Sabretooth

This game was fine as a sandbox building game, kind of a big empty LEGO world.
Lego builders dont need entertainment or gameplay, they just enjoy builds. Cities skylines players also just like builds, they like to just follow an npc and just look around.
Train-set builders also do nothing but to watch their builds.
I think this game would attract so many builders from every corner around the world, that it would always have enough ingame players, and maybe not too many at once as some would always take a break.
 
Too bad nq didn't focus on the building/trading part and give us more things to build and trade with.
They gave us a false start with unrealistic sized doors, couches and beds, 3 types of toilets, the most useless empty plantcase and no xs space fueltank. Also crazy core sizes which make no sense to me, why 63(127-255-511) voxels and not 64 (128-256-512)?
Instead of adding more types of wings, doors, cockpits, trees, npc elements (ive made these myself with voxels later on, even made them interactive with detection zones and transparent screens), nq cut down on builders. 
There is lua for ships on water, something nq should have implemented themselves. I know for sure people would start digging canals (because of the ugly random generated planet with puddles) and just sail on them for fun. Videos of ingame builds would flood the tube channels.
The builders needed more things to easily make quests so we could make more adventures, to aquire items to open doors in mazes and labyrinths. Now it was only possible in lua.
I think, that players would subscribe just to see the amazing world that has been build by players. 
 
Nq could have focused on building(what this game started with). Expanding the game with the lua-ideas, just like other games implemented mods from the community, and adding elements that have a proper function.
But nq focused on destroying. Pvp, limiting and wiping that is.
And now you are here, a full wipe (so no world) and a few players.
 
Pvp bashing by me:
Pvp in this game is the fugliest version of space combat i have ever seen, even space invaders is more dynamic, at least you can dodge in space invaders! Territory warfare in this game would be just as ugly, boring and untactical as spacewar in this game is. You cant hide behind an asteroid, so why would you be able to hide behind a hill?
Pvp in this state kicks out the creativity of building. 
Pvp in this game reminds me of those old atari 5600 games, where the box art was nowhere near the ingame screenshots or the gameplay.
Tactics do not exist in this game.
 
In the end, I am sure that this game had more potential for a sandbox building game, than a pvp game.
But hey, nq is trying to proof me wrong, so ill keep an eye out.
 
 
Edit after 5 likes:
Its about this game being fine after 0.23

This game was fine as a sandbox building game, kind of a big empty LEGO world.
Lego builders dont need entertainment or gameplay, they just enjoy builds. Cities skylines players also just like builds, they like to just follow an npc and just look around.
Train-set builders also do nothing but to watch their builds.
I think this game would attract so many builders from every corner around the world, that it would always have enough ingame players, and maybe not too many at once as some would always take a break.
 
Too bad nq didn't focus on the building/trading part and give us more things to build and trade with.
They gave us a false start with unrealistic sized doors, couches and beds, 3 types of toilets, the most useless empty plantcase and no xs space fueltank. Also crazy core sizes which make no sense to me, why 63(127-255-511) voxels and not 64 (128-256-512)?
Instead of adding more types of wings, doors, cockpits, trees, npc elements (ive made these myself with voxels later on, even made them interactive with detection zones and transparent screens), nq cut down on builders. 
There is lua for ships on water, something nq should have implemented themselves. I know for sure people would start digging canals (because of the ugly random generated planet with puddles) and just sail on them for fun. Videos of ingame builds would flood the tube channels.
The builders needed more things to easily make quests so we could make more adventures, to aquire items to open doors in mazes and labyrinths. Now it was only possible in lua.
I think, that players would subscribe just to see the amazing world that has been build by players. 
 
Nq could have focused on building(what this game started with). Expanding the game with the lua-ideas, just like other games implemented mods from the community, and adding elements that have a proper function.
But nq focused on destroying. Pvp, limiting and wiping that is.
And now you are here, a full wipe (so no world) and a few players.
 
Pvp bashing by me:
Pvp in this game is the fugliest version of space combat i have ever seen, even space invaders is more dynamic, at least you can dodge in space invaders! Territory warfare in this game would be just as ugly, boring and untactical as spacewar in this game is. You cant hide behind an asteroid, so why would you be able to hide behind a hill?
Pvp in this state kicks out the creativity of building. 
Pvp in this game reminds me of those old atari 5600 games, where the box art was nowhere near the ingame screenshots or the gameplay.
Tactics do not exist in this game.
 
In the end, I am sure that this game had more potential for a sandbox building game, than a pvp game.
But hey, nq is trying to proof me wrong, so ill keep an eye out.
 
 
Edit after 5 likes:
Its about this game being fine after 0.23

NQ's wipe is like: someone you love but everytime you ask him/her to start a relationship he/she says 'I dont know'.  Asking every day for a month and still: I dont know...
Can we just date, can we just be friends on Facebook? I dont know...
 
So the thing imma trying to say is how lots of (ex)players are acting on this forum. Its almost pathetic to read and see. 
 
Dont you guys get the message??? Make up your minds and continue with your lives! 
 
No means no!!
 
I myself renewed my sub in January, 8 days later the pancake-wipe update was introduced to me and I instantly quit. I am a grown man over my 40s and I do not fool around. The deathmeter-wipe put me on the edge and the pancake-wipe pushed me over.
 
I wish all the ppl who play and who dont play lots of fun, but people please.... Be a sensible adult and quit being stubborn. 
 

The truest words I ever did hear!

Makes me sad, but I think you nailed it. I think the slowing forums show others are getting what you said as well.
 
 

There is a difference between your stuff not being safe outside safe zones, and your stuff being automatically given away to other players.
And since DU was supposed to be persistent, upkeep should have been something to keep the wheels turning with regards to industry etc. (aka power system) and not this cop out 10 minutes of dev time taxes deal wich makes no sense with regard to the game lore etc (land was given away for free in the 1800's wild west to incentivize settlements).
 
So what NQ did just tells me that they have given up on ever implementing territory warfare, which was how this whole not in a safe-zone / upkeep thing was supposed to work.

Where are your stuffs ?
Certainly in our containers. We didn't need them but we took them anyway.
NQ didn't develop PvP, but allowed the PvE mob to plunder the possessions of a ton of defenseless players. This is literally grieffing.
Your abandoned belongings weren't even destroyed, they were given away massively to other players.

I don't understand how NQ can not want their former player back so much.
But reassure you, all will be reset to 0 for everyone. In any case, you would never have been able to keep your belongings.

NQ's wipe is like: someone you love but everytime you ask him/her to start a relationship he/she says 'I dont know'.  Asking every day for a month and still: I dont know...
Can we just date, can we just be friends on Facebook? I dont know...
 
So the thing imma trying to say is how lots of (ex)players are acting on this forum. Its almost pathetic to read and see. 
 
Dont you guys get the message??? Make up your minds and continue with your lives! 
 
No means no!!
 
I myself renewed my sub in January, 8 days later the pancake-wipe update was introduced to me and I instantly quit. I am a grown man over my 40s and I do not fool around. The deathmeter-wipe put me on the edge and the pancake-wipe pushed me over.
 
I wish all the ppl who play and who dont play lots of fun, but people please.... Be a sensible adult and quit being stubborn. 
 

This !!
 
I stopped all my subscriptions a day after the initial post from NQ (Shedding some fog ....)
With every day passing by my distance from the game grows - to get me back in this game NQ would have to produce a miracle.

I think Dual Universe has made two terrible decisions moving into launch.
 
First is the mining units. By allowing anyone to simply purchase mining units to gain all tiers of ore passively, they are going to flood the market with raw ore. Mining should be an art, and something that people spend time doing. Mining should be a career! To allow anyone to mine any material (albeit some more skilled than others) you take away from people who want to be miners. Obtaining ore should be a time consuming process that people have to dedicate themselves to. By simply having enough money to set up mining operations anywhere by dropping a few constructs, you take the profitability of mining away from others who want to focus on that career. The mining unit was a terrible choice. I've suggested it before in another thread that if you want to do away with permanent holes in the ground, make mining happen in instances. There are so many ways you can do this, and make materials discoverable based on mining skill. Make mining a real profession!
 
Secondly, getting rid of schematics is a terrible idea. For those of us that played after schematics came about, it really isn't a big deal. In fact, I love having schematics in the game. It makes zero sense that everyone can create anything without an investment in time. Without having some barriers to industry the market will be flooded with product which is a devastating effect on their value. Industry should be hard. It should take a lot of time, dedication, and investment to be effective at. If anyone can make anything, why even have a market? 
 
If you destroy mining and industry by not making them a focused profession, than what is left for players? Building ships so you can fight over space territories. Well, guess what, not everyone wants to do that! Some people enjoy being a support role. Producing things that an organization needs and providing value for their time. If you make everything stupid easy, the game will fail. I guarantee you. 

The video would have to be many hours longer for you to understand the actual game mechanics that it takes hours to get from a planet to an alien core station depending on the ship. The mechanics should be presented more clearly, especially that you don't notice many battles with ships, but at most see a blue ship icon with distance and name. Most of the time, the ships do not render at all because of the distance, as the video suggests.
There is also no indication that you can only "play" a battle by clicking "select ship, identify, shoot". There are no great flight manoeuvres to avoid being shot at. The ships themselves looked great in the video, but this is hardly reality, because they are often elementary ships in order to keep the ship size as small as possible and now also to minimise the weight due to the maximum speed.
I generally feel that the time you have to invest in the game to finally get to a point where you can really play and have fun is too extreme. Has NQ really thought about what exactly a player is supposed to do while flying through space for 2-6 hours? Whether it's a mission or now the alien cores.What exactly do the developers expect the game to be perceived as? In our organisation, people watch series or films on the side or simply start another game. Excuse me - but is that really the way it's meant to be? You have to consider that we use high-quality hardware to play the game, as well as then (at least here in Germany) a high value of electricity costs to implement this hobby - and NQ expects me to "play" a game while I tune out the game to do other things? This reminds me of the browser games that you start once a day, send your ships somewhere to attack something, click through the productions and then go offline again to check the next day whether everything had worked.
The video itself, well, you notice that not much time and money was put into it, which is understandable at the moment, as you are happy for every sign of life from the game.
 

I don't care about money of my subs.
I don't care about talent points because they are 100% passive nonsense.
I don't care about quanta or constructs.
 
I do care about my time. Time I've invested to this game.
 
I'm 66 years old, my time is slowly coming short.
Life is most valuable asset I have. Ever day, every hour i spend in this game I have less and less of my time left. It is not infinite.
 
@NQ When considering this wipe issue, please respect your players time.

It kind of seems like everyone who wants a wipe has a list of stuff that other people have too much of, that should be wiped.  And a list of stuff that's important to them, that they should get to keep.
 
That's not a wipe.  That's just begging NQ to take other people's stuff, and let you keep yours.
 

Funny.
If you can keep your talent points, it's not a full wipe.
So you are against a fullwipe, but claim they would accept the fullwipe.

Nope, still dont like it, I dont like to be restricted in a former free world.
 
You gave me the chance to save my current 175core spacestation(org 1) and the ship-shop (org 2), but afterwards I cannot expand it.
I also wonder how it is going to affect my current slots. If you save my station and shop, will I stil have 100/100 slots?
 
And yes, under 40 orgs have maybe over 200 cores, but most players have multiple orgs that work as one. I have 1 org that handles the spacestation cores, and another org that handels my ships and the shipshop. So its a bit, you know, not fair to say that there are ONLY 40 orgs that are over the 200 cores. The setup for this game made it so that we had to make 'divisions' for our builds.
 
And the game looks empty already, with just landscapes and few buildings. How are you at NQ going to implement content with these building restrictions?
 
Also Id like to invite a few devs to come to my base and you can takedown my "MEX 5 series Flight" M-core ship. Maybe then you will realise how much time that takes, and you wont just throw a statement out that reads: "just tear down your builds".
 

Nobody asked why you are choosing random construct abandonment, because nobody cares. The only issue is the plainly objective fact that this solution is vastly unacceptable, and you need to find another one. All the narcissistic batshit insane troll logic in the world won't make that fact go away.

I don't post often on forums (almost never) but this time I'd like to give my PoV on this whole core debate.

Personnal context :
- I'm the super legate of a micro-org, "Blue Star". We are basically 2 in it (+ few not active members). We are successful because of my builds and libraries that most of you have, at least, heard about.
- My only goal in this game is building. I'd like to PvP but for me it is too boring currently.
- I'm quite casual for now, I want to see if the game effectively release and survive before investing more time in it.
- We currently have an HQ + 3 mining outpost made. For a total of around 110 cores. Many of them are used to show the constructs/libraries we are selling. Aside from this, we have almost NOTHING. No big outpost, only few ships.

About this new patch :
I fully understand that a limit MUST be put in place. But be carefull. In a blog post you said that you based your number on the CURRENT medium amount of core owned by player. BUT keep in mind that this medium will rise over time.
In your latest blog post, you said :
So basically you are saying :
"On average people have a home of 65m². So we decided that from now on, no one would have the right to exceed 80m²."
That is plain stupid. I hope that this is not the main reason behind your decision.

If in this beta stage (erhm, alpha), if you are already limiting too much the amount of construct, that means we will not be able to build more in the NEAR future. So basically it's a "game over".
Yes, we can ask for help from everyone to get some of those sweet "org core". But be honest, most people will keep them for themselves or their own org.

Everyone doesn't want to be member of a very large org. People who have many core are usually those who drives the game's community forward with big projects, social media presence, etc.
By limiting them, you will limit the capacity of your game to go viral and also reduce the fun of it. A "civilisation building" game ? Without big cities or space station ? How boring is that ? 

For my personnal case :
- 50 personnal cores + 50 org core (with the 2 players we are) > we stop the game NOW. We are already above this limit. So we can't do anything new in the future. No reason to play.
- 100 personnal cores + 100 org core > it's better, but we are still close to the limit. We will reach it quite soon. It is not motivating and we will probably also stop playing. With this limit Cities and big station projects are still in danger.
- 300 cores is starting to be okay for the long run.

To be honest, this limitation would be probably better received if there was many other gameplay loop aside from building. But currently, building is the only well-made enough gameplay loop available in this game. Limiting it now will be a disaster.

You are out of money and have no choice ? 
As a game developper myself, I will say : Ok, stops the studio NOW or find new investors.
It is useless to push update that will kill your player base more. You can only lose more money over time.

Sorry for the long post in my broken english. I hope it is useful for someone.

That's nonsense!
The problem is not players who build too much, but all the beta key players who generate costs but no revenue because there is no paid subscription.
Take all the free players and convert them to subscriptions. Those who no longer pay lose their property after 4 weeks and it is released "for looting". 
I also can't imagine that these few players who have built very large projects are the problem, when at the same time we are talking about the fact that on average only 25 constructs were used by the players. Some players have only 1-5 constructs, others only 5-50...that should compensate for the few who build an enormous number of constructs.
There were also several suggestions on how to compensate for these additional costs. Either through a premium subscription or through an in-game shop where you can unlock more places by paying extra for them.
At the moment, it doesn't matter to me whether one player builds 1000 cores to create a city or 10 players create a city. In the end, most cities are unplayable in terms of performance anyway and have no "use" other than looking nice. 
For myself, well, I've made friends with fewer cores now - let's see when the next restriction comes, it wasn't the first downgrading of the limitations. But what is much more annoying is that there is hardly any game content that keeps you busy and makes it fun. By that I don't mean "obligations" like paying taxes or mindless calibrations - that's no fun! The game could offer so much more by now to give players variety and interesting content, instead it is still tinkering with basic problems as if it were more of an alpha.

 

That is the thing, it would seem NQ actually did.
JC used to talk about communities building mega cities sprawling the planets and space stations the size of moons. And that was the game they sold players.
And when we the community questioned the validity of this, it was NQ that either just remained silent of said it was fine.
 
So I have absolutely no pity left in me for NQ and the problems they are facing.

See this is why the Alt thing seems like it's messing up this whole discussion.
 
NQ isn't trying to limit cores, they are trying to decide how many each player should be given, with the purchase of a subscription.  But because the subject of Alts is touchy, i feel like they were kind of tiptoeing around how you go about buying more.  Until Deckard's post at least.
 
There are definitely players in the game right now with 300-400+ cores, who are using every single one of them, or contributing to the game in some way with them.  But there are also a lot of people with some junk lying around.  Myself included.  
 
The players with the junk, need to be encouraged to clean it up, because real estate in the game has value.  And the players who actually need 400 cores, need to start paying a bit more than everyone else.
 
You shouldn't feel like they are trying to stop you from building, you should feel like they are cleaning up their product (making it profitable, ect), to make room to sell you the ability to build as much as you want.
 

Dont know if you noticed but your in the middle of a slow rolling wipe. They can do all the countermeasures they want like abandoning cores, taxes, sinks, limits, etc but with all the changes its unavoidable the direction they are going. They might not be doing it all at once with a clean wipe and a fresh start but all the taxes, abandons, sinks, limits, etc are doing just that and if you dont see the pattern or that players are leaving anyways its going to wipe itself clean eventually of both assets and players alike.
 
#takealookaround

This right here ^. Our small org all feels like this.
 
Its like every update is yet another setback, roadblock, kneecap, setback, etc in the sense 
 
First it was schematics that ballooned our industry by 75% of what we actually needed to like 5000 machines for 3 people, destructive elements flip flop that actually helped the game, removing voxel mining, adding MUs that have been a chore/job and are part of what killing the economy, building a base with nothing else to do being techered to our tiles, and now they want to abandon our cores if we dont touch them, tax us, as well as abandon our cores so that we can reclaim them before someone else claims our work for us for no real reason.
 
Its like NQ has a sado masichist running their studio that just likes to cause unnecessary chaos working on systems nobody wants or asks for with no communication at all about them till is like surprise we killed your puppy again in a constant grief, abuse, and punishment cycle rather than actually spending their time, money, and effort into making an actual gameplay loop and constantly killing off segments of their playerbase they dont like because they dont understand gaming psychology and the different types of gamers they should be building rather than forcing everyone to thread the narrow minded window view of the game NQ has.
 
Or that they dont even know what kind of game they have built, the types of gamers it actually appeals to or why people play the way they do or for what purpose. Whatever JC set out to do was always DOA and it seems like NQ without him at the helm is finishing DU off.
 
Its like sure this time its core jurisdicational transfer and chaos breaking up an org and only needing 16 dedicated members per org that actually kills most orgs or projects like the D6-12 train project when the real issue is the need and the ability of being part of an org, creating a pocket org per person, and the loose nature of orgs when if NQ just had no real upward limit or like 10k/10k ships/buildings with this new system and only let you join 1 org it would do the same thing. and now you cant tokenize personal cores.
 
But on top of that whats the point if you cant trust anyone now to not unsub, pull cores since you only get 1600 and only so many are part of the org or those with multiple beta keys dont need other people messing things up more.
 
Its like what is the next shoe to drop if I continue playing or my friends continue playing. There is already not much to do in game since there is no PvE content, PvP is de post facto at this point, and the only meta is mine, produce, sell to just perpetually scale your ops to just keep endlessly producing more and watering down the economy that much faster with nothing to spend it on or do with it.
 
There is no real reason to throw away billions on PvP or that NQ has adopted a DvP meta in which you can really only take a 2 week break before things start going abandoned and with taxes constantly rolling any break you take kills your MUs, industry, and pushes you straight off the treadmill anyways at which points is like do you really want to rip down billions of voxels by hand along with hundreds of thousands of elements or do you just call it one.
 
Because there are just too many better games on the market that do all this better with a lot of content and dev teams who just care more about their communities to throw it all away every like this without actually having the intelligence to see what it does to their communities without treating their players like children by saying "you all seem to be confused to let me explain it to you really slowly and sugar coat it so that you keep paying us".
 
Everyone should stop logging in till NQ either comes to their senses or they scrap the new core system entiresly. If its not broke than why fix it or just give higher core limits in general in orgs so large orgs dont need like 30 sister orgs because of core caps and pocket orgs etc.
 
 
@NQ I really hope that you guys can actually come to your senses and build a game as its not just DU on the line as much as all your careers at stake now. I know if I see any of you clowns on a project im gunning for you being fired and any studio can see this slow motion trainwreck and should steer clear if your inability to develop anything.

Ever since the devblog about core limits released, I've not wanted to play. 
 
I logged in for 2 minutes to take a screenshot of my base and to queue up more core talents.
 
I'm satisfied with the new proposed limits.  Before I was going to be maybe 10 cores over the limit and now I'll have breathing room for the future.
 
Other than that, I've been watching the discord chat do it's usual thing, people saying that anyone complaining about core limits are worthless and should just leave the game.  People throwing out insults and calling people names.  Why on earth would I want to join a group with people like that?  Am I supposed to join an org with people like that who I wouldn't trust in my most desperate hour?  If they're my only lifeline, I'd rather just call it quits than trust them with even the smallest thing.  I wouldn't take a ride from one market to another from somebody who does nothing but insult and berate other people everytime their name pops up in chat.
 
It's been that way for a while, PVPer's calling people carebears for not wanting to fight in PVP space and screaming for territory warfare and safezones to come down so they have something to destroy.  People constantly saying they want a wipe to set everyone back to square one and if you speak up against a wipe you're told you're selfish and have mental issues in real life. 
 
Maybe some people do have issues in life and they play a game to escape?
 
Now, I have no confidence on what the future looks like.  I wouldn't be surprised if a wipe is required and I've wasted my time building things.  Some people like to destroy things and that's ok, but they want to destroy everything made by people who don't like PVP and play for a creative outlet.  And they're loud and vocal and never stop on their crusade to wipe the game and run off anyone who doesn't think or play like they do.
 
I know not all PVPer's are bad, cruel people, but it's that vocal few that color my entire view of that portion of the game.
 
So now, I can log in and MU calibrate and cut down on core counts and wait for the vertex tool which I've wanted for months, only to constantly have it in the back of my mind that everything will be wiped or some other change will be put in place like territory warfare so that somebody can come and take my solo base just to see me get upset.  I won't rant about it happening in discord when the time comes, I'll just slide silently out the side door flipping the bird to everyone as I go.
 
This whole fiasco has ruined my mood around the game and left me with very little confidence that things will work out in the end.  Maybe I'm just "too emotional and need some help".  I've come to expect overwhelmingly negative feedback from other players so I expect it.
 
For now, I don't have the energy or desire to play the game, just log on and put money in tiles and wait and see if things get better or worse for my desired gameplay style.
 
 

ok, i'll better get started to remove a lot of stuff. i have dispensers wiuth free stuff at various locations.
i have the Marina with all boats that are in this game that use my LUA.
i have mining units various static cores for my showroom with landing plattforms
i have my infrastructure withj various elevators, space cores and bases on remote places.
i have various ships at all of my bases.
this sums up to way over 200 cores.. probably more 250-300

As i still need my infrastructure, elevators mining units and ships i start with dispensers for free stuff on xs cores and than i will probably have to remove all ships from my marina.

i don not want to go out begging for org core # from other players. i did all of this as a single player and do  not have any plan to change this.

so my contribution to content in this game unluckily has to shrink significantly.
And Honestly NQ : I DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS

if we are supposed to build the content in this game  we need the tools & possibilities to do it.
my progression in a game like this should not be limited to having a fat wallet one day and lots of BP's representing previous milestones. but as it looks today. my progress only can be measured in quanta and the content created can always only be visible for some time before cores run out again.

And did NQ think about how much work it is to manually remove about 200 constructs?