Jump to content

Revolutionary Idea for a More Balanced PVP


Hirnsausen
 Share

Recommended Posts

In games, I also like to PVP. But cannot thanks to those weirdos who control areas and keep them and those resources just for themselves in the safezone. those acts are what keepp societies ingame and in real life back. We humans are divided in normal people and in "yesterday" people that are still driven and inspired by building and all such, less developed like normal people. hey, too, are part of us humans, so we accept them among us, but they bring just suffering and pain. There is not much more I need to say about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/28/2021 at 9:00 PM, Hirnsausen said:

DarkHorion, thanks for the long but interesting-to-read text.

Yes, I follow international news closely, among them US news. I am well aware of the huge amount of "PVP" in the US society. I even run a Facebook group that (sarcastically) thanks the NRA for providing all these eciting headlines about mass killings ("PVP"). I think, we all(with exception of NRA and their lovers) agree, that there is way too much "PVP" in the US.

 

Looking to Japan with its strict and almost 100% restriction on guns, it is a big news headline there if one single shooting crime has happened in a year. You simply don't have mass shootings if there are no guns avalable. A better society. Other wrong-doings still, of course. But not all these mass-killings, and not all these many many many gun crimes where low amounts of people are murdered. In  Japan, they have crime where knives are used, but not many, either.  here is no NRA in that country that lobbies, pays and controls politicians.


The problem in our human society all over the world is, that there are too many people who love criome and violence and destruction and corruption. Those are the folks that are holding us back, mankind at a whole. I see those freaks as a kind of prehistoric pre-form of human, not ready yet to be part of a violence-free society. As ,long as those are mixed witth normal humans, any resulting society will have violence and desperation, sadness and hate. Those societies cannot develop as fast as they could do otherwise, and often don't develop into the right direction. China, Russia are great examples for that.

As people love and enjoy violence in real life, so of course their minds enjoy and love violence and misreatment of normal people in games, too. I have serious heart problems, stress can easily kill me, so I even have a real reason not to ever be part of some war or PVP  or crime - it is stress and has the potential to kill me. But also my ideology is strictly against violence, I just don't believe in it, and don't give any rights to it to existt. Violence simply has no, absolutely no, legitimation to exist. It is holding back all of us. I  am a natural explorer, I like to discover new places, meeting people and exchanging knowledge with them (not killing them). My entire life I traveled to other places, lived in many different countries, because I enjoy life. Many people cannot do what I did, as they don't have these possibilities, thanks to societies that are sick and cannot perform well.

In games, I also like to explore. But cannot thanks to those weirdos who control areas and keep them and those resources just for themselves. those acts are what keepp societies ingame and in real life back. We humans are divided in normal people and in "yesterday" people that are still driven and inspired by violence and all such, less developed like normal people. hey, too, are part of us humans, so we accept them among us, but they bring just suffering and pain. There is not much more I need to say about that.

------------

My idea about the self-destruction device ingame is a nice way to bring more balance into the Unsafe Zone. Now, those violent PVP folks have to think twice to attack unarmed ships. hey still can have all the fun they need by attacking armed ships, even a nicer challenge for them. But we unarmed, violence-free people need a way to keep attackers at bay, witthout having to become PVP lovers (meaning, playing by the rules those PVP lovers like to put on us). 

I completely respect your pacifism and agree with many of your views.
 

However many if not the majority of people enjoy combat in the gaming industry. Not because they enjoy griefing other people but because there is a certain disconnect from seeing it as violence but rather a set of challenges, strategic thinking and battle of skills and will’s.

 

When people have expensive ships or even reputations at risk a certain adrenaline rush can kick in while playing combat making some of the most exciting moments in the game. To limit this would be like putting a 5mph speed limit on a roller coaster. 
 

Dual Universe simply needs healthy and most of all competitive / fun combat systems if the game can even hope to be successful enough to keep the lights on and the servers open.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Physics, it is true what you write: PVP is supposed to be exciting and all that.

It is because of that, that we know helpless ships, ships without any weapons, would be boring for you.

That is, why we came up with the idea, to further enhance the adrenaline of PVP: that unarmed ships - at the brink of total loss - can self-detonate and create a huge area of destruction, destroying loot, ship, butt also many of tthe ships around. his naturally makes PVP more balanced, and adds to the excitement and adrenaline push. No PVP hero with repution wants lame, unarmed ships only. So, instead of weapons, those slow ships would use just another way to add to the challenge. I do not see anytthign wrong with that. There is no monopoly for destruction just on one side.



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Hirnsausen changed the title to Revolutionary Idea for a More Balanced PVP

see, that's the problem. You don't see anything other than your opinion.

 

now you called this "idea" : "Revolutionary Idea for a More Balanced PVP" but you CLEARLY didn't think this through.

 

11 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

that unarmed ships - at the brink of total loss - can self-detonate and create a huge area of destruction, destroying loot, ship, butt also many of tthe ships around

suicide bombers ftw - so ppl will just use this to kill entire fleets of ships with suicide squads in large ships

 

11 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

his naturally makes PVP more balanced, and adds to the excitement and adrenaline push

no it doesn't, it will just be abused to a) kill fleets (that's why it's a REALLY BAD idea) or b) deny pirates (yes this is a perfectly viable and needed playstyle in DU, even if you don't agree with it nor will ever get it) loot and booty which they deserve after their work. it's just an easy cop out for the victim

 

11 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

No PVP hero with repution wants lame, unarmed ships only.

yes, noone wants those but if someone is stupid enough to slowboat through PVP space in an unarmed ship, then it's on them.

This is also an oppertunity for GAMEPLAY you know? Don't like to arm your ships? call friends to defend you and fly with you, make yourself a fun evening talking. or hire mercs to do that for you. Such pirate attacks generate CONTENT, but I guess you don't get that

 

11 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

There is no monopoly for destruction just on one side.

sure. arm your ships then with actual balanced weapons and not easy-hurr-durr-IDC weapons which are unbalanced and unfair (NO i don't mean unfair for the attacker because he then dies....I mean because THEY can use that mechanic too then....and will abuse it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lethys: it is the PVP lovers who, don't see anythign else than their opinion.

My suggestion still allows for PVP, but it adds balance to a way, that players who do not wish to be subject to unprovoked aggression don't need to endure this.

With other words: PVP for those WHO WANT IT. No more mental raping of unwilling players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

Lethys: it is the PVP lovers who, don't see anythign else than their opinion.

 

Quote

Not everyone who is not you is automatically "the other side". That is black-and-white thinking. Start think colorful, as the real life is full of amazing colors of every shade! 

 

What exactly is your problem with the safe zone? I don't get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

Lethys: it is the PVP lovers who, don't see anythign else than their opinion.

My suggestion still allows for PVP, but it adds balance to a way, that players who do not wish to be subject to unprovoked aggression don't need to endure this.

With other words: PVP for those WHO WANT IT. No more mental raping of unwilling players.

No, pvpers see other opinions. That's what the safezone is there for. If you don't want PvP, Guess what, you don't have to!

 

Your suggestion means an easy and  unbalanced way to kill even more ships without ANY means of defending yourself against it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It reminds me so much for a man who rapes a woman. he woman of course does not want to get raped and says "Stop it, stop it". The rapis responds to the helpless cries of his victim:"Why didn't you stay home then? You are out of your aparment, so do what I do and make love with me".

And what is the PVP weirdos are saying? You are outside your Safe Zone, so do PVP with me even if you don't want but I will force it upon you"...

So, being able to attack armed ships only makes the difference. You PVP lovers can still get all the PVP you want, but now all your your possible victims can fight back, with the same weapons you are using. Are you really so afraid of that, strong man?
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nice to see that you don't argue against my counterpoints - I'm glad you finally accept them!

 

This is a game. stop weired RL comparisons. This isn't RL, it's a game where RISK vs. REWARD is a thing. Stop trying to get ALL THE REWARDS for NO RISKS

 

 

What really amazes me is that you didn't come up with the most obvious, BALANCED proposal to somewhat mitigate this "problem" you see here. There would be a good solution to all of this, but since you ONLY see your side of the story - you actually can't imagine anything else. Because obviously, you're right. And everyone else is just mean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lethys, no, I just reply to one at a time.

Violatting someone is actually the same, ingame or real life. mViolating is, doing something hat person does not want. Causing increased amounts of stress and frustration and anger, in short - decreasing the life expectation of another person.

If you had read my initial postings, you would have been aware - maybe - that I proposed challenges and risks of different types for the Unsafe Zone. PVP being just one of them. o keep balance, PVP to be focusing on where the nice challenge lays with PVP: armned ships. Your ships are armed, so what's wrong if a vicim's ship is armed, too? Arming a ship indicates the will to participate in PVP - exactly what you want.

But again: I want o see many more challenges of different types inside the Unsafe Zone. Drifting radioactive ship wrecks, desructive high-speed micro asteroids, and many things I canot even think about. I invite you and all others, to come up with some more ideas. Please understand, I am not forbidding PVP, but need to limit it to those who want, to make the way free for more risks inside the Unsafe one. If we keep PVP as it is now, any new risks would just increase the chance to die inside the Unsafe Zone as all challenges would just add to each other, against the player. That would mean, to introduce imbalance - it would become too hard to survive there.

I do not have the intention to make the Unsafe Zone to a low-risk area. Please do not misunderstand me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you don't actually reply. You just keep rambling on about how "my idea is great!" and "you are all wrong, I know better because I can't POSSIBLY be wrong!"

 

Case in point - earlier I posted this:

 

On 10/1/2021 at 10:26 AM, Lethys said:

see, that's the problem. You don't see anything other than your opinion.

 

now you called this "idea" : "Revolutionary Idea for a More Balanced PVP" but you CLEARLY didn't think this through.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:41 PM, Hirnsausen said:

that unarmed ships - at the brink of total loss - can self-detonate and create a huge area of destruction, destroying loot, ship, butt also many of tthe ships around

suicide bombers ftw - so ppl will just use this to kill entire fleets of ships with suicide squads in large ships

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:41 PM, Hirnsausen said:

his naturally makes PVP more balanced, and adds to the excitement and adrenaline push

no it doesn't, it will just be abused to a) kill fleets (that's why it's a REALLY BAD idea) or b) deny pirates (yes this is a perfectly viable and needed playstyle in DU, even if you don't agree with it nor will ever get it) loot and booty which they deserve after their work. it's just an easy cop out for the victim

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:41 PM, Hirnsausen said:

No PVP hero with repution wants lame, unarmed ships only.

yes, noone wants those but if someone is stupid enough to slowboat through PVP space in an unarmed ship, then it's on them.

This is also an oppertunity for GAMEPLAY you know? Don't like to arm your ships? call friends to defend you and fly with you, make yourself a fun evening talking. or hire mercs to do that for you. Such pirate attacks generate CONTENT, but I guess you don't get that

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:41 PM, Hirnsausen said:

There is no monopoly for destruction just on one side.

sure. arm your ships then with actual balanced weapons and not easy-hurr-durr-IDC weapons which are unbalanced and unfair (NO i don't mean unfair for the attacker because he then dies....I mean because THEY can use that mechanic too then....and will abuse it)

 

Your answer was this:

On 10/2/2021 at 9:04 PM, Hirnsausen said:

Lethys: it is the PVP lovers who, don't see anythign else than their opinion.

My suggestion still allows for PVP, but it adds balance to a way, that players who do not wish to be subject to unprovoked aggression don't need to endure this.

With other words: PVP for those WHO WANT IT. No more mental raping of unwilling players.

 

You didn't adress ANY points I made. You just keep going on and on and on and on about how "unfair" this is and about "raping" (whatever THAT has to do here I don't know....)

 

7 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

If you had read my initial postings, you would have been aware - maybe - that I proposed challenges and risks of different types for the Unsafe Zone. PVP being just one of them. o keep balance, PVP to be focusing on where the nice challenge lays with PVP: armned ships. Your ships are armed, so what's wrong if a vicim's ship is armed, too? Arming a ship indicates the will to participate in PVP - exactly what you want.

Nothing is wrong there - you CAN arm your ship already! Right NOW, ppl can arm their ships.

 

But this is not what you want right? What you want is a free pass for EVERY UNARMED ship in the pvp zone. You want to have ALL the benefits of mining T4-5 and you want ALL the stuff which happens in PVP space too, without ANY risk of interacting with other ppl whatsoever.

 

7 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

But again: I want o see many more challenges of different types inside the Unsafe Zone. Drifting radioactive ship wrecks, desructive high-speed micro asteroids, and many things I canot even think about. I invite you and all others, to come up with some more ideas. Please understand, I am not forbidding PVP, but need to limit it to those who want, to make the way free for more risks inside the Unsafe one. If we keep PVP as it is now, any new risks would just increase the chance to die inside the Unsafe Zone as all challenges would just add to each other, against the player. That would mean, to introduce imbalance - it would become too hard to survive there.

Sure those can all be there and hit EVERY ship (even unarmed ones) there - why not. Doesn't change the fact that in the PVP zone there is the possibility of being attacked by pirates. Deal with it. Use this as some means for EMERGENT GAMEPLAY (as I already suggested).

 

PVP in it's current shape is pretty bad - mechanics suck, it's boring and pretty unfun. Your Idea would make this WORSE because of all the points I made earlier (which again, you didn't even acknowledge nor adressed in any way shape or form)

 

 

There would be a solution to all of this - if you would just think about it for a bit. And if you would just accept, that there MAY BE a risk involved when flying in a PVP zone.

But I will let YOU think about such a solution, you desperately need the excercise in critical thinking and thinking about balanced ways of dealing with such player types as you are

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest as much as i would like this idea to be made into the game, because i have similar mindset as you in regards to pirates, i don't think it's good for the game and in overall.
Instead of that, NQ should simply give us miners and pacifists a way to counter ambush or pirates.
At this moment pirates have all the tools and unarmed ship have absolutely 0 chance to escape, 0 chance to counter, and 0 chance to do anything.

You can only do some steps to minimize being found but it's just a matter of luck, and it shouldn't be a thing.
They should give us tools to escape.
For example this combat disabling warp is the worst and most stupid mechanic ever. 
You get shot and you can not warp? I really wish to know who though it's a good idea.
They should introduce the special pvp element that disables your ability to warp and give miners another tool to counter it.
NQ is very bad at balancing the game because they don't play like normal players do and they cannot make a rational decisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/20/2021 at 11:30 PM, Hirnsausen said:

So, you like your possessions being taken away, your parents being killed, your children being slaughtered, your wife being abducted and then killed, and all that

 

What does this statement have to do with a fantasy game and PvP?  You seem to be taking all this a bit too seriously.  Chill out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All his sttupid violence, yes, it really turns me off. I want to see hose violence freaks being confronted witth the bad emotions they are causing, just so they begin to understand. hey love violence soo much, so wishing (nott bringing) them such experiences in real life is maybe the last avenue to make them understanding, how much frustration and anger their behavior is causing. All he imes that PVP lobby, in so many games. Some of he best games I plaid before, were cut off from all the other aspects thsat where in development, just because of PVP lobby speaking out against them. So that game was nice for all PVP lovers, but it was a dead end at one point for all the normal players. And so, many normal players lef that game. hat game was Eve Online. PVP lobbying destroys so much...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Hirnsausen said:

All his sttupid violence, yes, it really turns me off. I want to see hose violence freaks being confronted witth the bad emotions they are causing, just so they begin to understand. hey love violence soo much, so wishing (nott bringing) them such experiences in real life is maybe the last avenue to make them understanding, how much frustration and anger their behavior is causing. All he imes that PVP lobby, in so many games. Some of he best games I plaid before, were cut off from all the other aspects thsat where in development, just because of PVP lobby speaking out against them. So that game was nice for all PVP lovers, but it was a dead end at one point for all the normal players. And so, many normal players lef that game. hat game was Eve Online. PVP lobbying destroys so much...

you DO realize, that this is a game right? You DO realize that being a pvper/liking PVP in a GAME is DIFFERENT from liking violence in RL right? You DO realize that wishing someone violence in RL because of something they do in a GAME is pretty rough shit, amoral and makes you a VERY shitty person, right?

 

you're really a disgusting, immoral, shitty and disturbing person when you really believe such things and I do not want such ppl in a game. Please consider your life if you can't differentiate between a game and RL. Time to see a psychiatrist and treat your delusion

 

also, your T key is broken.

 

EDIT:

still no counter-arguments to any of my points

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems you do not like certain things from oher people and start to react angrily. That was the purpose of my lesson, and hopefully you do undersand now the bad emotions aggression gives to your countless victims, too. Aggression is aggression, wherever it happens., even if you ake aggression into the game world You say you do no wish to encounter such people in the game. Your own answer would be: "then stay inside your zone and do not enter the zone I am in, oherwise get ready to be confronted again and again with it". Wha a big smile you gave me now, thanks for it. Well appreciated.

Mission accomplished.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow.... Just wow mate. Ppl like you should seek professional help and not play video games when you can't distinguish between RL and VL.

 

Everything I said went over your head and you either don't understand english that well or you're just really dense or stupid.

Considering your statement

Quote

(t)hey love violence soo much, so wishing (nott bringing) them such experiences in real life is maybe the last avenue to make them understanding, how much frustration and anger their behavior is causing

it's pretty telling of your delusion and mental issues you're having when you don't even recognize what my problem with that statement even is

 

Everything you said doesn't apply to the actual conversation here because the point clearly went over your head and you have no clue what was actually said

No use in talking to you either way because you have No intention of even discussing the points i made

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Hirnsausen,

 

Thank you for your feedback. However, it won’t be possible to go with your suggestion for the following reasons: 
 

  • What you suggest can be abused in many ways. Just an example among many others: imagine that non-armed ships are used to transport stolen assets (either from wrecks destroyed in PvP or anything stolen due to a betrayal from an infiltrated spy in an organization). We would remove the ability for justified retaliation, and that’s absolutely not our intention. Players should face the consequences of their actions, for the best and for the worst. It’s part of the Sandbox concept (even if we had to limit it in a reasonable way to give some room for both types of players, PvP and non-PvP).
     
  • PvP must keep some unique incentives. Harvesting the rarest materials is one of those incentives. The concept of “risk versus rewards” has been part of Dual Universe, from the very beginning. Please keep in mind that even the current in-game situation is way softer than the initial vision, where safe zones were only small areas on some planets. Today, there are whole planets as safe zones, giving all the necessary space for those who do not want to be involved in PvP. You don’t need the rarest materials for creativity, and even in the rare cases you need some, you can always rely on the markets for resources that would be normally available in PvP areas. Some more adventurous players ready to risk their ships in PvP will find an interesting trade in the situation.
     
  • You can’t speak of non-consensual PvP in Dual Universe. Non-consensual PvP is when there is no way for a player to avoid being caught in PvP in a game. In Dual Universe, you CAN avoid being caught in PvP by staying in the safe zones and have access to pretty much any gameplay available in-game (except PvP of course). If a player ventures outside of a safe zone, it’s his choice and it means he/she has implicitly accepted the risks tied to this choice.
     
  • As mentioned before, unsafe space has always been part of Dual Universe vision. So you can’t talk about lobbying when it is about something that was there from the very beginning. If there is some lobbying, it’s when some players put the pressure to change something that was already well established at the beginning.


While some ideas may be seen as good on paper, it will generate more problems than it will solve, not to mention that it would radically change Dual Universe’s original vision. The game is already more than reasonably friendly toward those who don’t want to participate in PvP and there is no plan to give access to the whole space in-game without any PvP risk. That was never the deal and will never be. 

 

We (as a team) do, however, acknowledge that the current situation in PvP is unbalanced and that some players may resort to some loopholes or gray areas to win a battle. The Novaquark team goal is to fix those loopholes and find the right balance in the long term. Balancing PvP is a delicate endeavor and can take some time. This is why we are still in Beta and that Beta may still last quite a while.

 

On another topic, please refrain to compare non-consensual PvP to awful real life things like rape and such. Try to picture yourself explaining to someone who has been raped that what he/she has experienced is the same thing as being frustrated by a situation in a video game. You will (hopefully) see how unreasonable the comparison is. If you’re not convinced, do try to discuss with some rape victims. It won’t be a surprise if none will agree with you.

 

Last but not the least: some elementary rules are in effect on the forum.
 
- Wishing harm to other players in real life for ANY reason is NOT ok. 
For that reason, @Hirnsausen you get a warning point.
- Direct insults and personal attacks toward a player is not okay either. 
For that reason, @Lethys you get a warning point as well.

 

We hope you will continue to participate on the forum in a more civilized manner in the future.
In the meantime, this topic will be closed to avoid further aggressive/provocative replies.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...