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I see a lot complaining about the current state of affairs to PVP combat, and for the most part, this is all in a testing phase.  I would expect it.  But in a sense I do get it and understand it needs to change.  That being said, I have an honest question here.

Are you truly upset because it's difficult to get into dog fight style combat (I've seen the interface, it arguably doesn't exist yet, but I'm trying to polite)  with other like minded players.  Or is it that you're having trouble heading out and blowing up (for lack of a better term) carebear miners and industrialists.  Heavy loaded and light on armament.  No real risk of your own, but high reward.  the very complaint I read constantly about the state of things.  If the tidal surge here is focused on primarily this sort of gameplay, I'm sorry I don't support your movement.  It takes long training times and massive investment to mine, move and build the things that we ultimately sell just to be executed with.  on the other hand, I can take a fairly green character, buy a ship from the main shipyards and sit around waiting to blow miners up with .. zero skill, very low investment and lets face it almost no risk.  

If PVP people want the ability to get into areas where that's the goal, to shoot out in massive battles with other armed opponents, I'll gladly contribute my time in ship design to help with that end any day of the week.  I've already got a few ideas rolling around for one, I just don't see a market for it yet so it's a low priority.  That and figuring out if a few of the game mechanics would allow for it to function as intended would also need some play testing.  

As I'm asking for your opinion, I've given mine to be fair.  Not looking for some flame war, just wondering if people can actually be honest.  Personally, it just seems that people are only interested in easy kills.

 

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18 minutes ago, Merciless_Fisting said:

  Personally, it just seems that people are only interested in easy kills.

 

This isn't even remotely close to being true.  Have you seen the Talemai lockdown? we had many fights, yes a few haulers died, but in the end today one huge battle of over 30 ships, and possibly 70 people or so were all there to fight other well armed pvp ships.  

 

Wanna know what the people really want? FREEDOM.  We were sold on a game where the players make the rules, and "emergent gameplay"  Right now there is 0 to fight over as 100% of the content is locked behind safe zones where guns are disabled by the mechanics.  Like I cant literally even attempt to fire my a gun where 100% of the content lies.  

 

Here is another thing...this is an MMO.  If you are new/solo/ignorant to the landscape and politcs, you see lacobus and say to yourself "hey i would like to mine some gold", in what world do you think you are entitled to fly there in a fat slow hauler, to STEAL gold from a planet you do not live on?  You didnt take any attempt to find out who lives there, who patrols there, what the politcal climate is like there.  Sure you have the freedom to go there, but to expect to be 100% safe is just completely fucking asinine.  This is a video game and risk is what makes it fun, and the interactions and people forming communities/factions/politics/wars is where the "fun" is.   

 

Does that mean sometimes a hauler is going to die to well armed pvp ship? Yes.  Does it mean it can be avoided by "playing the mmo game".  Also yes.  Regardless if you are a pvper or not, people what the chance to actually influence how the game progresses, sometimes thru diplomacy, sometimes thru agressive negotiations.  But the point is, let the PLAYERS CHOOSE.

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12 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

..you see lacobus and say to yourself "hey i would like to mine some gold", in what world do you think you are entitled to fly there in a fat slow hauler, to STEAL gold from a planet you do not live on?  You didnt take any attempt to find out who lives there, who patrols there, what the politcal climate is like there.  Sure you have the freedom to go there, but to expect to be 100% safe is just completely fucking asinine...

 

I'm not really interested in PvP in it's current form in this game. However this quote is fkin awesome and as true as it gets.

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37 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Does that mean sometimes a hauler is going to die to well armed pvp ship? Yes.  Does it mean it can be avoided by "playing the mmo game".  Also yes.  Regardless if you are a pvper or not, people what the chance to actually influence how the game progresses, sometimes thru diplomacy, sometimes thru agressive negotiations.  But the point is, let the PLAYERS CHOOSE.

Im not a strict PVPer. When I first came into the game I had grandiose visions of what I could experience in DU, it involved part PVP but more pay for others to DO the PVP under my banner. The choice I never got nor expect to be able to make in DU.

 

So to OP. I came in the game originally expecting to be subject to PVP, but to also have an opportunity to build towards that without griefing that prevents me from ever being on equal footing with others. Possible or not, to that end is my support of PVP.

 

Besides, as an industrialist, I would need people to fight, so I could sell them replacements. Keep them busy fighting while making money doing it.

 

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Well, I'm a hauler and have little use for PVP although I have done some in DU and a lot in other games.

 

I observe that combat between reasonably balanced sides works OK for what it is... but what it is is picking targets from a list and watching the list as your guns auto fire. You aren't even watching them. I'm not sure why that's supposed to be fun.

 

What I hear would be PVPers complaining about is that we haulers/miners etc. can easily avoid combat by warping around it. These whiners are griefers of course and their interest is in disrupting other players play with no risk to themselves.

 

I don't have any problem with being attacked if I have reasonable defenses available to me, but I don't yet. (On the other hand, if you're attacking me, don't expect me to treat you as a human being or anything other than a waste of air. You would be better content if you were an NPC.)

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Problem with pvp? It’s not ready yet and that is upsetting the whole balance of the game. Higher tier ores will be locked behind contested territory. Until then the progress for everyone is a free for all without any need for social structures / player markets, no matter how many patches like 0.23 you put in.

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18 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Here is another thing...this is an MMO.  If you are new/solo/ignorant to the landscape and politcs, you see lacobus and say to yourself "hey i would like to mine some gold", in what world do you think you are entitled to fly there in a fat slow hauler, to STEAL gold from a planet you do not live on?

Uh, dude?  are you ok?  nobody owns anything.  it's a video game.  please leave the roleplay at the door.  however strange I might find this idea, I will at least try and counterpoint it.  When you say own, I can only guess that this means you are then improving the local economy, policing the area, providing support to new players that move there.  This sort of thing.  But I am going to hazard a guess I think is a lot closer to the truth, you're in a org that decided to setup shop there and you feel that entitles you to defacto "ownership"  
Oh god.. This such an EvE mentality I've just disgusted myself for engaging it.  whatever, you win. you can have the whole game all to yourself. I need to go vomit.

 

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1 minute ago, Merciless_Fisting said:

Uh, dude?  are you ok?  nobody owns anything.  it's a video game.  please leave the roleplay at the door.  however strange I might find this idea, I will at least try and counterpoint it.  When you say own, I can only guess that this means you are then improving the local economy, policing the area, providing support to new players that move there.  This sort of thing.  But I am going to hazard a guess I think is a lot closer to the truth, you're in a org that decided to setup shop there and you feel that entitles you to defacto "ownership"  
Oh god.. This such an EvE mentality I've just disgusted myself for engaging it.  whatever, you win. you can have the whole game all to yourself. I need to go vomit.

 

When Territory wars come out players will own the land and potentially whole moons and planets. When that happens what they describe is a possibility. When Mega Orgs steamroll everyone else and claim a planet you will be effectively stealing from them. They pretty much own them already since they can essentially blockade or chase off and pvp players from taking "their ore" right now. Sure they dont have a flashy title saying they own it but they essentially do.

 

It has nothing to do with improving anyone elses gameplay they dont have to care about improving anyone elses gameplay but their orgs players. If anything they are trying to kill the economic power of their rivals since they can produce the item cheaper than you can because they source the ore there. You have to undercut yourself and potentially lose money with each transaction to just break even and get your money back right now. Just imagine when they cut off whole tech trees and prevent anyone from mining there when TWs go live.

 

Seeing as JC and NQ idolize EvE you can bet it is what they want to do eventually.

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At the moment, the PvP aspect of the game, from my point of view, isn't even really in existence. Ideally, there would be "safe" areas for newer players to explore and build on, knowing that they can't be shot. There would also ideally be areas where you can get shot both in space, in the atmosphere, and on the ground. However, realistically with ground bases, unless the ground bases have the option of either being invulnerable at certain times of the day (when the owner(s) are probably offline and so not able to defend it), then they need to be able to deploy things like shields and surface to air weapons. Let's face it, if I fly to Thades and mine, I'm not stealing anything - nobody owns what I mine, unless somebody has claimed the hex and set access for anybody to mine, in which case that's their own issue.

 

PvP in its current form seems beyond dull, and very much like a terrible MMO where you just click on something, click on something else and then do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and repeat. DU gives the ability for skill and design to play a huge part in how ships and ground constructs are made, and I'm hoping that when the PvP update hits, we will start to see that same variety of design and skill play a huge part in how PvP actually works. For point and click PvP, there are other things like Eve online for space games, or WoW for characters - both essentially involve clicking on something and then just pressing the number keys in sequence.

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