Doombad

Yea and you will quit soon after for one reason or another. While wrong, exploits had/has virtually no impact on other players. It’s just an excuse.

Things are CHEAPER than what they were during the period of ore inflation.
 
Your last paragraph is why people don’t want the wipe.

For someone with a whole two posts under their belt, that some heavy-hitting hyperbole you're using there.
 
"Insane amount of exploits..."  
-- There were probably half a dozen that had any lasting impact. Some directly lead to comments by NQ not to exploit or face consequences... like the unlimited range container bug and the Market Place 15 disassembly leading to players being banned... Though I believe the exact exploit you're likely talking about were the 1ℏ blueprints (slight exaggeration)... IIRC Someone bought a dozen or so warp beacon, AGG and Warp drive bloops and auctioned them off at half the market rate or something and got billions of ℏ in a few days. Sure that's unfair, but I don't know if he or she still even plays any more.

The solar system is too big as it is, the chance of him or her ruining my game is minimal to non-existent.
 
"B: Wipe and massively expand the player base."
-- And your source for this sweet summer nugget is?

Sorry, sounds like a case of FIMO (Fear I Missed Out).

"There were an insane amount of exploits that let people get to endgame within the first week, so I stopped playing. My friends and I check in on the game periodically to see if it will wipe. If it does, we'll play, if not, we won't. Simple as that. I know a lot of other people in the situation."
 
 
As I said it's a matter of public perception... I reckon slightly short of half the population will need to see to see this terrible mistake enacted, and nothing short of witnessing the trainwreck will put to rest their fixed ideas. FFS the guy literally admits he threw the towel within weeks.
 
The biggest irony about it how they will litter again, once they drop the game like a hot potato, so in the "long" run a wipe won't even cleanup old trash like blaze loves to tell us.

That's the thing I don't get when people say we must wipe to balance the game.
 
Whatever gains some players may have gotten using exploits have almost no impact on the game what so ever.
Single players with "too much" money will not be able to properly utilize the resources alone during PvP, and orgs are making more money then they know what to do with without exploits. So exactly what is the problem?
 
And most people complain that market prices are to low, so there does no seem to be a problem with whales causing market inflation either.

Yea and you will quit soon after for one reason or another. While wrong, exploits had/has virtually no impact on other players. It’s just an excuse.

Yea and you will quit soon after for one reason or another. While wrong, exploits had/has virtually no impact on other players. It’s just an excuse.

Yea and you will quit soon after for one reason or another. While wrong, exploits had/has virtually no impact on other players. It’s just an excuse.

At this point many days after the initial post, I'm sure we could all agree that we would love NQ to make a decision. 
 

There still isn't a solid reason presented to do a wipe at all.

In games such as 7 Days To Die and Space Engineers wipes happen regularly, because in case of 7D2D the POI needed for quests get destroyed by players, and in Space Engineers the server slows down to a crawl as more constructs populate the world. The reason I've switched to DU is to get the benefits of not having to wipe for technical reasons. And there are still no good technical reason to do a wipe. All other reasons presented are social in nature and at best are unproven theories.

Exploits - people acquired undue wealth. Not a good reason to wipe, first of all because that would punish the 99% for the actions of the 1%. And second, the undue wealth has minimal negative affect on players in DU. There are plenty of rightfully rich guys, and that's a boon to the game - with large structures, tons of cheap elements for sale and newb friendly help and donations. You can argue that some PvPer are awash with T5 elements, but since when was PvP integral or even required in DU?

Level field - everyone wants to start level. Not a good reason to wipe, because that would punish 90% of current players for the (deemed - not proven) wishes of the 10% incoming players. We can argue about how many genuinely new players will join after "release", but seeing how the game was public and paid for 2 years now, the actual release has happened. Its doubtful that there will actually be many new players joining and staying once the official "release" is achieved.

Functional and feature changes - people seem to believe that when a game changes slightly its grounds for starting anew. Maybe in a simple game that would be true, but for a game like DU the start-up costs of getting established are immense, that's why players who are established would rather block changes than agree to redo everything again.

The wipe argument is between those who don't have much to lose, or don't mind losing even the immense riches against those who wouldn't want to repeat the arduous process to get to the same place they are in now. Its not a reason for a wipe, its a coping mechanism in the view of an impeding wipe, for which we still don't have an established technical reason.

If this wipe happens for the empty and inconsequential reasons above, then it is the death of the persistent universe and a qualitative shift in developer <-> players relations.

P.S. Changes that most have asked for (or at-least agreed with) like market clean up and tile expiration and abandonment have resulted in the current emptiness of DU. Be careful of what you wish for, as I feel that DU will be so empty if a wipe happens, we'll be lucky to see even a 1/10th of the current player base two months after that. Players are already leaving in-mass because of the whole wipe topic hanging up in the air.
 
Every second that NQ wastes "meditating" on what to do next is a bleeding wound of fleeing disenfranchised players.

Real players do not agree with wipe. Do not conclude such nonsense.

hi, here would be my question to NQ team:
You write: - A complete wipe (except blueprints) with solutions to allow old players to quickly rebuild their favorite constructs through various means.
 
This would favor only builders, the people who made industry and grind the quantas for schematics are not considered. This is an unfair advantage for master builders. Also people who have made advanced Lua scripts will be favored since they have local backups.
 
For me there are only two options, complete wipe including blueprints (where Lua scripters still have a big advantage) or no wipe.
 
One more note from me, I joined DU at the end of the alpha because I didn't want to play alphas anymore and where did I end up, in an alpha, I joined because they promised a persistent world. As an entrepreneur you should make final decisions and not hesitate, then the customers know where they stand.
 

I don't really disagree with any of this, or anything Blaze said per-se (I could probably pick at points but in general they're right).  And I get the frustration, I'm frustrated too and as I said I've certainly posted this sort of doom-and-gloom type of stuff myself.  It's just that all the negativity is wearing me out and I think making sure we try to add a suggestion or at least something positive along with the griping would be a good habit to get into.
 
After all, if we convince NQ that they have irredeemably messed it up and there's no way back they might as well just shut the whole thing off now right?  And I don't think any of us want that, and that in itself should tell us that any mistakes which are made are not really irredeemable because *we are all still here talking about it*.
 
We all know what the mistakes were and stating the obvious doesn't really move anything forward does it?

I think the benefits for the early players you have listed are quite reasonable and would go a long way to giving veteran players a boost as it would allow them to move away from the safe zone early and rebuild their empires either solo or as a group without too heavily impacting the disparity between new and old players.

If they are selling to and/or marketing to anyone in Germany they are subject to their consumer protection laws, as they are subject to US consumer production laws about false advertisement/etc as well. I not sure about its Germany counterpart, but the FTC has connections to most partner nations and does aggressively go after anyone if it effects a US citizen.

Nobody will argue against DU needing more new players.
 
But what we are questioning is how wise it for NQ to burn bridges with veteran players and generate even more negativity, just to try and increase the chance of getting more new players to join in the short run.
 
And some of us worry that this will actually hurt NQ in the long run, since the game is not in a state that will be able to keep the new players for long. So what is left when NQ has angered the veterans and is unable to keep new players interested at the same time?
 
To me this has a lot of similarities with 0.23, where the idea behind it wasn't necessarily bad. But is was so badly executed, that it hurt the game much more then it improved it and never fully recovered afterwards.

I think this is a good topic. What are we to do until wipe? What's the point in playing right now until we know what will happen? 
 
Wipe or no wipe, NQ really messed this up.

Nothing is equal, those who put money/time into the game should be rewarded and not have what they payed for taken away from them for some idealist dream that "everyone is going to be equal now" No, you wont be equal, the whales will whale and get their mission trains going again. The "nerf" only made it so they just need more accounts so they can gather more of the same mission and pay people to run more than one train at a time. There will be multi-billionaires in weeks, and that has no real effect on you. Aside from some people who don't actually know how to manipulate the market, we haven't seen anything drastic come from these "exploiters" as most of the people who did it earlyish on don't even play the game anymore. Instead of talking about a wipe, we need to talk about getting a real game loop that's going to people in the game past 2-3 months. Betting on killing off your "hardcore" player base to get some fly-by-night subscribers isn't going to be a good look when those vets blast the game on every forum about them not keeping any single promise they have made. The kickstarter backers haven't been made whole, the alpha backers and very early beta backers who were told, no matter what happens, we would keep our constructs and the things we earned/created in game, are getting a kick in the nuts. If it takes killing your player base to try to attract people who have already moved on to other games (those that left pre .23) then, you might want to look at another path forward. Baiting people into trying to side with you with slated dev articles that show favoritism to any/all wipes and the removal of schematics is pretty low. 
 
TL;DR - NQ needs to make good on their promises to the people who put time/money into the game and look for a way to keep any new players from just being a part of what will likely be a very high churn rate.

This is what they are struggling with:

I'd argue it was stabilizing and the churn was improving. The talk of wipe and the sour taste NQ has left... may have had an affect on that, IDK- haven't been on a lot lately to see numbers, though https://mmo-population.com/r/dualuniverse/ shows it as it's lowest peek of players yet. There was a lot of positive buzz in my group about DU and the "comeback" it was starting to make.... it was cool to see.

IDK, it's been nice to not be on the rollercoaster for a couple weeks. Haven't quit DU, but am taking a welcomed break till they decide what they want to do for wipe/launch coming up. I really hope NQ can sort things out and not kill their game before it's released.

Well, i already canceled my subscriptions, and when a wipe happens i never return. It's a matter of trust. A company that does'nt keep their promises is not trustworthy - i'll spend my money elsewhere.
 
And by the way - a dissatisfied customer spreads the word far more than one who is satisfied - this whole thing will damage the reputation of NQ far more than they may think.
 

You can simply call it : The Great Robbery 

They quit once, they will quit a gain. DU is still the same game with some improvements. 

One second while I get 100 alt accounts created so I can bring 5,000 items with me. Bringing SP would negate the main reason for a wipe, which would be to attract new players to a fresh even world. 
 
However I dont think there should be a wipe in the first place. No reason for it. Economy is not so broken that a wipe will make everything great again. New players are not going to flock to the game because its a fresh wipe. If players only joined fresh games eve would have died out long ago. 

I have held back on my thoughts on this as a statement but this is how I feel. 
Unfortunately we are playing a Beta game. the developers did say there wouldn't be a wipe after alpha and there have been leaks and loose statements about a potential wipe since then. This has caused more harm than good. Personally what I would like to see is a very direct statement when its time. either we are not going to do a wipe or we are  and this is how. then list the reasons why technical reasons not social and List how this will help the game in the future. 
 
we all know sometimes in development wipes are important and have to happen. Some times when the devs them selves do not particularly want it to happen. while they are not public I know all of the devs do play the game and have invested leisure time into the game. Also I know the NQ staff are personally vested in the future of the game and its success as they rely on it for income and providing for themselves and their families. 
 
I do not think the developers want to wipe. If they did WANT to wipe it would have been a very clear statement from the beginning.  they would not have invested the time to help us save cores and dig out structures. Or give away warp beacons as rewards for events. While there has been post about pros and cons on wiping their actions  in game have shown that they want to world we have built to continue on. 
 
I think wiping for the reason of player balance is not a good idea. There will always be player balance issues. You will always have new players who have to catch up and old players who seem to own the stars. Its part of an on going universe. the difference is that in DU you have a community of people who want to help new players. Streamers who are here to support the game and help build up the player base. I think personally a wipe would hurt that. 
 
One of the biggest draws to du for new players is the creativity and seeing the things people have built and done in game. 
but to wipe because some players have to much is not a good reason. Every game has those who have more time and drive. Who will always do well. there will always be things that are exploitable.
 
Utilize those who have in game to help the game at launch. the existing server cleaning system is going to clear a lot of content when the server goes live due to players not paying for beta and alpha accounts monthly.  Let that aspect of the server do its job. That just provides more content for players. 

We as a community have to stop jumping onto what ever story we hear. Have a little faith in the NQ staff. Im not trying to fan boy them. But at the end of the day we have to realize. This is fun time for us. Its work for them. This represents their income and life. The last thing they want to do is to harm that. The developers are on our side. but first they are on the games side. And even though we might not like their actions at times. We have to acknowledge they will only do whats best for the game and company.  And if there is a wipe. In a few years it will be like it never happened. 
 
We will all be laughing about the stupid crap we did during beta while the nubs are looking confused