Any footage of DU shooting experience?

[TheMasterArchitect]

I'd like to see some videos of assault rifles being used in DU.  Are there any videos like that out there?  Yeah ship fighting is cool but I want some ground action.

[Lethys]

As ava and cvc are only implemented at a later stage (my guess is late alpha for ava), there are naturally no videos of that mechanic.

[Evil_Porcupine]

43 minutes ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

Yeah ship fighting is cool but I want some ground action.

There hasn't been any videos of that, have there?

 

Also, I'm imagining that AvA will come with the beta, so sometime next year. We will likely get a video + tutorial thing beforehand.

[Anaximander]

FYI they have said the game is not a shooter. So the closest example of said combat model, would be ESO locked in first person.

[TheMasterArchitect]

4 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

FYI they have said the game is not a shooter. So the closest example of said combat model, would be ESO locked in first person.

Really hope thats not the case

[TheMasterArchitect]

We need assault rifles, rocket launchers, c4, etc.

[TheMasterArchitect]

https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Weapon_Unit

 

The gamepedia for dual universe suggests there will be weapons.

 

found an old post from the community manager as well on this

___________________________________________________________________________________________

There's currently no plan to create a voxel editor to develop character weapons.

At the moment, character weapons are planned to be mesh-based, and defined by developers.

The Dev team has already a lot on her plate with our current goals. Maybe far in the future, but we can't promise anything for now.

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

[Anaximander]

56 minutes ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

Really hope thats not the case

It's in the kickstarter video. They will have weapons, it just won't be based on bullet spawned physics ala Battlefield, just lock-and-fire, with elaborate algorithms for hit chance (project update 21 on kickstarter). It's a requirement for such gameplay route, due to the game's programming model, based on action prediction and its massive numbers of player concentration.

[Forodrim]

3 hours ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

Really hope thats not the case

JC answered that in the "ask me anything" video:

 

 

[NanoDot]

AFAIK, the combat systems will be the last major game feature to be implemented, so it will be many months yet before there's video's of combat mechanics available.

 

NQ want to implement the "full game loop" in sequence, so first scanning and mining, then refining, then crafting and building. Creation of things will come first, destruction will come last. In a way, I think NQ want to send a message that DU is not intended to be "all about combat"...

[Captain Jack]

8 hours ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

Really hope thats not the case

That is what they intend. Less emphasis on low pings and twitchy reflexes.

[Evil_Porcupine]

1 hour ago, NanoDot said:

AFAIK, the combat systems will be the last major game feature to be implemented

While it will be a latecomer, features such as inter system travel will be implemented later than combat, as they will come after release afaik.

[NanoDot]

59 minutes ago, Evil_Porcupine said:

While it will be a latecomer, features such as inter system travel will be implemented later than combat, as they will come after release afaik.

I meant "last core feature".

 

Things like inter-system travel will expand the core feature of Space Travel, which will only be possible at sub-light speed at launch. Things like warp drives and stargates will expand the travel options post launch.

 

There will be many additional features and expansions of existing features after launch, NQ have made that very clear. It's an MMO, after all, the game is never "finished"...

 

But none of those additions and expansions will fundamentally change the core game play of DU, because that's a recipe for disaster...

[Anaximander]

In either case, the baseline code for the Cobmat is in the game already, as they have sohwcased on the videos.

You raycast a person,  and depending on your weapon stats (like how fast you can track targets with it, an appproximation of the weapon's mass and size on its dataset of "tracking), modified by your skill training (like X-Weapon-Type Training 4/5 giving 205 more trtracking with said weapon) + gear (muscle enhancement on the armor to withstand recoil? I don't know) and depending on the enemy's movement and angle, you either miss or deal reudueced dmage or hity them really hard, depending on if NQ will utilise inverse moduli for the sniper gameplay ala EVE Online, where you hit people in ranges you'd "miss", but due to the stat based system ,yo uhit the m REALLYY hard, but your accuracy is crap if the target mvoes too fast at said range, so it's only good for ambushing people with a LOT of alpha damage.

 

Regardless, NQ indeed has to test construction, before moving to deconstruction. I mean, tihn kabout it, isn't the average game of Rainbow Six : siege, just Extreme Home Makeover? And the same thing will apply in DU, walls can be blown off in combat - since they are made out of voxels- , angles can be exploited by people with vertical motion (like jetpacks) and - hopefully - like EVE online, if you don't react, you die in seconds.

So, everyone will end up being happy eventually.

 

 

What I personally hope, is for NQ to add to the weapon's dataset of "optimal range" thingsl ike enviromental factoers, like "atmoshperic desnity" increasing the range of Ballistic weapons + Hybrid (railguns, blasters) and also reducing the dmage falloff of laser weapons, while also ALTITUDE (Yes, how high you are) making Ballistic + Hybrid weaponry able to hit further, since they utilise the planet's gravity in their fgavor - something that Lasers can't get an advantage off, the bonus on Lasers being they are VERY good at tracking ragets, since laserrs, got no recoil to contribute to the "tracking loss", netting Lasers an innate tracking bonus.

But that is just wishful thinking. NQ is the final word on such things -b but they are totally possible, given their model of programming being heavily dependent on datasets as the ones I explained.

 

[CoreVamore]

7 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

 the bonus on Lasers being they are VERY good at tracking ragets, since laserrs, got no recoil to contribute to the "tracking loss", netting Lasers an innate tracking bonus.

 

 

Lasers are magic after all :

 

 

 

 

[Anaximander]

4 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

Lasers are magic after all :

 

 

 

 

man, that vid and Durr Hurr Durr always get me laughing xD

[MasteredRed]

5 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

man, that vid and Durr Hurr Durr always get me laughing xD

Twerk. I'm playing this video but I can't help notice. I started it and the music was perfectly timed with your avatar going side to side...

 

How disturbing...

[Anaximander]

2 hours ago, MasteredRed said:

Twerk. I'm playing this video but I can't help notice. I started it and the music was perfectly timed with your avatar going side to side...

 

How disturbing...

I'm so meta.

[0something0]

How about laser small-arms?

 

You just project a line from the weapon to the max range(however that will be calculated) and see if anything hit it or not. No complicated bullet phyics required.

[Anaximander]

3 hours ago, 0something0 said:

How about laser small-arms?

 

You just project a line from the weapon to the max range(however that will be calculated) and see if anything hit it or not. No complicated bullet phyics required.

Here's the issue with any laser weaponry.

Lasers are REALLY POWERFUL flashlights if they are lamp-based (relaly powerful surge going through a coil, reflected via n inverted dome).

Alternatively, it's an X-RAY Laser or a "guided explosion". So, lasers, the FURTHER your project them, the L:ESS effective they become.

"Small arms" laser can happen, but they would be limtied via the laws of entropy on how high thier firerate is, since unlesss you carry portable uranium and exploding it and LIVING through it, the portable laser handgun is a lamplight laser, fed with energy via your own armor's power supply in-game.

Also, via the ivnerse square law, we know the aforementioend "the further a wave function goes (laser or light or sound) the less potent it becomes, as its itnensity is pspread over a larger surface Area". The opposite can apply with "angled" inverted mirrors, to get a "pinpoint, laser effect, or "focusing like a magnifiying glass" on a certai nrange.

Problkem with that, like the guided explosion laser, you need a certain maximum effective range, and the focused beam, havs a minimum effective ange.

So, for the sake of simplicity, we can take the EVE Online applciation of math over lasers.

Lasers in EVE Online need no reload (for Tier 1 focusing crystals), they consume a moderate amount of energy and they got h ifggh tracking "no "bullet travel" to compensate via math) , so lasers in EVE Online, have "short Optimal; Range" and an exapnsive falloff range (to the point the gun won't hit at all, cause missed shots)".

 

Lasers also have an innate effect. They are not projectiles, so they can't do much against armors that are made for toelrating a lot of heat. Yeah, fire a laser on a ceramic plate, it won't do much to it. But fire a bullt to a ceramic plate? Now you're talking.


In general, the EVE Online model can ap;ly in DU's case, each type of weapon technolgoy, from laser to railgun to good old fashioend bullets, have their place.

You may say "but laz0rs > bull3ts". No, they don't. Bullets need no pwoer supply, so the user can focus energy directly onto shields or other uses. Bulelts also acan adapt. Enemy armored?  Get some ArPen rounds on, now you can fight them. Enemy uses shields? Use some Disrutpro(EMP) round. Now yo ucan fight them. Eneym uses heavy armor with a lot of kinetic AND thermal resistance? Use some Explosive Rounds. Enemy uses Flak Heavy armor? Incendiary is your buddy. 

What does Laser have? Only EM and Thermal. LAsers are bottlencked to one damage type, whic h can vary, depending on the focusing crystal used, sure, but they are always EM and Thermal.

Railguns are the same, but for Kinetic + Thermal. They also need reload and take a lot of power to fire (hybrid btween bulelts and lasers). The bonus tpo Railguns/ Blasters? Holy Canolly Damage. The person yoou hit WILL feel the pain. Oh, targets too far away for lasers to hit and too far away for bulelts to have stopping power to even apply their fancy rounds? Railguns can hit that thing at that range. Problem with Railguns, well, aside the reload and energy cost... uranium shells cost...a lot.

So, the arguement "it's a laser, it needs no calculations" is false, even for classical physics.

Both the Railgun, Rifle and Laser, all use the same alggorithm for hit calculations. It's just their datasets (things like Accuracy, Tracking, Optimal Range,Rate of Fire() are dictated by variables expressed as approximations of other, neighbouring attributes. So, while Laser does indeed have no bullet that takes tiem to fly, it is STILL limited by the speed of light, so its POTENTIALLY EFFECT range is set to 1/1 as a value (100%) within the tracking function's algorithm, which means, if you were to trackign a person, they will be hit 100% of the times, but given laser's damage depends on range, the enemy might not even take any serious damage, but a midly solarium.

Hope this sheds some light.

[NanoDot]

5 hours ago, 0something0 said:

How about laser small-arms?

 

You just project a line from the weapon to the max range(however that will be calculated) and see if anything hit it or not. No complicated bullet phyics required.

That may be so, but DU will (hopefully) have more than just laser-based weaponry, and you can't have one weapon using twitch skills and another using target-lock and RNG mechanics, because it will totally unbalance the whole combat system.

[Anaximander]

23 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

That may be so, but DU will (hopefully) have more than just laser-based weaponry, and you can't have one weapon using twitch skills and another using target-lock and RNG mechanics, because it will totally unbalance the whole combat system.

No weapon uses twitch-skills in DU. All of them are based on a hit-chance algorithm that gets better or worse, depending on palyer actions.

[NanoDot]

5 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

No weapon uses twitch-skills in DU. All of them are based on a hit-chance algorithm that gets better or worse, depending on palyer actions.

I was replying to the suggestion that lasers "don't need complicated bullet physics calculations", which looked like an argument for lasers being "twitch-based" weapons.

 

Given the likely distances at which AvA combat will happen in DU, it's a reasonable argument, but I'm just saying that you can't mix twitch and RNG systems.

[Anaximander]

12 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

I was replying to the suggestion that lasers "don't need complicated bullet physics calculations", which looked like an argument for lasers being "twitch-based" weapons.

 

Given the likely distances at which AvA combat will happen in DU, it's a reasonable argument, but I'm just saying that you can't mix twitch and RNG systems.

Ah,. I see.

Still, NQ can't do real-time combat, lasers or bullets, the update rate from the NQ mainframe will not be the 33hz that most shooters update with. That's why they went with the actor model for their netcode. They utilise variables to make their combat happen.

It's not a matter of "the distances limit range in combat". They doj't. They will juts increase how long it will take to get the floating number of your damage done - even though NQ can indeed limit for w/e reason gamepaly associated.

Theoretically, if you can load a person in your POV, yo ucan raycast them and shoot them. Problme is, the asynchronous nature of the aforementioned actor model netcode, makes it so that "the target movig" means you will miss.

Example.

You have a gun that has a muzzle velcity varaible oof 1000 m/s - let's call it a super coilgun sniper rifle.

 

The server partitions its microservices on the planet at 100m3 itnervals. Every microsercice updates its adjacent microservices every 0.5 second. This means, that f1 km away, you will take 5 seconds to get an update if the target was hit or not, but the calcualtion for the hit chance is concurrent, meaning the server measures the hit-chnace on real-time.

if the target you shoot at 1 km away is moving - even to the slightest - the shot is missed. But if they are AFK? Shot hits.

The numbers I provided are just placeholders, I am not involved in the game's developement, I just wanted to shed some light on this.

This model also makes orbital strikes a thing, since a planet rotates at a constant rate ,hence, an orbital strike can be landed on ap recise point, especially if the ship orbits the planet in higher altitude,s essentailly translating its position in regards to the planet, thus being at "rest" with the target the orbital strikes are aimed at.

Again, this is just conjecture, an educated conjecture, but a conjecture none the less.  AvA can happen at ranges ships fight, like kilometers long, you just need a medium of rendering the enemy player you snipe at, case in point, POV projection, ala any shooter that has a "fade in" scope method.

 

You don't need bullet-spawns for skilled sniping at 1km distance. You just need to know math and know when to fire, lioke an actual sniper.

Cheers.

[MookMcMook]

My expectation is that AvA combat (shooting) will be relatively short-range and CvC will end up being the bread & butter. I guess AvA combat will be for going down rat-holes (inside ships, space-stations, and underground bases). CvC will probably rule (firepower and shields) open combat ie distances included??