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Instant warp with 100% safety is bad for DU


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2 hours ago, Physics said:

I don’t think I can agree on any point you just made here.

That's harsh.

I would assume you could agree with :

2 hours ago, Physics said:

Basically this is why territory mechanics need to exist. 

Because I got EVE developers and players agreeing with me that attackers have an advantage regarding defenders. So they implemented attack timers, so PPL could schedule a defense.
NQ also agrees with this, trying to implement this for territory warfare.

My point is that there is no space defense mechanics scheduled for near term delivery, unlike territory ones.

 

2 hours ago, Physics said:

Pirates are always at risk from not just military forces, but other pirates

Unless they are all allied.. And guess what is happening right now?

 

2 hours ago, Physics said:

Hauler gets taken out by an XS fighter? That’s a newbie hauler or one that is beyond unfit for purpose. 

For real? You think a meta XS cube has any issues with taking down an S or even an M hauler designed for freight full of cargo?

Based on what?

Because we are talking about a near siting rock being attacked by meta radar exploits without being able to return fire.

 

2 hours ago, Physics said:

space is big, it’s actually fairly hard to find someone outside the pipe without prior tracking through alt or core

They are talking about removing PVP protection from the warp exit location, which is pretty static independently of the "pipe" you take. as long as you come anywhere from the Alioth's direction, you will end up in that place.

 

2 hours ago, Physics said:

I would expect space stations to have some immunity shield just like TW tiles that need to prepped for attack prior to raid making the warp beacon idea a very good one

I would also expect stations to have shields and timers. But do you have an ETA on that? Because they are talking about removing PVP protection now.

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Just now, joaocordeiro said:

Dont take this as a offense but, how naive... 

 

That defence requires a huge amount of resources. Because attackers only need to be online for 30minutes to attack but defenders need to be online 24/7. 

It is very inefficient to mount a permanent defence. 

 

At most, we will see this convoy time window, where a certain org will try to protect the warp exit for a limited ammount of time, to allow their org members to warp safely. 

But this is also inefficient because mining operations will take at least half a day. Players dont have that ammount of time to stay idle looking at the radar. 

 

But worse part is that even if some org mounts a permanent or temporary defense, it will only be for them and their allies. 

For the lone player or the small org this means the end of warp.

 

you must be new to the game because this happened at the beginning of the beta 

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I'm not the one making statements @joaocordeiro .. You seem to have information that says that "there is no space defense mechanics scheduled for near term delivery, unlike territory ones."

 

Feel free to provide the source you have for that statement

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Feel free to provide the source you have for that statement

How do i prove something that does not exist?

Should i deliver to you the entire internet?

I guess its up to you to prove its existance.

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16 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

How do i prove something that does not exist?

 

You are stating that "there is no space defense mechanics scheduled for near term delivery, unlike territory ones" as a fact which requires knowledge of that statement being correct. How do you know that? what information do you have to substantiate that statement?

 

 

Frankly, even with NQ being NQ, I could see them bring in an initial version of their TW mechanics in the PVP revamp and apply it to space stations to test their viability. Would not be unreasonable and certainly not outside of the realm of possibilities is they are actually forward thinking enough to be that bold. It would give players who are PVP focused a way to test the new mechanic while PVP is still restricted to space. It will give players who have ground bases an opportunity to test mechanics they will apply a couple of months later to defend their tiles once TW comes in and it gives NQ data and a way to tweak the mechanics.

 

Now obviously, it would require NQ actually thinking ahead more that the next patch which is hard to imagine at this point but it could happen.

 

My opinion is that if NQ does their homework for once it is far more likely they may introduce defensive mechanics on a base/station level (especially as they have said that the PVP revamp will also bring ECM and other defense mechanisms).

 

 

Could you be correct in your speculative assumption with nothing to back it up? sure.. but I still have this glimmer of hope that NQ may see the light and start acting like a game developer.

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26 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Could you be correct in your speculative assumption with nothing to back it up?

So if i say DU will not change its name to "this game sucks". How should i back this near certain affirmation? 

 

We know territory warfare is on the rails. This implies territory. 

Since NQ brags about it, i assume is in the near future. 

 

Do we have any information about space station protection? I dont have any. 

If NQ is not barging about this one, i assume ita not on the near future. 

 

Is this a far-fetched way of thinking? I don't think so. 

 

But i am ready do accept that i am wrong, to any source saying otherwise? 

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My sources say that NQ doesn't have any plans for the near future or the far future.

 

They only have plans with a medium future, which to them means 2-3 months. 

53 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Now obviously, it would require NQ actually thinking ahead more that the next patch which is hard to imagine at this point but it could happen.

 

My opinion is that if NQ does their homework for once it is far more likely they may introduce defensive mechanics on a base/station level (especially as they have said that the PVP revamp will also bring ECM and other defense mechanisms).

 

Could you be correct in your speculative assumption with nothing to back it up? sure.. but I still have this glimmer of hope that NQ may see the light and start acting like a game developer.

wtf blaze you're such an optimist today. everything okay? 

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We know eventually the safezones around the outer planets will go away. We also know we'll get interdiction eventually. Both of these things are good for the health of the game. 

 

And why they wouldn't give stations timers like territory i dont know. You could even make them scale based on core size. 

 

This view is related to an idea I have that limiting certain mechanics to large orgs or groups of players is actually good for the game and generates content. 

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On 3/1/2021 at 2:38 PM, Sinfil said:

you guys do know that when warping to a planet outside of safe zone you dont warp into atmo so you can still be shot down by pirates thats exactly what they do. follow warp points and wait for people to exit. what movie or game do you know that allows you to pvp or be shot down while in warp thats one of the points of warp. 

This.  There's going to be so much ganking when they release the next version of PvP.  It will cause players to travel together more imo.  Solo mining will be a thing of the past.

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2 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Is there even going to be a playerbase left by the time they get rid of all these bullshit safe zones? 

right...? 

 

people talk like all these changes are inevitable...IMO there's no inevitable future with DU at this point.

 

Any one of these updates could realistically be among their last. they have a massive burn rate (~70 employees + expensive rented servers) and very little revenue.

 

Mechanical/design changes are only one facet...and they have a lot to do to fix those...but based on the velocity of dev so far? there's no guarantee they will actually deploy such updates...and if they do, how bad will the lag be with more and larger battles? they can't just fix mechanics, they have to fix fundamental tech issues, too.

 

attracting more players or bringing them back only works if the tech is scalable, which they haven't proven is the case. 

 

"when they release that" or "when this gets changed" are nice thoughts, but from what i can see from 0.23 and 0.24, I'd be shocked if future pvp updates have real substance to them...if they even land in the next 3-5 months.  

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12 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

Mechanical/design changes are only one facet...and they have a lot to do to fix those...but based on the velocity of dev so far? 

I always have impression, that NQ also impossibly horrible with "doing more with less" thing.

 

In MC I done quite a lot of admining and, to extent, developing (in very humble scale) of custom economies/mods and all this stuff when it was really popular. We had some kind of (usualy very bad) programmers and "middleware" (mods of others guys to tinker) and being low on all other resources as unpaid amateurs. So we always tried like add maximum of value features for players with low "dev effort" things or carefully managed mini (but regular) events.

 

In DU I constantly and clearly see here and there such opportunities to implement little goodies to enchance player engagement (and retaintion) but they all ingored. Instead NQ can only move forward with sluggish/clumsy big updates, they usualy can't even use to full extent for player enjoyment.

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