nietoperek Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 @ Dragoon - this is game forum, not some political hydepark or somethig. Keep you political views for yourself. And use more civilized language. I already send report to mods, but please be gentle and edit/remove your post before they do it. Anaximander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 @ Dragoon - this is game forum, not some political hydepark or somethig. Keep you political views for yourself. And use more civilized language. I already send report to mods, but please be gentle and edit/remove your post before they do it. Sorry superman,feel happy for saving a life? what a joke Kongou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongou Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 You shouldn't be offended by a simple statement against a political viewpoint. Undoubtedly in a game where politics will play a huge part in the emergent gameplay factor. I think its perfectly natural to make comments about any political ideology. Be that national socialist fascism autocracy centrist democratic socialist communist anarchist Every type of government has had slavery of some form or another there is no magical escape, not even technocracy. If somebody wants to say socialism sucks, then that is their statement to make. If NQ determine it to be inappropriate for the forums why dont we let them decide. You may have been able to say something in defense of socialism to change someones mind about it, maybe not the people here, but possibly a passerby. Since I'm here, and its been brought up, you guys are right. I may have been overestimating peoples desire for emergent gameplay involving other people. I think if we all just sit in arkified areas singing kumbaya and make robots mine for us, build for us, maybe even keep us fed, the world will be all right. We can all just sit back and do nothing while the game plays itself. There probably wont even be war except for the random burst of conflict brought on by micro aggression, like accidentally calling a transgender person by the wrong gender. What need will we have to force smaller alliances to cooperate with each other, or a bigger faction. Eventually they'll be able to drift away to their own area of space, maybe not at first, but eventually. Is that what we want, a magical world where escape is a click away. One click, re-spawn at a resurrection node, no big deal if you lose a gun or some mass produced item that only costs 5 credits, hell maybe your faction just hands out free gear because its so abundant. No good reason to venture outside of the arkified areas, and heck the penalties and risk will be really low anyway. Will anyone even be out there hunting for you for any reason other than to troll or kill you for no reason. Capturing people is just one tool, that could be implemented to bring people to conflict, and it doesnt have to be exclusive to that. The vitoc suggestion is also a buff and a debuff, it adds character to the game where otherwise well all just eat stale bread, charge batteries, and punch dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella_Astrum Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I doubt anyone will be sitting around singing Kumbaya, this definitely won't be the right game for that. There might be some who try. There will be some people who want to build that utopian haven, and others who will want to build a military fortress, and all kinds in between. I think there is a small difference between being able to capture people, and then using them as slaves. To what extent do we take away the liberty of another player in order to use them for slavery. Kidnapping, using people as bartering tools, I can get behind that, but slavery seems more complex. How would a player be forced to mine, or gather other resources under slavery? I'm assuming in this instance that players were captured unwillingly via pvp. Roleplaying slavery would be something different. If there are people or guilds that would like to roleplay being slaves, then that's up to them. Personally, I'd rather design and use robots, than the hassle of keeping smelly humans nietoperek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nietoperek Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Look on the problem from other side: slavery means total domination one party (lets call them "M" like masters) over another ("S" - slaves). If it is not "total" - than it is not slavery, you are free to go. However other form of power over someone can be easy obtained by economic, military or political methods. If it is "total" - hardcoded in game mechanic with no - it will sucks. Because if you by found yourself in "S" group, you game options will be extremely limited. Who want play (and pay!) for game, when you can only mine and mine and mine minerals by hand on some forsaken planet, only to fulfill you master needs? With no chance to break chains (game mechanic!) ? You? Please, answer honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongou Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Some hard code, some not. If shackles existed, perhaps a temporary debuff on whomever was forced to wear them. It could give specific power to whoever put the shackles on you. Possibly conditions, but not limited to: -Preventing the person wearing shackles from using /suicide for 10 minutes. -Keeping their body logged into the game, even if the player logs out. -Allowing the owner to move / drag the captive. -allow the owner to make a captive mine, or transport items between two points, or make a captive use emotes or /dance. -allow the owner to loot the captive, or change the captives non-lootable cosmetic clothing or even unequip it so they are left in their undies. I agree with you, a hardcore bondage game isnt good for anyone. But exploring some ideas of the in between wont hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nietoperek Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) It is cool and all, but there is one question that you not answer: what if "slave" want to be free? With tight security and no tools plus remote location your chances to escape are close to absolute zero... It is a game, after all, not torture or work. Non-consensual actions without any counter will lead to one thing: lot of unsubs. And how to avoid that? Edited July 17, 2016 by nietoperek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I'm a little teapot Short and stout Here is my handle Here is my spout It's another thing to be a helot in Sparta and another peioikos. The former gets stabbed to death by a Spartan boy at the age of 15 to complete his training as a killer, the latter is a wage-slave. When the helot ran out, the perioikoi were targeted. Guess how Sparta fell. And Athens was not behind. For all the democratic propaganda and Plato quoting frenzies, people seem to forget that Athens was pretty okay with slaves, it was in fact, an okay subject for the, all so wise people of Athens, to the point the Romans got jeally and upped the ante on the subject of brutalising slaves. And as for Plato and his opinion on democracy, read his greatest work The Republic, the TL; DR of The Republic, is "Democracy is the second worst thing after Tyrrany." You'll find out why the term Republican is used by right-wingers and Democrat by left-wingers. Because people DO not work together. People collide, people grind on one another, it's nature. Conservatist human nature struggling with an ever changing status quo. The old guard taking on the future. And oh boy, I can see it already, the "small time good guy organisation, peace love and hippe stuff" being the next day's equivalent of Hulk on his period, going ape and start fighting because they built so many "pweet things" that they exhausted their resources. You know, like any other war ever taking place. The thing is, the people do not care of what political system is their overlord. They only care for their own upper-end of the thighs. If you don't oppress them, they don't give a damn if it's Hillary, Donald, Jesus or xXx_MCYoloswag_xXx. What people care, is if they get more things for free. Like the democratic Athenians, who were, by historical fact, communists. Except they waged shadow wars via spies, so they could weaken enemy nations and overtake them easily, so they could get their resources, like silver and gold, and share it among the voting populace, which was the entire city-state of Athens (of voting age of course). You want democracy like the Athenians, it's cool, it's romantic, but don't throw around ideals like you are Eminem dissing. People will fight for any given reason. Either one side going too far with PKing, either over resources, either over an embargo, but they wlll fight. You can't stop that. It's human nature. I also like the fact you find slavery an "okay feature for the game", but you consider calling someone accidentaly a woman while in transition a "cause for conflict." Because, you know, people give a flying flamingo about anyone's thin-skin, enough to go to war over a misunderstanding like that. We all remember after all how Stalin went to war with Hitler, because Hilter made a pun on Jo about him "Stallin' to enter the war." And we know that Stalin was a no-nonsense guy, from the fact he let his own son die in captivity because his son was not worth the prisoner exchange as of value of rank. TL;DR : Please don't add slavery mechanics. The game has one. It's the same one that forces you to go to work every day. It's called wage-slavery. If you can't be smart and make people willingly work for you, you will just have hostile elements bidding their time. Or even worse, QUITTING THE GAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella_Astrum Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Both Nietoperek and Captain summarised what I was attempting to outline. If slavery is hard coded there are gameplay complexities to consider, such as enjoyability: how fun will that be for the slaves? Restrictions: for how long can someone be a slave? What can they or can they not do as a slave? Can they be forced to do certain things, and if they don't comply what are the penalties? Cost: What will it cost the slave master in terms of resources? What kind of technology would a slave master need in order to keep slaves? Freedom and capture: how would you capture people to be slaves and how do they free themselves? I think slavery is better for roleplayers rather than a hard coded feature. As I said earlier I'd like to see the ability to kidnap other players for ransom. Perhaps even keep them as prisoners of war and their organization will either have to barter for their return or fight to retrieve them. Could make for interesting sceneries. Scruggs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 How do i close a Topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongou Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 heres what I said: There probably wont even be war except for the random burst of conflict brought on by micro aggression, like accidentally calling a transgender person by the wrong gender. That does not mean, that I am offended by by that. Please stop glancing at things I say, twisting them, then proclaiming I am either for, or against it. I'm just providing examples of human behavior. I'll tell you what I believe, science will evolve to a point where people can swap gender, change appearance, and look however they want. If racism continues on the path it historically has, as a weirdo that wants to be a fox-girl, I'll be the one trying not to get locked up or abused for being what you are. ~Heres some charged sarcasm~ That means I want you guys to think about the relation of PVP mechanics and PVE ones, and that this isnt necessarily my opinion, but just something to stir thoughts. Being captured isnt fun. Being killed isnt fun. Lets make sure we hardcode safe areas just for builders and gatherers. Now to have actual discussion, That sounds interesting Lady, do you have any thoughts on the mechanics for capturing prisoners of war? Do you think player equipment will be valuable enough that people wont just /suicide and might try to do something to gain freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Oh and btw people wont be in peace because in a world were i could conquer land,kill,exploit resources,etc without affecting me in real life there wont be peace.You know why i haven't kill anybody in real life?1.It would affect my mental state 2.Theres laws and people to stop me3.I dont need to do it4.I have religious and other beleifs that stop me5.Im in a stable place6.Theres a chance i might die trying to kill someone else.But in a game this things that i just told you wont necesarely apply to the virtual world.So yes there wont be peace in this game we the ones that are going to be the politicians in this are the ones that need to create that peace and that stability.So yea this is my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Neopolitan are you a girl in real life?just asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Well im part of the terran union and my character will be affected by the leader of the group and his decisions so if my nation is at peace im atp eace if my nation is at war im at war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nietoperek Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 But in eve it just works. Without slavery ;D 1/3 of game map is safe zone, another 1/3 is quite safe (restrictions on some pvp gear). No slavery. And guess what? Confict all around, with battles up to 1000 playets and hundreds corporations trying to screw each other in every possible way.... Conflict was, is and will be imminen without hardcoding. What I can say more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella_Astrum Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 How do i close a Topic? Dragoon, this seems like a pretty friendly exchange of ideas on the topic you raised. I may not agree that it would be an entirely viable game feature but it raises some ideas. Neopolitan I'll share my thoughts soon on possible mechanics. It's late here and my brain is functioning at low capacity right now , but it's certainly something I'd like to see added as a part of pvp. Kongou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 heres what I said: There probably wont even be war except for the random burst of conflict brought on by micro aggression, like accidentally calling a transgender person by the wrong gender. That does not mean, that I am offended by by that. Please stop glancing at things I say, twisting them, then proclaiming I am either for, or against it. I'm just providing examples of human behavior. I'll tell you what I believe, science will evolve to a point where people can swap gender, change appearance, and look however they want. If racism continues on the path it historically has, as a weirdo that wants to be a fox-girl, I'll be the one trying not to get locked up or abused for being what you are. ~Heres some charged sarcasm~ That means I want you guys to think about the relation of PVP mechanics and PVE ones, and that this isnt necessarily my opinion, but just something to stir thoughts. Being captured isnt fun. Being killed isnt fun. Lets make sure we hardcode safe areas just for builders and gatherers. Now to have actual discussion, That sounds interesting Lady, do you have any thoughts on the mechanics for capturing prisoners of war? Do you think player equipment will be valuable enough that people wont just /suicide and might try to do something to gain freedom? Ok so not maybe slavery but prisoners of war,We need to our selfs put restrictions to things like suicide,because then simply this Pker will come back again and again etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Dragoon, this seems like a pretty friendly exchange of ideas on the topic you raised. I may not agree that it would be an entirely viable game feature but it raises some ideas. Neopolitan I'll share my thoughts soon on possible mechanics. It's late here and my brain is functioning at low capacity right now , but it's certainly something I'd like to see added as a part of pvp. Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Neopolitan and if the time comes were degenerates try to swap genders there will be people to exterminate them for being degenerates and not accepting who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nietoperek Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 You go too far with such words, @Dragon. I hope that your post soon be removed. Please, focus on game related things, and keep your real-life opinons for yourself. ShadowLordAlpha and Kongou 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 You go too far with such words, @Dragon. I hope that your post soon be removed. Please, focus on game related things, and keep your real-life opinons for yourself. YEs i will exterminate them in the game so yea related to the game m8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 and holy shit dude gtfo if you cant handle my words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 ok now really lets forget about this topic and you weird repressed gay feeling for real life and ill make anothe topic for game politics OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo381 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 ok now really lets forget about this topic and you weird repressed gay feeling for real life and ill make anothe topic for game politics OK You're the only one getting off topic mate. Keep the BS in the PMs, we're here to discuss game mechanics. Personally, I'm against slavery (that's just my heritage speaking) but I think being able to take prisoners should be an option. Think about it: you find a spy and you wanna take him/her to jail. Well, slap some handcuffs on the scrub and tow em away. Perhaps there could a limit on how long you can hold someone, so that the game doesn't become a stagnant "When will they let me out" scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofPR Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 You're the only one getting off topic mate. Keep the BS in the PMs, we're here to discuss game mechanics. Personally, I'm against slavery (that's just my heritage speaking) but I think being able to take prisoners should be an option. Think about it: you find a spy and you wanna take him/her to jail. Well, slap some handcuffs on the scrub and tow em away. Perhaps there could a limit on how long you can hold someone, so that the game doesn't become a stagnant "When will they let me out" scenario. True maybe execute them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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