith may not be mining anymore, but he has a new job now, that pays more, and he can enjoy a cheaper cost of living thanks to those beautiful automated mining drones.
BASIC FORMULA:
Automation = reduced cost.
Reduced cost + competition = reduced price.
Reduced price = increased demand.
Increased demand = increased production.
Increased production = increased job availability.
Automation + competition = increased job availability.
Can we please have free automation scripting?
(I may touch on automated weapons-fire later)
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Saul Retav got a reaction from clonewars222 in Explosives
I haven't seen much on this and haven't heard if it's planned, so here it is:
I think combat should include explosive elements like mines, bombs, and grenades. Blast radius weapons that aren't just point and shoot. The potential overpoweredness of it could be tamed with appropriate defenses such as shields, radar, fancy footwork, and active protection systems (point defense, countermeasures, laser missile defense, etc.). I think it would add a lot of richness and tactical diversity to the combat dynamic.
Thoughts? ? ? ?
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Saul Retav reacted to Loglyn in Dual Universe Building Fonts - Ennea Font
Building in Dual Universe could do with a simple basis font that is small so that it can create any letter, and the larger the font is the more different it can become. for the limited options of small sized fonts a simple name for that font would be useful; Which I propose as Ennea Font. (Ennea is greek for 9; the amount of voxels this type of font takes up per letter.
There is also a Hexa Font. Alas, some letters are hard to read at this level.
W and M require a minimum of 4 voxels wide, and I doesn't need any width. S is actually more legible as 2 voxels wide.
I hope having names for these fonts and the font being available to be copied for in game will speed up some design processes.
~Loughlin
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Saul Retav reacted to DarkHorizon in Explosives
If explosives weren't planned for this game then I don't think I would have fronted 500 for it.
Very interested in how anti-air weapons develop.
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Saul Retav reacted to Aaron Cain in Explosives
You forgot Nukes, for drops or mounted on a rocket/missile. We should definitely have those
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Saul Retav reacted to Warden in Climat and Eco-Systems on Planets
Implementing basic biome types with basic effects shouldn't be wizardry in general. Whether it will be technically possible without causing major instability or performance impacts here, is another question, that is.
I see this as part of space games that have any sorts of exploration component and sandbox elements.
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Saul Retav got a reaction from TheLongWorm in Climat and Eco-Systems on Planets
Eh, maybe. I'm not a game dev either. It's a good idea.
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Saul Retav reacted to TheLongWorm in Climat and Eco-Systems on Planets
I thought it would be a great idea and add to the Gameplay experience when we would have planets with they're own Climate and Eco-system that can be changed by the actions of the players so if players kill to many flesh eating animals the plant eating animals would eat the plants away that would effect the climate of the planet like in Spore just with more factors like Emissions or even machines that could change the amount of air or what kind of gases that are in the air so that players could change the presser and the heat of the planet so that Dead planets can get an working Eco-system with breathable air, the players could even do Magnetic Field generators to shield the atmosphere to protect the players from the Suns Radiation so New players with not so good gear can build, mine and do stuff on the planet.
Just an other Idea to think about it would add an lot to the Gameplay and the politic system, i mean that is one of the most important things in the game giving the players the control that would be an other way players can impact the world.
The climate could change have impact in multible ways like:
Higher see Level
Lower see Level
More Rain
less Rain
More thunder Storms
Less thunder Storms
No more trees
No more animals
More Airpressure
Less Airpressure
Unbreathable Air
breathable Air
Less Radiation
More Radiation
Hotter Atmosphere
colder Atmosphere
Clear Atmosphere
Completely light absorbing Atmosphere
Corrosive Atmosphere--->Iron and other materials gets eaten away and in case the player has an Armor and tools that anrent protected agents it goes as well.
not corrosive Atmosphere
It would give every Planet a special feeling and if your moving around and exploring the universe it would make it even more interesting.
It could even Implement mechanic that adds emission detection tools and could build up conflicts between organisations, one that is destroying everything with they're mining an the other that tries to keep the climate in control.
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Saul Retav got a reaction from Lethys in Climat and Eco-Systems on Planets
As cool as player actions affecting planetary ecology would be, it's well beyond the scope of DU's proposed gameplay mechanics. I imagine it would greatly increase server load, as well. But, it would be cool to have something like that in the distant future for sure.
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Saul Retav reacted to John in Recourses in Early Game
Remember that DU is immense. At the start we should have about 12 planets, with moons and lots of asteroids. These numbers will expand over the time.
The first planet : Alioth will have ~100 km radius others will be sometime even bigger. The time to extract all resources of these planets will be long, very very long....
Maybe rare resources will be depleted "quickly" but still it should be quite long. And you can still buy these rare resources on the markets, or ask to your team mates....
Just as a reminder here a calculation from JC:
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Saul Retav got a reaction from Morand in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav reacted to blazemonger in So.. How did it go this weekend
Never knew the ATV group was full with TRedactOLLS
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Saul Retav reacted to yamamushi in So.. How did it go this weekend
All I've got to say is, this is how it felt before it started:
This is how it felt during:
This is how it felt afterwards:
And this is how it feels waiting to play again:
Overall I'd say Saturday went like this:
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Saul Retav reacted to wizardoftrash in So.. How did it go this weekend
I woke up early for the test and [Redacted]
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Saul Retav reacted to Lord_Void in DU Memes
https://www.westthirdbrand.com/products/eaudeparfum-band-of-outlaws
This is a real perfume .... we didn't even make it up xD
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Saul Retav got a reaction from Code24 in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from nidan007 in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from Shockeray in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from Captain Jack in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from ATMLVE in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from GunDeva in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...
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Saul Retav got a reaction from TheBlender in So.. How did it go this weekend
I heard from an unnamed ATV member, on an unnamed forum, that...