merihimRefin

Except historically a game wipe has never brought in any substantial amount of players. You're saying that they'll see a 2000% increase in player base when they add the "1.0" and "Release" moniker to the game and do a wipe?

New World, for example- lost 80% of it's player base when going from Beta(and wiping) to release. It has since lost a further 80%.... and that is without a monthly subscription. https://steamdb.info/app/1063730/graphs/ The other difference, is with DU the player base largely makes the "game content"... paired with it being subscription based. it's a unique balance no other game has, and there is nothing to say wiping that content in the game would bring in more players.

If you have any data to back up your claims, I'd love to see it! Math is nice, big numbers are big, but numbers mean nothing without data to give them meaning.
 

why not permaban those insulting and trolling kiddies supporting a wipe? Seems like you have'nt yet learned how discussions work in your preschool.

If they decide to do a full wipe they brake what they promised - i never would have invested hundreds of euros und hundreds of hours in a so called "persistent" game, that may be wiped. It's a not funny definition of "persistent".

A wipe would solve none of the stated (presumed) issues:
It would not make the new player experience better.  Taking undeserved money away some some cheats by taking it away from everybody will not solve the economy/markets Removing schematics will not solve market issues (if there are any in the first place). (my more detailed arguments here)
 
If NQ does not change underlying dynamics in the game we are just back in the same situation 1 or 2 years later.

The reason I would quit the game for good if they wipe is not just that I loose 2 years of work, but that I would not trust NQ not to just grab the 'wipe' stick again whenever they feel like they want a clean database. So whatever time you invest is lost repeatedly - unless you limit yourself to just being a ship builder, because they will probably get their BP's back. But all the city builders, industrialist and miners will be screwed over every 1 or 2 years.

Sure they will promise never to wipe again. But they have made that promise before.
 

(1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..."
(4:45) "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc
(58:26) "there would be a gold rush to get back to whatever you wanted. That's actually not a good idea. We decided that we would rather not do that. There has already been a lot of investment made by a lot of people to terraform very very substantial parts of the planets... It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" And that was just on a terrain wipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg
(15:53) "Everything you build is forever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD00-V_LKog
(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

Fecking PvP centered changes again. Why does everything have to revolve around and get shat on because of PvP?
 

Wipe and I'm done

Agreed with both points.
 
NQ has had multiple opportunities and justification to test backup/rollback mechanisms due to exploits - and chose not to. They were either scared their system wouldn't work or there would be more fallout due a day of rollback than it was worth. Either way, they're unable or afraid to use these mechanisms and here we are.... wiping to "solve issues". Not a good sign. What happens at the next major exploit -- and there will be one, as there are in every MMO. I cannot fathom how we'll NOT be right back to where we're at today within a year. And as soon as that happens, another chunk of the player base gets fed up and quits.

Yeah, wipe is very demotivating. Any kind of it. I will quit, when you do it. 
The pros and contras in your post are by far not all arguments for the suggested solutions. 
And...if you wipe, that is the ultimative proof that NQ is not trustworthy. 

Yeah, wipe is very demotivating. Any kind of it. I will quit, when you do it. 
The pros and contras in your post are by far not all arguments for the suggested solutions. 
And...if you wipe, that is the ultimative proof that NQ is not trustworthy. 

I am against to a full wipe or half wipe or quarter wipe or 12% wipe and so on. Reasons?

Reason 1:  You say that new players are in disatvantage because there are well established players and huge orgs which have bilions of quanta.
Guess what?  
that will be case in max 1 year after the wipe and the situation will be exactly the same like now with huge orgs and fresh starters, what you gonna do? wipe again because big ones have advatanges? 
 
Reason 2: You say that the game is unbalance. 
Guess what?
this game will continuously evolving ( if it stays alive) and more larger feature will come with time. Those huge feature will cast imbalances in other places of the game. You will have to learn how to make changes on the go to the game WITHOUT wiping every now and then 
 

The entire concept of equalizing new and old players is fundamentally flawed. Having a fresh start where everybody is starting a zero means literally nothing in the span of the game, and there will always be new players joining that are behind older more veteran players.

Having PAID for my sub since the start of Beta under the impression that there wasn't going to be a wipe, based on what you told us. I want my skill points and my BPs. I paid for that stuff. 

Why is any different than any other MMO today, take Lost Ark, or EVE Online, Star Citizen just to name a few,  if you start one of those games today do they give a DAMN that your a NEW PLAYER I think NOT. And guess what there will be player that are bigger and better than you on day one. So this idea that getting into a game right now requires some magical wipe so we are all EQUAL is a stupid and unrealistic idea and not actually done in practice. 

I just ended up getting auto-charged for $40 for two accounts at x3 months each. If you wipe, will I get a refund of all my money spent during beta? Would be a non-issue if this wasn't a monthly sub persistent universe/mmo

I paid monthly for a persistent game. Are you telling me that was a lie?

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

I agree with most people here, so I will just add to some points instead of writing everything in detail...
 
A very important question: What becomes of the thoramine? The Thoramin should not disappear under any circumstances. That there will be other ways to get to it later is okay, but the current one must not be disbanded. (Is that already discussed @NQ-Wanderer?)
 
Talent Points: These should be saved or if necessary reduced by the same percentage for all. It should not be the case that all players start with the same points. That would be more than unfair.
 
The beta was intended as a soft release and only partial wipes should take place if absolutely necessary. That was YOUR PROMISE, so if you break that promise and do a full reset, many will demand refunds. You cannot afford that financially.
 
Including blueprints from Alpha/Beta in the finished game was a promise from the beginning, so this should be fulfilled too.
 
I wonder what happened to my missing blueprints from the PreAlpha? There was the first space station built by players... 
 
So my conclusion: 
A partial wipe is possible. A full wipe is not. (Unless you want to kill DU)
 
Furthermore, I fully agree with Kurock.
 
 

Game launch - that's generally the time when access is given to the general public.
Does the general public have access to DU? Yes - I'm a paying customer since May 2021.

The "game launch" you speak of is just a marketing ploy. It is not the grand opening of the flood gates to the millions of eagerly awaiting enthusiasts who did not manage to secure a limited spot in a closed beta. In other words, few players are waiting to jump to DU when it "launches".

For Dual Universe the beginning of the "Open beta" was its true and only Game Launch.

So for the people playing DU right now this "game launch" has as much relevance as does the rain over the ocean for the fishes swimming in it.
My conservative estimate for a split between current players and new players post-"launch" is 90/10. As in 90% of players will be the existing players.

When you see it that way, you'll understand that screwing 90% of the user-base for the expectations of the 10% will be a stake through NQ's heart.

To be honest, when the game is "released" the only thing that will keep me in the game is the kickstarter DAC's.
Simply because there is NOTHING currently in this game that I would pay a subscription to play. So in effect NQ will have as long as my DAC's last, to improve the game enough for actual subscription play.
 
And if there is a wipe, then I won't even bother using the DAC's..

I've seen this statement often, please explain.
 
Because from my perspective, if there's a wipe-wipe, I won't be returning. Actually, I would strongly advise people against playing DU if it happens.
 
A wipe-wipe, won't change anything for 99% of the players in a month. As the same dedicated players with too much time, corp players, RL money, etc. will be in the same top positions. New players won't have a chance in hell to compete with that. In the mean time, getting started in DU for new players will be HELL! As nothing will be available that's player made, at a low price (as it is now). So leaving Haven/Sanctuary will be virtually impossible as people can't build or buy a territory control unit...
 
Look, I loved getting started with beta, but it was a completely different game then. For one, Schematics, for another planet mining or surface ore respawning. You looked at what some of the Alpha players where doing in the first weeks/months and you got inspired. Doing that again under the current restrictions wouldn't be much fun (for me) imho...
 
As for current new player being left behind? They can sell their ore, and it will be bought. Just look at the current ore sell prices, see many Sanctuary sell orders or small sell orders? Would certain people have the quanta to buy that from new players if there is a wipe-wipe? No. New players can/could often pick up nice BPCs from builder characters like Hagbard, would the be able to now? No! Because Hagbard can't produce a dispenser after the wipe-wipe, he wouldn't even be able to buy one...
 
So new players wouldn't be able to get the much wanted resources like specific tiles with ore, that's just for the big dedicated corps. Hell, 99% of the current players wouldn't be able to get to them either, unless you are a highly placed person in one of the big dedicated corps. It didn't happen with the last landwipe, it won't suddenly happen now. Scanning for a new player sounds like a good way to get started, but how exactly would you get that scanner? Those Schematics are expensive! No big corp would sell their scanners before they are done scanning themselves...
 
And if you think that there will be no new player due to the 'inequality', what would happen to new players six months down the road, a year, two years? The only similar MMO i'm familiar with that has a similar concept (of persistence) is EVE Online. When I started EVE in 2005, I was already late to the party by two years. Large corps ruled Null Sec, many have risen and fallen since then, I have never been part of that (by choice). What I have done in the last 17 years (often many years off) is control certain items on the markets or even the market in a certain section of space. The big strength of EVE is imho that even if I've taken off years, I can always get back and pick up my chars where I left them. Doing new things, trying the old things in a different environment, etc. NQ has already pretty much said that if no subscription, then everything not on Sanctuary (and I expect Haven) will go POOF!(tm) eventually. The problem is that people are not trusting NQ enough at the moment that even the Sanctuary/Haven space will be save from deletion (eventually), people are not trusting NQ because they might wipe-wipe again. There goes the whole persistence concept...

And after a year has passed another wipe? I don't get it - players which enter a game at a random point in time allways will be behind those who have been playing it before them. This game is meant to be a persistent and evolving sandbox. When you subscribe to EVE today you are behind people playing it for 19+ years.
No. I'm still very interested in playing this game, Only the uncertainty regarding a possible wipe is currently keeping me from pursuing several of my open projects further.
If they gonna wipe i'm done with this game, allready canceled the automatic subscription prolonging.

The whole concept of DU + subscriptions makes it so that a wipe must be avoided at all cost, and only used as a last resort when everything else has failed. It is that simple, really it is.
 
I.e. The only real asset in this game that keeps players logging in, is the constructs. Be it PvP ships or large base constructs, those constructs are the only thing that truly represent value to the players.
 
And I have yet to hear a single reasonable argument for a wipe, that would not be better addressed by a more gentle "soft wipe" intervention from NQ. Like they already did with the landscape reset needed to change the voxel planet coordinate system.
 
And why did they spend all that time and effort trying to minimize player impact including using NQ resources to help dig out constructs, if there is a full wipe planned for the near future?

Seriously, from a potential lore perspective, it makes no sense to call them that at this point in the game. I mean, realizing that other life (and a technologically advanced civilization at that!) is not just a game changer for humanity, but for a game. I think it would be better suited as a post-launch expansion/content reveal. There's no lore in this game really, and unlocking the mysteries of an alien civilization is something that deserves to be expanded upon and even supported with in game events. I just think it's too soon to toss in there for the sake of doing it.
 
Also, are they just one core? Why not anomalies, instead? Or wormholes. Pick your your technobabble poison on that one. That way, you could give bonuses to any static core placed within proximity (various boosts to industry placed on cores there would be a start that could further tie industry/PvP). This could encourage more expansive building and inter-org cooperation in those zones, not one core to rule them all in a certain space. Aaaand you could hold off on the whole extraterrestrial thing to make it more meaningful.
 
tl;dr ALIEN cores? lol wut? Slow yer roll.

Not to mention that the new player experience has been ass since forever. Frankly, the only real reason recent players have stuck around this long is because the existing community was there to pick up the slack - teaching newbies, giving them ships, missions, materials, and direction that the tutorial failed to sufficiently provide.
 
I think if they wipe, they lose all of that and more. Probably worse, as disgruntled players and content creators will be warning new players away instead of welcoming them. And I say that as someone who loves a good launch day - it would be a huge mistake.

Please do not wipe. Release with a new star system. Give existing players Helios access as we have today with no immediate way to get to the new system. Start new players on the new system (maybe let them pick in case they have friends in Helios). Provide a star gate type tech with a 90-180 day total craft time. Connect the systems months after release.