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Mazillus

Ship Shield Mechanics

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After doing a search I wasn't able to find many discussions on shields other than 'twerks' long thought out post in regards to shield mathematics.

 

Something I wanted to suggest is a mechanic that was used in Star Trek Online.

 

Now I didn't care much for that game I thought it sucked really bad.

 

But one thing I thought they did really well was the way your shields took damage based on which part of the shield was taking damage, allowing you to reduce power from aft to front or rotate your ship.

 

This allowed for some really interesting combat and tactics.

 

Naturally, on larger ships, you are going to need someone dedicated to looking after shields.

 

sto12.jpg

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I don't think shield mechanics are really even on the horizon yet, at least I haven't heard anything about them. All the more reason to talk about them now I guess, right?

 

The issue between the DU and STO here is that the ships in Star Trek are models with a set "front", "top", etc., whereas in Dual Universe the ships can be any shape with any orientation. I could make a ship shaped like a banana, with a cross coming out the side and three cockpits. Where would you put the shield "zones" then?

 

One way I suppose would be to have shield bubbles that you put on the ship to protect, each bubble operating the way you described from STO, but I can already think of ways to abuse that. 

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One way to solve this would be one shield bubble, parted into hexes and you can assign up to 4 zones to those hexes. Limitations would be that all hexes have to be assigned to a zone. 

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53 minutes ago, SimonVolcanov said:

One way to solve this would be one shield bubble, parted into hexes and you can assign up to 4 zones to those hexes. Limitations would be that all hexes have to be assigned to a zone. 

 

It would have to be at least 6. I don't know much about Star Trek Online, but lots of games simplify space combat by orientating everything with a fixed up and down. Dual Universe is a sandbox with a full 3D environment, so you'd need at least 6 "zones", one for each direction of a 3D axis.

 

But again, ships in DU can be any shape. What happens when I make my ship a perfect cylinder, 2 meters in diameter and 100 meters long. Does it still get a spherical bubble shield? If so, that is an enormous area of shielded empty space; essentially a full empty sphere, 100 meters in diameter, with a line going through it. 

 

And if not, how does it work? Does it get a cylindrical shield that is present a small distance away from it's body along it's entire surface area? If that's the case, how do you define shield zones for that?

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Alright, yeah, 6 zones. The shield as a "second skin" would be actually good, as I see it. And ya can still put my original zone idea on it. 4 equally split along the long side, 2 on the short sides. If it's not zoned, a basic energy-based shield system (you hit it anywhere, shield energy goes down) could be implemented temporarily until a better solution is found.

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imo shields should just be another health bar your ship has that prevents the parts from taking damage until it gets taken out. It could be something that isn't inherent to each ship, but would require you to have a "shield module" on the ship for it to have a shield.

 

Alternatively you could have directional shield generators that only protect your ship from taking damage from a certain direction; that could get pretty interesting strategy-wise. I'm assuming with the way combat has been described to work, they'll already be doing checks to see "If you're facing the enemy/target" or "If the enemy/target is behind you" so a directional shield wouldn't be too hard to add to the game.

 

I like the Hex shielding you're talking about but I think the directional shielding would be much easier for the developers to make, and easier for new players to understand.

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Not sure if the system can distinguish between different sides since it's only hit chances and calculations based on skills, vectors, cross sections and so on

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On 15/08/2017 at 2:22 AM, ATMLVE said:

I don't think shield mechanics are really even on the horizon yet, at least I haven't heard anything about them. All the more reason to talk about them now I guess, right?

 

The issue between the DU and STO here is that the ships in Star Trek are models with a set "front", "top", etc., whereas in Dual Universe the ships can be any shape with any orientation. I could make a ship shaped like a banana, with a cross coming out the side and three cockpits. Where would you put the shield "zones" then?

 

One way I suppose would be to have shield bubbles that you put on the ship to protect, each bubble operating the way you described from STO, but I can already think of ways to abuse that. 

 

You make a good point but I'd say the shield element should work in the same way manoeuvring thrusters work to tell the game how your ship is orientated. Shield element would have an arrow that dictates the front of the ship. 

 

I also agree with the above posts in regards to the second skin nature of a shield rather than a bubble since realistically bubble style shields are potentially shielding empty space which is a waste of energy.  The second skin nature would extend only a few feet or so from the hull. Some nice visual effects when the shield is hit, charging, polarised, boosted. etc.  

 

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23 hours ago, Lethys said:

Not sure if the system can distinguish between different sides since it's only hit chances and calculations based on skills, vectors, cross sections and so on

They definitely can, unless they're going to let us use front-mounted guns to shoot at ships behind us XD

 

These are going to be ships with guns placed where the players put them, not EVE Online ships where 1 gun module = 2 guns, one on each side of the ship so the orientation of the ship doesn't matter.

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3 hours ago, Vellnn said:

They definitely can, unless they're going to let us use front-mounted guns to shoot at ships behind us XD

 

These are going to be ships with guns placed where the players put them, not EVE Online ships where 1 gun module = 2 guns, one on each side of the ship so the orientation of the ship doesn't matter.

 

As I implied (vectors), the attacking ship needs to see the ship with the gun, but as defender it's another story - I have no clue if that's planned or even possible, but I certainly hope so

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I'm a fan of the bubble generator.

 

Different sized generators for different sized bubbles. 


And overlapping bubbles.  I don't have a problem with that, as long as they create enough of a power drain as to require a huge mass of a power plant.

 

A good ship builder will maximize the tools he's given.

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I approve of the idea of the second skin nature of the shield, I'm curious how shield technology will be implemented in the game.

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I asked about shield mechanics in the DU Explorers interview last year:

 

Quote

(1:13:00) Are we going to have working shields systems? Will they be modular-based or a single construct?


What do you mean by modular based?


(Interviewer) Something where you have multiple different elements that project the shields at varying degrees.


The idea for the moment is that you have the shield unit that is going to create the shield around your ship.  We don’t have more thought at the moment than that.  What you mean is that you would need to have multiple shields units to certain different areas before it becomes active?


(Interviewer) I think what this question is about, like in star trek when they can say things like power to the forward shields or?


Ah, I see, well, we have not thought on that.  I think the first iteration of this feature will be global shield but that’s interesting, we could think about… I don’t know.  We… okay this is a typical example of a feature we did not think about, but its interesting.

3


https://youtu.be/H9Y0YmqGYDM?t=4379 




 

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20 hours ago, Lethys said:

 

As I implied (vectors), the attacking ship needs to see the ship with the gun, but as defender it's another story - I have no clue if that's planned or even possible, but I certainly hope so

It's the same math, how would it not be possible?

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On 8/14/2017 at 11:11 PM, ATMLVE said:

 

It would have to be at least 6. I don't know much about Star Trek Online, but lots of games simplify space combat by orientating everything with a fixed up and down. Dual Universe is a sandbox with a full 3D environment, so you'd need at least 6 "zones", one for each direction of a 3D axis.

 

But again, ships in DU can be any shape. What happens when I make my ship a perfect cylinder, 2 meters in diameter and 100 meters long. Does it still get a spherical bubble shield? If so, that is an enormous area of shielded empty space; essentially a full empty sphere, 100 meters in diameter, with a line going through it. 

 

And if not, how does it work? Does it get a cylindrical shield that is present a small distance away from it's body along it's entire surface area? If that's the case, how do you define shield zones for that?


They could do it similarly to how Darkstar’s Defensive Shield mod for Space Engineers (a game where ships can be whatever) does things, where the shield’s shape morphs to fit the craft. For example, a cuboid ship would have a perfectly spherical shield, a 747-shaped ship would have a pancake-shaped shield, and a cylindrical ship’s shields would have a ovoid-sausage shape (not really sure how to describe it better than that). Then they could add in the idea of setting 6 shield zones for the entire ship.

 

I know I’m a bit late to the discussion, but this is an idea I like.

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Space engineers has a couple of really great shield mods that I think would work. Especially since we should have multiple types of shields.


Ships/static

1. As mentioned above is the “bubble shield” this protects the ship and everything in a bubble that changes size based on 6 furthest points from the center of the ship so it’s not a perfect sphere . Only has one emitter that must be open to space and limited hp. You can change bubble max/min range and strength based on power consumption as well as what can pass through it. Takes time to reconfigure Various sizes and costs and can be configured with % sliders to focus one or two types of dmg or stay equal on all types.

 

2. “Skin tight” this adds a thin layer over every element and voxel even internal with no empty space. The units stack in adding more hp per generator and can be hidden inside. Set hp/power drain per unit. Takes time to reconfigure. Various sizes and costs but immune to all dmg types equally 

 

3. “Directional round”. This is a unit must be open to space in the direction you want the shield to face. It creates a round disk of varying sizes/distances based on power and generator size and can be overlapping and face any direction the unit can face. These units can also be changed on the fly unlike the others and can be lua controlled for better power management in combat. Various sizes and costs as well as dog immunity for the best variation.

 

static only,

 

4.”immunity bubble” a giant bubble shield that not only protects the construct it is attached to but adds a “skin tight” shield to all the ships docked there. Mainly used for large markets to prevent fights or at main base. Prevents weapons fire from inside of its range and requires massive power.  Limit 1 per large construct. Power and hp are not changeable but has a higher regeneration to compensate.  Also very costly.

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Here's an idea for eco friendly, self regenerating shields.

Pardons to anyone who has presented this idea already.

 

Shields vs Light weapons

     Over Powered solar panels that absorb energy from lasers and other energy field weapons and store that energy in highly efficient OP high density capacitors

 

Shields vs Kinetic weapons

     Laser umbrella. Redirect the stored energy from the solar shields to a powerful laser beam aimed at the point of a highly polished reflective cone. The laser beam is spread out like water coming      out of an overhead sprinkler system. The laser disintegrates projectiles before the skin of the ship is damaged.

     To account for the shield hole on the butt of the shield umbrella, allow the center of the laser beam to travel through a hole at the tip of the cone and radiate out of the butt of the cone in a diffused wide coned field or a focused offensive cannon.

 

Should the shields need recharging, the ship could be flown close to or into a star.

Should the capacitors become over charged, the energy would be released through all the kinetic shield umbrellas and laser cannons simultaneously.

Under a microscope, the skin of your ship would look like the surface of the coronavirus.

 

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