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Anaximander

Armor Tech-Level Suggestion.

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Tech-1 Armors.

Light Armor Tech-1 : Normal, run of the mill. general issue armor for combat. High mobility, mediocre protection, its strength is in its weight, allowign for jetpacks to be used to a greater extend for going around. Can equip up to a certain size of weaponry on its hoslters.


Medium Armor Tech-1 : Medium, above average armor, meant for solo AND group PvP. It can do use a jetpack, albeit more in the sense of a jump-booster, than an actual jetpack, but it can get the job done. Medium protection, its strength is its diversability on equipment you can attach. Can equip slightly bigger size guns on its holsters and can compensate for their weight.


Heavy Armor Tech-1 : Do you like guns?  Really BIG guns? Heavy Armor al lthe way. If you like feeling like a brick wall while spreaying a lead mine operation i nthe general direction of your opponents, then the Heavy Armor is for you.  It can equip - all sorts of guns, no restrictions or penalties. Just... don't expect to be jump-packing. That thing is heavy enough to make you hard to run in it, let alone use a jet-pack.


Tech-2 Armors 


Specialised equipment available and role bonuses tied to each armor. Commander, Sharpshooter, Assault, Support. Slightly better stats for each armor.

It should be noted, these are not "better" armors, they are specialised armors. If you  buy a "rally" variant of a car, you are not a Dakar Rally driver. And you probably paid for something you can't use efficiently.


Tech-3 Armor.

Powered variants. Armors that are way expensive and meant for people who know what they are doing. They take extra power cells to operate and are prone to being easily neutralised (EMP , E-War. etcetera). These armors are meant for "elite PvPers", not weekend warriors who just join up a massive group and go out to kick shins with others. 


Powered Light Armor : Acceleration Suit, reducing your stamina consumption on sprinting, jumping or jet-packing. The armor's powered nature provides the user with the ability to equip heavier weaponries without penatlies to accuracy amd / or mobility. Protection remains the same, it's still a light armor.

Powered Medium Armor : Modular Armor : Able to be customised to a great degree, the Modular Armor can produce a unique armor, for a unique playstyle, for the common man who likes to have options in 1vs1 PvP and or in group combat.

Powered Heavy Armor : Heavy Assault Armor : You need more? You are a bipedal anti-vehicle, anti-personel, anti-death lumbering hulk. Cumbersome, sure, don't even bother running to be honest. Just shoot things until they don't move or resemble a pile of ash.



I will be expecting the stream of comments on how terrible and unfair this is by people who don't understand how the economy works.

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I'd add personal shields too. Armor is a way to passively mitigate incoming damage. A shield is something you can set on and off (active mitigation): while it is on it consumes energy and more to regenerates itself when it takes damage. Energy is shared between all your tools and weapons, so in a fight you have to decide dinamically where to put the energy, depending on the situation. Armor gives sustain, shield gives "burst absorbtion".

 

If we consider the shield generator to be heavy, we end up with:

 

-light armor + shield generator : high mobility, low HP sustain (attackers)

-medium armor + shield generator : medium mobility, medium HP sustain (versatile)

-heavy armor + shield generator : low mobility, high HP sustain (defenders)

 

-light armor, medium armor and heavy armor with no shield generator : even lower sustain and without counters against burst attacks, can spend all the energy on weapons or tools.

 

A shield generator is just one of many tools, that gives something in exchange for something else, so it's always balanced and situational. 

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I'd add personal shields too. Armor is a way to passively mitigate incoming damage. A shield is something you can set on and off (active mitigation): while it is on it consumes energy and more to regenerates itself when it takes damage. Energy is shared between all your tools and weapons, so in a fight you have to decide dinamically where to put the energy, depending on the situation. Armor gives sustain, shield gives "burst absorbtion".

 

If we consider the shield generator to be heavy, we end up with:

 

-light armor + shield generator : high mobility, low HP sustain (attackers)

-medium armor + shield generator : medium mobility, medium HP sustain (versatile)

-heavy armor + shield generator : low mobility, high HP sustain (defenders)

 

-light armor, medium armor and heavy armor with no shield generator : even lower sustain and without counters against burst attacks, can spend all the energy on weapons or tools.

 

A shield generator is just one of many tools, that gives something in exchange for something else, so it's always balanced and situational. 

Thing is, actual shields are not that effective against everytihng. Lasers would deplete shields very easiyl, while armor can be made to tolerate heat - which is what laser is in the end.

 

i.e. you can have a nanoweave armor, it's gonna be very durable against any kinetic or thermal damage, very lightwegiht but it attracts electricity liek a sponge, so you don't really want that agaisnt laser.

 

It's a sitaution of "dress for the occasion".

 

Also, I asked NQ if the Jet-packs are part of the main armor due to the palyer customsiation video and they alluded to it being a non standard piece of the armo, so yeah, you COULD make a light assault armor that has no jet-pack and switch it with  shield genreator or something.

 

EVE illustrates this with certain ship cultures. The caldari have very slow, long range ship that rely on shields, but their armor is very little. They are manevyuverable, but not fast either, as all energy is focused on shields. While the Amarr have a lot of armor ,but no shield tanking priority.

 

It comes down to playstyle after a point, with medium armors being the "grey zone" for people to experiment freely. simialr to how in EVE people use crusiers ( a medium between frigates and battleships) to experiment with wild ship fittings.

 

 

It's also important to point out, shields take energy to charge, armor is just heavy. Shields may provide more "speed" in the long run, but they will drain your battery faster as swell every time they rrecharge :P

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ye, shields have cons, that's why they can be balanced and added into the game, it's a situational tool like any other. 

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I also was thinking T2 armours are lighter in general since they use special (non-powered) metamaterials and other very advanced fabrics or whatever like carbon nanotubes.  

 

I also was thinking utility armour, which doesn't have much protection but gives you the ability to do more stuff like having more then one mounted equipment(so both shield and jetpack) or turning the armour fabric into a battery(something that you usually don't get until you get power armour).

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I also was thinking T2 armours are lighter in general since they use special (non-powered) metamaterials and other very advanced fabrics or whatever like carbon nanotubes.  

I think at the starting tech level, this is pretty standard stuff (we have nanobots that build the materials, it would be easy to make). Think of those materials being baseline, rather than T2

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I also was thinking T2 armours are lighter in general since they use special (non-powered) metamaterials and other very advanced fabrics or whatever like carbon nanotubes.  

 

I also was thinking utility armour, which doesn't have much protection but gives you the ability to do more stuff like having more then one mounted equipment(so both shield and jetpack) or turning the armour fabric into a battery(something that you usually don't get until you get power armour).

Well, this is more a combat oriented armor discussion. The problem with utility armors, is they cant't follow the "Light , Medium Heavy" traditional doctrine.

 

I.e what is "Heavy duty mining" doing that a "light duty mining" armor won't do.

ITs's that kind of ambiguity that can't fit utility armors in such a discussion.

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I will be expecting the stream of comments on how terrible and unfair this is by people who don't understand how the economy works.

 

i will bit, stop with your silly childish comments they only serve to subtract from the forum and bring all low.

Your post was good even if people agree or not, until the very end, then you had to foul it up.

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i will bit, stop with your silly childish comments they only serve to subtract from the forum and bring all low.

Your post was good even if people agree or not, until the very end, then you had to foul it up.

 

I was actually talking about someone else xD

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+1 for versatile, modular armors where players have to take into account a lot of different factors. What will you do? What's your opponent up to? What will they bring? You really need that jetpack?

All in for immersion, choices and different armor for different uses. But please balanced so that we don't end up like in eve where T1 isn't used at all (besides faction, but that's different)

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Perhaps T1 can be automatically mass-produced with little or no skills training?

Well, that's the point. They are meant to be cheap, so armies can have a G.I. armor. In EVE, many newbros are being given their disposable ships by their alliance. Same thing could happen in DU, especially if armors use things like Polymers - like kevlar. But this the problem. Light armors ,are the dirt-cheap ones. Medium armors are meant for people who want to get into small gang PvP and / or solo PvP. Heavy armors are not a smart idea for solo or small group PvP.. Their lack of speed and / or possible limited range ( believe it or not miniguns are not THAT effective at range) makes those heavy armors easy to kite around for days.

 

 

So yeah, mass produced, sure, but easily sold? No. A light armro is entry level armor, you have to train up light armor to get access to medium armor and so on. So, an alliance would be MORE keen on producing 100000 light armors, so they can have spares for soldiers, rather than producing MORE expensive medium armors.

 

In EVE at least, anything bigger than frigate, you have to buy yourself, the alliacne won't provide. Any if you have anything bigger than a battleship, you are eligible for insurance (in our case here, high-tech Power Armors). It's just a logistical thing more than anything. You can't put peopel who are builders, "artists" or traders in expensvie armro they have little training for.

 

 

As an example. a Tech-3 Destroyer in EVE, takes 19 days (real days) to train to use it. It csots about 5 times more in-game moeny to buy it off of th emarektplace and about as much to fit thigns on it (good things, not dirt cheap modules). However, it takes about 45 days (Real Days) of training, to USE said Tech-3 Destroyer properly. 

 

So, you see, it comes down to logistics and / or tactics.

 

Everything should be able to be mass produced, the real question is "does it worth it?" or "is there market for this?". And if you want my opinion as a trader , no, it's not worth it mass producing medium armors or power armors, as those things are for people who live and breathe PvP. And Power Armros will be kept within an alliance's "niche" group of production - for security reasons. Last thing you want is people knowing how many Power ARmors you got in stock and even more important WHERE.

 

Example, if you know where people build their battleships in EVE, you send after them a nice Stealth Bomber raid - Stealth Bobmers are Tech-3 Frigates, able to use Battleship sized weaponry, with the tanking ability of a frigate, more or less, Demolition Man ship. So, you blow up their industrial facility, you then blow up the loot of battleships (that drop if a place is blown up and boom, you just gued the enemy's supply of ships.

 

Yes, industiral espionage is a thing.

 

But light arrmors is a fair game for mass production as a private industrialist and not tied to a massive alliance. Everyone likes disposable armors, even an acceleratio suit - or a a STleath Bomber in eVE- they are dirt cheap, they just have a "niche", you won't actually survive longer, you are just rewarded for unlockin them. If you don't know how to play, you will still die pretty fast :P

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Good post Twerk. I like the idea a lot. It's familiar, which has the benefit of making it tried and tested. 

 

As a side note (I know you already mentioned this thread is just based on combat armor), I would love to see them add some industrial armor. For example, they could have armor that increases mining efficiency and the ability to carry ore, but that is a bit cumbersome and reduces combat effectiveness. 

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Good post Twerk. I like the idea a lot. It's familiar, which has the benefit of making it tried and tested. 

 

As a side note (I know you already mentioned this thread is just based on combat armor), I would love to see them add some industrial armor. For example, they could have armor that increases mining efficiency and the ability to carry ore, but that is a bit cumbersome and reduces combat effectiveness. 

You mean cargo loader armor? I.E. carry a giant backpack with ridiculous storage capabilities?

 

Cause that's an actual thing I am hoping for. I want miners to have mining lasers and their own "Heady duty" miner armor, but at the same time, HAVE prodtection, in the form of using said laser drill to combat raiders. Sure, it won't be meant for war, but it would be a nice way of turning miners into defenselss roles.

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One problem with Tiered armor or equipment for that matter, is that it creates a need to have top tier or you will be instakilled or top tiered equipment is to expensive and creates a deadlock where people fear losing.

 

A Twerksample could be faction war far in eve where T2 and Faction frigates by far outclassed standard T1 frigate.

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One problem with Tiered armor or equipment for that matter, is that it creates a need to have top tier or you will be instakilled or top tiered equipment is to expensive and creates a deadlock where people fear losing.

 

A Twerksample could be faction war far in eve where T2 and Faction frigates by far outclassed standard T1 frigate.

That may be right for small groups but not for larger ones. If the advantages/disadvantages were better balanced than in eve, a T1 armor could have the same usage than some power t2 extreme uber armor

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One problem with Tiered armor or equipment for that matter, is that it creates a need to have top tier or you will be instakilled or top tiered equipment is to expensive and creates a deadlock where people fear losing.

 

A Twerksample could be faction war far in eve where T2 and Faction frigates by far outclassed standard T1 frigate.

 

That's EVE though. A Vexor is a private use ship. A Vexor NAVY ISSUE is military grade hardware. In what I explained, tech-2 are specialised equipment. They can't fill a role outside their intended use.

 

Tech 2 are just niche. Tech-3 are just expensive toys. They won't make you impervious if you suck at pvp, similar to how a Tengu in EVE won't make you win automatically against a Stratios. A Tengu like a stratios, are demanding of knowledge of game mechanics to pull off good moves in PvP. But Vexor tech-1 is just a disposable ship for kass pvp, like the Caracal.

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The point is we have to be careful and not create a system where people are afraid to lose there junk while at the same time have some consequence.

While consequence must be there it must not overshadow fun.

 

T2 Niche?, like the niche where everyone is using it?

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The point is we have to be careful and not create a system where people are afraid to lose there junk while at the same time have some consequence.

While consequence must be there it must not overshadow fun.

 

T2 Niche?, like the niche where everyone is using it?

 

Have you ever been in a 300 man fleet in EVE? Nobody goes into a skirmish in fancy gear. T2 is for 10 man roams, where you need specialists (CC, Healer ' tank etc). Tanks usually have high priority CC to burn, like neutralisers or have command boosts.

 

 

The game has loss of all items on death - ala EVE. Don't wear what you can't afford to lose. Simple logic.

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have you gone past 60 seconds in super hexagon?

That's not the question though.

 

In EVE, large fleets constitute of Tech-1 ships (or frigates, in our case, Light Armors) cause they are dirt cheap. Why?

 

Cause of SRP.

 

In null-sec, player-ran coalitions offer Ship Reimbursement Programs. Tech-1s are easy to make and can be fitted excellently f yo ugot enoguh skill training - and even then, a newbro can fly them decently.

In EVE, people do that, and there  are REGENERATING resources. In DU, the ore depletion makes the use of CHEPA armors for General Issue soldiers (builders, mienr and others who come to PvP with entry level skills ) a neccessity.

 

SRPs are part of the politics and it's tied with the economy of each faction. Some go for cheap ships, hoping to destory the expensive ships the enemy has to force them out of their stock of high-tech ships, while other coalitions go for "quality" cause they are filthy rich.

 

This is not Space Empyrioneer. This is not "Tech-2 is better than Tech-1". That's Empyrion, Astroneer and Space Engineers broken system. DU, as far as economics go, it's EVE 2.0 for me -a and JC has reinforced this notion repeatedly.

 

 

Also, stupid people who think "bigger is better" or "Tech-2 > Tech-1", are also the same peopel who end up buying PLEX (DAC) with real money, cause they can't understand that "biggeer is not better" or "don't fly what you can't afford to lose".

 

Same thing will apply in DU as far as PvP and economy are concerned. If you personally don't like that idea, sorry, but it's happening like that. It's what makes EVE's economy work. If people were not to buy Tech-1 armors because "tech-2 is better durr hurr", newbros would not be able to make money at all by manufacturing.

 

I told you before, if you expect Space Empyrioneer "progression", this game is not that. The SKill Training guarantees that.

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Hi

 

I am not replying to eve references ad nausium.

 

You seem to lack voxel game references Try StarMade, From the depth or wurm online of your wrists can handle to

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Hi

 

I am not replying to eve references ad nausium.

 

You seem to lack voxel game references Try StarMade, From the depth or wurm online of your wrists can handle to

Do they got a realistic economy? No. EVE does. It's even praised by NQ for its complex economy. Part of its economy is why armies constitute of Tech-1 ships. 

 

Voxel or not, it doesn't matter, if resources are depleting, the need for a more "cheapt & effective" army rises. Just look in our history. TSten submachineguns in WW2 were made out of second or third grade material, to upset the cost of production. Those guns were terrible at shooting, but they did manage to supply the army of the Allies  The Nazi focused on high quality materials for their guns , guess what, good craftmanship takes more time than a G.I. piece of shit that can just barely do its job.

 

Same deal with Tech-1 armors. They are the "cheap and sort of efficient" , with Tech-2 being "better quality for more important people" (in the context of an army and Tech-3 are just "special operations equipment" - exactly how it is in EVE, cause EVE, unlike Astroneer, or Starmade or Empyrion, has a realistic economy :)

 

 

Cheers.

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