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Hi, I just bought a supporter pack (120€), installed the game but then I get an error about missing AVX...

 

I conclude that my hardware isn't compatible (Intel i7-920 overclocked and a Xeon too). Wish they had written this in the store page...

 

Is there a very short term plan to remove AVX requirements ?

 

Even Ubisoft patched Odyssey to remove their initial mandatory AVX support ...


If not can I and how do I get a  refund ?

 

Thx

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2 hours ago, Kirth Gersen said:

Hi, I just bought a supporter pack (120€), installed the game but then I get an error about missing AVX...

 

I conclude that my hardware isn't compatible (Intel i7-920 overclocked and a Xeon too). Wish they had written this in the store page...

 

Is there a very short term plan to remove AVX requirements ?

 

Even Ubisoft patched Odyssey to remove their initial mandatory AVX support ...


If not can I and how do I get a  refund ?

 

Thx

Avx won't go away afaik, that's a standard for years now. 

 

If you don't want to upgrade your CPU you can get in touch with customer support at support.dualthegame.com

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AVX provides some considerable advantages. Frankly, expecting nearly a decade old hardware to still work and be compatible with modern day requirements is somewhat unreasonable.

 

That and the minimal hardware spec does in fact make mention of this.

 

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50 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

AVX provides some considerable advantages. Frankly, expecting nearly a decade old hardware to still work and be compatible with modern day requirements is somewhat unreasonable.

  

That and the minimal hardware spec does in fact make mention of this.

  

 

it is only the cpu that is old, the gpu is a 1080-ti. it's not that unreasonable since Moore's law kinda dead for cpu. That hardware can still hold these requirements.

 

They could just provide a simple program to test & validate the hardware since their game requires special instructions.

 

Where are the "minimal hardware spec" mentioning this ? (and were do you find them BEFORE buying a pledge ?) 

 

the only ones I found  in  the FAQ page in the home page:

 

Please note that the following requirements might evolve due to potential programming changes.

Minimal

  • AMD A8-7600 / Intel core i3-7100 / intel core i5-4440
  • 8GB RAM
  • Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 / Radeon RX 550
  • 2GB VRAM
  • Windows 10 (can run on Windows 7 but not guaranteed)
Recommended
  • AMD Ryzen 7 1700 / Intel Core i7-6700K
  • 16GB RAM
  • Nvidia Geforce GTX 970 / Radeon RX 580
  • 4GB VRAM
  • Windows 10

 

Usually minimal recommandations indicate a "performance" minimum not an "age" maximum (aka anything as powerful as an Intel core i3-7100 not anything as or more recent than an Intel core i3-7100).

 

Compared to an overclocked i7 920 the performance is in par: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-7100-vs-Intel-i5-4440-vs-Intel-i7-920/2924vs2017vs834

 


So it's not a performance issue, it's an instruction set issue and that's kinda new in gaming. imho, it's worth mentioning or they'll have a lot of tech support/refund requests at launch like Ubisoft did.

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While you are obviously free to be of the opinion that minimal requirements purely relate to performance, the general accepted meaning is that you will need the specified hardware to run the application. Your CPU is three generations behind the minimal requirements at least so it's not suitable to run DU.

 

In technology terms you are using a quite outdated CPU. It would be like driving around a 1950s car in today's traffic, it may be able to keep up but to say it's a safe or suitable way to drive in 2019 is at best questionable. Expecting technology and software development to continue to support outdated hardware is not reasonable.

 

The i3 7100 in every way out performs the i7 970 with half the core count, it's not even close.. TDP alone is 1/3 of what your CPU required, memory and bus speed is way, way higher on the i3. Lastly, using a 1080ti with a CPU that provides not even half the bandwidth it needs to perform optimal seems also a bit odd, it's pretty much like driving a fast car with the handbrake on all the time.

 

It would be very bad for NQ to accommodate ancient hardware by removing ways to be more efficient through modern day technology. I guess you have a choice to make here.

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6 hours ago, blazemonger said:

It would be very bad for NQ to accommodate ancient hardware by removing ways to be more efficient through modern day technology. I guess you have a choice to make here.

oh don't worry I made my choice (30+ years working as hardware / software dev on cpu & gpu so I think I know what my rigs can do and cannot do and what is marketing bullshit and what is not).

 

I'm not asking NQ to accommodate old hardware by being less efficient on modern cpu that have these instruction sets, that would be idiotic. The usual way to do this is to use the avx instructions is they're available and use regular , slower, code if they're not.

 

Why I think it's important for this game ? because it's targeted to be an 'free to buy' mmo with a paid subscription. There are a lot of people with what you call 'outdated' computers especially people playing mmo genre games that when DU launch would want to try it. I think it's better for this game to let them try it even it's slow on their computer rather than completely shutting them out with that error message. If the game is good then people will change or adapt their hardware to continue playing. I doubt most of them will change their hardware just to try the game. The latest steam survey indicates 88% support for AVX. Are these missing 12% worth a few lines of code change ? That's the question for NQ.

 

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1 hour ago, Kirth Gersen said:

Are these missing 12% worth a few lines of code change ? That's the question for NQ.

The question here would actually be 'should NQ be willing to sacrifice the loss in performance they believe degrades the experience in order to accommodate a relatively small percentage of potential users' as well as 'will the degraded performance lead to negative responses/reviews and thus possibly deter potential customers otherwise not affected by this' .

 

I believe that bottom line it's better to lose a few dues to a perfectly explainable reasons than to risk losing more due to unbalanced and uninformed negative reactions on performance.

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Hi everyone,

 

@Kirth Gersen

AVX instructions have been implemented in intel processors in 2011 and AMD processors in 2012 (for processors oriented to gaming activity, which generally does not include Xeon processors made before 2013 and Celeron processors). These instructions give a substantial improvement performance-wise. While a lot of games rely mostly on GPU Power, this is not the case for some games, using voxel technology. Voxel calculation is, for the moment, mostly handled on CPU side (at least for the moment, as no current GPU is optimized to calculate Voxels). That's why having AVX instructions is required.

 

For some games, it could make sense to make a "No AVX required" version. For others, like Dual Universe, it's not worth it: the performances would be so bad without AVX, that it's not worth it to spend a fair amount of time (re)developping a "No AVX required" version. So no, there is no short term plan to remove AVX requirements.

 

"Minimal" requirements are the minimal specs to be able to launch the game, not to have a decent game experience.

That's what "Recommanded" specs are for: to have a decent game experience.

 

That being said, if you want to ask for a refund for this reason, please contact the Customer Support at support@novaquark.com

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

 

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I have the same Problem. Just installed and now it says I need AVX. I dont even know what that is.

I can play ALL games, I got hundreds of games, this is the only one I know that requires a AVX. So it really doesnt work if you dont have a CPU with that? And I have played several Voxel games without problems yet. I just cant afford to upgrade my CPU, that would also mean to upgrade my Mainboard and a lot of other things. Thats just not going to happen anytime soon. 

The Kickstarter Campaing didnt say anything about AVX. My CPU is 6 years old, that cant be too old to play this game. I'm honestly not in the age anymore where I upgrade my CPU every 3 years. 

So, if this is a requiremend and it hasnt been stated on the kickstarter, is there a way of refund? As much as I like the game, there is no point in paying for it if I cant play it.

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Your CPU is at least 9 generations old. A few posts above this it was quite clearly explained why this is a requirement.

 

for anything else; support.dualthegame.com

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I did contact the support. In fact, my CPU is from 2012. And its able to play every game,m, also every other voxel game, because the rest of my PC got more actual hardware. So this is not a Hardware-Power question, its just about one single Feature. 

There was no need to upgrade my CPU, and there still is none. So it wont happen just for this single game. 

So its totally fine if they decided to add this requirement after the Kickstarter Campain, just asuming that all first day supporters are just going to upgrade their CPUs one day. But thats just not going to happen.

I'm a programmer myself, and whenever we had such problems, I also said "what? They still use Windows 7? But thats not even supported anymore, its 10 years old! We cant help these customers, they have to upgrade". But this never works, specially when the costumers already paid for the service. And even today, about 40% of Windows users still use a 10 year old Windows 7 version. Thats just how people are. I have also seen people drive in cars older then 6 years. In my early PC-Geek ages, I upgraded my PC like every 2 years. Now I just upgrade some modules, and only do a full CPU/Mainboard upgrade like every 10 years. GPU got much more important.

So its totally not a suprise that people still use CPUs without AVX. And they can play every game, any voxelgame without Problem. And I'm just not Geek enough anymore to upgrade my PC just for one game that I MIGHT like one day. 

Its sad that this requirement came up after the Campain, but at this point I would expect the developers to say "Thank you a lot for your early support, without you and all the other supporters, all this would have been impossible. But we are sorry to tell you that we developed the game in a direction where it requires a special Feature of the CPU, a feature that all PCs made before 2012 dont have. We are aware that CPUs dont get upgraded that frequently anymore, so you and other supporters might not be able to play our game. But for development reasons we cant change anymore, we depend on this feature. We are also aware that you PC might totally be able to run the game and many other games like DU, and only this single feature is stopping you from playing it. We understand that its frustrating and feel sorry for our early supporters who cant play the game. We thank you a lot for your support and we offer you to refund you the game, and hope that you come back one day."

Honestly, thats what I expect a developer to say to an early supporter, who cant play the game because of a special requirement change. And it doesnt seem like I'm the only one with that problem. Just like i didnt believe that anyone on earth is still using Win 7 anymore, or Internet Explorer. We didnt even optimize for Safari Browsers anymore, because only a few % of people use it. Big mistake and many angry costumers ;)

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You may have bought your CPU in 2012 but it is not from 2012 as it would be an Ivy Bridge chip and have the AVX instruction set.

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The CPU is from 2010, it was the high-end CPU from AMD at that point. I bought it 2012. It was still sold for many more years (just like many other non-AVX CPUs). This CPU is even been sold on ebay and amazon today. Im pretty sure people who dont buy high-end CPUs have been buying non-AVX CPUs until 2016. 

 

I mean, people still buy cars that have been build 2009. Isnt that crazy? Or use windows 7 thats even older.

 

As i said, this is not about power or voxels. I play new voxel games all the time. And its no suprise that CPUs dont get upgraded that frequently anymore. Honestly, my DVD drive is even older. My monitor is 9 years old, but its still HD. My Network-cable is just the same age. 

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What other new voxel game are you referring to? While I can't discuss detail due to NDA, there is no current voxel based game that applies the voxel concept quite like DU does.

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I dont know about the voxel concept of DU, because it has been in development for 3 years after kickstarter.

 

I play games like

Space Engineers (huge voxelbased game)

7 days 2 die

Empyrion

Planet explorers

 

These kind of huge space sandbox online voxel games are just my favourit. None ever asked for AVX and they all run fine.

 

Infact if you try to google for games that need AVX, you find only the new games of Ubisoft. A publisher for high-end games that reaches most people on the world. I mean they could expect people to just upgrade to play, cant they?

After release, they patched their games back to not need AVX, because too many people didnt have it. Strange, isnt it?

 

So, DU is needing something special, something even ubisoft failed to force on customers. Im sure they got a good reason. But they need to be aware that they need something that many people dont have and many of the early supporters dont have. The reason that voxel games just need AVX is just wrong. 

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None of the game's you mention is anything like DU in how they work with voxels. The given you do not realise this kind of kills the argument here. 

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9 hours ago, Dereknor said:

failed to force on customers.

?

 

NQ gave you an explanation. It's not "forced upon" customers. It's simply needed to run the game. "Forcing" smth would be if they only support AMD ryzen CPUs. 

Other games are demanding on GPU - and they aren't "forcing" anyone either. Those games simply require a certain minimun standard. Just like du needs AVX 

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My argument is NOT that DU doesnt need AVX or that NQ is forcing AVX on the customers. So I think I need to make it more clear for you:

My Argument is:
DU made a Kickstarter Campain in 2016 and got enough support to start developing.
In 2017 they changed the requirements and told that DU is going to need a CPU with AVX. Thats a development decission they made and its fine. I totally believe that DU needs AVX.
The Argument that voxel games just need AVX and that everyone could have assumed that DU is going to need AVX is wrong. As I said, ALL other Voxel games dont need AVX.

Ubisoft(!) tried to force AVX on its customers and failed, just too many people cant use it, so they had to patch it out of their games again.

So, what do we have? This is a game that got crowdfunded. After that they decided to go with a special CPU feature that new CPUs got and made it a requirement. No supporter could have seen that coming (just because it is a voxel game). The argument is, that all people of the target group just got new CPUS or have to upgrade. A strategy that failed badly for a big studio, showing that NOT everyone has AVX or is just willing to upgrade. And DU is the only game that needs AVX (ok, maybe 2 or 3 others in 7 years!).

All arguments that voxels need AVX, that it could be assumed that this game needs AVX or that people just are going to upgrade and only a minority of people dont have AVX are actual wrong.
The argument that DU needs AVX and doesnt force it on customers is totally true.

 

I hope I could clear up the situation.

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6 minutes ago, Dereknor said:

The argument that DU needs AVX and doesnt force it on customers is totally true.

Then I don't see the problem. Requirements change over time. DU needed AVX to progress so they implemented it (as said by NQ too).....

 

I honestly fail to see what problem you have with changing requirements in a crowdfunded game. It happens. It's needed. So.....?

 

Ninjaedit: yes, NQ could've announced that earlier / made it more clear. But then again all never CPUs have it already, so probably they didn't think of it being an issue 

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Requirements change, meaning you need some more power or its going to be a bit slower on older machines. Requirements rarly change so that 15% of the people who supported the projects cant use it, no matter if they got the power or not.

Its totally OK to make such a decission, but you have to stand to your decission and say "ok, we are sorry for 15% of our supporters and are going to refund you". 

If you make a crowdfunding for a new car, people support you and pay for it, and a year later you change the requirements so that car can only be used in 80% of the countries of your supporters, I'm pretty sure the other 20% of the supporters demand a refund too. 

But I already send a request, so lets see. My main Problem is, that I'm disappointed, sad, and suprised by how easily people think that 15% of the players are just dumb for not having upgraded CPUs. 

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17 minutes ago, Dereknor said:

The Argument that voxel games just need AVX and that everyone could have assumed that DU is going to need AVX is wrong.

No one made that argument .. And again, your compare with predefined block based voxel games does not hold as DU is nothing like any of these games in how voxels are handled, can be manipulated and in what numbers.

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Quote

But I already send a request, so lets see. My main Problem is, that I'm disappointed, sad, and suprised by how easily people think that 15% of the players are just dumb for not having upgraded CPUs. 

 

You paid $15 at most on kickstarter.. I made you an offer you appear to ignore. So what is it? You here to get a refund or just to whine and complain about a non issue?

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