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True maybe execute them?

 

Perhaps. Some game mechanic requires you to either execute or release your prisoner after a set amount of time; say, 48 hours.

 

And to prevent abuse, they cannot be recaptured for another six hours or something

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i find it hard to see anything positive coming from being able to take slaves or prisoners. im pretty sure the people who got captured would just log off until after they where released.

 

in the end any mechanic that makes the player feel like logging off is the most entertaining option might not be the wisest choice to make.

 

also now that im thinking about it, being enslaved or put in prison by the players might just feel like a worse punishment than just getting a ban from the GM. and we all know that we cannot trust the gamer population as a whole with that type of power, some of the worst humans alive are within our ranks.

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i find it hard to see anything positive coming from being able to take slaves or prisoners. im pretty sure the people who got captured would just log off until after they where released.

 

in the end any mechanic that makes the player feel like logging off is the most entertaining option might not be the wisest choice to make.

 

also now that im thinking about it, being enslaved or put in prison by the players might just feel like a worse punishment than just getting a ban from the GM. and we all know that we cannot trust the gamer population as a whole with that type of power, some of the worst humans alive are within our ranks.

KYS jk

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Now to have an actual discussion,

That sounds interesting to you Lady, do you have any thoughts on the mechanics for capturing prisoners of war? Do you think player equipment will be valuable enough that people won't just /suicide and  rather than might try to do something to gain freedom?

OCD aside, there should be percentual skillpoints loss, so if you fall below a threshold you lose access to the skills you unlocked with a certain milestone skillpoints-wise. Boom, /suicide deterred. And let's face it, nobody wants prrisoners. If the enemy has guns, they won't drop them, they will try to escape manually or die trying. Or even more hilariously so, hijack your fancy RP-wise modelled ride and make a run for it, yelling "SO LONG, SUCKERRRRS" (the rolling R is to demonstrate their yarrr side.)

 

 

And as I said, don't throw ideals left and right like that. Nobody cared for slavery in the US, until the Union started losing the Civil War and needed more meat for the grinder. So yeah, you can do that in the game without having a bondage minigame (cause, let's face it, it's a bondage minigame, there's no need for beating-off around the bush on that one). Invade and overtake a region, then make them swear fealty if they want to not be destoryed, if they oblige and send people to war for your side, it's a call of duty they honored, if not, go and start demolishing their pwetty statues one by one and take their claim rights away. You know, standard authoritarian imperialism.

 

 

P.S. : Imperialism is not a political system, is a word demostrating a nation's attitude. The opposite is isolationism. Pick your poison, there's no right choice on this one. And for the record, I am a salty over anything. I find humanity and all its future and past generations to be hypocrites. it doesn't matter to me if you are furry, cyberpunk (which I am), goth or whatever gender you are or sexuality you were born, or selected, to orientate to, I find everyone to be a hypocrite in one shape or another. I on the other hand, I admit it, I'm a salty one that hates any sort of oppression and removal of freedom via bondage. There's a BIG BIG difference in taking a person's freedom and making them choose to stay down. My suggestions, are for people to be given a fighting chance, because I'm a civilised one. Bondage, is what savages use. ( Certain situation excluded, we are all savages there.)

 

 

Peace. Let's keep our debate on a PM basis Neopolitan, there's no need for people to tolerate our prides clashing.

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If this would be implemented, I would take whatever penalty there was for suicide to not be a slave. If I couldn't attempt to kill my captor then I would suicide. Being a slave in a game would be about as fun as bolting my sack to concrete. I don't play games that aren't fun; for very long anyway.

 

I'm good with the illusion of choice. I'll mine, just pay me. Shit.

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Wage-slavery can. It has turned us all into gears of the system. I don't see any difference if a big org can wage-slave people to grind for them in exchange for safety and a patch of land for the common folk to call home.

 

Even though I'm a socialist and not a communist, I'm tots down for starting a Red Octomber situation. 

Wage slavery is possible when you aren't born naturally owning your own land. And you need permission from a government to hunt your own food.

What circumstances do you foresee in DU that can lead to wage-slavery?

 

I suppose if I'm in space on a multi-crew ship, I could suddenly find myself trapped on the ship without permissions to access food.

So, ostensibly, the owner of the ship would try to force me into "slave" labor... but, what else would I be doing on the ship? Sleeping?

If I'm sent down to a planet to harvest, I would probably be able to live off the land away from the slavers.

Worst case scenario, I kill myself and respawn at an Arkship - away from the slavers.

And hang out with friends who aren't slavers.

I don't see how it's possible to enforce wage-slavery in Dual Universe.

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Wage slavery is possible when you aren't born naturally owning your own land. And you need permission from a government to hunt your own food.

What circumstances do you foresee in DU that can lead to wage-slavery?

 

I suppose if I'm in space on a multi-crew ship, I could suddenly find myself trapped on the ship without permissions to access food.

So, ostensibly, the owner of the ship would try to force me into "slave" labor... but, what else would I be doing on the ship? Sleeping?

If I'm sent down to a planet to harvest, I would probably be able to live off the land away from the slavers.

Worst case scenario, I kill myself and respawn at an Arkship - away from the slavers.

And hang out with friends who aren't slavers.

I don't see how it's possible to enforce wage-slavery in Dual Universe.

I don't know, why do you work for your paycheck? Why don't you leave your home and go live in the wilds, away from wage-slavery along other free spirited people like you, if there are any that is. 

 

You know why. Because you got needs and you got costs. Even in WoW they had the DKP or whatever it is called now system, where you went in a raid and got scraps of imaginary money to bid on an item later on. Which was way better, than the dictatorship the "loot councils" were later on, which were true slavery and feet-kissing at its finest. And you know that there are people who willingly become "slaves" or "pets" to the popular guys. Because people are envious, people are jealous, people want to belong. It's human nature. It's why people steal, it's why people do horrible things to each other, one of them, is climatising people to think with rewards.

 

"Eat your vegetables, and you will get to eat ice-cream after food."

 

"Finish your homework and you'll get to watch TV tonight."

 

"If you come in over the weekend for work, you'll get a chance for a promotion ;) "

 

And an in-game corporation can pull of a grinding scheme for lower ranking players.

 

"Bring back sixty tons of this and that and you'll get a big paycheck to go buy whatever you want." 

 

Then you can be a free-lance, an agent for yourself. Well, good luck, the market is pretty cutthroat and you'll never be able to compete with an organisation that dwarves you as of resources and can pull on people's strings when it comes to progression. It's how poaching players was in PvE guilds in WoW. "Why stay with those guys who can't clear X raid, when we farm that raid in 5 hours broh?" Same concept, different context. 

 

And I foresee a skillpoints loss penalty, possibly double the amount to ensure people don't choose death so easily, especially on higher skill tiers, with the loss being percentual.

 

 

Unless you never had the "privilege" of being an employee, to which I say, you're lucky person.

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Yes in real life you can't really escape wage slavery easily, but that's one of many, many reasons for playing a game. In Game, unless the entire planet is claimed there will be places to go to make your own way. I don't absolutely have to rely on anyone else for anything, sure it may be faster as a team, but it would need to be a mutually beneficial team. At least for those of us that start playing in the beginning.

 

People that start playing later may end up working for shit pay on the starting planet, until they find a way off to another planet.

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In Game, unless the entire planet is claimed there will be places to go to make your own way. I don't absolutely have to rely on anyone else for anything, sure it may be faster as a team, but it would need to be a mutually beneficial team.

Start playing EVE Online and you'll se your mistake ;)

 

If game is complex enough, it is impossible to be stand alone - you must rely on some bigger powerblock. And this - if the difference of power is big enough - is easy way to being virtually slave.

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That sounds interesting Lady, do you have any thoughts on the mechanics for capturing prisoners of war? Do you think player equipment will be valuable enough that people wont just /suicide and might try to do something to gain freedom?

 

My proposed idea: Prisoner of War.

 

In-game mechanic: PvP

 

Objective: To obtain prisoners during PvP battles to gain a desired resource. Either currency, resources, or simply a strategic negotiating tool to gain land.

 

How could it work: In order to be able to obtain a prisoner, you first need to make a Capture Unit. This will enable the obtaining of one prisoner per unit, and each unit will not be easy to make or acquire. Reason being, if they are too easy to make, then too many people will be taken as prisoner, which isn't ideal, and should probably only be reserved for special circumstances. It would also ensure organizations only use a Negotiation Unit when it is a strategic necessity.

 

I envision a Capture Unit to work much like a ball and chain. In that, when placed and activated it can target the desired player, and essentially hold them in place, moving only when the player in control of the Capture Unit, enables them to move, and move only where the controller moves. 

 

The Capture Unit could come in two parts. A larger element of it could reside at a base. Much like a cryo-chamber. When captive has been taken by the mobile portion of the unit, which you would carry on you, they can be teleported essentially, to the cryo-prison chamber and held there.

 

Now, no player would want to be held indefinitely, there needs to be a limit. Long enough for ransom bartering to be effective, but not too long. If it's too short it would be ineffective.

 

If no ransom is agreed, there needs to be a penalty to the prisoner. That penalty, in my view, would need to be harsh enough to prompt an organization to want to rescue their comrade. So at the end of the countdown limit, if no ransom deal is reached, the prisoner must die. 

 

Possibly ressurect at the location they were captured, or less harshly, at their own location. 

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Yes in real life you can't really escape wage slavery easily, but that's one of many, many reasons for playing a game. In Game, unless the entire planet is claimed there will be places to go to make your own way. I don't absolutely have to rely on anyone else for anything, sure it may be faster as a team, but it would need to be a mutually beneficial team. At least for those of us that start playing in the beginning.

 

People that start playing later may end up working for shit pay on the starting planet, until they find a way off to another planet.

The point is that nobody is gonna enroll in an organisation for "teamwork, fun and the Allioth dream" good sir. They'll want a pay, which is why many hope for a salary system. You gotta create insentive for a guy to not bail on your organisation. They already said that founding members of an organisation will be treated as shareholders. Prepape for some heated chairmen councils :P 

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I don't know, why do you work for your paycheck? Why don't you leave your home and go live in the wilds, away from wage-slavery along other free spirited people like you, if there are any that is. 

 

You know why. Because you got needs and you got costs. Even in WoW they had the DKP or whatever it is called now system, where you went in a raid and got scraps of imaginary money to bid on an item later on. Which was way better, than the dictatorship the "loot councils" were later on, which were true slavery and feet-kissing at its finest. And you know that there are people who willingly become "slaves" or "pets" to the popular guys. Because people are envious, people are jealous, people want to belong. It's human nature. It's why people steal, it's why people do horrible things to each other, one of them, is climatising people to think with rewards.

 

"Eat your vegetables, and you will get to eat ice-cream after food."

 

"Finish your homework and you'll get to watch TV tonight."

 

"If you come in over the weekend for work, you'll get a chance for a promotion ;) "

 

And an in-game corporation can pull of a grinding scheme for lower ranking players.

 

"Bring back sixty tons of this and that and you'll get a big paycheck to go buy whatever you want." 

 

Then you can be a free-lance, an agent for yourself. Well, good luck, the market is pretty cutthroat and you'll never be able to compete with an organisation that dwarves you as of resources and can pull on people's strings when it comes to progression. It's how poaching players was in PvE guilds in WoW. "Why stay with those guys who can't clear X raid, when we farm that raid in 5 hours broh?" Same concept, different context. 

 

And I foresee a skillpoints loss penalty, possibly double the amount to ensure people don't choose death so easily, especially on higher skill tiers, with the loss being percentual.

 

 

Unless you never had the "privilege" of being an employee, to which I say, you're lucky person.

The main reason I don't live in the wilds is because I can't legally do so.

Also because I don't have sufficient skills to harvest food or build shelters.

And also because there are no resurrection bays to bring me back to life if some wild animal kills me.

 

In DU, we start with a territory unit that allows us to claim our own plot of land. That's free.

We start with a weapon that allows us to harvest food. That's free.

We will also be able to mine for resources - for free.

Start-up and survival in DU have no costs. It's a game; not real life.

 

WoW is not a voxel game. Also, WoW had vertical progression rather than DU'z horizontal progression.

In DU, we will be able to craft our own weapons for survival - no need to purchase weapons if we don't want to.

I never experienced loot councils in WoW - never even heard of loot councils. 

Raids and loot councils are not true slavery - you can leave a raid whenever you wish. Players cannot hunt you down and force you to raid against your will.

Some players choose -of their own free will- to beholden themselves to the whims of loot councils if they want BiS endgame gear.

"Willing slave" is an oxymoron.

 

People don't become slaves because they are envious, jealous or want to belong - people become slaves when they are conquered and have their self-reliance and free will stripped from them. 

There are some cultures that don't even have the concept of ownership or stealing - so neither is human nature.

Animal nature -life in general- includes horrible experiences and suffering, true. Even if it's just being afflicted with parasites and diseases. That has nothing to do with slavery. Since humans are social animals and social animals recognize fairness and unfairness, humans will expect some form of reciprocity for helping to make your life easier - just as primates and crows and other social animals do. But that has nothing to do with slavery.

 

Bribery is not slavery.

 

You might be able to entice newbies to grind for by promising them some reward they're interested in - but that isn't slavery. You reward slaves by allowing them to live. Characters in DU will live regardless of what you do.

I don't understand the concept of a paycheck in a voxel game. I mean, if that's the way you want to roleplay you can do so, but that's pretty stupid to me.

I don't need or want a paycheck in a voxel game. That's not the kind of relationship I would support.

What I will do is barter and trade - my services for other people's services. I might offer to gather 60 tons of resources for someone to build a ship for me since I don't expect to be a great ship builder, but that's not slavery - that is trading something I don't mind doing for something they don't mind doing.

They wouldn't be able to force me to gather anything when I'm not in the mood gather. Slavery is someone forcing you to work when you don't want to work.

 

I am non-competitive.

I'm not interested in competing against other organizations.

I am a hippie/commie/socialist co-operative player who loves to give stuff away for free - especially to friends.

I join socialist groups in games - we don't have to be capitalist in order to share resources with other players.

"Why stay with those guys in X raid?" A slave doesn't have the luxury of asking that question. A slave stays because they can't escape.

Non-slaves can choose to go with whomever they want.

 

Your foresight about the death penality and skill points is moot. You need evidence that it's accurate before it can be meaningful.

 

What you described in your rant isn't slavery.

Players will be able to choose to work for a pay check if they want to, but that's not slavery. Slaves don't get a pay check.

Players will be able to choose to grind in return for some material reward - but that's not slavery, either.

Slavery is people forcing you to work when you don't want to work - and typically at labor that you don't enjoy and wouldn't choose for yourself.

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The point is that nobody is gonna enroll in an organisation for "teamwork, fun and the Allioth dream" good sir. They'll want a pay, which is why many hope for a salary system. You gotta create insentive for a guy to not bail on your organisation. They already said that founding members of an organisation will be treated as shareholders. Prepape for some heated chairmen councils :P 

Well, I am someone. That's why I enrolled in COPS: for "teamwork, fun and the Alioth dream."

I don't want pay. I don't need incentive beyond having fun, altruism and enjoying the beauty of the created constructs to grind resources for Builders I like.

That's what friends are for.

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My proposed idea: Prisoner of War.

 

In-game mechanic: PvP

 

Objective: To obtain prisoners during PvP battles to gain a desired resource. Either currency, resources, or simply a strategic negotiating tool to gain land.

 

How could it work: In order to be able to obtain a prisoner, you first need to make a Capture Unit. This will enable the obtaining of one prisoner per unit, and each unit will not be easy to make or acquire. Reason being, if they are too easy to make, then too many people will be taken as prisoner, which isn't ideal, and should probably only be reserved for special circumstances. It would also ensure organizations only use a Negotiation Unit when it is a strategic necessity.

 

I envision a Capture Unit to work much like a ball and chain. In that, when placed and activated it can target the desired player, and essentially hold them in place, moving only when the player in control of the Capture Unit, enables them to move, and move only where the controller moves. 

 

The Capture Unit could come in two parts. A larger element of it could reside at a base. Much like a cryo-chamber. When captive has been taken by the mobile portion of the unit, which you would carry on you, they can be teleported essentially, to the cryo-prison chamber and held there.

 

Now, no player would want to be held indefinitely, there needs to be a limit. Long enough for ransom bartering to be effective, but not too long. If it's too short it would be ineffective.

 

If no ransom is agreed, there needs to be a penalty to the prisoner. That penalty, in my view, would need to be harsh enough to prompt an organization to want to rescue their comrade. So at the end of the countdown limit, if no ransom deal is reached, the prisoner must die. 

 

Possibly resurrect at the location they were captured, or less harshly, at their own location. 

The devs would never implement a mechanic like that.

Removing player agency like that would cause to many people to rage quit.

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The main reason I don't live in the wilds is because I can't legally do so.

Also because I don't have sufficient skills to harvest food or build shelters.

And also because there are no resurrection bays to bring me back to life if some wild animal kills me.

 

In DU, we start with a territory unit that allows us to claim our own plot of land. That's free.

We start with a weapon that allows us to harvest food. That's free.

We will also be able to mine for resources - for free.

Start-up and survival in DU have no costs. It's a game; not real life.

 

WoW is not a voxel game. Also, WoW had vertical progression rather than DU'z horizontal progression.

In DU, we will be able to craft our own weapons for survival - no need to purchase weapons if we don't want to.

I never experienced loot councils in WoW - never even heard of loot councils. 

Raids and loot councils are not true slavery - you can leave a raid whenever you wish. Players cannot hunt you down and force you to raid against your will.

Some players choose -of their own free will- to beholden themselves to the whims of loot councils if they want BiS endgame gear.

"Willing slave" is an oxymoron.

 

People don't become slaves because they are envious, jealous or want to belong - people become slaves when they are conquered and have their self-reliance and free will stripped from them. 

There are some cultures that don't even have the concept of ownership or stealing - so neither is human nature.

Animal nature -life in general- includes horrible experiences and suffering, true. Even if it's just being afflicted with parasites and diseases. That has nothing to do with slavery. Since humans are social animals and social animals recognize fairness and unfairness, humans will expect some form of reciprocity for helping to make your life easier - just as primates and crows and other social animals do. But that has nothing to do with slavery.

 

Bribery is not slavery.

 

You might be able to entice newbies to grind for by promising them some reward they're interested in - but that isn't slavery. You reward slaves by allowing them to live. Characters in DU will live regardless of what you do.

I don't understand the concept of a paycheck in a voxel game. I mean, if that's the way you want to roleplay you can do so, but that's pretty stupid to me.

I don't need or want a paycheck in a voxel game. That's not the kind of relationship I would support.

What I will do is barter and trade - my services for other people's services. I might offer to gather 60 tons of resources for someone to build a ship for me since I don't expect to be a great ship builder, but that's not slavery - that is trading something I don't mind doing for something they don't mind doing.

They wouldn't be able to force me to gather anything when I'm not in the mood gather. Slavery is someone forcing you to work when you don't want to work.

 

I am non-competitive.

I'm not interested in competing against other organizations.

I am a hippie/commie/socialist co-operative player who loves to give stuff away for free - especially to friends.

I join socialist groups in games - we don't have to be capitalist in order to share resources with other players.

"Why stay with those guys in X raid?" A slave doesn't have the luxury of asking that question. A slave stays because they can't escape.

Non-slaves can choose to go with whomever they want.

 

Your foresight about the death penality and skill points is moot. You need evidence that it's accurate before it can be meaningful.

 

What you described in your rant isn't slavery.

Players will be able to choose to work for a pay check if they want to, but that's not slavery. Slaves don't get a pay check.

Players will be able to choose to grind in return for some material reward - but that's not slavery, either.

Slavery is people forcing you to work when you don't want to work - and typically at labor that you don't enjoy and wouldn't choose for yourself.

 

You haven't heard of Loot Councils? Man you are lucky. When my guild went into ICC 25M Heroic, the Loot Councils were the rage. You guys rolled Need and Greed on items? Nice one, I wish to have seen the QQ going.

 

And stop withe straw-man arguements please. Progression and Voxel gameplay has nothing to do with creating a Skinner's Box within an organisation/guild/faction. You can call it DKP, SpaceCoins or Honorable Brony Patch, if it's a award that can be redeemed later on for something and it's an award claimed for doing something over and over again, that's called a job and jobs that are providing you enough to sustain you but not enough to make you wanna leave, is wage-slavery. And there are many sociopaths (as you might have noticed on this topic) that are actively seeking slavery in the game and they will use the Skinner method to achieve it. 

 

 

And you seem to be a very... uhm, straight shooting arrow kind of guy, no cunning involved, so here's a tip for free.

 

A lion's great strength is its mass and teeth.

 

A cheetah's is its speed.

 

A human's is its canning nature.

 

When you use force to make people your slaves, you end up with a rebellion. When you convince people to give up their free will, then you get McDonalds popping-up everywhere,

 

 

And you are the kind of people the machines will one day conquer, because you seem to think that doing the same quest in WoW , day in day out, to get those same gold rewards is tots fine, but a player? Giving you a quest?

 

THAT'S ABSURD. That's like some commie scheme!

 

That's like some french guy came up with the idea of a sandbox game, with emergent gameplay, a fleshed out organisation and economic system and wanted to make a voxel game based around it with thousands of players on the same server! Pffft, I mean, you wouldn't go and post your opinions on that forum right? You don't want emergent gameplay, you want NPCs with a blue question mark over their heads, giving you quests, rather than actual players, handing you jobs for a paycheck. 

 

 

Like it or not, there's going to be wage-slavery, because friends are going to play together and take missions together. Because the greatest fantasy in sci-fi games, is the mercenary kind of fantasy. Call it a smuggler, a hired gun, or a miner, people are going to set up a scheme to leash people to their organisation. And you also seem to underestimate the power of a habbit. Expect big organisations to be run by sociopaths. They always do.

 

Let's keep any further debate in PM. Nobody got to put up with our dispute over what qualifies as slavery.

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Start playing EVE Online and you'll se your mistake ;)

 

If game is complex enough, it is impossible to be stand alone - you must rely on some bigger powerblock. And this - if the difference of power is big enough - is easy way to being virtually slave.

 

No mistakes here  ;)  I've played Eve, not much, but enough to know that, in my opinion, it is a point-n-click bore-fest. Some of the concepts in that game are good, but I look at only one thing when I play a game; is it fun? My answer to Eve on this question is Nope. 

 

Yes, Eve is complex, but to me it is uninspiring. Watching 3 videos from Novaquark about DU has my mind spinning about the possibilities.

Maybe in 5 or 6 years DU may have large overarching Powerblocks, but the resources in this game are theoretically infinite, the ability to go somewhere else and build amazing things is kind of what this game is about. 

 

In this game, I'd like to think that eventually you can escape the politics,if they bother you too much and if you're adventurous.

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The devs would never implement a mechanic like that.

Removing player agency like that would cause to many people to rage quit.

 

I think designed better than I could dream up, it might work lol, but yes I know of PvP players who ragequit at the slightest thing, so being held as prisoner would probably be intolerable.

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You haven't heard of Loot Councils? Man you are lucky. When my guild went into ICC 25M Heroic, the Loot Councils were the rage. You guys rolled Need and Greed on items? Nice one, I wish to have seen the QQ going.

 

And stop withe straw-man arguements please. Progression and Voxel gameplay has nothing to do with creating a Skinner's Box within an organisation/guild/faction. You can call it DKP, SpaceCoins or Honorable Brony Patch, if it's a award that can be redeemed later on for something and it's an award claimed for doing something over and over again, that's called a job and jobs that are providing you enough to sustain you but not enough to make you wanna leave, is wage-slavery. And there are many sociopaths (as you might have noticed on this topic) that are actively seeking slavery in the game and they will use the Skinner method to achieve it. 

 

 

And you seem to be a very... uhm, straight shooting arrow kind of guy, no cunning involved, so here's a tip for free.

 

A lion's great strength is its mass and teeth.

 

A cheetah's is its speed.

 

A human's is its canning nature.

 

When you use force to make people your slaves, you end up with a rebellion. When you convince people to give up their free will, then you get McDonalds popping-up everywhere,

 

 

And you are the kind of people the machines will one day conquer, because you seem to think that doing the same quest in WoW , day in day out, to get those same gold rewards is tots fine, but a player? Giving you a quest?

 

THAT'S ABSURD. That's like some commie scheme!

 

That's like some french guy came up with the idea of a sandbox game, with emergent gameplay, a fleshed out organisation and economic system and wanted to make a voxel game based around it with thousands of players on the same server! Pffft, I mean, you wouldn't go and post your opinions on that forum right? You don't want emergent gameplay, you want NPCs with a blue question mark over their heads, giving you quests, rather than actual players, handing you jobs for a paycheck. 

 

 

Like it or not, there's going to be wage-slavery, because friends are going to play together and take missions together. Because the greatest fantasy in sci-fi games, is the mercenary kind of fantasy. Call it a smuggler, a hired gun, or a miner, people are going to set up a scheme to leash people to their organisation. And you also seem to underestimate the power of a habbit. Expect big organisations to be run by sociopaths. They always do.

 

Let's keep any further debate in PM. Nobody got to put up with our dispute over what qualifies as slavery.

Never heard of loot councils.

I would not have continued to play with a group that had loot councils.

And, I'm a hippie/commie/socialist who almost always rolls greed because I am not a capitalist. Nor am I competitive. I am a co-operative player.

 

Voxel game play has everything to do with this topic because voxels provide us with the means to gather resources and create own gear and food.

We can survive just fine in safe zones if we wish to be free from slavery. It will not be possible to enslave players in Dual Universe.

 

I could go through line-by-line and destroy your arguments one-by-one, but, it's not worth the effort.

What you describe isn't slavery.

Taking on a quest is a choice - slaves don't have the freedom to refuse a task they they're given.

If people wish to form relationships in Dual Universe where they work for other people to gain rewards, they will have the freedom to do so. But that isn't slavery.

 

And... I'm done.

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Never heard of loot councils.

I would not have continued to play with a group that had loot councils.

 

I could go through line-by-line and destroy your arguments one-by-one, but, it's not worth the effort.

What you describe isn't slavery.

If people wish to form relationships in Dual Universe where they work for other people to gain rewards, they will have the freedom to do so. But that isn't slavery.

And... I'm done.

First, you get the reason I quit WoW. I could not accept that as the Main Tank I got to get gear, but all those greedy people on the loot council were getting loot for themselves instead of helping the rest of the raid. Cause I'm a socialist that kind of hates oligarchy. Which is our fundamental view of things. By the way, you can't be a socialist communist, that's an oxymoron rivalling that of "moderate fundamentalist".

 

Please, do go by the line I called you a straight arrow kind of guy. I would like you to admit how you are not. I would also like you to destroy my arguement by calling out on how humans are not the dominant species of mammals on the planet due to our cunning nature. I mean, it's not like military coups overthrow goverments, like some particular communist leader in Russia, circa 1917, who was tots a straight arrow that never used espionage or assassins or anything... or Cuba.

 

Peace. As I said, keep the debate on PMs. I don't believe anyone here wants to see our dispute of how the world works.

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Unless, of course, someone is offering to be MY personal slave?  Then that's TOTALLY different 

Where I can apply? ;)

 

But seriously, I think that statement will sum up topic nicely - no slave mechanic, just leave it to willing people interaction :)

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