Thank you for providing us with the information ! Much appreciated.
Can you please describe what would happen in those scenarios please?:
1) Ship X is firing on ship Y from 1 SU range. Ship Y pilot is hit and dies or logs off(or alt-f4 or game crash etc). Ship Y has no other pilots on board. Will ship Y continue to move ? Will it stop once the core is destroyed ?
2) Ship X is flying toward a market district and is at 1 SU range from it, market district has N amount of players in it. Pilot flying ship X has game crash or does alt-f4. What will happen? Will the ship continue on like it's trajectory and crash ? (Does ECU has any effect here?)
3) Ship X is in space at 30,000km/h. Only 1 player P on it and no other players in 10 SU range. Player P logs off or alt+f4. The ship will freeze(please correct me if I am wrong). What happens if another player approaches the ship while player P is logged off ? Will the ship start moving when another player approached it ? Will it be standing still and instantly gain 30,000 only when player P logs back in ?
We just travelled for close to 10,000 years and we don't have the technology to make things last a single year? I'm OK with limited patch cycles (many games have the concept of durability, which gets reduced each time an item is repaired), but just using something shouldn't damage it - its against the game lore.
There needs to be another basic change, which I think would resolve a lot of the tower issues, mushroom stations, etc: Have collision damage allocated as it is in real life - to both objects based on their mass. If I run a massive L borg cube into a single wide voxel tower, the tower losses with minimum damage to the borg cube. That is just physics.
I am still trying to figure out who it was that built the districts and markets..
Did the mother-ship come with a workforce of lower class crew that Aphelia put back in the freezer once the work was completed? Or maybe she used remote controlled robots, and then just forgot to give us access to that technology?
@Rimezx I see, thanks! Seems you got the recent announcement on your side and I'll lose this one, but in that case I still disagree. I think using the AGG for parking is awesome. If that was an option for "just any ship or static construct" I would agree with no-parking, but since you need at least an M core to fit the AGG I feel that's big enough to be something I'd like to see up there as part of the scenery.
However, the new perspective makes me ponder if this could lead to issues... like creating a permanent carpet of ships above an area. I don't think that would happen too often and if it did it would be quite the sight and story. Hrm. I'll probably take some more time thinking about implications before I reach a final conclusion. So far I just feel sad that it's taking this route, but I'll cope
Regarding the Lua part: yeaah, from dev to dev - welcome to the club! I could do it, that's not the issue. Thing is I kinda don't want to. I feel something like this should be part of any SciFi setting anyways and come "out of the box". I'm leaning more to the arcade side of SciFi and I realized that's not where the road took us long ago. Still I just need a long time to accept things like this and then finally work around it in the end after I lost hope that the stuff I think is cool will come on its own.
Lol. I don't know if I'm a 'carebear', but DU's damage model and implementation is absurdly dumbed down. I have ~1200 hours in Space Engineers (where a crash will wreck and break apart a ship and most of the time very little can be salvaged) and ~500 hours in Kerbal Space Program (where a crash over ~50m/s literally means complete craft destruction).
I'd prefer a Space Engineers damage system, with needing to ensure ships have structure or else they break apart. None of this floating element nonsense. If you crash, well, better luck next time.
Of course, Space Engineers doesn't require dozens if not hundreds of hours for cumulative crafting times for even a moderate sized ship...
Yeah I liked Space Engineers while I played it. The medieval one was interesting but not as good as the space version. Fun while it lasted though.
I think if they would allow for core links to either customize your ship shapes in lines or any other shape you could chain on could work for section breaks if the core links were severed or the voxels as well acting like structure failure could work well. Not sure if it would ever make it in the game but it would be nice.
Regardless I think they need to approach this from a different direction altogether.
Where as there should be some way to actually customize all the parts and items through alloys, different mats making up the item (think carbon fiber vs aluminum vs steel vs titanium for instance or even the bamboo composit materials that are harder than steel), mod-able parts in general (high performance, think of what you can do with say a stock mustang), hardness values, the HP tree, and allow us to customize our ship to what we thing we need. But instead up punishing people from the bottom up it needs to be from the top down.
Such as T1 crafted parts or items should have 25 crashes base before you add Talents or mods. The newbies still need a chance to learn to fly.
Where as if you are using T5 parts you should know what you are doing where as 3-5 crashes base before mods or talents should be much higher stakes for stronger items or higher performance parts really matter in flight, frieght, transport, or battle truely matter. Most large org could swing that where as if you are just some solo random guy you dont need a car with 500 horse power you just need a car that will get you from point a to b reliably that does not require as much maintenence as a F1 race car does and will last you 10-20+ plus if you take care of it or baby it.
Been kicking the idea around in my head all day and if I were to make a constructive suggestion on how to make a fair top down approach to Destructive Elements that fair to both vets and newbies it would be this:
Scrap could use an additional Talent Tree branch called Equipment Manager Technician / Mechanic which allows for more repairs to to extend the life cycle of crashes for both putdowns & better functionality of the Repair tool.
Repair Tool Efficiency for additional hp per second when repairing
Repair Tool Optimization for additional rate at which you can heal
Durability Optimization for extending the amount of crashes any part can have on put down
Auto Repair Tool Optimization for how fast your auto repair device can heal via scrap / parts to bring an item from destroyed to damaged
In addition to this I propose for the amount of crashes that are base before any talents are added to be:
XS items: 50 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items
S Items: 40 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items
M Items: 30 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items
L items: 20 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items
XL items: 10 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items
XXL items: 5 base crashes before being completely destroyed for stock items (future additions for frigate/corvette/ cap ships)
Or alternatively you could give a buffer for crashes to newbies measured in total exp accumulation by the million to give some kind of grace period of still allowing newbies to learn to fly before it eases in. You could assume that by 10mil exp they would lose that buffer as the 10mil could equal 100% grace perhaps. You cant just throw them to the wolves and expect someone just starting the game to be able to constantly replace their ship after 3-5 crashes. I think by the time I both learned how to fly and also how to balance a ship in terms of progression of each of the core sizes and balancing and adding parts to make it actually flyable 50 base crashes for an XS is not out of the question or 30 crashes for an M is not that much out of the real of a learning/testing/optimization cycle.
Beyond the base crash buffer I would like to see a new Talent Tree added called Engineer in which adds additional destructions for all the element types to add durability to them on putdown or additional efficiency to repair each type of element or optimization. It is still independent of the effects in the piloting tree as well as the HP Tree. You could sepperate the two branches for Space Engineering and Ground Enginering which should be able to cover all the parts for ships and industry. I would also like to see another branch for Static Core Engineering and Dynamic Engineering which should add more links to both types of cores along with additional crashes or destructions to both cores.
Beyond that I would like to see grades added to different items:
Stock: Balanced for speed, durability, weight, and hardness)
Performance: Optimized for speed over all other aspects
Armored: Optimized for hardness and protection over all other aspects
Composit: Optimized for specific functions or using sliders to some how choose what you exactly want
High performance: Extreme power at a cost
Beyond grades I would like to see all materials have additional traits added beyond just weight for:
Heat: Atmo Burn to allow people to travel faster in/out of the atmosphere with ores like silver, gold, copper, etc with each having a range of heat dissapation
Hardness: How much damage absobsion a material has in terms of like titanium vs steel or bronze.
Conductivity: Where specific weapons work differently vs different metals
After that I would like to see another Talent Tree called Scientist in which you can alter the properties of metals / voxels or in a sense re-engineer the molecular properties of each of the ores. I think the Scientist could also have its own kind of industry in which you can mash different types of metals together to make alloys or composit materials which are completely custom or that can be used after that in industry crafting to make the Grades or Custom after market parts.
Or alternatively allow players to simply choose what kind of materials they want to add bsed on the values listed above which could make them completely different then they are now and help crafters to make various options for protection, speed, weight, durability, etc listed above into any item and where as the stock recipe would be balanced you could make the same item uniuqe which could break much faster or last a whole lot longer at the cost of something else.
A modular system would be a whole lot better then just pre-baked Tier versions of industrial machines which should focus more on the properties or mods you already get into the tree like byproducts, stats, bonus parts, numbers of mats, etc.
I also think that there should be wear and tear based on how long you fly or that other planets might be highly acidic and wear down your ship if you are on the surface. Industrial crafting should also have wear and tear associated with running the machines and require maintenence to keep them going too or even if you dont get PvP'd flying you will still incur damage over a long time requiring scrap repair. This should not be quick without allowing some kind of talent or using the material properties listed above.
The last thing I want to add would be to add random defects while producing items which could generate less crashes or durability, etc every so often.
The main thing here is to allow for stock items, grades, custom parts, after market parts and items that suit people for what they want to do. If you want the best of the best then it is highly desireable and gets destroyed faster making more money for those items along with grades. That way if you want to go cheap but last longer you can. If you want to risk more for more rewards or power you can at the cost of the life span of that item. If they add the Talent Trees mentioned above you could extend that lifespan a little more. Or customize any part to fit your style, color, etc.
You want to punish people from the top down who want to risk more not the bottom up people trying to claw their way up. People need time to learn the basics of how it works with some margin for error for each of the cores since you add over time for what you need before you test it or find out in that action that it aint going to work. Lots of test pilots have died doing experimental things. It takes a lot of trial and error in this game to get any ship off the ground as you go, but also that its the same story for each core progression as you see what you can actually handle. Its not our fault its just the nature of the beast until you finally fill it all out or you can get to the point a ship is fully optimized which again is a time based thing as you gain talents for putdown and other factors. You should not be punished for that.
The people who need to be punished the most is the Large orgs who are nabbing everything under the sun and set up to pvp. You need to give them more risk for more power within the confines of the system as it is now. Not the newbies or the smaller Orgs as they need to be allowed to grow in this system too as you can afford higher performance items or armor. It makes it more of a gap between the haves and have nots but it also comes with more risk, wear and tear, and other factors.
This way you get a lot more mileage out of your ship while still removing items from the game. Some people are way better then others at active flying if you arent using a flight script. The stock flight controls are not the best and honestly whoever re-wrote the whole flight system, NQ should buy it from them and add it to the game or hold public competitions for solo or group scripters to improve the game for custom exotic parts / recipies that use alien mats, or something. And just say hey we want to see what you can come up with for X and add the best ones in as stock standard scripts you can run since not everyone is good at coding. Its the same thing with art based assets or skins as people could make them for NQ through community events and add the best ones in. They should also consider adding a marketplace outside the game where people can sell them for cash and NQ takes their cut doing none of the work for stuff a fraction of the public would normally like or want since colors and skins are highly subjective anyways and you can do pretty much the same thing already with screens. Win/win.
I think this sums up everything this Destructive System needs to make it viable and semi realistic and less punishing for this trying to climb up the ladder while still giving leeway and options for those who want to push the limits and properly punishing those people while still taking items out of the game at an acceptable rate which wont cause everyone to kill the market because they are hoarding items in case their whole fleet breaks at once unexpectedly or that because you can blow up containers will cause scarcity along with mass inflation in the proposed system which will pretty much kill off any newbies joining with such stringent limitations.
Are the devs completely out of touch with how people have been playing their game for the past few months? And what's the point of calling it a sandbox if stuff is only supposed to be used in certain ways even if it seems like it could be used in a lot more?
May as well rename DU to "JC's Vision(tm)" and put as the description "Follow JC's Glorious ViSiOn and adhere to rigid rules as you fulfill his WiShEs".
Then I see no use at all for AGG as described...IF the ship can lift the weight without AGG and navigate from the ground anyhow....What then is ANY use of Agg as it can already obvously navigate at 1000M in atmos. Could JC provide a scenario so we understand the intended use? Also how the heck do powerful engines and fuel park anything above a base?
Here's something fun to consider. Someone on the discord was able to create a script that, with 3 points for triangulation, can tell you exactly what angle and direction to dig to find the closest node.
Why couldn't this be baseline?
Excuse me? Are you saying no blueprints were made of those markets? 'Fixing' it should be as simple as deleting the old construct and replacing it. A task that would take a couple minutes, maximum, with the blueprints.
This is a reaction I would expect from children in a sandbox, not mature adults.
edit: Apparently the 'quick fix' is a reference to the market orders.
To which I have exactly one reply: What?
Market orders should be stored in the database and no removal of market constructs should EVER affect those.
Just gonna quote this gem from Discord from ~1.5 months ago:
Womble said: "Their materials science and geology is %&$#ed. Eff You Bee Ay Arrr. Quartz as the source for silicon, when there are oceans and oceans of sand. You can get Calcium out of Limestone, but not Carbon. Coal existing as discrete pockets all over the place on every planet. Viciously reactive metals and gases being used as structural materials, and Gold being the toughest armour. Hope they change much of this because it's just %$&#in' ridiculous when they're aiming at "plausibility" with their Newtonian physics and "complex" manufacturing chains, and adds nothing at all to gameplay."
True. It's possible to surface mine up to 24k liters of T1 ore per hour, or 14k liters of T2 ore per hour. Tedious and boring, as well.