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Inertia Dampeners?

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If this has been covered please ignore.

 

Does anyone know if you are going to be able to come to a complete stop in Space/Atmospheres?  Like in space engineers when you turn on your inertia dampeners.

 

Drove me nuts in No Mans Sky where you always had to be moving forward or backwards.

 

**Edit/update** I should have explained a little farther, What i am wanting is when you hit a certain key, it keeps your ship from moving/drifting in any direction. In SE if you move in a direction with no gravity present, you will continue to move that direction forever until some force acts upon you. Just like would happen in real space. *****

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I hope so too, but they may implement it by using boosters instead of dampeners. Just like in real life, reverse thrust stops forward motion, and as for as in-atmosphere, you should be able to stop/hover by having vertical boolsters.

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I hope so too, but they may implement it by using boosters instead of dampeners. Just like in real life, reverse thrust stops forward motion, and as for as in-atmosphere, you should be able to stop/hover by having vertical boolsters.

 

that's how it works in space engineers, they just do it automatically when dampers are enabled and they do not when they're disabled.. in SE they're not true dampeners in the sense most would think (you still go flying backwards if you jump while ship is moving forwards) 

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Ahh, I have never played Space Engineers, or EVE, or basically any other space games,(unless you count Fractured Space,) so I assumed you meant some sort of gravity-like inertia dampeners. My bad. :) 

It sure sounds like the players will have tons of creative options for building stuff, so I can't see them not including this.

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based on the one video where they build the ship, lets call it the test ship lol, id say yes it should be possible to make a full stop. I say this cause they talk about having to put on small thruster engines on to control direction and such

 

edit: I fixed something I forgot words lol

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Since its still in pre-alpha, everything is subject to change.

 

The asteroid base video does a better job of showing the current flight model.

 

I would prefer a small amount of inertia.

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Pretty sure there'll be a way, otherwise deepspace exploration (or travel to another system) would be impossible, since you'd be unable to log off or you'd lose your ship that would keep moving at a slow pace for hours.

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I think there were shown in the first crafting video, as little circles... Won't say for sure, but function was the same/similar

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Pretty sure there'll be a way, otherwise deepspace exploration (or travel to another system) would be impossible, since you'd be unable to log off or you'd lose your ship that would keep moving at a slow pace for hours.

 

I would hope that the players login position would be fixed to the construct when you log off so that you login into the same position within the construct.

 

NQ has hinted that FTL could still take days, weeks, or months to reach other systems and so the player would need to be able to logoff in transit and be able to log back into the construct later in the flight (or upon arrival).

 

I'm excited about the potential pirating, stowaway strategies this could create.  For example, I am hoping I can send a character to into a neutral or enemy construct when it is unguarded and log off if I know that ship is going to fly to another system (or mining camp).  Later, I hope to login with this character still in the ship at its new location (or with the cargo hold full of stuff I can now steal).  Of course that would always be a risky strategy.  

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If I had my way..

I wouldn't do true newtonian physics.  But I would have inertia, with a gradual deceleration if no force acted upon the object.

 

The Asteroid base building video had a ship that landed on the runway, towards the end of the video.  There was no inertia in that video, and it would have been nice to see a little. 

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I'm all in for Intertia Dumpers, but not for Inertial Dampeners. One is a mechanical achievement, linked to certain Elements that can be introduced in the game to make a ship more maneuverable, the other is a Star Trek non-sense, despite the fact Star Trek bridges shake on an impact regardless.

G-Forces thread dwelled into this as well and I stated my suggestion there. Mass of a ship + relative acceleration = Slow down effects on people due to G Forces being applied. G Forces get to much, player's avatar gets stunned for a few seconds, so it seperates good pilots from bad when it comes to skill.


If a good builder can build very pretty vitros with voxels and can be recognised by their expertise with the voxel engine, I believe a pilot should be recognised via their understanding of their ship's mass and how much they can push it before they get stunned.


Otherwise, we may have Titan class ships doing barrels rolls like they are jet fighters.

 

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but...that sounds awesome

It also makes the Thrust-to-Mass physics obsolete and I don't think NQ would implement Thrust-to-Mass physics and then allow for ships to pull a handbrake in space without any gameplay flavor to it. Which is why I hope for Inertial Dumpers. If the Russians mnaged it with Jet Fighters, I bet FutureSpace can do just fine. The Lore has Kyrium in it which can absorb Gravity (or some sci-fi magic like that, I don't speak Turbonerd :P ), so the inertial dumpers may require Kyrium and GOOD LUCK manufacturing Kyrium, it will probably cost the equivalent of a marriage and a kidney.

 

Right there, I provided Trade and Flying in PvP as viable reasons for having G-Forces in the game, they create jobs for people who want to sell Kyrium for the best ships to do the best maneuvers :P

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Should be something that's controlled by your flight software with a sensible default. Didn't put forward thruster's on your ship? good luck stopping without atmospheric drag hehehe.

 

For really long journeys you are probably going to want to have some sort of auto pilot so you can get out of you seat and do stuff in your ship while you wait.

 

As for logging off in a moving ship, I think its obvious that your position should be recorded relative to the current construct you would have too many issues with having multi crewed ships to have it any other way.

 

What I'm worried about is velocity caps, I hate games where you are limited in space to something pitiful, it feels so cheap, makes sense on a planet, you have air drag to contend with but in space I want to be able to accelerate indefinitely or at least ludicrous speeds.

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If I had my way..

I wouldn't do true newtonian physics.  But I would have inertia, with a gradual deceleration if no force acted upon the object.

 

So...you're saying that even if I am in space, with no drag and no gravity, I have to keep my engines running to move? I can't  just giving myself a good blast in the right direction and shut the engines down?

I understand why that would be good, but I also kind of like the idea of just launching myself in a particular direction and letting inertia do the rest.

 

 

I'm all in for Intertia Dumpers, but not for Inertial Dampeners. One is a mechanical achievement, linked to certain Elements that can be introduced in the game to make a ship more maneuverable, the other is a Star Trek non-sense, despite the fact Star Trek bridges shake on an impact regardless.

 

G-Forces thread dwelled into this as well and I stated my suggestion there. Mass of a ship + relative acceleration = Slow down effects on people due to G Forces being applied. G Forces get to much, player's avatar gets stunned for a few seconds, so it seperates good pilots from bad when it comes to skill.

 

 

 

Perhaps someone could explain to me the difference between Inertial Dumpers and Inertial Dampeners? I am not really familiar with how each would work (hypothetically, of course.)

I like the G-force idea though, and agree it could add a bit to piloting.

(Maybe that is​ the difference? Inertial Dampeners stop inertia for all objects including players, while Inertial Dumpers just stop the ​ship's ​inertia?)

 

One caveat to the G-forces though...if you are piloting a ship with a crew,(which most people will,) all​ of your crew would need to be the same pilot level as you are to avoid getting stunned. You might be able to handle a 7G maneuver, but if your crew can't, you could end up in real trouble!

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So...you're saying that even if I am in space, with no drag and no gravity, I have to keep my engines running to move? I can't  just giving myself a good blast in the right direction and shut the engines down?

I understand why that would be good, but I also kind of like the idea of just launching myself in a particular direction and letting inertia do the rest.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps someone could explain to me the difference between Inertial Dumpers and Inertial Dampeners? I am not really familiar with how each would work (hypothetically, of course.)

I like the G-force idea though, and agree it could add a bit to piloting.

(Maybe that is​ the difference? Inertial Dampeners stop inertia for all objects including players, while Inertial Dumpers just stop the ​ship's ​inertia?)

Inertia Dumpers = Anything that can absorb inertia and throw it off from sinking into the crew, like a liquid solution in the ship's hull that acts as a buffer for G-Forces, it has limits on its own on how much inertia you can dump into it before it starts bleeding inertia through it, it's not an end-all solution (actually considered for use by engineers)

 

Inertia Dampener = Magically nullifies Inertia altogether, violates the laws of physics in so many a way. It essentially renders inertia...well, inert. That on its own, it's kind of paradoxical, as forces would fix the ship in an immobile state, therefore being unable to move, which makes its use for high speed spacetravel quite jarring if not impractical.

 

Check the dictionary for a better definition to be honest, it's very clear :P

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Thanks Captain, that makes sense.

I did do a quick search  for "inertia dumpers" before I posted, but my search engine turned up nothing, hence the question. :) 

I do like the idea of inertia dumpers over inertia dampeners too, it makes more sense, since, as you said, it will keep the Titan ships from getting frisky! :lol: 

 

I can just imagine the added piloting that would be necessary to manage the dumpers too, you would have to watch the inertia meter, and maybe an alarm would go off if the dumper is at max capacity.

 

Let's hope they include this in the game!

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I was actually considering posting this topic. Based on what they have said in AMA's there will be realistic physics:

 

 

Dynamic constructs can move and to do so you need to apply forces to them. There is a devblog article that we’ll release soon to explain in more detail what this means, but the idea is that engines are actually pushing and that you should think about where to put them for maximum efficiency. For example, your placement will change depending on whether you intend to use them for thrust or rotation functions. Also, bigger engines will require bigger fuel tanks, which are heavier, so this will make the ship accelerate more slowly. It’s all about balancing and tradeoffs.

 

However the ship designs they have show us in videos primarily have thrusters directed aft of the ship. Realistic physics combined with this setup would require KSP-like maneuvers in that you'd have to flip your ship every time you wanted to slow down. In the gameplay video it seems the small ship slows down immediately after the pilot stops accelerating. This could be the smaller "adjustors" at work, but it doesn't seem like they should have enough thrust to slow a ship down that quickly.

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Thanks Captain, that makes sense.

I did do a quick search  for "inertia dumpers" before I posted, but my search engine turned up nothing, hence the question. :)

I do like the idea of inertia dumpers over inertia dampeners too, it makes more sense, since, as you said, it will keep the Titan ships from getting frisky! :lol:

 

I can just imagine the added piloting that would be necessary to manage the dumpers too, you would have to watch the inertia meter, and maybe an alarm would go off if the dumper is at max capacity.

 

Let's hope they include this in the game!

Well, the Inertia Dumper part has many different variations as of how it's called. It usually, in Sci-Fi, involves a liquid solution that acts as a shield for the crew. Think of it like the air in the hull of seafareing ships that keeps the floating. You pierce that layer, the ship is sinking. In the case of inertia dumpers for spaceships, you pierce the hull, crew is squashed to a pulp.

 

You can theoretically make a ship be 90% of said liquid solution and you could accelerate - if the thrust and power source exist - up to 99.9 % Speed Of Light, but then again... what is that ship even built for? >.> Intergalatic Fed-Ex, to need so much acceleration? >.>

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I was actually considering posting this topic. Based on what they have said in AMA's there will be realistic physics:

 

 

However the ship designs they have show us in videos primarily have thrusters directed aft of the ship. Realistic physics combined with this setup would require KSP-like maneuvers in that you'd have to flip your ship every time you wanted to slow down. In the gameplay video it seems the small ship slows down immediately after the pilot stops accelerating. This could be the smaller "adjustors" at work, but it doesn't seem like they should have enough thrust to slow a ship down that quickly.

If I am to make an educated guess, they have not yet implemented the physics grid in the development cycle of the game or they haven't implemented it yet due to their stage on the development cycle

 

The construction video was just to showcase how intuitive the building gameplay was - which it is, the interface is very intuitive for building, you can understand you can press 1 and you got selection of a certain voxel type or Element you want to place.

 

And yes, newtonian physics - if for some reason you didn't add directional thrusters pointed forward on your ship for deceleration - would demand you flip the ship 180 degress so it faces away from your destination and fire the thrusters to decelerate.

 

 

EDIT : Inertia Dumpers operate on the Principle of Equivalence - with a twist. Check that out for more info. The Dumpers though operate via an engineering twist, which could be ignored because it would make gameplay quite over-the-top difficult. DUAL it's a game after all :P

 

In essence, you can make 5 Gs seem like 1 G, with liquid used being proportional to the mass of a ship of a straigt acceleration, which given newtonian physics hopefully being implemented, would make sense, as the faster a ship would go in non-warp speeds, the harder it would be to wiggle left and right, as momentum is not an easy horde to rodeo.

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