Emma Roid

Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:

New player experience
If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.
Exploits
Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?
The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore. Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it. If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it. It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do. removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.
Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:
You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex? You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch. You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 
All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.
 

Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:

New player experience
If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.
Exploits
Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?
The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore. Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it. If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it. It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do. removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.
Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:
You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex? You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch. You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 
All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.
 

Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:

New player experience
If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.
Exploits
Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?
The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore. Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it. If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it. It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do. removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.
Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:
You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex? You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch. You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 
All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.
 

Although I could live with a partial wipe, I still don't see any reason for a wipe. The pros and cons given sound a bit contrived to me:

New player experience
If an MMO needs a wipe to attract new players, where are we a year later? You would need a wipe every year or so. The challenge is to make the game in such a way you can step in at any time I just did the new player experience on the test server, nice improvement. But I do not see how there being some big bases on Alioth or some rich players in space has any effect on the new players when I am setting up my base, start building and exploring. On the contrary: it gives something to explore and can be an inspiration to new builders in what is possible.
Exploits
Ok, so some players got rich using exploits. How does that effect other players?
The example I know of is the guy that bought 100 warp beacon schematics for 8mil each and was willing to sell them for 700mil. But my warp beacons (I bought the proper schematic) normally sell within two weeks and with a 1500% (15 times the production cost) margin. So it seems to have no effect at all that I can see. Ok, so they can buy more expensive guns. So what? the advantage of that is not great, and most of these cheaters don't even play anymore. Some other examples: gates have a >100% profit, advanced engines > 100%, rare engines 800%. There is no problem with rich people pushing out regular players. You can buy a Gate XL schematic with half a day of T5 astroid mining with 2 guys, you don't need exploits to be able to make it. If there is a problem with the markets, it is not because of rich players, but a lack of destruction. An element once made stays in the game forever, except in PVP and in players leaving the game. That is not a recipe for a healthy economy but exploits have nothing to do with it. It is rather naive to think there will never be an exploit again: people will find ways to cheat and exploit with every change to the game. Are you going to wipe every time that happens? Just deal with it and undo some transactions or kick some players, like other MMO's do. removing schematics will indeed resolve the market issue: there will be no market. The schematics where introduced exactly for this reason. Of course people will complain about the cost: new players are used to games where you are in the end game in 10 days and they don't want to invest time and effort for a 2 year period to build a factory (like I did). Those are exactly the players NQ should not listen too: they are on to the next game in a month anyway. You need to listen to the players that stick around and are willing to build long-term: those are your money-makers.
Partial wipe complexity
There are many ways to do partial wipes, and clean up the database. Not all of them sound complex to me:
You could let players mark up to 10 construct with a flag (like the headquarters) and then wipe the rest and reset the planets: the dynamics for planet reset and construct deletion are already there, and so is a 'tag construct' mechanism, so how is this complex? You could just remove the need for the schematics from the game and - like someone suggested in this forum - set up NPC buy orders for them. That makes refunding people real easy. And you don't need a wipe for that, could be done in a patch. You don't need to split communities if you want to start fresh and keep the current, you could make a gate/portal to a new solar system with its own currency where you can only take blueprints back and forth: that will be a bit more work I imagine, but only if you want new planets. you could also just copy this solar system and rename the current one 'legacy'. 
All-in-all it seems to me that part of the devs in NQ just want a clean database and are looking for arguments to justify a wipe.
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

As a long time regular player: a partial wipe I could live with, a full wipe not.

I would expect to at least remain blueprints, talents and schematics and preferably 'capsule constructs' (maybe without cargo and fuel). I think I am entitled to replace my factory I spend 2 years working daily in building without having to set it all up again from scratch for the 4th time (after alpha, beta pre-schematics, beta post-schematics). 

The idea to remove schematics is new to me, but if we can run factories without schematics that is ok: I did that before and with my talents I should be able to make money. There would just be more competition and a smaller market as more people will make their own stuff.

But I do expect compensation for the years of grinding money and talents together to build up my schematics set. Not sure what I would do with 30bil, but I worked hard for it, and I never used any exploits. Would not be fair if the builders get all their work saved by getting blueprints, and industrialists loose everything they worked for.

It is frustrating that this wipe discussion has been going on for so many months now. I would like a decision soon please, so that I know if I am wasting my time these months or need to go look for another game.

I would like to suggest option 5:

New solar system you can get to with a gate
 - Has its own currency 
 - Schematics are not needed there
But you can't take anything from one system to the other except blueprints.
 
Pro:
 - Long time builders keep there builds and factories
 - Money made from exploits has no influence in the new system
 - Community does not need to split: you can go back and forth between your old base and new ones
 - PVP  and planet PVP could be added there without having too much impact: for planet PVE you can stay in the current system

Con:
 - Needs some coding and (preferably) some new planets. Although a straight copy would work
 
So basically similar to option 3, but without having to split the community
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

Completely agree with this!

NQ needs to focus on scale, bugs, and polish. Settle this BS about a wipe quickly, move on, and make sure DU can actually support a release at scale.
 
I'm skeptical it can...and more skeptical the more stuff they change before release. Rip out schematics? Okay, but then you need to replace them or understand the performance implications. 
 
Have they even tested the latest version at scale? They obviously didn't went they rolled out public beta -- will they actually learn anything from the past, or repeat the same mistakes?
 
The more time they invest in changes, the less time they have to test and fix the game's performance and scalability, improve polish, and fix bugs.
 
I don't think they should wipe for that reason alone -- they don't have time. Even if only focusing on scale/bugs/polish...that'll take them months and months because they have a lot of debt built up in those departments. 

I would like to add a point of view to the discussion:
Imagine we are in 3 years from now. The server has been life all the time. There have been hardcore gamers and casual players for the whole time. There will be a big difference between the players depending on the how they have been playing the game.

Imagine you join as a new player in 3 years.
 
What will be the difference beteen the new players now and new players in 3 years?
 
What will a vipe improve in the long run? I can't imagine that you wipe the server every few years.
I think that you have to find a way to do ballancing on the run.

Yeh I wasn’t aware schematics were hated, just the implementation. 
 
If schematics go, then something else needs to replace them. Maybe talent based efficiencies to encourage people
to specialise and use the market??

As a long time regular player: a partial wipe I could live with, a full wipe not.

I would expect to at least remain blueprints, talents and schematics and preferably 'capsule constructs' (maybe without cargo and fuel). I think I am entitled to replace my factory I spend 2 years working daily in building without having to set it all up again from scratch for the 4th time (after alpha, beta pre-schematics, beta post-schematics). 

The idea to remove schematics is new to me, but if we can run factories without schematics that is ok: I did that before and with my talents I should be able to make money. There would just be more competition and a smaller market as more people will make their own stuff.

But I do expect compensation for the years of grinding money and talents together to build up my schematics set. Not sure what I would do with 30bil, but I worked hard for it, and I never used any exploits. Would not be fair if the builders get all their work saved by getting blueprints, and industrialists loose everything they worked for.

It is frustrating that this wipe discussion has been going on for so many months now. I would like a decision soon please, so that I know if I am wasting my time these months or need to go look for another game.

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

Most important PRO's missed... 
 
Hundreds of paid accounts no longer paying.  Less money for NQ
Empty worlds with no constructs... sounds fun.
Many existing players offer help to new players in financial and advice... gone.

After all the things. actually i'd just leave if there was a wipe. seriously, look at teh mega factories. The investments in the schematics. The time and faith of the community to provide content.
 
Resounding naw, Im out. Gimme monies back pls.
 
The billionaire things was fixed with athena I think and the new "way" for more schematics and rarity of plas.
 
anyway. pick right.
 

Why do they want to remove the schematics again? That is one of the only reasons why we got trading in this game <.<

I don't really understand the need for a wipe, other then that NQ would like to clean up their database. The 'Pros' listed sound contrived to me.
 
Any permanent MMO where a wipe is needed to make it attractive to new players is doomed. Are you going to wipe every year then?
The challenge of an MMO is to make the game is such a way that a player can step in at any point.
 

I agree with most people here, so I will just add to some points instead of writing everything in detail...
 
A very important question: What becomes of the thoramine? The Thoramin should not disappear under any circumstances. That there will be other ways to get to it later is okay, but the current one must not be disbanded. (Is that already discussed @NQ-Wanderer?)
 
Talent Points: These should be saved or if necessary reduced by the same percentage for all. It should not be the case that all players start with the same points. That would be more than unfair.
 
The beta was intended as a soft release and only partial wipes should take place if absolutely necessary. That was YOUR PROMISE, so if you break that promise and do a full reset, many will demand refunds. You cannot afford that financially.
 
Including blueprints from Alpha/Beta in the finished game was a promise from the beginning, so this should be fulfilled too.
 
I wonder what happened to my missing blueprints from the PreAlpha? There was the first space station built by players... 
 
So my conclusion: 
A partial wipe is possible. A full wipe is not. (Unless you want to kill DU)
 
Furthermore, I fully agree with Kurock.
 
 

Basically any form of wipe after telling us no for 2 years, and id walk away. I don't see any path of fair restitution for ripping out of my hands everything i worked for without using exploits or shady bullshit since beta start when NQ told us no further wipe. i didn't like schematics at first, but its a reasonable mechanic that i work well with for my usage/needs now and could be handled by throttling them like using industry skills. but taking away what I've built in 2 years, which with current systems would take nearly 3 years to replace. And honestly wiping to give a level playing field will only make a difference for a month at best, before the knowledgeable people are back in a position of power
 
I'm not unique in my opinion, and NQ will have to consider how many people will continue to play, or just give up and walk away because they were lied to. I backed in alpha so i haven't paid money monthly, but i would of been happy to of for all this time to aid in the games support. 

A wipe would literally solve nothing as people would just abuse the new mechanics in the same way. 
 
You are doing literally nothing but a complete flusher of an idea. 

As a long time regular player: a partial wipe I could live with, a full wipe not.

I would expect to at least remain blueprints, talents and schematics and preferably 'capsule constructs' (maybe without cargo and fuel). I think I am entitled to replace my factory I spend 2 years working daily in building without having to set it all up again from scratch for the 4th time (after alpha, beta pre-schematics, beta post-schematics). 

The idea to remove schematics is new to me, but if we can run factories without schematics that is ok: I did that before and with my talents I should be able to make money. There would just be more competition and a smaller market as more people will make their own stuff.

But I do expect compensation for the years of grinding money and talents together to build up my schematics set. Not sure what I would do with 30bil, but I worked hard for it, and I never used any exploits. Would not be fair if the builders get all their work saved by getting blueprints, and industrialists loose everything they worked for.

It is frustrating that this wipe discussion has been going on for so many months now. I would like a decision soon please, so that I know if I am wasting my time these months or need to go look for another game.