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Black Ops and Cloaking technology development

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I was wondering what the community thinks as well as I'd NQ has decided if cloaking will be an option in the future. 

 

Obviously it will need to be balanced so, for example, someone can't cloak a 1,000 mile long ship and vessels too small won't be able to cloak. This can be accomplished by either power restrictions, area of effect if a bubble like system is in place, minimum and maximum mass requirements, or something which would not allow the element to work on ships too small or too large. 

 

This cloak should also have drawbacks such as disabling and/or affecting elements such as weapons systems not functioning as well as processing equipment, slower speeds, and possibly dimmer lights. 

 

These are just some ideas and I've not seen any other posts about cloaking. So I was curious as to what everyone thought. 

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Ah yeah, good old cloaking - this will be a fun thread xD

 

Imho we definitely need cloaks but only on certain ships which can't attack anyone/can't use weapons. These ships should be highly specialized and be detectable only by a highly specialized radar. Will write more later

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I like the idea of having a cloaking ability as long as there are some limitations around it such as High power consumption, Only available when you are not firing your weapons, Can be damaged. Other options for being detectable; Life sign scans? Maybe different cores and/or exposed core could be detectable with different instruments.

 

Just my 2 cents,

-Dewey

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I think NQ can move away from EVE's lame cloaking model. Don't get me wrong, proud Stratios flyboy here, bt I would love to see actual stealth, not harry potter magic or "Romulan" stealth.

I have made my suggestion in the past which is the following :

Magnetometric Stealth = Make your ship out of materials that are not ferromagnetic or magnetic in general - like how Battlestar Galactica's Blackbird oeprates, fully made out of carbon-fbiers to have very little Magnetometric signature, being registered like a space rock.

Gravitometric Stealth = Your ship's mass dictates your signature radius. This works well with the Magnetomteric Stealth idea, since carbon is very light - but not durable. There ain't no such thing as "Ninja Knight".

LADAR Stealth = simple heat emission system, add heat-sinks that decrease your heat emission and detect range.

RADAR Stealth = ship shape dictates your signature on it.

so, a small ship can be stealthy, but a large ship can be "hidden" for a certai nperiod.

So, if you were to make a "black ops battleship" let's say, you'd have a detect radius that varies.

Best part about this, they already have put in Aerodynamic Profiles as shown on the Dev Diaries, which can be retrofitted for Radar and they have showcased their magnetometers for mining in the GDC Steam (visit DU Explorers on youtube to see the video).

LADAR and Mass are easy to implement after that.

I would agree some "cloaking field" can be added, but make it like the Planetside 2 cloak for the AMS-Sunderers - good for concealing when at distance or from flyboys, but up close it's a visible sphere of a "watery" force field.

I'll be the first to say, that cloaking modules in EVE fade in comparison to the awesomeness of Recon Cruisers that are immune to Directional Scan.

 

 

Just no Harry Potter cloaks :P

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Activate the cloak of invisibility!

 

Yes everyone has made good points so far and I was thinking something along these lines as well. The different types of "hiding" a ship would be great as they are more realistic and work easily with game mechanics as mentioned. I was also reminded of the show "The Expanse" on sci-fi channel and how ships wee not invisible, but they were hard to detect as they came in for an attack or were spying on other ships. 

 

I'd like to spy on groups without them being aware of it so it can be reported back to high command where further action may or may not take place. 

 

I like the effect of Eve's cloak, but I agree it's too far into the realm of sci-fi and it may also be more of an issue to make a voxel grid disappear rather than using the methods of cloaking by Captain Twerkmotor. 

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5 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:



RADAR Stealth = ship shape dictates your signature on it.
 

Actually, it`s not just the shape, but also the material of the airframe-skin (I don't know what they use because it's military-secret). But I think it's a material that absorbs the oscillation of sound(frequency), meaning they are not that hard of material, to lower the echos that it won't even reach back the transmitting-radar. I don't know what material, but it's also the material of skin.

 

I also like the idea of having a concept of Pulse-Radar for stationary and Pulse-Doppler-Radar for dynamic-moving-constructs (like ships) in this game. Radar-system in general, I like that idea! With invisibility to Radar(unless you come close to it), the only way to take out that intruding-vehicle, is visibility of sight and manually shoot it. The material for stealth, make this hard to acquire, otherwise, everything in this game will be stealth-designed and that will render radars almost useless! (OP!)

 

Give us also jammers of radars(radio and radar are almost the same-thing) for electronic-warfare (something like the Growler-jet). GIve us AWACS (or AEW&C) technology where we can put the Radar-technology(through Radome) on a moving-plane itself that will fly higher to work as auxillary for radar-enemy-tracking and map-position of all friendlies, and relay these informations to the whole friendly-fleet in vicinity. 

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Also, soundwaves cannot travel in a vacuum (or space) because there is no medium(air). So there won't be any form of sound-transmission there. They use electromagnetic-radiation(called radio-waves. they are a form of light, not sound) to communicate(or track). Light can travel in vacuum and does not need a medium.

If we are to have radars, atleast have it in 2 forms; pulse(sound)-radar and radio(light)-radar, and even AM-transmission(mixture of both to increase range). Speed of Sound and Speed of Light, nobody cares, we wont even notice the difference (when we already have FTL in this game!!). but we gonna factor range for radars. If we are to have radars, put range for that. If we are talking about sound, the lower the frequency, the greater the range. the advantage of sound, it has lesser interference than radio, but it has shorter range than radio.

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I really like the post with all the stealth options. it would be neat to have choices. have a brittle, weak ship with stealth that is really hard to detect. have a large ship that can't be detected while you are standing still, but the moment it moves it can be scanned. different mixes with different parts and requirements 

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@Eternal

 

Sound can be absorbed and mitigated - easily. It's the same trick of soundproofing a studio. Sonars work only underwater cause when everyone's engines are muffled it's easier to discern a natural from a manmade sound. LADAR is space sonar in that regards - when everything is "burning" in comparison to the background of 3 Kelvins of vacuum, you don't need to see smoke to realise where heat's at.

Also, there is an innate problem with anything "pulse", it's called the Inverse Square Law and it's an unforgiving mistress, your RADAR is way more powerful when directed than when left pulsing. Also, RADARs can be detected, last thing you want is spamming a radiowave beacon in space, pinging everyone around you that "hey, I scan, hey, I scan, hey, I scan!", which is why LADAR is better for passive scanning, it just absorbs light from all over the place, it's just not crisp of a read enough to make it good for active scanning - which is why in the Expanse they use RADAR for locking missiles and trackign opponents, but utilise LADAR for observation.

Also, yes, RADARs and LADAFs are jammed the same way, minus the fact that you can just "deer & headlights" LADAR by just shining a giant flashlight at them and overloading their sensors.

RADAR works "better" than LADAR in space for the purpose of "thoroughly scanning", as LADAR works by observation, not probing for information. There is a reason we use radiotelescopes and not giant spyglasses in space and it's not for the obvious one. RADAR works by Radiowaves, which bounce OFF of an object and  radiowaves are weaker than extremely low infrared, so, if you were to scan a suspicious object and the RADAR brought back a higher signature than what LADAR observed, it means something ain't right with that space rock. And since any radiowave above 300 Ghz is a microwave, means that RADARs can be used to really narrow down an object in space if it's not shaped to deflect the radiowavs. The catch with RADAR? It has half the range of a LADAR (for videogame purposes), so we can emulate the "ping pong" nature of RADAR signals.

Also, the materials you speak of are referred to as RAM (radiation absorbing materials) and yes, they should be hard to get, or at least, require high -end research to be accessed for manufacturing. No stealth tech should come cheap.

 

 

Cheers.

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4 hours ago, Ravenskysong said:

I really like the post with all the stealth options. it would be neat to have choices. have a brittle, weak ship with stealth that is really hard to detect. have a large ship that can't be detected while you are standing still, but the moment it moves it can be scanned. different mixes with different parts and requirements 

That's the point of stealth, mitigating detection. not making you invisible.

My opinion at least, but Harry Potter Cloaks are just lame stealth and a byproduct of Cold War fear of submarines - remember, Klingons were Star Trek's Soviets when introduced.

So yeah, I want to see skill in ship-making and ship handling when it comes to sleath, not just a "Harry Potter Industries stealth" button.

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@CaptainTwerkmotor The idea of LADAR "is" Radiowave-Radar. They are the same-thing, you transmit wavelengths of light to map the surroundings digitally. Radiowaves are just one of frequencies of light (there are many, including x-rays, etc).

Yeah, I wanted to see LADARs, and one related to "Sound" as well(I call this "pulse-radar"). Sonars use Sound(it's the same as land-based-Pulse-Radar) but just in different Frequencies. 

 

LADAR =

advantage: better Range than Pulse-Radar

disadvantage: more interference

 

Pulse(Sound)-Radar =

advantage: less interference 

disadvantage: less Range than LADARs

 

So 2 forms of Waves; one is Light, and one is Sound. Just give us variety of Frequencies for these Waves.

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8 hours ago, Eternal said:

@CaptainTwerkmotor The idea of LADAR "is" Radiowave-Radar. They are the same-thing, you transmit wavelengths of light to map the surroundings digitally. Radiowaves are just one of frequencies of light (there are many, including x-rays, etc).

Yeah, I wanted to see LADARs, and one related to "Sound" as well(I call this "pulse-radar"). Sonars use Sound(it's the same as land-based-Pulse-Radar) but just in different Frequencies. 

 

LADAR =

advantage: better Range than Pulse-Radar

disadvantage: more interference

 

Pulse(Sound)-Radar =

advantage: less interference 

disadvantage: less Range than LADARs

 

So 2 forms of Waves; one is Light, and one is Sound. Just give us variety of Frequencies for these Waves.

RADAR and LADAR do not serve the same purpose. One's wavelengths behve different that the other's. 

Lasers are good for scanning things in (relative) proximity, like a satellite from orbit, not trying to find a 100 meters object 1 AU away. The LADAR yo uspeak of is for guiding things on a planet, the way you speak of it, like on missiles or self-driven cars to map the road ahead of them.

In space, heat emissions are like an explosion that a LADAR can pick without having to bounce a laser beam back from it. You know, cause it's the vacuum of space, nothign to hinder the information of the heat emission.

RADAR on the other hand works by boucnign a heavier wavelength off of a target and comparing data that the LADAR picked up, if the data do not match. If the LADAR shows the object has a 20 meter signature radius but the RADAR (which is wider frequency and thus more easily deflected) shows the hboejct is actually 150 meters in signature, then you know "oh shit, it's probably a stealth ship running at minimum emissions to suppress their heat signature and pass unnoticed".

I don't say you are wrong on LADAR and how it works, but it's how it works for satellites and guidance systems, not actual probing for distance objects. Wich is why radiotelescopes are used to begin with (like the huge ass telescope in China), they can read ifnromation a LADAR would never be able to pick up due to its frequency - problem is, RADAR arrays need to be big, the bigger they are, the better they resolute images.

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I'm not sure yet what stealth mechanics should be, as I'm just getting into DU. But I do think stealth tech needs to be invented or rediscovered tech via PLAYERS, not simply "given" by NQ.

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On 10/6/2017 at 9:05 PM, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

I think NQ can move away from EVE's lame cloaking model. Don't get me wrong, proud Stratios flyboy here, bt I would love to see actual stealth, not harry potter magic or "Romulan" stealth.

 

 

EVE cloaking is hardly magic.. It's an upper level subspace movement mechanic. This makes the ship basically phase out of 'regular space' without causing a warp tunnel. The physics are well documented and explained in several publications and was actually brought up again during today's Max Singularity presentation at EVE Vegas.. look it up!

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

EVE cloaking is hardly magic.. It's an upper level subspace movement mechanic. This makes the ship basically phase out of 'regular space' without causing a warp tunnel. The physics are well documented and explained in several publications and was actually brought up again during today's Max Singularity presentation at EVE Vegas.. look it up!

It's a ripoff from a show where bridges shake on impact. Yes, Romulan stealth tech + shakey ship bridges in space. Wanna let me know of how documented ship bridge shaking is in space?

 

The reason EVE's stealth fields are magical is the PEG. Would you like to explain how it's documented PEGs from EVE are a legit scientifc theorem - wihch violates the conservation of energy six ways to Sunday. Cause DU has no PEGs to sustain warp after warp after warp after warp after warp after warp while cloaked in "subspace wibbly wobbly".

Do not confuse what's possible with what's plausible. DU has fuel, EVE has not. Stealth like in the Expanse is how actual stealth in space would work, by confusing enemy sensors into picking up an enemy vessel as something else. EVE's stealth is just caterign to people who speak Klingon as their first language, who think bridges shake on impact in space.

A ship may be made out of Unobtanium-1337 alloys and be coated in paint that absorbs radiation instead of deflecting it, while having heatsinks that reduce the heat distribution of the ship to make it appear far smaller on scanners. Then since Unobtanium-1337 is light as a feather and harder than steel - call it Mithril if you will - it can confuse enemy sensors to thinking the ship they piicked up is actually way smaller than it would be. But boy, RADARs pick up the actual size of the ship - or not, cause it has paint on it that absorbs radiatio nfrom RADAR, thus showing a smaller signature on their scanners. 

This is interesting and takes effrot when stealthing, as well as driving ship building as an economy. Stealth fields just beg to be a monopoly.

Just imagine guys like Baltek and how they would make DU's baiting game into an art form with such mechanics. EVE's cloaking fields are as lame as "rogue stealth" from WoW - same exact magical powers of invisibility.

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21 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

The reason EVE's stealth fields are magical is the PEG. Would you like to explain how it's documented PEGs from EVE are a legit scientifc theorem - wihch violates the conservation of energy six ways to Sunday. Cause DU has no PEGs to sustain warp after warp after warp after warp after warp after warp while cloaked in "subspace wibbly wobbly".

Agree that EVE approach should not work here, as in EVE there is a different physics involved (and by the way explanations on how it work appeared only recently compared to when such mechanics was introduced in game). 

In EVE cloak is a state between normal and warp subspace, depending on which module you use - common one or cover ops, you put your ship on the very surface of 'energy' subspace or closer to warp subspace (that allows enter warp without decloaking). 

 

For DU if cloaking would ever appear - I would like to see it as a state resistant to scanning/radar electronic of other players. So you can see the ship only on visual/physical contact. Also from my point of view your construct should be able to enter such state only if it is not moving at all and not in aggression. I don't like idea of invisible fleets that appear from nowhere.

 

Or the other mechanics that may work - you have a module for your base or capital ship that works as a buble, everything within it cannot be scanned from outside, until you cross buble border. Buble itself should be visible for scanners as some disruption area, so you know smth is around, but you don't know what exactly. 

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13 minutes ago, Miamato said:

Agree that EVE approach should not work here, as in EVE there is a different physics involved (and by the way explanations on how it work appeared only recently compared to when such mechanics was introduced in game). 

In EVE cloak is a state between normal and warp subspace, depending on which module you use - common one or cover ops, you put your ship on the very surface of 'energy' subspace or closer to warp subspace (that allows enter warp without decloaking). 

 

For DU if cloaking would ever appear - I would like to see it as a state resistant to scanning/radar electronic of other players. So you can see the ship only on visual/physical contact. Also from my point of view your construct should be able to enter such state only if it is not moving at all and not in aggression. I don't like idea of invisible fleets that appear from nowhere.

 

Or the other mechanics that may work - you have a module for your base or capital ship that works as a buble, everything within it cannot be scanned from outside, until you cross buble border. Buble itself should be visible for scanners as some disruption area, so you know smth is around, but you don't know what exactly. 

True, on my original reply on this thread, I did say a cloaking module as in Planetside 2's Sundered cloak module could work in DU, but only for aa stationary object and very VERY apparent when near it. Howver, the Planetside 2 module makes ANYTHING friendly invisible, you can't even clearly see your allies.

Problem with that, is the renderer in-game. If the ship goes invisible, it will have to go FULLY invisible, which means people in the ship won't be able to see stuff :P.

Unless NQ's planning to add some inverted texture that makes the "bubbke" around a ship that makes the bubble surface be like a wibbly wobbly mirror or just a texture which does not renders constructs or players or a two path renderer - which can be hacked and negate the cloak to begin with. 

However, a cloaking module for a base is quite frankly, programming-wise, impossible to implement, cause it would have to depict the ground as if never edited, while cloaking your base. So, cloaking is quite  frankyl not very developer friendly when walking inside ships exists.

Let's be honest here, if Chrits "The Feature Creep" Roberts opted for no such thing for Star Citizen, you know it's not feasible for rendering of such a thing.

And SC does go for the kind of stealth I spoke of here, albeit much more contrived than free flowing.

 

As of EVE's explanation, it could be the Force, Lord Voldemort or any other fantastical superbeing that procures the cloaking field,  EVE is stilla fantasy game disguised as a Sci-Fi Space game.

Amarr = Battlemages
Caldari = Elves

Blood Raiders = Vampires
Gurristas = the weird viper fetish trope in high fantasy novels
Capsuleers = spirites
Ships = vessels or bodies the spirits posses.

See, EVE is just Hardcore WoW. It HAS to have rogues become invisible.

Personally, even for AvA combat, i'd like EVE's recon ship idea more over the Claoking module thing, of making you when wearing the armor impossible to D-Scan and having infiltration suits that behave like interceptors (or strategic cruisers, price difference included) in regards to RDMS. That'd be the definition of Black Ops, using an armor to infiltrate an enemy base and steal something - or bring something, like, a bomb on their main fuel supply. And let's be honest, the enemy will have the home advantage, so they will be using much more powerful armors than you wearing a silly light armor with minimum dps potential as of gun size, so it'ss a balanced system.

EVE's Black Ops ships could be called "ninja rogue assassin cliche" ships. My Stratios for exmaple is nothing but the Nightblade class of Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion.

So, all in all, we could do with some other as an idea than Harry Potter's Cloak of Magical Invisibility. It's both not feasible to make the outside invisible, while the inside is visible, as well as such a system is easily hacked, while ship statistics (which are saved on the server) are not possible to be hacked into and altered to negate a ship's cloaking, so, havinga 4-way signature on a ship and 4-way detection, makes it more of a challenge and more blanced.

Remember, in EVE, the "cloaking" module, server-side, just removes you from the overview, it does not actually make you invisible, if someone was to hack their client to make the "cloaking" of a ship (transparency) actually make the ship into a super luminous object, they would be easily able to see you - howver, that's against the TOS and EVE's developers are known to hammer down on such things.

P.S. : If someone in a wormhole just "happens" to burn RIGHT TOWARDS YOU at full speed when cloaked, they got a hacked client and they can see you bright as a Titan's explosion. 

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2 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Problem with that, is the renderer in-game. If the ship goes invisible, it will have to go FULLY invisible, which means people in the ship won't be able to see stuff :P.

I'm against physical invisibility at all, as for me it makes no sense. You found good example about recon ships that are not available for d-scan in EVE. That is almost what I mean for all the suggestions from post above - I was talking only about visibility for any types of scanners, but not direct visual contact. 

 

Also it would be cool to have countermeasures for such systems, for example some EMP rocket, that can be sent into such 'scanning anomaly', when it explodes - cloaking systems go offline for some period or until manual reactivation with delay and your can scan what was inside those anomaly. Probably there should be natural places where scanning works worse, and this may be logical inside some gas clouds, near some active stars. etc. 

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18 minutes ago, Miamato said:

I'm against physical invisibility at all, as for me it makes no sense. You found good example about recon ships that are not available for d-scan in EVE. That is almost what I mean for all the suggestions from post above - I was talking only about visibility for any types of scanners, but not direct visual contact. 

 

Also it would be cool to have countermeasures for such systems, for example some EMP rocket, that can be sent into such 'scanning anomaly', when it explodes - cloaking systems go offline for some period or until manual reactivation with delay and your can scan what was inside those anomaly. Probably there should be natural places where scanning works worse, and this may be logical inside some gas clouds, near some active stars. etc. 

I believe the counter-measure is the system I hope NQ adds are there.

You want to have a ship that looks like a space rock on scanners? It has to be small, lightweight and not very tanky.

Then it's where player experience comes in. IF you go with your "space-rock" ship in the middle of space, without any other rocks to explain you being there, yo uwill dra attention. But if you "stick to the wall" so to speak, you will be impossible to tell apart.

"Nothing on the scanners Joe, just rocks, one is 30 meters, one is 25 meters and one is 32 meters in signature radius"

Also, remember, visual camouflage can work in space. Space is vast and a black ship, without any engines going, can be quite frankly impossible to see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack

This is Vantablack, a color only produced by carbon nanotubes. This is the kind of stealth material for space.

1. It is lightweight and durable - Gravitometry won't pick it up
2. It's not metallic - magnetometry won't pick it up
3. It's able to absorb 99.9965% of the EM spectrum (that's Radar absorbant).

A craft made out of such a thing (Graphene) with heat-sinks and gliding through space (engines off) would be like a prestine diamond through an X-Ray machine - totally invisible. Its limit on stealth? Its heat sinks. It can absrorb heat, but that has limits as well, hence the heat sinks are its "cloaking timer". Think MAss Effect's Normandy and how it does stealth. Similar concept.

However, if the graphene ship was to stand between an observerer and the sun  - or look up in the daytime sky - they would see a blacker than black ship flying overhead.

This is the kind of stealth I speak of :P.

 

Sure the Graphene ship is durable, lightweight and pretty much impossible to see, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT...

 

...graphene takes time to be produced, making a 1 carbon atom string is not something a machine can produce, without riskign short circuiting - especially for the quantities of even the smallest of frigates. Graphene is very absorbant on EM spectrum, cause it is also VERY VERY VERY conductive. Howver, even the smallest of damage done to it can lead to it shattering with ease - its carbon nanotube is 1 atom thick. That can be emulated in DU as Graphne being very capable at abosrbing heat and EM but VERY fregile against impacts from kinetic projectiles. But hey, all them heat sinks could dump said heat as energy and power some really spiffy boosters on that ship, so hey, you get to play as the ninja ship.

See, this is the kind of balance I want to see. Not arbitrary numbers and nerf levers going up and down on cloaking modules, but actual thinking process involved when scouting.

Oh, you want a ship that's invisible like a diamond in an X-Ray machine? It will cost you - as a ship like that should cost cause of the power it prosseses. 

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3 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

The reason EVE's stealth fields are magical is the PEG. Would you like to explain how it's documented PEGs from EVE are a legit scientifc theorem - wihch violates the conservation of energy six ways to Sunday. Cause DU has no PEGs to sustain warp after warp after warp after warp after warp after warp while cloaked in "subspace wibbly wobbly".

 

EVE is set 23K years in the future.. You know what was discovered in that cluster at that time? Rule 1, do not apply ancient earth science to EVE time. Who knows what we'll find in DU.. And don't tell me you have the dynamic core figured out.. Might have PEG like tech inside..

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9 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

EVE is set 23K years in the future.. You know what was discovered in that cluster at that time? Rule 1, do not apply ancient earth science to EVE time. Who knows what we'll find in DU.. And don't tell me you have the dynamic core figured out.. Might have PEG like tech inside..

If you are referring to EVE lore, then during those 23k years humanity developed almost from scratch. PEG system itself was not developed at all by humanity, it was just found on planet surfaces, people just figured out some of its features.

I believe for now DU will be going live without any alien tech, or at least I didn't find any official info about it. So at least at the beginning we can rely only on human technologies.

The big difference is also that EVE story had no 'crio-state', so it was continuous years of development and inventions just build civilizations and try to play with PEGs. In DU all time spent for traveling there were no scientific discoveries, so technologies would be the same as people had in ~2500 year when they left the Earth. 

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17 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

EVE is set 23K years in the future.. You know what was discovered in that cluster at that time? Rule 1, do not apply ancient earth science to EVE time. Who knows what we'll find in DU.. And don't tell me you have the dynamic core figured out.. Might have PEG like tech inside..

Rule 1 : Conservation of Energy - it's universal, does not matter when. A black hole will be a compressed point beyond its Schwarzschild radius 23000 years from now, as it is today. You can't apply video game lore explanations. Cause I can say "in Captain America there is Vibranium, so I want a Vibranium made ship. Also, there is the Force. What do you mean there is no Force? Do not apply modern day gibberish to my knowledge of what happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away! Also, in WoW spaceships are powered by the Holy Light, now I know what you may say "there is no such thing as a higher divine being", but you don't know what will be discovered one day, so I want to have angelic wings, armor looking like a rave glowstick and the Ashbringer. What do you mean Undead and walking skeletons are not possible?! You don't know how advanced the Occult can be 23K years from now! NQ could even have Alastair Crowley be the bad guy in DU!!!111".

PEG is just like that, it's like saying "oh, my mage regeneratess mana cause they got a connection to the Twisting Nether and Malygos' ley-lines". Yes, EVE is a fantasy game with a sci-fi skin. Deal with it. There is no such thing as PEG. You can't put in a generator 1 joule and then have that one come out as 5000. And no, those EM-Drives you may have heard being regurgitated as "the way EVE ships fly", they don't work, same reason, conservation of energy. 

 

Rule 2 : Fuel is a thing. It's in every single video they made lately, and on every interview JC given when asked on fuel. Do not apply expectations from EVE.

 

Anchoring can be achieved in more ways than "PEG", quantum locking just takes energy after all. However, actual warp bubbles take tremendous amounts of energy, and can't be kept up unless you got magical devices - like a PEG.

So, you just don't like facts? Cool, I guess not everyone in Providence are reasonable folk.

Cheers.

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4 minutes ago, Miamato said:

If you are referring to EVE lore, then during those 23k years humanity developed almost from scratch. PEG system itself was not developed at all by humanity, it was just found on planet surfaces, people just figured out some of its features.

I believe for now DU will be going live without any alien tech, or at least I didn't find any official info about it. So at least at the beginning we can rely only on human technologies.

The big difference is also that EVE story had no 'crio-state', so it was continuous years of development and inventions just build civilizations and try to play with PEGs. In DU all time spent for traveling there were no scientific discoveries, so technologies would be the same as people had in ~2500 year when they left the Earth. 

There have been insinuations that the AI was left to do research while the people in the Arkships slept in cryopods, which woudl explain a "10 days to unlock Tier 2 Boosters" in the skill training system, as it would take a lot of "Catching-up" to do with that subject.

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Just now, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

There have been insinuations that the AI was left to do research while the people in the Arkships slept in cryopods, which woudl explain a "10 days to unlock Tier 2 Boosters" in the skill training system, as it would take a lot of "Catching-up" to do with that subject.

Wasn't the AI supposed just to watch over people that are in cryopods? I thought explanation for time needed for 'remembering' skills is not about some researches made by AI but about side effect of being frozen and time needed to recover memories after amnesia. This is said in Lore topic. 

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