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vylqun

Realistic incentives for City building

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Low price, what is better on earth now. I would like to go buying at a place got stuff with low price. Then many people will come to buy. Demand and Supply. The price will go high so do attract many seller and the buyer keep growth.

You see Central market isnt something that if want it will be there. It accumulate many thing before everyone else realize it turn into something important to the economic.

 

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Governments and cities were formed for the sake of survival.

 

First and foremost, to provide for the common defense. Secondly, for economic reasons, particularly agriculture, as it allowed our societies to focus on things other than hunting and gathering, and later, it gave us a large concentration of jobs and ways to make a living.

 

So long as there is a present and real danger from outside forces, and a real economic need for players to be in cities, they will form.

 

The key word here is real. Artificial incentives likely won’t work, and making bases too easy to defend will diminish the incentive to congregate.

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8 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

The biggest danger force i think is PIRACE, worse than grifer.

Exactly, and it needs to be there to balance risk/reward, which will cause many players to build together.

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30 minutes ago, ShioriStein said:

The biggest danger force i think is PIRACE, worse than grifer.

You can at least try to bribe pirate, promise him periodic payment for "protection". Unless he's dumb, he's aware that attacking your base will make you move somewhere else, pay for bounty, support forces hunting pirates, ect.

 

It won't work against griefer - he's madman who just want to destroy.

 

1 hour ago, Snipester said:

Governments and cities were formed for the sake of survival.

 

First and foremost, to provide for the common defense. Secondly, for economic reasons, particularly agriculture, as it allowed our societies to focus on things other than hunting and gathering, and later, it gave us a large concentration of jobs and ways to make a living.

 

So long as there is a present and real danger from outside forces, and a real economic need for players to be in cities, they will form.

 

The key word here is real. Artificial incentives likely won’t work, and making bases too easy to defend will diminish the incentive to congregate.

Agriculture works better with small, spread settlements. It require way too much space to function in towns.
Development of agriculture was one of requirements for towns to exist, due to efficiency. But not reason for them, nor their function.

 

Trade and craft - those were the main functions of first towns. Then defence needed to protect trade and craft. Then more trade and craft to supply defence. Then even more defence.

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1 hour ago, CalenLoki said:

You can at least try to bribe pirate, promise him periodic payment for "protection". Unless he's dumb, he's aware that attacking your base will make you move somewhere else, pay for bounty, support forces hunting pirates, ect.

 

It won't work against griefer - he's madman who just want to destroy.

But griefer isnt many, isnt too strong, just minor. With good way you can defend against griefer even they use try hard method.

About pirate, they are dangerous because if their demand be satisfies, they will try to demand for more to the point you arent enough and then to realiza you have work like a dog for them all the time. But also pirate got organize well, so they usually a group or a big group and very dangerous because they are not minor and they working as a team which griefer didnt usually do.

But ... a large group of griefer stay together to troll, destroy other is a REAL threat....

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I can imagine the cities being useful for jobs and such. Players would be attracted to the cities if they didnt want to do something big, like an organization, for solo players it would be much easier to start a small buisness (AKA a bar/shop/restraunt) This is also good because it would propogate more economics. If possible i think it'd be cool for players to buy homes from other players, so people pay for the crazy detailed and complex building that they wouldn't be able to build, maybe due to lack of skill. I love the concept of a bustling city that isnt just there for looks. And the city having requirements would provide more contracts for people. I can imagine the worker in the electrical plant causing a city wide overload and then blackout. :lol:

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8 hours ago, Anotaros said:

 I can imagine the worker in the electrical plant causing a city wide overload and then blackout. :lol:

you can add endless grind thats obly inportant to the player himself to the game, but its definitely impossible to add long time, grindy, jobs like those to the game if other players depend on them. 

Boring work is only feasable if you cant live without it, this sense of urgency is impossible in a game. And i dont talk about the few instances of hardcore rp here.

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I'm thinking there needs to be game play elements, Like there were in the Original StarWars MMO, like 'mental damage' that you could only get fixed though social interactions. Medical facilities required for 'permanent' damage from over time, vs the easily fixed damage.

Other things like some sort of maintenance costs, that were physical devices that were not made/transported by magic, such as food and fuel. Factories and refineries that need to be protected from PvP. Maybe a 'retooling' cooldown to create different objects from the same factory/refinery (including the initial tooling), which would give purpose to multiple factories. Larger PowerSources/Refineries/Factories being more efficient in their purpose.

More economy would be some sort of maintenance vs a degradation over time of components that wouldn't be impossible for a single character to fix, but be a lot easier though a community.

Edited by eklypse0
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On 4/14/2018 at 11:01 PM, vylqun said:

you can add endless grind thats obly inportant to the player himself to the game, but its definitely impossible to add long time, grindy, jobs like those to the game if other players depend on them. 

Boring work is only feasable if you cant live without it, this sense of urgency is impossible in a game. And i dont talk about the few instances of hardcore rp here.

I'm looking again at the Original SWG mechanics, where you would have to do only moderate upkeep to keep your mines/factories/powerplants in order. You could have multiple players with the same function for redundancy of resources, like power. There are players who enjoy this sort of in-game contribution.

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I'm very interested in seeing how civilization building will work. Isn't this actually a big ficus in the game following the lore of rebuilding civilization and colonizing new worlds? Seems like it's own game within the game, build cities (or rather civilizations).

Regardless of existential porpoises, is not building the city a challenge and a purpose in itself?

I say so.

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3 hours ago, dw_ace_918 said:

Regardless of existential porpoises, is not building the city a challenge and a purpose in itself?

I say so.

Not really, no. Resources will be rather limited, so wasting them on constructs which have no benefit at all won't happen except for some smaller RP guilds or really big guilds which build an HQ for their reputation. Thats why city building needs to be a nessecary requirement for advanced active elements. Power consumption and production would provide that, as well as certain dependencies between elements.

If you hope that people will create cities just because they can, then they will be very, very rare. Not much of a civilization building game^^

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22 minutes ago, vylqun said:

Not really, no. Resources will be rather limited, so wasting them on constructs which have no benefit at all won't happen except for some smaller RP guilds or really big guilds which build an HQ for their reputation. Thats why city building needs to be a nessecary requirement for advanced active elements. Power consumption and production would provide that, as well as certain dependencies between elements.

If you hope that people will create cities just because they can, then they will be very, very rare. Not much of a civilization building game^^

Keep in mind that shelter - even the perception of this - is one of the primary requirements of human activity. Ingrained reflex. It'll be an exception for people to not go down such paths, unless the devs build in guiding constraints. 

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1 hour ago, vylqun said:

Not really, no. Resources will be rather limited, so wasting them on constructs which have no benefit at all won't happen except for some smaller RP guilds or really big guilds which build an HQ for their reputation. Thats why city building needs to be a nessecary requirement for advanced active elements. Power consumption and production would provide that, as well as certain dependencies between elements.

If you hope that people will create cities just because they can, then they will be very, very rare. Not much of a civilization building game^^

What else would I waste my resources on? Gather them to build stuff, and sell stuff... idk...

I think people will gravitas towards civilization and creating; to belong and express.

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There are many people who simply enjoy making things.  We would need no reason to build a city other than being able to do it.   There are also many people who do not understand those motivations.  We do not know what portion of each kind DU will attract.

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59 minutes ago, Ben Fargo said:

There are many people who simply enjoy making things.  We would need no reason to build a city other than being able to do it.

Of course, but that will only be doable in safe zones, because everywhere where pvp is possible security will be the most important part, and building good defense and ships uses up a lot o resources.

If the game would be pure pve, ofc, many people will build bases and stuff, even if tis just decoration, but with pvp involved that wont be the case, building decorations in pvp enabled zones is pretty much suicidal.

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As I've said before elsewhere, what we currently know about DU's mechanics makes me believe that the "civilization" we'll be building in DU will be similar to the Medieval era on earth.

 

That means outside of the arkship safezone, there will be fortified "city states" that exist in a semi-permanent state of war. The prospect of complete destruction of those city states will be a daily reality, and military preparedness and vigilance will be the highest priority for any group choosing to live in the FFA-PVP zone.

 

So before you start building office towers and parks and bars, you'll be building shields, turrets, bunkers and walls. And "zoning regulations" will favour good fields of fire and restricting the movement of attackers... :D

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4 hours ago, vylqun said:

Of course, but that will only be doable in safe zones, because everywhere where pvp is possible security will be the most important part, and building good defense and ships uses up a lot o resources.

If the game would be pure pve, ofc, many people will build bases and stuff, even if tis just decoration, but with pvp involved that wont be the case, building decorations in pvp enabled zones is pretty much suicidal.

The safe zones will only be a relatively small portion of DU.  I do not think it is realistic to expect that all creative building will be limited to them.  While everything outside the safe zones will need to be defended, that does not mean defense will always be the primary factor in how it is designed.

 

To me, there is no reason to have any defenses unless someone has built something that is worth defending.  For other people, defending their territory is a goal in itself.  Scarce resources lead to people using everything available on defense.  It can also cause them to form extensive alliances so they can avoid destroying those resources by fighting.  What is prevalent will depend on which people decide to play DU.

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4 hours ago, Nanoman said:

Nah, us noble noveans are way too evolved for such pettiness.

 

War, greed and corruption shall be a thing of the past. There shall be no more famine, disease or inequality. Lions and lambs shall walk hand in hand, and work together to raise harmonious cities and magnificent beacons of advanced civilization.

 

We learn to live, when we learn to give. Each other what we need to survive, together alive. Side by side on my piano.

 

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You sound like a new born child naive to think hate and war will never be included in society 

 

20 minutes ago, Ben Fargo said:

The safe zones will only be a relatively small portion of DU.  I do not think it is realistic to expect that all creative building will be limited to them.  While everything outside the safe zones will need to be defended, that does not mean defense will always be the primary factor in how it is designed.

 

To me, there is no reason to have any defenses unless someone has built something that is worth defending.  For other people, defending their territory is a goal in itself.  Scarce resources lead to people using everything available on defense.  It can also cause them to form extensive alliances so they can avoid destroying those resources by fighting.  What is prevalent will depend on which people decide to play DU.

Pretty much more or less

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It is one big place of PvP Heaven, what do you think will happen when people dont get together for defences........

 

Lets turn the question around, why would you not build a city?

 

-Because you like to get robbed of your stuff every day

-Because dying is the new Living

-Reincarnation Rules!

-I love the arc and im never gone move

-OOh pink Fluffy Unicorn

-Snowflake preservation territory

-I'm gone build a flyer on day one and im out of here

-im with the 1000 peops org, who hurts me has a bad day

-AMO

 

;)  Just because i love to build beach resorts would be my main reason to be in the city or not

 

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These are some quotes from a recent article regarding Building, and Cities in DU. Not allot of info, but its great to hear the thought process and direction JC is going in that regard. I don't know about you but this has got me even more excited.

 

You can read the full Article here: http://massivelyop.com/2018/05/02/massively-op-interview-dual-universe-demo-shows-off-advances-in-city-building-space-travel/

 

Quote

    “Apart from the city, which is something we are working on (and we have very very good hopes that we are going to fix it) — apart from that everything is totally fluid already,” he told me, noting that there might need to ultimately be a limit to how much construction can happen in a specific volume of space to maintain that, but he doesn’t think it will get to that point.


    Speaking of limits, there are a few already. For instance, players cannot stack a million office chairs in a space to create a lag trap. As Baillie emphasized, “We will have limits that make sense from the creative standpoint, but will still prevent someone [from] trying to create sort of a lag ship — something that flies near you and just lags you.”

 

 

Quote

Baillie noted that he was seeing some of the builds in our travels for the very first time, and for him that’s a major asset of DU; he loves being surprised, and this game offers new things to discover constantly. That is something I am really looking forward to as well.


    In our afternoon tour we traveled to various planets and moons (there are 12 now), checking out a number of various bases and ships. We perused underground builds, mountaintop builds, and waterfront builds, from castles to cathedrals to outposts to mega bases. We even visited a player-build city (one of the specific events devs requested to test specific features).


    M.J. Guthrie, Write of the MassivelyOP Article says: "I fully admit that one of my favorite things to do will be exactly that: traveling the universe and admiring all the creations."

 

 

Quote

Baillie noted that his devs have read and listened to what many MOP commenters have said: They want the option to build creatively without the fear of having it destroyed by PvP. Back during our first interview, Baillie remarked that there would likely be additional safe zones beside the one spot around the game entry point. That has come to pass. I can confirm that a large moon in game with 20-30,000 land tiles is already designated as a sanctuary. That means that no one can take a property tile away or damage the contents of it. It should be noted that current plans are for players to only own one tile on a sanctuary planet or moon, while they can own multiples on other open planets (though owning many becomes increasingly more expensive). Other sanctuaries are planned for other solar systems.


     Baillie emphasized that “no information will ever be lost.” That even includes ships lost in battle; if your ship is blown up, you can rebuild it from the snapshot that is taken of the ship before it was destroyed so that you can rebuilt it and include all modifications and upgrades.


    Baillie stressed to me that the game is about the content that the players make — the political intrigues, the economy, and the stories. “It’s not just about building stuff, building spaceships or cities, etc.,” he said. “It’s also building the stories, building what people are going to fight for, whom you’re going to join with as a gamer — what kind of agenda you are going to stick to.” Put succinctly, “It isn’t just building structures; it is building social structures and goals.”

 

 

Also, there is NEW video with Pre-Alpha footage, check out the city that some players are already making in DU. (Video was released with permission from NovaQuark).

 

 

 

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On 4/13/2018 at 11:11 AM, Snipester said:

Governments and cities were formed for the sake of survival.

 

First and foremost, to provide for the common defense. Secondly, for economic reasons, particularly agriculture, as it allowed our societies to focus on things other than hunting and gathering, and later, it gave us a large concentration of jobs and ways to make a living.

 

So long as there is a present and real danger from outside forces, and a real economic need for players to be in cities, they will form.

 

The key word here is real. Artificial incentives likely won’t work, and making bases too easy to defend will diminish the incentive to congregate.

I agree you do not need to give a incentive to make groups they will happen naturally especially in a survival game

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On 5/1/2018 at 12:34 PM, Nanoman said:

Poor soul, one day us noble civilized beings shall bring to Antarctica the wonders of punctuation. And irony.

 

Just hang in there... :D

?

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