Akroma

The asteroid stuff seems like an improvement. But not really what I was hoping for myself when I heard that asteroid hunting was going to get a rework. I've always wanted the DSAT coordinate system to be replaced with a DSAT that works like the scanner/direction scanner tools that are used for mining. That's a neat mechanic that requires some skill and intuition, and now it's barely used. Seems like a waste. Tracking down an asteroid could work just like tracking down an ore node.

I see some pvpers think that the removal of the discovered column will make it hard to find miners and kill them. But we haven't seen how the new roid spawning will work. If the roids are continuously despawing/respawning, there might only ever be 20-30 spawned roids and it will actually be easier to find miners.

The tactical map is cool as well but I hope you guys do it better than Elite Dangerous did it. Theirs can definitely be improved.
No need for the varying distances between concentric circles. They should have even spacing every 50km so that players can properly see how far away a contact is with just a glance at the map.
The contact icons should indicate the direction of travel and facing of the contact. (markers should as well)
The plane altitude lines should be dashed when below the plane.
There should be an indication of radar range at the top/bottom of the sphere in the form of a vertical circle that shows where the limits are.

I also hope that Lua wizards will have access to the data that the tactical map uses so that they can build user-made tactical maps into their hud.

Again a time sink. I am not happy with this change. So, after my workday i should spend 4-6 hours (probably more) only for scanning the correct roid? I dont see this as a positive change

Salvage changes are cool.

Asteroids change are really oriented around carebears... Why people still need more no risk in PVP? Do you even listen NQ what we need and how people are full of ressources?

- No more discovered tab = nerf for piracy even if it's hard to find a roid with just a random first coords (can be in a circle of 14SU+)
- No more timed spawn + random tier of roid = a PVP player will have to randomly pick a roid, go for it and find sometimes just a basic one, without interest or content... How can you think it will be a good thing for us? It will just add more time lost to PVP gameplay, we REALLY need that thx!

Just check how miners and safezone players are happy, you give them a real free farm pass.

We need a good patch for PVP asap please.

https://www.du-killboard.com

This uses the honor system, if you are making KILLS and want your org listed message me. 

Join the back streets of Dual Universe - https://discord.gg/B3QSKTubpb
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Look what I got
I've got a jar of dirt

Hello,
 
I follow up on the discussions on this subject:
 
The changes in value of recent honeycombs are really appreciable.
 
The increase in the hit points of certain elements as well.
 
All of this provides a good basis for further balancing. Many of our claims in previous fis still remain up to date, such as the replacement of the cross section by a mechanic more in line with the game's DNA. Or the radar changes to increase the sight distances to adapt to the new speeds and also to prevent L weapons from continuing to destroy at max range XS / S ships.
 
Now that the reminder of the fundamentals is done. I would like to focus this topic on 1 single element :
 
Need to talk the " VENTING DURATION "

The problem right now is that we regularly see S-sized ships with L or M shields. And very rarely in S-sized.
I'm not talking about size XS shields which have practically the same use as a decorative element.

The larger size shields remain more interesting than their lower variant + a little voxel and an active use of venting.

But there is a mechanic that NQ can play on : the venting duration.

It is exactly the same duration as it is for a shield XS or a shield L. (100s in basic version)
In my opinion, it will be necessary to reduce this time for small shields.
An XS shield should be able to vent often and be vulnerable for less time than a large L shield.

 
This could lead to more regular risk-taking by fighter pilots when they think they have a safe window to recharge their shield during combat.
 
Also if they perform poorly, they risk getting hit and punished.
 
The most considerate could put a little voxel to leave room for some "error".
This will give the beginning of a "symbiosis" between the shield and the voxel armor during the combat phases which could become very rewarding for the pilot making the right choices at the right time.
 
What do you think ?

I'd add one thing that I miss a lot:

multicrew gameplay

For me it seems like it will be pretty easy to return the onboard mechanics in play, and also remove voxel-less meta:
Add shield bleed, even if it's very small percentage, it will drastically change pvp gameplay.

Hi, a new topic for resume some of our idea about PVP features in the future.

Wrecks
- add an element similar to the DSAT for them
- put them all in space
- add schematics in their storage, with a value that depends on the rarity of the wreck
This would be a cool first PVP approach for all players as well as an additional way to have content for the most experienced on the rarest wrecks

Asteroids
- delete T4 and T5 from the MUs on each planets/moons
- modify the spawn algorythm for dodge any PVP roid to spawn too close to the Safezone
- reduce their maximum spawn distance
- disable the possibility of create a station with a shield close to them
- allow imprisoning players who farm in jetpack with XS core and glass panel or give us GUNS
In order to restore the interest in asteroids and encourage people to interact with each other, whether through piracy or through group mining to protect/optimize themselves.

Alien core
- Increase the power of items requiring plasma
- Hide/protect ships docked to an alien core, or just on station, with a shield
- Less T5 in MU
- Scales the need for plasma in the schematics based on item size (example 1 for XS, 2 for S, 3 for M and 4 for L, and modify the production of plasma if needed)
This will add interest to Alien cores, preserve an important interest for asteroids by avoiding being the main source of T5
 
Piracy
- Bring back the boarding, the button feature work now, if people don't check their ship then it's their fault. (and the force field for counter boarding is so boring for dock/land)
- Rework the radar, add some range or be able to follow the signature of a ship or any other idea else than this 2SU max
- Delete the jammed zone, if people can see hauler going in space, PVP players can see pirates who hunt it or any other player who want help/warn/counter
- Need more reward for hunting mission hauler
- Go back on group missions and stop special missions (beta keys will end with the release and if you add more tool on pirates, big hauler will be hunted)
- Adds different icons/icons colors, allowing each player to set a reputation on an org or a player
- Add a right clic option on dynamic construct icon for wisp the pilot and allow players to talk (to find a deal, a ransom or a pass)

I tried to summarize some of my ideas as well as possible, if you have better or different ones do not hesitate.

I have not looked at the exact numbers, but increasing honeycomb EHP is something I have been asking for for a while, so I'm excited for this change. That said, please do not forget to increase the health of weapons smaller than L (and some other exterior elements)! They get one shot by the weakest viable weapon, small cannons. As long as this is the case, voxel tanking will not be that popular.

Interesting, we will have to calculate the impact of the voxel on certain types of ship, but currently the main concern in PVP is the cross section imho. The voxels must have minimal impact on the cross section to allow their use and see real designed PVP ships. Currently voxels/CCS ship = borg cube, or close to, and viable just in defense of alien core and still...
My first thought is that it will therefore have a too little impact/no impact on the current PVP.

But it's a good start.

Hello, Noveans,
 
This is NQ-Entropy here to talk about our upcoming honeycomb HP and mass rebalance.
 
We know that our current system doesn’t serve the game well and we want to improve it. We are changing the way that honeycomb masses work, specifically, we are detaching them from their base material mass and unifying honeycomb masses into categories. We will also change how honeycomb HP is calculated and rebalance resistances across the board.
We also want to invite your thoughts on the proposed changes. The honeycomb mass and hp system impacts almost every area of Dual Universe, from shipbuilding to piloting and PvP. There’ll be an image at the end outlining the details of our proposed changes and a feedback thread where we want to hear your thoughts.
 
Now, let’s dive into the details.
 
SEPARATING HONEYCOMB MASS FROM ITS BASE MATERIAL 
 
In the past, our baseline for the weight of our honeycomb materials was directly based on their base pure and product materials. While a calculation was made to transform it into “honeycomb mass”, it was a straight transformation. 
 
For example: currently, the unit mass for a liter of Pure aluminum is 2.7kg, making its honeycomb mass 27kg for 1m3 (1000L). If a material weighs 2.2kg, its honeycomb mass would be 22kg/1m3.
 
This will no longer be the case, and we will take some liberties when transforming pure and product materials into honeycomb. This will allow us a wider range of weights, with a better distribution of weights at all tiers.
 
While we are taking precautions, this will have an effect on existing constructs. There are certain materials that will relatively drastically change in weight, and that could have an effect on existing constructs. We are actively trying to match the new and old masses as closely as possible, but there will be some outliers. It's worth noting that some materials will also benefit from weight reductions.
 
UNIFYING HONEYCOMB MASSES
 
To summarize, each pure honeycomb tier can access four mass classes: very light, light, heavy, and very heavy. Each existing pure material will take one of these 4 mass slots per tier.
 
Each product honeycomb will have 2 weight classes: light and heavy, with the addition of a special very light honeycomb at tier 1 for plastic. Similarly, each existing product honeycomb will take a light or heavy slot per tier.
 
Finally, we will have building materials such as Concrete, Brick, Wood, Carbon-Fiber, Marble, and Luminescent. These will have exceptionally light weights and are designed to be used explicitly for building with minimal mass.
 
Currently, our proposed values go as low as 2-3kg/m3 for the lightest building honeycomb and up to 100kg/m3 for Very Heavy Pures, which are now the heaviest honeycomb in the game.
 
HEALTHPOINT CALCULATIONS
 
Pre-combat core stress and pre-Shields, we had linear honeycomb HP based on mass. At that time, the meta was huge blocks of indestructible gold capable of absorbing massive amounts of punishment. This was possible in high part due to our poor initial voxel balancing, which specifically made gold a significant outlier. In an effort to curb that strategy, we made a number of changes to voxel health, firstly drastically reducing honeycomb HP and eventually introducing CCS. By the time that was done, Shields had taken over, and voxels were sparsely used on PvP constructs. Additionally, we now also have to consider the new speed limitations in the mass vs HP choice when it comes to honeycomb.
 
Now, with unified masses that we can better control and with CCS to control the extreme upper end, we are bringing back linear calculation of honeycomb HP based on mass. Simply put, a multiplier is applied to the voxel mass, which defines the HP of that material.
 
This will allow players to select light and heavy materials without feeling like there is a bad tradeoff in regards to their mass and their HP.
 
Currently, the mass to HP multiplier is set to 45. For the aforementioned very heavy materials of 100kg/L, that will give you 4500 raw HP.
 
REBALANCING RESISTANCE
 
We are not fundamentally changing how resistances work but are adjusting their values across the board. Resistances are generally increasing to provide better absorption and superior effective HP compared to previous iterations.
 
Resistances will still go up on a tier-by-tier basis, with building materials having the lowest resistances, then pures, and finally, high-tier products, which will have the best resistances.
 
We paid attention to two numbers in particular: Effective Healthpoints and Effective Healthpoints per unit of mass.
 
First, we wanted effective health points to make sense. We wanted honeycomb bulkheads to be capable of absorbing real firepower, and we wanted honeycomb to be good enough to protect elements inside a construct. While the final values and balancing may not be perfect, this is currently something that is starting to work. We’ve run tests with honeycomb bulkheads about a meter thick, roughly representing the armor on a medium-sized ship, and it was more than capable of absorbing multiple hits from max talented L weapons and protecting the elements we had placed behind them. Only after a good amount of shots did holes appear and elements behind start being vulnerable.
 
We ran multiple tests and generally found that they aligned with our expectations. Lower EHP materials were relevant vs xs and s weaponry but rapidly fell to larger weapons, medium EHP honeycomb was relevant versus medium-sized weapons, while high EHP honeycomb was capable of taking hits from large weapons.
 
Secondly, we wanted an EHP/mass curve that made sense as you progress up the material tiers. As of right now, going up a tier of a pure or a product guarantees a superior EHP/mass ratio with high-tier products having the best ratio on offer. This should ensure that going up a tier and upgrading your construct to a superior material is never a bad choice.
 
Finally, a small note on Core Combat Stress. It is currently unchanged as the tests we made noted the new honeycomb values lined up well with the old CCS settings. In view of that it is also a case of not wanting to change too many parameters at once so that in case of further iterations, it is easier to identify issues for tweaking.
 
FEEDBACK
 
It’s important to us that we get this rebalance right. Honeycomb’s role in PvP has impacted players significantly from the beta’s start. These changes will also impact many other areas of gameplay such as shipbuilding by altering honeycomb mass. Before implementing these changes, we want to invite your thoughts, especially on the numbers. If you have opinions on how we’re rebalancing honeycomb, please share them with us in this forum thread.
 
Here is the full breakdown of the proposed changes:
 

 
We look forward to hearing from you, Noveans.
 
Until next time, thank you for your attention.
 
- NQ Entropy

I think the new value on voxels are nice !
The new speed systeme is also a good feature.
 
but the cross-section as reference for hit chances seems unchanged...
as long as this method stay, only ultra small nano ship (high G / low hit chances) will be played

now we have mainly ultra low cross-section S / M core in fight
since month voxels on pvp ships nerf so much your max-speed and capacity to pitch/yaw/roll
L core are only used to carry M / S ship on batteground
time to kill is also an issue actually with big L ship 100k voxels - 100m+ ccs in a fleet fight you can be done in a few minutes 
 
i keep in mind that dual universe best feature for me is voxel building  (with V.P.T it's actualy the best building game i have ever played)

So for more fun and to keep creativity as the most enjoying part of the game while you build (and use) PVP ships :

- nerf weapon damage by about 50%
- suppress cross section as a reference
- re-implement lock by core as it was at the beginning of beta
- keep weapon lock by core
- also lock shield by core
 
i think it won't be so difficult has all the change already exist or have existed in dual universe
 

@TobiwanKenobi
I really like your idea, but for me there should be the following basic classes of ships:
small and light fighters that are agile and hard to hit, and big and heavy battleships that can take a lot of hits.
  In this sense, your approach goes into the right direction. However, in my opinion, the battleships are also ships that should be crewed by a whole team and not just one person.  Unfortunately, I don't see in your suggestion how the multi-crew factor is taken into account properly. So for me it's going in the right direction, but it can't be the final approach.

@NQ-Entropy
L-cores are weak in the current pvp meta. I have an idea about how to make them more powerful(but not too powerful) while also adding some neat complexity to ship design in DU, and without taking away from the viability of S and M cores.
_____________________________________________________________

PROBLEMS:
1. Right now, having a light ship is valuable in pvp. Being light not only gives you good accel, it gives you a higher max speed. Having high accel and max speed allows you to withdraw and vent, run away, catch slower targets, dictate battlefield positioning, or just travel faster. L-cores are naturally much heavier, so they suffer here.
 
2. Being small is also important. Having smaller cross section means less enemy hit chance, which makes you harder to kill. Tiny S-cores with a M-shield can tank just as well or better than big L-shield armored L-cores. So again L-cores are penalized for having naturally larger cross section.
_____________________________________________________________

SOLUTION:
My idea is that NQ add a new mechanic that rewards having higher mass and cross section: Shield stability.

Shield stability: Higher construct mass and volume would make your shield tougher - a separate damage modifier that reduces incoming damage like resistances do.
_____________________________________________________________
 
RULES:
The mass and volume bonuses would be on separate curves, then added into one shield stability value, listed as a base value of 100% - a damage reduction multiplier of 1. High shield stability values might be 150% - a damage reduction multiplier of 0.666(33.33% damage reduction, which gives an effective hp bonus of +50%). Both curves would never allow shield stability to get anywhere near 200% (damage reduction multiplier of 0.5) so that a smaller shield could never achieve the same effective hp as a shield of one size larger. The mass and volume bonuses would be small at the low end of the curve. The mass and volume curves would have diminishing returns at the high end so that players can't just scale their shield stability to infinity. The floor of the mass bonus curve would start at the standard mass of a L-shield(125t). The floor of the volume bonus curve would start at the volume of a L-shield(646m³). The bonus scale would be the same for all shield sizes. L shields on heavy/voluminous ships would get good value, but standard-sized S and XS ships would get little to no value from this system, since they would have to achieve extreme masses (in the multi-kiloton range) and volumes to achieve high shield stability values. Shield stability would be calculated dynamically, so it would decrease throughout a fight as fuel is burned, ammo is used, and especially as voxel is destroyed. _____________________________________________________________
 
EXAMPLE VALUES: (obviously NQ would have to decide the proper curves and bonuses)
A ship with 5,000t mass and 3000m² x 500m² x 1500m² cross section values (a very big boi) gets a shield stability value of 147% - a shield damage reduction multiplier of 0.68. With this shield stability value, a Rare Active Shield Generator L now gets an effective hp increase from 10,000,000 to 14,700,000. So it has significantly stronger shields along with a large amount of CCS from voxel. It's now a tough nut to crack for S ships, but likely very slow and easier to hit for L and M guns.

EXAMPLE GRAPH:

 
_____________________________________________________________

NOTES:
This mechanic would add more choice and variety to pvp ship design. It would allow builders to make more stylized designs that normally would be too voluminous. L-cores would be good at killing other L-cores since their guns would actually do better dps to large targets than smaller guns would. They would target each other in fleet fights. The shield stability mechanic would also make haulers naturally tougher to kill, giving them a better chance to fend off pirates and survive. This would also indirectly add value to voxel, as the mass of additional voxel would simultaneously increase effective shield hp. Heavy voxels especially might become more attractive.  
CONCLUSION:
This shield stability mechanic isn't meant to make L-cores into invincible dreadnaughts, but to give them a solid bonus to survivability in the same way that small ships get bonuses - just reversed. My hope is that it would add potential to L-core multi-crew capital ships in stationary fleet fights. These tough, heavy, expensive ships would still be a liability in cost to build and operate, as they should be, but if properly supported and utilized they could measure up to the current light/fast S-core and M-core meta.

I've tried to think through many scenarios with this mechanic to try to find problems, but I'm only one brain. Does anyone see any issues?

i totaly agree with Variety. Without Risk & Reward and more destruction the market will never be healthy.

Ore
Currently Dual Universe has far to much ore. You can look at many reasons to as why this is the case such as lower population, large amount of alts, picking up and placing auto miners to obtain high tier ore to mine (nq really?). My thoughts are it's a combination of a few problems. Population, active vs passive game play & solo/safety vs team work.
 
Currently auto miners allow a single player to obtain far more resources then any average player would use, even if said player used all the ore which is simply unlikely the ore ends up in products which floods the market. Auto miners are further abused by alts which will exist as long as there is profit. The end result is either the profit is so low no one uses alts = Fail (due to tax) or Its so valuable people abuse alts and get an unfair advantage that cannot be taken away from them (lets be real, atmo pvp isn't coming any time soon) = also a fail.
 
My suggestion is to dice game play up unto tiers and giving different types of game play to obtain ore to encourage active game, team play and trading.
 
Auto miners
I would suggest that all t4/t5 is removed from auto miners all together, having unlimited safe access to the highest tier ore in the game makes no sense to begin with.
Every tile should offer a healthy amount of each t1 ore. Doing so allows new players to arrive on any planet and allow them to get t1 voxels, dabble in factory and play the casual play style solo style many people want to enjoy without being shafted by things happening in the universe. I believe t2 should be in healthy amounts mostly for space fuel with t3 having a lesser amount for warp cells but not an unlimited overflow as we're having right now (if every person warps every ship for any reason there's a problem)
 
Once a player has auto miners placed, they've dabbled in building, mined some safe zone asteroids (active game play!!!), factory, bought a warp drive and experienced most aspects of the game they have a decision to make. Join an org or stay solo. If a player decides they want to remain solo they can create/barter for any luxury items they want and continue to play without  changes to dual universe stopping their game play.
 
Lets move onto the section that every solo player aspiring to be the richest person in the universe is going to HATE.
 
T4/T5 & Asteroids. 
 
t1/t2 should be everywhere in bigger nodes/less popcorn nodes across all asteroids both in the safe zone and the PVP zone. This will allow new players to aim for the stars and use active game play to obtain resources faster then someone would passively (as it should be??). It's very important that players not only have an active aspect to mining but it must be extremely fast compared to auto miners to devalue alts and to encourage game play/getting people into space.
 
With the nerf to t3 from auto miners the t3 should be more easily obtainable from t2+ asteroids. While I do believe there should be some in the safe zone asteroids it should never come to the point in which people warp everything every time for obvious reasons. Warp cells should not be rare but nor should they be everywhere.
 
With t4/t5 being removed from auto miners the amount of t4/t5 asteroids needs to be increased as well as more ore being in each asteroids via more nodes and larger nodes. 
 
My logic If t4 is easily obtained people simply say rare elements are good enough and have no desire to obtain exotic items completely devaluing the hardest tier of ore to obtain as well as plasma which will effectively kill alien cores just as auto miners has done to asteroids. The assumption that the population will be larger post launch so the ore per person playing is lower is a valid argument but the argument that the difference between t4/t5 is so small there's no point to attacking alien cores must be considered. The cost % and power % increase between rares to exotics makes no sense, 1000% increase for a 10% increase at best? If you used the guns in pve for an unlimited amount of time making them extremely valuable I can see this work but in dual universe in which you are constantly risking elements to extremely unpredictable battles makes it far to costly. 
 
One could make the argument and say exotics should only be slightly better and more available, those people making this argument only care about getting cheap powerful elements and do not care about the org/alliance aspect of alien cores. A person may also make the argument that legion controls all the cores but this argument also falls flat on its face looking ahead to launch. If a single alliance controls every pvp point in the game that's a failure on nqs balancing side and has nothing to do with some elements being slightly better. 
 
End point. I believe auto miners should provide ample t1 and supplement t2/t3 instead supply all the ore in the game you need removing active game play. As with any other game the highest tiers of elements in the game (t4/t5) should require engagement in the community or have successful people trade for it.  
 
Edit : High tier asteroids must not spawn near the safe zone boarder!
 

The main thing is the fight itself and all that it required in logistics on both sides, the final count doesn't matter as long as everyone had fun and people learned about PVP.
 
 

NQ consider please to increase rewards for missions because you nerfed income strongly for Organisations and Single players to hinder alt abuse.
 
Suggestions:
 
 1. Increase reward for single mission considerably 
 
 2. Or a player could carry now 3 or 4 mission packages 
 
 3. Or player can carry as many mission packages ship can fit
   (but mission packages are to be seen for other players in pvp space this would force to work in groups and have escorts bringing back team gameplay)
 
There are almost no mission runs right now because most players will not risk a ship that cost between 50 Mil and 100 Mil to fly over 5 hours to gain just 7 Mil. 
 

I hope they will adjust the Base Shield Generator behaviour, that not again the Combat timer of the Alien core will unnecassery get extended for multiple hours.

This was really Fun , Even with the broken parts that we had to deal with. But I think Its also to say a Thank you to NQ as the server really held up well during the battle with minimal lag problems.

Glad everyone enjoyed it, between Deadrank, myself, with help from Zer0krypt and Mukkbarovian a lot of time was spent crafting a strategy (including the spoof attack and hitting alien cores incessantly), building ships (for those new to PvP and the dummy ships-jettisoned via lua Dead wrote), organizing the participants (only 75% of those who committed actual made it), and detailing the timeline of where we needed to be when to hit the 20 min alien core timer window. We almost missed the time due to a construct not parked properly in the carrier preventing warp, but made it all work. Kudos to everyone on both sides, was a blast!  **Also thx to the orgs that supplemented the $1B+ Corrrino [CRN] spent!

Some of the most fun I have ever had in DU. Been waiting for something like that for years. GF to everybody involved hope we get a lot more like that 

well, despite what people outside of the PvP crowd think, this was actually hella fun!
The bugged radars and transponders frustratingly made this incredibly difficult and challenging to see who the enemy is, and who might just one of your allies.

We had ships from S to M to L sizes all represented, from the small cross section fast strike crafts to the larger L core battleships. We saw smaller ships trying to utilize their higher max speeds and we saw the bigger ships using their voxel to tank. It was a slug-fest the kind we haven't seen before and that brought excitement with it among us PvPers.

Personally I chalked up 8 kills (2x S, 5x M, 1x L) that I either partook in or even decidedly have gotten myself, but among the stress and hectic of the battle I couldn't save the positions on several of the wrecks from those that tried to flee the engagement zone but did not make it. I am sure there are still lots of wrecks like this, spread round the Alien Core.
 
We had up to 150 constructs, cored or not, directly around the Alien Core battle zone. With all the fighting slightly around it, it might be yet more that were directly engaged in the fight.