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Moons of safe zone are out of rare ores...

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the problem:

@NQ Devteam all moons in safe zone im visiting are empty of rare ores... the surface of all plots are like this:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsLuUwP25mlpIFptzAC8d

what should we do? what is planned in short term to gather higer tier ores? and for new players that they pay you some sub?

it is an important issue that we need to solve in max of weeks not months.

 

smaller orgs actually can't compete with bigger ones for the mining competition in safe zone. in other words, big orgs are exploiting the safe zone resources (already having military power) and make smaller orgs or solo players can't do nothing else than basic stuff or sell basic ore they gather making the trouble worst.

in my opinion is not fair and need some kind of balance "quick".

keep the resources in balance will make the comunity safe and mild. if this balance is broke, well i think very well that you know the concecuences and don't need that me a nonamer gold backer to tells you about. didn't you?

or this is a social experiment and you want to learn about the patient and consecunces of the people when run out of resources and you split the comunity in 2: the bigger powerfull empire and the resistance... probably thats why is call "dual": the good and evil, the red vs blue, the light vs dark, the bigger alliance vs the rest of the server. that things ruin sandbox mmos comunity behavior (the best example is life is feudal mmo).

plz do something quick or the wars will explode in your discord, forums, social media and everywhere else than the ingame before the full pvp is turned on.

 

my ideas: (for newbies and pve sheeps)

     -short term: (easy for you to acomplish)

  1. asteroid rains over the moons that refill the resources from time to time (making dangerously deadly to build constructs there or simply negate the TS placing on moons) not need to be visual in short term. just keep the players informed when it happens. (this idea is from a zellcore memeber called: Vitari)
  2. diferent tiers of quests to gather resources, quanta and talent points from renewable resource moons or especific renewable ore veins near arch plots (im sure you are working on something similar) 

 

     -long term: (im quite sure you are working on it... didn't you?)

  1. asteroid belts (can be a good oportunity to test physics and/with volxel entities apart from the core construct system you have now)
  2. expand the open space with more systems

 

***the idea of this thread is to have an answer from "NQ Team" for a public information.***

if someone want to discuss or add more ideas for short and long term plz help and support this thread. salut!

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This is definitely an issue, my org of 10 people has been visiting safe zone moons and planets and coming up empty for T3+ ores on nearly all of the tiles we've scanned so far. When we do find deposits they are very small, maybe 3-5Kl nodes that nobody else wanted to spend a great deal of time or effort to dig up. We're moving to Warp Drive gameplay, which requires a lot of T3 resources and they have been incredibly hard to find. Without renewing resources, the economy loses lubrication and starts to grind to a halt, meanwhile prices even for basic things begins to skyrocket due to market supply not being able to meet demand anymore because travel becomes limited along with the resources. Without renewable sources of materials or a TRULY vast amount of static resources, it's inevitable that the economy and gameplay of the simulation is doomed to failure. And it could happen way faster than you may assume as the playerbase grows and the speed of mining the resources accelerates.

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That's why you have to go OUTSIDE the safezone. Plenty of t3 there

If you dont want to do that then buy whatever you need. If the markets were actually useable that is 

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10 hours ago, Lethys said:

That's why you have to go OUTSIDE the safezone. Plenty of t3 there

If you dont want to do that then buy whatever you need. If the markets were actually useable that is 

So I spent about 12 hours on Sinnen the other day scanning. Came up with zero Cryolite and just a pinch under 9kl of Acanthite from two veins I found. So its not exclusive to just the safe zones that are getting strip mined. I even stopped at the moon for a few hours, and found 1 vein of Acanthite.. and you know how many liters that had? 194. Someone went and mined all but 194l of it. Thats pretty messed up. I should not have to spend that many hours of play time scanning down territories to not find what I am looking for, and not progressing on my goals.

 

So there has to be some sort of short term solution for this, as well as a long term.

 

So lets talk short term to keep the ores flowing. During extended patch downtime they should regenerate non populated territories at a percentage of territories claimed. For example, if say a planet is 10% claimed, 10% of the unclaimed territories should be regenerated with new ore spawns (Not the same spawns that were there). This is an easy quick short term solution to the problem.

 

Long term. Granted there is going to be new systems at some point, but at the rate this is going, there is not going to be any t4+ for new players, and probably t3.  A longer term solution would be asteroid belts that respawn at random intervals. Meteor showers striking planets/moons to add random resources. New systems is an obvious add. But with new systems typically comes new types of resources so managing that new piece as well.

 

Some will argue that there should only be a finite amount of resources. This just leads to large orgs being power houses and kills solo/small group play because they cant match what large orgs do. And thats how it is in every game, but other games have replenishing resources and still offers all the same content to a solo that a large org can do. But finite resources doesn't do much for sustainability of the game. If everything gets mined out, there is no forward movement and no reason for a new player to start. They would be forced into a large org that has the resources, and some people just dont want to play that way.

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The trouble here is that the game does not yet have any means of refreshing resources in place.  The safe zone should have less than the outer planets but it should have some.  As someone who has done this, I can tell you it takes just a few hours to land a hauler, scan and then empty several tiles of everything but the T1s.  We are exhausting planets and moons faster than NQ planned. 

 

Ideally, we will have a long term solution that sees moons and planets reseeded from time to time by meteorites or some sort of geological activity.  

 

In the sort term, NQ should just reset unclaimed tiles or tiles that do not border claimed tiles. 

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Its clear at this point that a static deep core mining module should be introduced that gives a small but constant stream of ores based on individual tile properties but requires fuel to keep it running.

The territory scanner should give 2 sets of results. Shallow ore contents and Deep ore contents.

An example of a deep ore scan on Alioth would be 33% Hematite, 28% Coal, 17% Quartz, 15% Bauxite , 5% Malachite, 2% Limestone. These values would vary from tile to tile.

The amount of modules a user can place would be limited by skills. The time in which the ore is generated (mining cycle) would also be affected by skills.

The module can only be placed in a static core build area. The module would be required to be linked to a container. If the container is full, the next mining cycle would not generate ores.

 

I feel this would bring added value in placing and claiming territory. It would also give added value and achievement to those who manage reach and claim territory on planets with higher tier ores. It would create content when planet based PVP is introduced as orgs might choose to go to war over tiles which produce an unusually high amount of high value ores.

 

Feedback welcome.

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Another solution could be, that not all of the resources are mineable at once. So, when you scan a tile, you get an idea of how much ore there is. But it would spawn over time in smaller veins. That way people would not be able to scan and strip mine a tile, they would have to claim it and keep mining it for a longer time. Would also make territory control more important. Currently people just mine out the higher tier ores, and then abandon the territory.

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14 minutes ago, Tapio Kurki said:

Another solution could be, that not all of the resources are mineable at once. So, when you scan a tile, you get an idea of how much ore there is. But it would spawn over time in smaller veins. That way people would not be able to scan and strip mine a tile, they would have to claim it and keep mining it for a longer time. Would also make territory control more important. Currently people just mine out the higher tier ores, and then abandon the territory.

I think from a gameplay persepctive, respawning nodes etc. could prove tricky as they have the potential to interact and cause problems with existing constructs on the tile where as the passive solution i proposed would simply involve generating values for all existing tiles and the creation of a module that pulls ores based on those values. A small edit to the territory scanner so it pulls and displays those values would also be needed and obviously balance would need to be taken into consideration and tweaked over time as not to drastically effect the economy or disencourage people from mining the physical nodes generated in each tile. I think this system would give the little guy a reason to log in and empty his containers, refuel his mining rigs, transport ores between planets etc.

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I like the idea of meteor impacts (maybe just imaginary ones) that refill ore deposits on the moons, whether or not they make the surface dangerous to live on without shields.

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3 hours ago, Rockafella said:

Its clear at this point that a static deep core mining module should be introduced that gives a small but constant stream of ores based on individual tile properties but requires fuel to keep it running.

 

So this is a pretty good solution. Forcing you to have a steady stream of some sort of fuel to power small ore gains is not unreasonable.

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Yeah, I am discovering the same thing. This poses a major problem not just for smaller organizations and solo players, but also for new players. You can get along just fine for tier 1-2 as a new player, but making that jump to the next level is extremely difficult. There is a giant cube shaped boot on the neck of new players, trapping them in the safe zone where the higher tier resources have become scarce.

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7 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Ideally, we will have a long term solution that sees moons and planets reseeded from time to time by meteorites or some sort of geological activity.  

 

In the sort term, NQ should just reset unclaimed tiles or tiles that do not border claimed tiles. 

Yes please! I agree to both and short term should be pretty easy :)

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It's a contradiction of worldview that your nano-suit can sustain you indefinitely, with no input resources required, but ores are finite. I know this is not a survival game, that is clearly stated. What is odd though is that the only argument for finite ores is that they want some sort of realism. If this is a social experiment, Neo_O, then what this game is showing is exactly what your namesake was told by Agent Smith. Orgs are behaving like locusts. Descending, stripping, leaving, providing no added value at the point of extraction. That is not civilisations building. Unfortunately this is also realistic, but I won't cite examples, real world politics is not a subject we can discuss on forums. 

I think they need to go one of two ways, and I'm not sure which would be better. 

They need to say this is a game, not an attempt at realism, and respawn ores by whatever means, so that the game is accessible to new players. Without that this game dies quickly as any new players that don't want to be org drones leave almost as soon as they start. The game would still get a steady supply of org drones and people happy to just sit in a gunner seat and gank noobs.  

Alternatively, try to be more realistic. Even in the goldrush miners had to stake caims with a third party before they mined. Try opening up a deep mine next to my house in the real world, and you'll get so many lawsuits your feet won't hit the floor (but we have no legal system yet, and I doubt this game ever will have one). Build a house and then undermine it with vast caverns and you get subsidence in the real world, in DU we just get a static that is now floating. The main problem is not only that big orgs have the assets and players to strip mine, it's that the cost to benefit ratio is totally skewed. Even within the designed mechanics the only cost is fuel and time, plus maybe to slim risk that you get shot up. Yes, pvp is a risk, but no, currently it is not stopping savvy, small orgs from getting access to T3-5 ores. Add in known exploits, especially mass exploits and warp exploits, and the cost becomes even less than intended. That ratio should be addressed.  

   

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So lets look at the other side of the coin as well, lets play the part of NQ.

 

Resources dont respawn. Why?

There is no permanent loss of anything in the game except honeycomb in pvp. Thats it. Nothing is permanently destroyed in the game unless you willingly destroy something. So why should resources be replenished when there arent any losses? You could argue fuel and warp cells are a diminishing product, but not enough so that its going to cripple everything. So if nothing is getting taken away, why should there be more added?

 

Its a relatively good argument. Is there a fix? i would say something along the lines of, if X part is completely destroyed Y times, then its removed from the game. That;s a reasonable thing to add.

 

"but the game crashes so much I keep wrecking my ship!"

Join the club, but the GM team on Discord has been really helpful in repairing ships and making good on bad server performance.

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Re the exploits, we are in beta, now is the time to find them.

 

in the outer planets can you surface collect higher tier ores? If so, maybe once mined out that is the solution and the market price will have to adjust for that speed and quantity of supply.

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On 10/19/2020 at 2:38 PM, Vitari said:

There is no permanent loss of anything in the game except honeycomb in pvp. Thats it. Nothing is permanently destroyed in the game unless you willingly destroy something. So why should resources be replenished when there arent any losses? You could argue fuel and warp cells are a diminishing product, but not enough so that its going to cripple everything. So if nothing is getting taken away, why should there be more added?

Large organizations and players with immense amounts of time will grab the higher tier resources and sit on them. That is nothing new compared to other MMO games, but in games that respawn resources, other players will eventually have a change to obtain those said resources. In a game with finite resources, you create a situation where you create a serious divide between the haves and have nots. There are very few hexes claimed on most planets, and many of the low tier resources on those planets remain, but the higher tier resources are being sucked dry.

 

How are new players, or casual players for that matter, to be supported in this environment? Part of the game experience is the exploration and obtaining the resources. Is the game going to be reduced to new players join one of a handful of organizations that still have high tier resources stockpiled? Or will we be given new worlds when the ones we have are barely populated?

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Respawning asteroids in pvp zones that have T3+ ore is a really good solution. Even a small org of 10 can organize a day to explore/mine/defense the asteroid for a few hours to mine precious ores. 

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