Warlander

Honestly I think that the Talent Tree Branches in mining / inventory need to be added to the HP tree as it belongs there since it deals with hp and healing. I also think that the HP Talent Tree needs to be changed to actually reduce the number of HP not increase it and instead go into resistences per ore type and tier rather than just into element types.
 
So that you can:
Reduce repairs by reducing HP on items or metals Increase Resistances rather than HP Repair faster Repair more per tick with technician skills to make it not take like 20-100KL to heal a ship Ship Mounted repair systems that just use voxels and repair all damages and broken parts and replace fully broken parts as soon 1 by 1 and being able to set priority to replacing parts then healing broken parts, or just repairing damaged parts in any order or to skip non essential items like plants or furnature until last. Along with restoring voxels or honeycombs back to blueprint condition. Right now the whole system is unnecessary, long, boring, overly expensive, and it needs to be streamlined
 
Right now we have a system with destructive elements in which the cost of scrap to repair a part once is actually more than it costs in most situations to just flat out replace the part every time it breaks or that you could buy three or more actual parts then the cost of the scap for 3 repairs. Its broken and it needs to be seriously changed and streamlined along with the HP Talent Tree.
 
Not to mention there is no need to require like 12-16 wings to fly a ship of M/L+ size. Its overkill and it just shows how weak the skills are. Does anyone remember the last spaceship they saw that looked like a porcupine because it wouldnt fly? Or just sci-fi ships in general that are large but have little or no wings at all? It honestly take away from most of they style choices or the fact that you cant just get XL/XXL/XXL parts tht first tht cont require 50 stabilizers or links to effectively fly with minimal item bloat requirements.
 
 

You know...
 
Honestly with as much customization and boosters all other people get from their put down bonuses along with talent trees why are we stuck with basic standard issue tools everyone gets when they start the game?
 
Like seriously why is there no XS, S, M, L, XL, etc versions of the mining tool with basic, advanced, rare, rediculous, and ultra rediculous expanded versions? Why cant we strap parts to a mining tool in some micro core system thats kick ass and powerful but breaks down the more you use the high performance mining tool.
 
That would be awesome if there was like battery driven lazer mining tools that just mealt rock like nobodies business but requires some form of battery like gas for piloting to opperate. Or drill bits that target specific ore better or provide miners with put down perk talents ore size XS-XL and Basic - Ultra rediculouls expanded sifting equipment, scanners, teraforming shapes, and red tape associated with mining like some kind of container range extension transponder that all runs of batteries, gas, or hell rocket fuel perhaps.
 
It would also be awesome if there was some kind of mining exoseleton that allowed you to carry more weight or to expand your nanopack into a large or having other larger mining mech type suits that start at current size and scale up to perhaps some kind of 20ft mining mech or crawler of some sort. I would love to see large tank treads or dynamic core mount industrial mining equipment. But either mining mechs with different part impliments as well as some kind of military variant and also a moble industry versions for repair bots or field 3d fabrication machine or a suit that makes nanocrafting more efficient. Depending on the size XS, S, M, L, XL versions should allow someone to put larger containers, engines, jump jets, weapons, tools, reactors, repair drones, etc.
 
I dont know how many times I wish I had some kind of tank treds to move my ship mining after they neutered the maneuver tool. It used to be the only way to really mine with our pilot walking the ship and our miners working in tandem. But it would be nice if they had tank treds that were more efficient then hovers but allowed you to move across the ground more efficiently. Perhaps some kind of large tires or something would work too if you could just strap the tires to the side of a container with perhaps a steering tire that needs to not be obstricted with like a circle that cant be obstructed. Most instances I would rather travel by rover that is more efficient than just flying everywhere and using jet fuel super inefficiently when I could just mine all the surrounding tiles in a 15-25km area.
 
It would also be nice to have an actual boat based vehicle that just floats on the water. With teraforming we could create lakes, rivers, and all sorts of ways to more efficiently move on or within a planet. Building massive cargo ships that are bound to physics like spaceships where if it is too heavy or mis weighted it will bob or roll and I think it should go down and blow up that way or if it hits the ground with a lot of weight.
 
Or even some kind of rail system would be pretty awesome for transporting ore, parts, services around much more efficiently especially if there was a need for depots warehoouses, and getting goods safely to the market place. Especially if there was some government paying for infrastructure like that for industry at the cost of shipping. Still with a couple of friends, a couple shell orgs for cores and a lot of elbow grease you could probably get a pretty good shipping company going with multiple lines.
 
It would also be nice to be able to do more with teraforming like create roads, bridges, perhaps even some kind of logistics infrastructure or power plant networks for regional power grids that you can pay other players for power.
 
Just seems strange that industry has this nice investment that generates real money or items, pilots have a ship to invest in, PvPers likewise have something to invest in that can generate profit. Miners need a customizable tool or some kind of exclusive vehicle like a mech or industrial boring machine. Right now its pretty boring and its going to get more boring as time goes on and it gets harder to find resource
 
Right now miners are just some people who cant do much until you can multiclass into other aspects like miner/pilot or miner/industry. Until then you either are forced to spec into processing to make perhaps a couple more credits or you just work endlessly mining ore at cut rate prices so everyone else can get rich off your efforts. Miners are the fundation of what can be done in this game it would be nice if there was an actual mining talent tree like the other roles.
 
Just like inventory needs its own tree and the potential to drastically increase container range to 5km max would also really help or if you could effectively turn putdowns for containers and turn say an XS container volumer into the next step up into an S, S into M, M into L, and so on. Also being able to drastically incease your nanopack volume so that you could at least mine a standard 12kl node would work instead of 5km container range. My biggest gripe is walking just outside container range and having tomake multiple trips since base you can carry like 4kl volume and at max is still only like 6kl volume. If we could have the ability to go at least up to like 18-24kl with some kind of exoskeleton or mech addon container that adds directly to your nanopack but still allows an additional container link. I would love that.
 

I really dislike what 0.23 did to new players most of all.
 
Nobody will really tell you straight up when you join the game that it will take 10,000 hours of straight up mining to finally be in a position of self sufficiency to actuall even start to experience this game 6-12 months into their start to have a fleet of ships for different purposes, an industry, min/max spec talents with other players, a base or two and being able to finally stand up before you consider the losses from pvp, inefficient machines, dings and smashes to destructible parts, ultra saturated markets, and generally being largely able to not do what you want in game or to have a full functional experience on top of it.
 
If you are a new player you have a mountainous grind to the top of everest when you consider a new player cant reliably do anything in game and forget choosing something fun you want to do, you are expected to mine probably 100 hours to just get a ship going that is even worth going mining for in the first place along with the crashes / destructive elements and general lack of talents. They cant go industry which is now under lock and key and beyond the hands of a new player who might be able to buy some of the basics but will be required to either jump to a higher tier but cant mine the stuff so its pretty pointless. Or that their nano crafter is so inefficient that they might as well be deleting the ore since its at like a 40% loss to everything off the bat just to throw the rest away in repairs. And they also cant go piloting first unless they dont want to be able to mine to get the ore to get the ship to get the ore to crash the ship to fix the ship to mine more ore. Its a hell of a daunting thing to ask people in a game with no respawnable resources and expecting people to mine for like 5-10hrs a day to do just basic things. And the devs keep piling on the hits as time goes on directly intentionally or unintentionally at new players who are stuck in the crossfire each time they punish from the bottom up rather than actually creating a balance by punishing at the top and not necessarily at the top down.
 
For instance rather then knee capping 75% of the people from using their industry when schematics went in they could have let everyone still be able to be sufficient enough to still use the basic recipie but if you wanted something more then you could opt in for the advanced, rare, extended rediculous version and buy a schematic. That would have been fair to the people who invest who knows how much before JC decides to put a lock on it for no real reason and then throwing a wrench in the market so that he can throw a bone to the mega orgs who bought up all the schematics, had all the power, credits, and ability to shrug it off with minimal losses while everyone else got shut down.
 
When they could have not just put some arbitrary content gate and money sink after mega orgs have been pilaging this game in EZ mode upto this point and have massive quantities of parts, ore, territories they got at 100k and cleaned up which now also costs everyone else like 2mil now. They could have just made it so the more land you claim the more expensive it gets to allow mega orgs to expend but at an escalting rate so new players or anyone else could own land but no it neither stops mega orgs who have lots of credits to continue buying up all the juice nodes but it does further prevent anyone else from ever catching up with the mass imbalance they have been allowed to reap and use to their fullest extent up to this point in mining, pvp, and the markets.
 
They could have just thought about this issue for like 5 additional seconds and though hey we have no idea why our market system is broken and terrible and rather than throwing wrenches into things and breaking the game more in favor of JCs precious mega orgs and destroying the rest of the game for anyone else maybe we should prevent people from being able to put so much stuff up on the market. Or that if you only cater to the mega orgs then they will no doubt hyper saturate the market in which case the only way the maket goes from here on out is down into the ground. If your precious buy sell bots didnt manipulate the market in the way it does it would be like 1H for everything right now.
 
When in addition to just letting people keep their T1 industry and upgrade when they wanted and left it alone so anyone could at least maintain their fleets. The real issue is the way the markets are run. All the people who played during pre-0.23 EZ mode have such a collective hoard of items/mats/etc that the market at this point will never fully recover and when the mining bots go in we will have such an influx of mats into the system that will no doubt make some kind of chainmail interlocking grief loops to account for. When from the start they only needed to limit how much you can reliably put up into the market in one weeks time. Supply and demand is a real thing and in DU we cant get the machines running fast enough to keep up with how much crap is put up into the market.
 
There honestly needs to be a liscense system that prevenst people per week from shoveling unlimited quantities of items endlessly into the market. Either the taxes need to be adjusted by the volume or storage space you use in that market. Or there needs to be an additional fee or tax for the priveledge to use the market in the first place to huck those massive quantities into per each individual market. Each week if you intend to sell more than a certain amount of free trade volume limit per day if you want to sell more then that there should be a talent to raise the minimum, but if you want to sell more then that then you need to buy a liscense that renews per week and not per day like the personal free volume. Each wee you need to bet how much you think you can reliably sell. If you dont use all the volume you waste money, dont have enough space you lose money, and it should be about strategically selling items per week when other peoples limits run out or to find the actual sweet spot that you can afford to reliably scale to pay for the scaling liscense volume that has options of 1 week - 1 month to further entice people to lock rates and build up stock rather then the markets we have now.
 
Those two solutions would have been much better then the way schematics are being handled as a content gate & money sink so you can mine more for no reason. Eventually if they box everything out of a new players hands this game is dead before launch.

I really dislike what 0.23 did to new players most of all.
 
Nobody will really tell you straight up when you join the game that it will take 10,000 hours of straight up mining to finally be in a position of self sufficiency to actuall even start to experience this game 6-12 months into their start to have a fleet of ships for different purposes, an industry, min/max spec talents with other players, a base or two and being able to finally stand up before you consider the losses from pvp, inefficient machines, dings and smashes to destructible parts, ultra saturated markets, and generally being largely able to not do what you want in game or to have a full functional experience on top of it.
 
If you are a new player you have a mountainous grind to the top of everest when you consider a new player cant reliably do anything in game and forget choosing something fun you want to do, you are expected to mine probably 100 hours to just get a ship going that is even worth going mining for in the first place along with the crashes / destructive elements and general lack of talents. They cant go industry which is now under lock and key and beyond the hands of a new player who might be able to buy some of the basics but will be required to either jump to a higher tier but cant mine the stuff so its pretty pointless. Or that their nano crafter is so inefficient that they might as well be deleting the ore since its at like a 40% loss to everything off the bat just to throw the rest away in repairs. And they also cant go piloting first unless they dont want to be able to mine to get the ore to get the ship to get the ore to crash the ship to fix the ship to mine more ore. Its a hell of a daunting thing to ask people in a game with no respawnable resources and expecting people to mine for like 5-10hrs a day to do just basic things. And the devs keep piling on the hits as time goes on directly intentionally or unintentionally at new players who are stuck in the crossfire each time they punish from the bottom up rather than actually creating a balance by punishing at the top and not necessarily at the top down.
 
For instance rather then knee capping 75% of the people from using their industry when schematics went in they could have let everyone still be able to be sufficient enough to still use the basic recipie but if you wanted something more then you could opt in for the advanced, rare, extended rediculous version and buy a schematic. That would have been fair to the people who invest who knows how much before JC decides to put a lock on it for no real reason and then throwing a wrench in the market so that he can throw a bone to the mega orgs who bought up all the schematics, had all the power, credits, and ability to shrug it off with minimal losses while everyone else got shut down.
 
When they could have not just put some arbitrary content gate and money sink after mega orgs have been pilaging this game in EZ mode upto this point and have massive quantities of parts, ore, territories they got at 100k and cleaned up which now also costs everyone else like 2mil now. They could have just made it so the more land you claim the more expensive it gets to allow mega orgs to expend but at an escalting rate so new players or anyone else could own land but no it neither stops mega orgs who have lots of credits to continue buying up all the juice nodes but it does further prevent anyone else from ever catching up with the mass imbalance they have been allowed to reap and use to their fullest extent up to this point in mining, pvp, and the markets.
 
They could have just thought about this issue for like 5 additional seconds and though hey we have no idea why our market system is broken and terrible and rather than throwing wrenches into things and breaking the game more in favor of JCs precious mega orgs and destroying the rest of the game for anyone else maybe we should prevent people from being able to put so much stuff up on the market. Or that if you only cater to the mega orgs then they will no doubt hyper saturate the market in which case the only way the maket goes from here on out is down into the ground. If your precious buy sell bots didnt manipulate the market in the way it does it would be like 1H for everything right now.
 
When in addition to just letting people keep their T1 industry and upgrade when they wanted and left it alone so anyone could at least maintain their fleets. The real issue is the way the markets are run. All the people who played during pre-0.23 EZ mode have such a collective hoard of items/mats/etc that the market at this point will never fully recover and when the mining bots go in we will have such an influx of mats into the system that will no doubt make some kind of chainmail interlocking grief loops to account for. When from the start they only needed to limit how much you can reliably put up into the market in one weeks time. Supply and demand is a real thing and in DU we cant get the machines running fast enough to keep up with how much crap is put up into the market.
 
There honestly needs to be a liscense system that prevenst people per week from shoveling unlimited quantities of items endlessly into the market. Either the taxes need to be adjusted by the volume or storage space you use in that market. Or there needs to be an additional fee or tax for the priveledge to use the market in the first place to huck those massive quantities into per each individual market. Each week if you intend to sell more than a certain amount of free trade volume limit per day if you want to sell more then that there should be a talent to raise the minimum, but if you want to sell more then that then you need to buy a liscense that renews per week and not per day like the personal free volume. Each wee you need to bet how much you think you can reliably sell. If you dont use all the volume you waste money, dont have enough space you lose money, and it should be about strategically selling items per week when other peoples limits run out or to find the actual sweet spot that you can afford to reliably scale to pay for the scaling liscense volume that has options of 1 week - 1 month to further entice people to lock rates and build up stock rather then the markets we have now.
 
Those two solutions would have been much better then the way schematics are being handled as a content gate & money sink so you can mine more for no reason. Eventually if they box everything out of a new players hands this game is dead before launch.

Lol I tried to offer to come scoop them, hook them up with a ship/base, rations, etc to help get them past some of the hurdles but even stil they chose not to play the game. They arent the first new player either that I offered that deal to but they are so turned off by the tutorial and the start that most give up before they even get going and I almost quit before I got rolling too. Im sure many other new players dont even take the time to even voice their concerns before they quit.
 
New players need some starting faction to pull together organizations and to have a fully functional ship, base, ration generations of gas/scrap and the ability to at least try out all the roles before going into one of the 3-4 main roles within the game. Without being able to try any of the industry right up front or allowing for some self sufficiency is a bad president to set even if they want to force conformed micro compartmentalized roles. It just simply does not work that way nor the type of playstles or play time people typically have on any given day being on the average of 1-4 hours for most people. Not being able to do anything beyond 1 role especially for our industry guy who has nothing to do since he cant fly, cant mine, cant run the machine, or pretty much play the game right now beyond moral support is rediculous for both new, current, or vet players.
 
There is no real higher function or purpose to most of the game as it currently is beyond mass producing and saturation of the market just to do it since nobody really wants to pvp and most features are being nerfed and somehow that is supposed to be a good thing when there should be more freedom, more renewable resources, more production, and JC just might get his epic single spacewar battle otherwise its JC handing large orgs everything while everyone else might see the content before JC again nerfs everything in the game so a handful of orgs can have fun while everyone else is being strangled by red tape and bone headed decisions. The vision is killing this game.
 
It will never be Eve, Star Citizen or any of the already niche market games they listed. Its a fact that they do it better and they make more money. a mine craft clone with space elements and EQN landmark building in a limited single solar system game is not my idea of shooting for the stars as it were and failing pretty hard in all aspects.
 
I was joking with my mining buddy that if this were told from the perspective of a story or movie it would have played out like:
 
Remember that time in EP4 of Star Wars when Obi Wan, Luke, Han, and Chewie were going to leave Mos Esiley pinned down by storm troopers who are growing by the minuite but they couldnt leave because the Millennium Falcon needed 12 L stabilizers to get it off the ground  but they spend the rest of the moving trying to position the stabilizers because they needed a bunch of space and couldnt find enough space to fit more than 4 so they finally got arrested by the Empire 1hr 42mins into the movie?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in Star Trek when the Klingons fired 6 torpedoes at the Starship Enterprise and it blew up instantly because there was no defense systems developed and they just flat out stole the ship and the show became some wierd spinoff with some bazaro cast of space pirate klingons griefing the universe?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in SG1 when the team got pinned down by the replicators and they thought they were gonners until some random patch updated their software and they lacked the schematic to kill humans and hard to go to the market and got scalped since all the market bots bought up the schematics and fleeced the replicators for 3x the price and instead they had to go mining for weeks on end and by the time they went to kill the SG1 team they were long gone?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in the Matrix when Trinity wanted to fly the helicopter after saving Morpheus and she went to download the Piloting Talents and her que said that at 90 exp per min it would take her 171 days to be able to fully fly the helicopter and they all died one by one surrounded stuck on the roof by agents and military until the credits rolled?
 
Yeah me neither...
 
It wouldnt be funny if it wasnt how this game plays normally. There is so much red tape and limitations that you cant have heroic moments or cool experiences in this game because the Dystopic Vision demands punishment and gind and monotony their dominatrix would be proud of. Rather then allowing people enough resources as a single or small org crew to even start to fight or do anything since the only real playstyle that matters is PvP or at least the first strike ambush gank pvp playstyle. You can at least cut through 90% of the red tape just by siezing ships then the headache it is to mine, process, craft, and sell items at a loss since most PvP players siezing items dont care how much they post it for and crafters are hurting for money and undercutting themselves just to try and break even before the inflation really hits before they turn around and add mining bots to then oversaturate and undo what they attempted to do. All without any real purpose or function or the ability to make our own markets or give reason to the only thing we can do really is to mine, make items, then gank more items. Its not a very solid gameplay loop.

Yeah it boggles the mind that you cant upgrade the basic tools or the nanopack.
 
I think that there should be some kind of exoskeleton line that at least turns the nanopack into a S/M container. Most times as a miner I can only grab a small node outside of container range and it would be nice if I could just pick up a standard 12kl node.
 
But moreso then anything I think that since  pilots have ships to invest in with a real purpose, or industry which has an investment of purpose, or PvPers having a ship and weapons / ammo to invest with a purpose that mining should also get some kind of vehicle or mech they can pilot which adds better capabilities or functions to mining and that depending on the size frame of a mech (10m/15m/20m/25m) could then have mountable parts like containers, weapons, lazers, mining drills, or any number of functions or impliments creating a new way for miners to play, pvpers to fight, and a hole host of things. As well as jump jets, melee weapons, and the ability to put them onto ships for drop ships or to load full containers onto ships without having to delete them but transfer them between cores.

Lol I tried to offer to come scoop them, hook them up with a ship/base, rations, etc to help get them past some of the hurdles but even stil they chose not to play the game. They arent the first new player either that I offered that deal to but they are so turned off by the tutorial and the start that most give up before they even get going and I almost quit before I got rolling too. Im sure many other new players dont even take the time to even voice their concerns before they quit.
 
New players need some starting faction to pull together organizations and to have a fully functional ship, base, ration generations of gas/scrap and the ability to at least try out all the roles before going into one of the 3-4 main roles within the game. Without being able to try any of the industry right up front or allowing for some self sufficiency is a bad president to set even if they want to force conformed micro compartmentalized roles. It just simply does not work that way nor the type of playstles or play time people typically have on any given day being on the average of 1-4 hours for most people. Not being able to do anything beyond 1 role especially for our industry guy who has nothing to do since he cant fly, cant mine, cant run the machine, or pretty much play the game right now beyond moral support is rediculous for both new, current, or vet players.
 
There is no real higher function or purpose to most of the game as it currently is beyond mass producing and saturation of the market just to do it since nobody really wants to pvp and most features are being nerfed and somehow that is supposed to be a good thing when there should be more freedom, more renewable resources, more production, and JC just might get his epic single spacewar battle otherwise its JC handing large orgs everything while everyone else might see the content before JC again nerfs everything in the game so a handful of orgs can have fun while everyone else is being strangled by red tape and bone headed decisions. The vision is killing this game.
 
It will never be Eve, Star Citizen or any of the already niche market games they listed. Its a fact that they do it better and they make more money. a mine craft clone with space elements and EQN landmark building in a limited single solar system game is not my idea of shooting for the stars as it were and failing pretty hard in all aspects.
 
I was joking with my mining buddy that if this were told from the perspective of a story or movie it would have played out like:
 
Remember that time in EP4 of Star Wars when Obi Wan, Luke, Han, and Chewie were going to leave Mos Esiley pinned down by storm troopers who are growing by the minuite but they couldnt leave because the Millennium Falcon needed 12 L stabilizers to get it off the ground  but they spend the rest of the moving trying to position the stabilizers because they needed a bunch of space and couldnt find enough space to fit more than 4 so they finally got arrested by the Empire 1hr 42mins into the movie?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in Star Trek when the Klingons fired 6 torpedoes at the Starship Enterprise and it blew up instantly because there was no defense systems developed and they just flat out stole the ship and the show became some wierd spinoff with some bazaro cast of space pirate klingons griefing the universe?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in SG1 when the team got pinned down by the replicators and they thought they were gonners until some random patch updated their software and they lacked the schematic to kill humans and hard to go to the market and got scalped since all the market bots bought up the schematics and fleeced the replicators for 3x the price and instead they had to go mining for weeks on end and by the time they went to kill the SG1 team they were long gone?
 
Yeah me either...
 
Anyone remember that time in the Matrix when Trinity wanted to fly the helicopter after saving Morpheus and she went to download the Piloting Talents and her que said that at 90 exp per min it would take her 171 days to be able to fully fly the helicopter and they all died one by one surrounded stuck on the roof by agents and military until the credits rolled?
 
Yeah me neither...
 
It wouldnt be funny if it wasnt how this game plays normally. There is so much red tape and limitations that you cant have heroic moments or cool experiences in this game because the Dystopic Vision demands punishment and gind and monotony their dominatrix would be proud of. Rather then allowing people enough resources as a single or small org crew to even start to fight or do anything since the only real playstyle that matters is PvP or at least the first strike ambush gank pvp playstyle. You can at least cut through 90% of the red tape just by siezing ships then the headache it is to mine, process, craft, and sell items at a loss since most PvP players siezing items dont care how much they post it for and crafters are hurting for money and undercutting themselves just to try and break even before the inflation really hits before they turn around and add mining bots to then oversaturate and undo what they attempted to do. All without any real purpose or function or the ability to make our own markets or give reason to the only thing we can do really is to mine, make items, then gank more items. Its not a very solid gameplay loop.

Great post.
 
I just want to interject one thing.  I've been doing a lot of mining lately and the biggest time sink for me is cleaning the node off.  If this process could be expediated a bit, it would help tremendously.  Like maybe a cleaning part of the tool?  Where I point at an area and it zaps the dirt / ground elements around it in a large area off of it?  I don't like the idea of mining bots either, but the fact of the matter is mining is straight up sickening.  I agree with you changes should be done there first before bots.

When I first started playing Dual Universe, I thought that the Anti Gravity Generator would make its construct completely ignore gravity. Fly down to a planet surface in a straight line from orbit at 1000km/h. Start on a planet surface and go vertical to orbit even with a single atmo engine XS and a single space engine XS, albeit with really slow acceleration.
 
The reality was exceedingly disappointing, and the nerfs even more so.
 
Let's make AGGs actually fun to use.

Yeah its like anyy real sci-fi elements in this game are too fun or powerful to be in the hands of the players since we might actually use them over the WW2 tech we are left using with atmo/space travel. These types of systems are too powerful and so they feel like they have to limit their use or religate them to basic opperation from what they should do to what NQ will allow us to do.
 
At some point though we should progress to the point that this stuff should be useful or plentiful enough for common use over traditional means of 19th-20th century travel methods. It should not take 20 L wings to fly a star ship. I have never seen a sci-fi show where any starship has many wings if any at all. Not to mention the massive amount of hp it forces you to add in order to opperate. And it just goes on and on down the line with all the tech we have in game that technicallyt qualifies as sci-fi just maginally opperable.
 
With AGG I just hope they go with the hover pad route that makes it more functional with adding more grab pads for more gravitational force output for the weight you are trying to move. I would prefer it to be some kind of self contained thing that perhaps runs on mercury, dark matter, or some kind of easily producable fuel source like kergon or nitron.
 
But still anything that makes life easier in this game is sorely needed as we should be going towards more sci-fi elements as the progression ladder climbs vs nerfing everything or knee capping aspects of the game.

FU fanboy it is not a lie. The schematic system is broken no matter what you fanboys claim. If my 3d printer could only print a part after I paid 500€ for that 5€ part's schematic I'd throw it in the trash, so much for "like in RL". In the alpha they made it more accessible so people could build had an extra gameplay element. It turned out people liked doing industry a lot and managing and building your factory became a central aspect of DU. This is a fact and no whining from your part can change this. Now this is gone. No, setting up a single line is no fun, no, feeding it 24/7 and praying prices won't drop so I don't make a massive loss is not an option. They should have consulted someone with some game design experience because this machanic is completely broken yet it could have been done so well.
And no, industry was never meant to be used to lock yourself into producing one item only. NQ themselves stated industry and market is to build parts that are expensive on the market and switch once they get too cheap. Yep that's not gonna work anymore.

If its such a stupid idea why is it used in real life to keep pirates, terrorists, or armies from getting sensitive material, supplies, arms, or vehicles out of the hands of such people or plots in Sci-fi with the last example I saw being IG-88 in the Manelorian for that exact reason? Pretty stupid I agree.
 
But honestly why would I let you take what I earned knowing full well all the time/effort/risk/and reward are going down the drain to some space pirates using a broken PvP system with no defense mechanics to prevent it considering whomever locks first wins? The PvP tree is a joke and one of the fastest trees vs mining/piloring/industry/crafting for all of the upside and bypassing all the work, money, and effort everyone else has to put in just so you can sit in a lane and steal everything in sight...
 
Thats pretty stupid
 
 

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

Actually, "Wishful thinking" is "the imagining or discussion of a very unlikely future event or situation as if it were possible and might one day happen" - Cambridge dictionary 
The problem here is that the described scenario is a tailored pragmatic overview of past events in other games. It may be a worst case scenario, but it is not unlikely at all.
There's little point in being afraid that it will come to pass, but to simply dismiss the possibility merely invites it to happen.

Long term, removing bots would cause prices to fall, right? 
 
Bots are one of two ways currency gets injected into the game. Without bots, the only way to "print" money is through the daily login bonus.
 
Less currency supply means deflation -- each unit of currency is worth more because there's less of it to go around. 
 
The fact that the game doesn't have a way to print money other than daily login and bots...it's another one of those core design issues that should have been thought about a long time ago. 
 
There's a reason MMOs have NPCs and NPC drops...beyond injecting fresh money into the currency supply, it also makes for many easy gameplay loops.
 
They want everything to be "run by players"? Fine...but they do still need an actual plan which they haven't bothered to make after this many years. Not for the economy. Not for gameplay loops. Not even for basic player interactions like PvP....and that's NQ's core issue.
 
They don't want to plan. They want to be "different", but don't want to think too hard about what those differences actually mean for the game's design and gameplay. 

Hello,
 
I was just wondering what is happening. The last patches seem to kill all the little content the game has to offer. The Mining gameplay is boring and the crap scanner drives you crazy. But at least with t3+ ores it paid well for the invested time. Since the patch no one buys t3+ ores anymore. Cause no one can effort the factory gameplay anymore. This has shut down most of the trading and transportation gameplay. Element destruction is a nightmare when it comes to expensive elements. What means even the fly for fun gameplay is gone. What is left is the building gameplay. But with which money? And why?
 
It seems the only thing to generate substential amounts of money is to mine and sell t1 ores to bots. In a subscription model mmo.
 
For me the reason to play this game was to create and hang around the creations of others. For this the grind has to be reasonable.
 
 

A lot of good points, theories and remedies posted in here but I am afraid it may be too late, its already a ghost universe in game.
 
One thing NQ will learn from this is that in the live service markets; when your customers leave because there is little to no content after they spent hours building up their assets, they are likely to come back after a while when new content eventually gets added. They were set up nice too because people did not mind letting their talents train whilst they played other games in the meanwhile, they had a fun experience playing the game at the least.
 
With this approach they effectively nuked those players. Unhappy players will unsub/refund and move on, never to return because they have been done dirty,  its too late for NQ to act all pikachu face over this. All the feedback that was given beforehand said this would have happened but they pushed through anyways.

I couldnt help but laught when reading the op, because either they arent listening or they need to put their heading aids in and turn that shit up to 10.
 
I cant help feeling like NQ was like hey we have this car and for a monthly fee we will let you drive it. Obviously they dont trust us or like how we drive so they put all sorts of limits on what we can do. But it feels like we have hit the point where NQ is like hey we dont like how you turn the steering wheel 60 degrees in either direction and we only intended it to turn at like 15 degrees in either direction so we are going to have to take the steering capability from you or make it so you can only turn the wheel every couple mins bc we dont like how you drive. So we sit here and debate why they shouldnt take the steering whell from us or the windshield next which is on their list and why it is important to us in its purpose and function when we know damn well no matter what we say they already got the tools out ready to take the winshield in the end. If we are lucky they just shatter the windshield and leave it broken and useless while we debate why they shouldnt loosen all the lug nuts off the wheels next.
 
The devs at EverQuest Next said it best when they shut down EQN and Landmark when they said "It just wasnt fun".
 
 
 
 
 

I would like to see a bookmark nested folder system added to the game rather than the single mass list we currently have. It would be nice to have all PoI's in a folder, or set a folder for each planet, a folder for whatever really, we just need the ability to sepperate bookmarks.

8: Renewable resources bc who wants to go to desolate strip mined out wastelands 6 months from now to spend a month to get what should take a few days to a week to get normally...

In a sandbox game why are they forcing their vision when its supposed to be an organic choice that all players make instead of funneling players into choke points as fodder which will be like shooting fish in a barrel? That is not going to end well when the resources her run out and you cant break into the zone. If they put multi org blockades on these jump gates they will have a solar system exclusively to themselves until we simply just dont have the resources to come through anymore then what happens to 60-75% of the rest of us once all our ships are destroyed and we cant make anymore?
 
Why is the only route for advancement beyond personal advancement? And NO personal industry does not equal Org industry advancement when a single person can get a large cube fully decked out in a month. Why is there no Org only versions with the same mats for things like frigates, frieghters, corvett, and capital ships through orgs now? That stuff shouldnt require alien tech now. We got here on an Arc ship which should in theory be larger than a mothership you would think.
 
There is a difference between vision and execution of that vision and the fundamental impact it will have on the overall community. Not trying to brag here but I have been playing MMOs since UO and likely 125+ MMOs overall including most if not all the best pvp games (besides Eve) and I can tell you that if you give the top orgs the keys to the kingdom they will use it to the fullest extent allowed to shut down and shut out everyone else. Not to mention allowing them to mine, stockpile, hoard, and arm themselves for that time. Its going to be a trainwreck when 25% of the population will ever get to see any of that content and further distance themselves with that tech until NQ gives them another solar system to dominate after they have strip mined that too. Sweeeet, what vision.

Well since each size of core allows/allowed you to move a core further even with an M class Dynamic core 4-5 pushes was like 1km. I dont know about anyone else here but with the insanely low distance on container range and strip mined resrources on various moons/planets I was not about to constantly waste gas bounding around from tile to tile or hopping regions just to find ore. I just walked the ship from tile to tile. And mining even with a small crew of 4 was basically impossible on any sustained scale since you basically are forced to park between 2-3 tiles and have each person take a tile since for whatever reason people next to each other lags the hell out of this game for each of us. So dropping exp into the talent used to be worth it but if this change goes in it is no longer even necessary to even have the talent.
 
It aint my fault most moons/plaents I go to are swiss cheese strip mined out wastelands, I just roll with NQ punching me in the face constantly with bad game design.

In a sandbox game why are they forcing their vision when its supposed to be an organic choice that all players make instead of funneling players into choke points as fodder which will be like shooting fish in a barrel? That is not going to end well when the resources her run out and you cant break into the zone. If they put multi org blockades on these jump gates they will have a solar system exclusively to themselves until we simply just dont have the resources to come through anymore then what happens to 60-75% of the rest of us once all our ships are destroyed and we cant make anymore?
 
Why is the only route for advancement beyond personal advancement? And NO personal industry does not equal Org industry advancement when a single person can get a large cube fully decked out in a month. Why is there no Org only versions with the same mats for things like frigates, frieghters, corvett, and capital ships through orgs now? That stuff shouldnt require alien tech now. We got here on an Arc ship which should in theory be larger than a mothership you would think.
 
There is a difference between vision and execution of that vision and the fundamental impact it will have on the overall community. Not trying to brag here but I have been playing MMOs since UO and likely 125+ MMOs overall including most if not all the best pvp games (besides Eve) and I can tell you that if you give the top orgs the keys to the kingdom they will use it to the fullest extent allowed to shut down and shut out everyone else. Not to mention allowing them to mine, stockpile, hoard, and arm themselves for that time. Its going to be a trainwreck when 25% of the population will ever get to see any of that content and further distance themselves with that tech until NQ gives them another solar system to dominate after they have strip mined that too. Sweeeet, what vision.

In a sandbox game why are they forcing their vision when its supposed to be an organic choice that all players make instead of funneling players into choke points as fodder which will be like shooting fish in a barrel? That is not going to end well when the resources her run out and you cant break into the zone. If they put multi org blockades on these jump gates they will have a solar system exclusively to themselves until we simply just dont have the resources to come through anymore then what happens to 60-75% of the rest of us once all our ships are destroyed and we cant make anymore?
 
Why is the only route for advancement beyond personal advancement? And NO personal industry does not equal Org industry advancement when a single person can get a large cube fully decked out in a month. Why is there no Org only versions with the same mats for things like frigates, frieghters, corvett, and capital ships through orgs now? That stuff shouldnt require alien tech now. We got here on an Arc ship which should in theory be larger than a mothership you would think.
 
There is a difference between vision and execution of that vision and the fundamental impact it will have on the overall community. Not trying to brag here but I have been playing MMOs since UO and likely 125+ MMOs overall including most if not all the best pvp games (besides Eve) and I can tell you that if you give the top orgs the keys to the kingdom they will use it to the fullest extent allowed to shut down and shut out everyone else. Not to mention allowing them to mine, stockpile, hoard, and arm themselves for that time. Its going to be a trainwreck when 25% of the population will ever get to see any of that content and further distance themselves with that tech until NQ gives them another solar system to dominate after they have strip mined that too. Sweeeet, what vision.

Thats the problem, i have seen in other MMO's what happens when large guilds/orgs control content and deny it for the rest of the community, and it is not a good thing.
As i said average player is not interested in orgs, politics , pvp to that extent , average player spends a bit of his time playing and wants to chill out , try new things , do bit of mining , build something, do bit of exploring maybe a quest or a mission.
In-game politics, large org projects are for diehards who spend 6+ hours a day playing, and those will have an obvious advantage , give them ability to control content and the vast majority of population wont be able to leave safe space.
 
Creators vision and customer expectations have to meet ,  or neither side will benefit. Creator wont have a project to work on and customers wont have a product to enjoy.