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Question on losing inventory upon death

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7 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

That is indeed interesting.

 

So if the PLEX market "crashes" in EVE, all player-made items suddenly jump 200-400% in price ?

 

I've no clue why that would be the case, but given that DU's economy will be closely modeled on EVE, we can expect the same to happen in DU.

 

Except that in DU's case, the money supply is capped by NQ, so this effect is likely to be amplified. I wonder if NQ have considered this ?

Yeah, prices tend to just jump. Randomly.

 

Has nothing to do with me selling 50 PLEX and actually using that money to manipulate the market while at the same time using alts and spies (who told several people several different things over weeks) to snap the trap.....after that coup i could've bought 500plex. But the Market was dead for 6months anyway.

 

If it's too easy to ship high value goods safely and with No risk ppl will do the same in Du. But hey, pls do it. I love such shenenigans

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The whole point here is that you should not have to transport DAC to store or use it. It is an account bound commodity which only becomes an in game one once you bring it in to the game. As long as I do not it should be untouchable by anyone but me and I should have the ability to add DAC I buy in game to this stack to safeguard it as well.

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51 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Yeah, prices tend to just jump. Randomly.

 

Has nothing to do with me selling 50 PLEX and actually using that money to manipulate the market while at the same time using alts and spies (who told several people several different things over weeks) to snap the trap.....after that coup i could've bought 500plex. But the Market was dead for 6months anyway.

 

If it's too easy to ship high value goods safely and with No risk ppl will do the same in Du. But hey, pls do it. I love such shenenigans

The market manipulation you describe here is possible regardless of whether DAC and other "high value items" are lootable or not.

 

All it requires is for someone to be willing to spend a large wad of RL cash to transfer ingame currency from other players to themselves. You did it in EVE, somebody will undoubtedly do it in DU as well. Once that currency is concentrated in a single wallet, the shenanigans can commence ! :D

 

Incidentally, that has been my objection to DAC (and PLEX) all along, but nobody on these forums seems to think it will be a problem. Nobody except you and me, it seems...

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2 hours ago, Telonia_Star said:

sorry to be noob but what does DAC stand for?

Something like "Dual Access Coupon". May be wrong.

It's an in-game item (physical or not, TBD) that you can use to pay your game subscription. Or to give/sell someone so he can buy subscription.

AFAIK there was some secondary way to use it. Something like paying for resources? DK

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6 hours ago, NanoDot said:

The market manipulation you describe here is possible regardless of whether DAC and other "high value items" are lootable or not.

 

All it requires is for someone to be willing to spend a large wad of RL cash to transfer ingame currency from other players to themselves. You did it in EVE, somebody will undoubtedly do it in DU as well. Once that currency is concentrated in a single wallet, the shenanigans can commence ! :D

 

Incidentally, that has been my objection to DAC (and PLEX) all along, but nobody on these forums seems to think it will be a problem. Nobody except you and me, it seems...

It's OK, obviously you don't get it as you never really dig deep into Trading mechanics. We will see how it will develop - I'm sure NQ finds a good way

 

Edit: If you really think that such manipulations can be done (or are the same thing as) with bulk material compared to safe, small, weightless DAC then you really need to look into some mechanics again Like storing those goods, ship sizes to transport it (compared to no ship needed), ...

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19 hours ago, NanoDot said:

That is indeed interesting.

 

So if the PLEX market "crashes" in EVE, all player-made items suddenly jump 200-400% in price ?

 

I've no clue why that would be the case, but given that DU's economy will be closely modeled on EVE, we can expect the same to happen in DU.

 

Except that in DU's case, the money supply is capped by NQ, so this effect is likely to be amplified. I wonder if NQ have considered this ?

NQ will interfere if something may ruin the game. They have said it from begin. A Game player driven but it still a game, they cant let it go to ruin.

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I find it hard to believe any one person would be able to crash markets in EVE, you can impact prices and drive demand sure, but crash? not happening. 

 

IMO NQ has been really strong on the player driven aspect of the game. They have said and should initially help the economy along and will do so by starting of using NPC traders but these should eventually fade out and leave only actual players. I doubt that NQ will directly change or interfere on the markets, that would go against the very vision they are trying to create.

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But they also say if something go wrong, or something might ruin the game, they will interfere but just dont know which say but still interfere.

About crash the market, we still dont know lmao. If sell bigger than demand , economic crisis like 1929 - 1933 still might happen, especially in DU because people seem take lightly about economic.

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I kind of like how topic evolved.

 

If due to some manipulations value of money drops (=everything cost more quanta), it would only hurt those who hoard money, rather than investing in physical resources.

IMO it could enhance emergent gameplay, as hoarding everything wouldn't be totally safe.

 

Also in DU markets will be localised. So it may be much harder to crash them than globalised markets.

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3 minutes ago, CalenLoki said:

Also in DU markets will be localised. So it may be much harder to crash them than globalised markets.

Localized ones are way easier to crash in certain areas as they can't get their goods from the outside that easily. Single, far away markets can be manipulated easier while building your monopoly and preparing for complete hostile takeover. 

In eve you can only dominate perhaps some of the market and crash it for everyone else because hauling there is easy and doesn't take that long. 

In Du it's way harder to haul stuff, takes way longer and you need space to store it at the market. 

So yeah, it's easier to kill an isolated market for everyone else living there, especially with DACs

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Liotable after the first sale is an excellent compromise.  It both allows the noob some security while allowing the fencers and chancers to earn some coin.  

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I hope that all resources on your ship and person would be up for grabs from the opponent. If you have a territory all resources stored there would be vulnerable after 48 hours and a successful attack. It is likely you will be able to store valuables in an ark city that can never be influenced or lost, but perhaps there would be maximum weight or capacity in that ark city.

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On 4/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, blazemonger said:

I find it hard to believe any one person would be able to crash markets in EVE, you can impact prices and drive demand sure, but crash? not happening. 

 

IMO NQ has been really strong on the player driven aspect of the game. They have said and should initially help the economy along and will do so by starting of using NPC traders but these should eventually fade out and leave only actual players. I doubt that NQ will directly change or interfere on the markets, that would go against the very vision they are trying to create.

I think NQ stated that they reserve the right to re-implement the NPC traders to help stabilize the economy at a later point if need be.  I'm not sure where to even look for a source on that one, so I may just be blowing smoke :P

 

I also remember a discussion on the topic a long time back, so I may be getting it confused with a player's thoughts on the issue.

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On 4/10/2018 at 3:20 AM, Kurock said:

When you die in DU you lose your inventory (half disappears and half is lootable) but keep your quanta and your master blueprints. (At least that was the original plan from NQ)

 

Lootablilty of DACs is a sticky topic. Originally NQ said they would *not* be lootable and there was a loud disproportional stink about it. So this has been discussed before...at length. You can wade though that topic here:

 

A point that was raised is that someone paid real money for the DAC and then it got stolen. Let's repeat that: A player paid for something and got no return for it. NQ is ethically and morally bound not to allow that. And no, crying "git good noob" does not somehow make that OK.

 

Solutions

The EvE system to bank PLEX is one solution but will take precious dev time. Another that was suggested is that DACs are unlootable until they are sold for the first time. The effect of this is that hoarding in-game bought DACs carry an inherent risk which I have no issue with. A player can pop them immediately for time or accept the risk of keeping them.

This also drags my concern of support packs NQ promised like Resurrection Nodes and Sanctuary Territory Unit (STU) will they be lootable or inpossible to steal?

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22 hours ago, Circles said:

I hope that all resources on your ship and person would be up for grabs from the opponent. If you have a territory all resources stored there would be vulnerable after 48 hours and a successful attack. It is likely you will be able to store valuables in an ark city that can never be influenced or lost, but perhaps there would be maximum weight or capacity in that ark city.

I really do not belive in the whole time displacement systym like the sheild genorator 24-48h wait after you hit it once for some to come online and same with loot It should be governed by a health bar by how much reasorces you choose to put in to protect your land rather than a shoot a laser come back in 24h profit

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57 minutes ago, unown006 said:

This also drags my concern of support packs NQ promised like Resurrection Nodes and Sanctuary Territory Unit (STU) will they be lootable or inpossible to steal?

IIRC they are skins.  And as such, they ARE lootable... but you can use the skins on the next node/unit you use.

 

So you receive a resurrection node, but it's lootable.  If you lose it, you can use the skin on another node.  Can't 100% recall though.

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24 minutes ago, Hades said:

IIRC they are skins.  And as such, they ARE lootable... but you can use the skins on the next node/unit you use.

 

So you receive a resurrection node, but it's lootable.  If you lose it, you can use the skin on another node.  Can't 100% recall though.

I did not realize they were skins you recived I was led to believe they were items recived upon joining the game

 

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12 minutes ago, unown006 said:

I did not realize they were skins you recived I was led to believe they were items recived upon joining the game

 

They are.  But you also receive a skin.  I also might be making this up, but I swear NQ commented on it.

 

Basically, you receive a node with the skin applied for purchasing the pack.  You might lose that node, but you can build another and apply the skin.  Will look around to see if I can find it... or the lack thereof could imply I’m wrong ;)

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1 hour ago, unown006 said:

I really do not belive in the whole time displacement systym like the sheild genorator 24-48h wait after you hit it once for some to come online and same with loot It should be governed by a health bar by how much reasorces you choose to put in to protect your land rather than a shoot a laser come back in 24h profit

Your entire building structure will be made out of potentially valuable resources, not to mention the time invested to maintain that structure. If there is no time to gather forces before your shields and ultimately core are vulnerable then it will be un-fair. It could already be an un-fair fight and that one compromise gives time for war prep that could determine days of work being won or lost. The important part is that all that work can still be lost, and that the code isn't babying the gamer.

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9 minutes ago, Circles said:

Your entire building structure will be made out of potentially valuable resources, not to mention the time invested to maintain that structure. If there is no time to gather forces before your shields and ultimately core are vulnerable then it will be un-fair. It could already be an un-fair fight and that one compromise gives time for war prep that could determine days of work being won or lost. The important part is that all that work can still be lost, and that the code isn't babying the gamer.

I beleive you did not read far enough as You could have a infinte amount of time potentially depending on how NQ balances it life isnt fair deal with it and the defender should aways have a atvantage regardless 

 

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4 minutes ago, unown006 said:

I beleive you did not read far enough as You could have a infinte amount of time potentially depending on how NQ balances it life isnt fair deal with it and the defender should aways have a atvantage regardless 

 

If planetary domination isn't even possible because someone is loaded with in game cash they paid RL cash for then that certainly is unbalanced. I don't think that will be the case and defending will come down to the difference of power of weapons and ships.

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1 hour ago, Circles said:

If planetary domination isn't even possible because someone is loaded with in game cash they paid RL cash for then that certainly is unbalanced. I don't think that will be the case and defending will come down to the difference of power of weapons and ships.

I really do not follow your conclusion as anyone with enough money could potentially do anything 

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