SirJohn85
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Posts posted by SirJohn85
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25 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:
Surely you broke no rules.
But you decided on promoting a faster end to this project. With no new subscriptions duo bad reviews and lack of promotion.
Where do you get these facts from (the marked one)? I would like to have an insight into this so that it can be regarded as a valid source.
Otherwise, all I read here are assertions written by a frustrated player.
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I totally forgot this existed... How ironic..
- [BOO] Sylva, Demlock, Mataluuka and 1 other
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8 hours ago, [BOO] Sylva said:
We then heard that ATOM was being paid to provide security for the event, and that was when we decided to party crash it.
Wait, what? I need to update my first post:
People are planning a battle event in the PvP zone with a Star Wars theme so that they do PvP, although it is only RP and not PvP. The whole thing is supposed to happen under the supervision of an org that is responsible for security, because they are expecting trouble, otherwise they wouldn't call in security.
Now the players complain that they were disturbed by another group because they could not do their RP battle in a PVP zone that is accessible to everyone. On top of that, they complain because BOO is providing content to ATOM, which was apparently responsible for the security? Imagine a security company suddenly having to work.
No matter what happens in this thread. The drama, the salt and the immature behaviour have at least brought some life into this joint.
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7 minutes ago, Lethys said:
Oh so you ruined someones life there too, destroying hours of looting on their part. Did you make sure that the same Person picked up his loot again? Or die you not care? Wow this is so hypocritical considering this
I couldn't have put it better. Thank you for that.
So he makes sure that someone's whole progress is destroyed by killing him just for fun. If you're really mean, you kill him again when he tries to get his own loot.
But since you can save ships as BP in DU, you end up losing what you lose in other mmorpgs or survival games: time and loot.
Congratulations joaocordeiro - you just argued yourself to the wall.
Case closed and I'm out of here. -
6 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:
The fact you hide behind "its just a game" to justify your lack of remorseful for destroying the work, dedication and love that some one invested in months of playing the game is alarming.
Sure pvp is allways destruction.
But ppl dedicated themselfs to make Starwars ships, to have fun and promote DU as creative tool.
Those ppl were expecting comments, reactions to their ships, were expecting funny stories like the T fighter took down the X wing. Not a massacre.
And you have ZERO empathy with those ppl.
There is a word for ppl that cant feel empathy.
Are you somehow new to PvP in general?
Otherwise, read the golden rules of Eve Online, a game from 2004. DU wanted to attract the Eve players according to JC.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Golden_Rules
And drawing an analogy with a homeless person to a game is somewhat... questionable.
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Hmm... After wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes, here's what I suggest: Play for the place.
It's like kindergarten or the younger years. You play on the field and suddenly a new group of children comes to claim that field. The children agree to play for the field.
So where is the declaration of war?
Here you go, I've just given you more PvP. -
So that I can summarise whether I have understood this correctly:
People are planning a battle event in the PvP zone with a Star Wars theme so that they do PvP, although it is only RP and not PvP. (However that is supposed to work. Do they miss on purpose or what is different in RP than in PvP?)
All of a sudden a band of pirates comes along who have made it their business to do PvP and get involved. Now the players complain that they were disturbed by another group because they could not do their RP battle in a PVP zone that is accessible to everyone.Please tell me this is a bad joke.
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14 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:
It's a sorry state of the game when you have to plan, schedule and invite people to a PVP event ... "Emergent gameplay" my behind.
And then for an LP that you as NQ are not allowed to show once, because in the worst case you risk a lawsuit from Disney.
The moment when you have to make an appointment with your opponent to pew pew instead of finding it in the world...
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4 minutes ago, Dimencia said:
Long quote, trimmed it out but. I understand that they have an obligation to release the game due to Kickstarter, and an obligation to vaguely include the concepts they claimed on the page. They have done so, and will continue doing so, or face legal action (of course). There is no obligation for these gamedevs to listen to non-gamedevs about how to make their game, though, just because those people paid money.
Now I do understand the feeling that, NQ is not listening to anyone's feedback, for anything, ever. Because they're totally not.
But they're not obligated to, either. They are gamedevs who assumedly have some experience in this field, those of us who are not MMO gamedevs need to extend a bit of trust. If it's frustrating for a kickstarter backer, because something is not implemented the way they wanted, as long as it is implemented, then NQ has fulfilled their obligations.
Hopping onto the kickstarter, beta, etc early doesn't make opinions about gamedev any more or less valid. New players are just as useful for getting feedback, if not significantly moreso because they don't have a lot of hangups and old grudges about things NQ has done in the past.
So yes, if we want this game to be good? Ignore the old players who are just grumpy old men (I'm one of them most of the time), bring in new players, and see how they like it. The old players in a beta are never going to be happy - an MMO is a huge investment of time and effort, and even a small change will mess something up or invalidate someone's efforts. Eventually all of the old players will be salty about something, or will get bored, and that's that, and NQ is under no obligation to do what those cranky old men want when they start wishing for the good ole days where they didn't have to buy schematics.
Any game, especially an MMO, needs a constant influx of new players to provide fresh feedback and to offset the number of players that finished or got bored with the game.
Only thing is, I'm pretty sure NQ won't listen to new players either. So, let's just hope they know what they're doing
In principle, they don't have to listen to the players - but it is somehow... Hypocritical if you offer it and don't do it in the end. This shows a lot about the company's mission statement and what I as a customer should think of this company.
Fun Fact: It is JC's first mmorpg and game. He comes from a scientific background, as he said himself several times in his videos.
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1 hour ago, Dimencia said:
How are you supposed to bring people back? They played, they got bored, they quit. They paid their subscriptions while playing, and afterward, sure you could say their money is being used to make a game for other people. But I mean, they paid for the subscription knowing it would expire.
Basically, it is not my job as a customer in the first place to have to explain to a company how they sell their products. On the other hand, I am happy when they let me participate in the process and I give my feedback and they celebrate me as a great, valued community member, because without me none of this would have been possible. (Yes, by the words "without me" this means everyone, but I am speaking for myself from a first-person perspective now.)
On the other hand, I have a problem when they reveal to me that I can give feedback, which is ignored in the end, I then play, the roadmap is changed in such a way that it no longer corresponds to the KS video, on which they have worked for 3 years and out of sudden stopped, for example (proof of this in their KS video from 2016 with timestamp: https://youtu.be/TyWZsuLmloo?t=446 ) and then quit because the feedback was not heared.
On the next point, you've got it wrong - KS people (and those who bought from the shop on the website the support packs) don't pay for a subscription for the beta. (Here their last call for the supporter packs to buy - https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/19464-last-chance-to-get-a-supporter-pack-august-17/) The players have paid a tidy sum depending on the package (besides the energy and time spent) because they believe in the product and the company that implements it. I'm pretty sure quite a few of them just put up with it, but look at the product with one eye. After all, it hasn't been "officially" released yet. To give you an idea of the sums I'm talking about - here's a quick link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949863330/dual-universe-civilization-building-sci-fi-mmorpg
The developers of Ashes of Creation and Pantheon got these points right: players give feedback on something the companies show and also implement the suggestions for improvement. NQ can take a leaf out of these role models' book when it comes to transparent communication.
1 hour ago, Dimencia said:There was no guarantee that paying means the dev team will do exactly what they want.
And here you are wrong again. After a KS campaign has ended, the original text may no longer be changed on the KS page. This is explicitly stated by KS and the creators of these crowdfunding projects must adhere to it, otherwise they could face legal action. Chronicles of Elyria has shown how not to do it. (Source to CoE and class action lawsuit: https://massivelyop.com/2020/07/07/chronicles-of-elyria-backers-have-now-hired-a-lawyer-to-file-a-class-action-suit/ )
IMPORTANT: Of course, they do NOT have to fulfil all this now, because the game is not officially released yet. But what I'm saying in the first place is that they can't just do what they want, they are bound by obligations. It's not that simple that you can write that in one sentence.
1 hour ago, Dimencia said:And I am quite sure that if the game were rolled back to prior to 0.23, it wouldn't help the player counts, because prior to 0.23 is when most people quit.
I cannot take subjective perception as generally valid objective facts. That's why I simply stick to the statement that since the 0.23 patch, the critical threads have increased significantly in this forum. That's all we can say without deviating from the facts.
1 hour ago, Dimencia said:If the industry and PVP updates weren't enough to bring them back, then what next?
0.23 was released without informing the community. The shock came as a surprise and caught many cold.
The PvP revamp update "Territorial Warfare" is still to come, which is why I think many people, including myself, are looking at what they want to change. They cannot and must not afford a second fiasco like the one with 0.23.
Please don't get me wrong. I am trying to explain what the problem is. I do realise that DU needs new players. But it must also be clear that the old players, who made the project possible in the first place, are already being driven away in the development phase, mind you. And that is a deficit that must not be allowed to continue. I know that it is not easy for either side. But the elephant in the room cannot be ignored.
Thank you for reading through carefully, should you have done so.
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Very good that you asked, see the following from ReShade's FAQ:
QuoteSome Anti-Cheat system could detect ReShade as an untrusted software. It often happens when a new ReShade version is released, waiting to be whitelisted. If so, you have to install an older version or, at worst, uninstall ReShade completely.
I only know that with my problem a screenshot was not saved one time. I can't tell you how aggressive it is with such software either.
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3 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:
the thing is...to me, ship combat is currently clunky, (very) laggy, and boring. it is a niche implementation of space combat that doesn't interest me in its current form -- i agree that pvp is vital to make this game work, but it is more than just tearing down safe zones.
...does anyone really believe that NQ can achieve a clean implementation for any of these concepts in the next 1-2 years...?
I'd be shocked if they could deliver one of these concepts in a way that's clean and performant before "release".
so to me DU falls into the "other" category: "tech demo with some chance of becoming a game someday" -- they've only got 10 months left to get to "release" and it took them half that to give us balance changes, a few bug fixes, org wallets, and...one type of mission...? yeah i can't wait to see how they approach base raiding and avatar combat. i'm sure it'll be just great.
What can be and what will be remains to be seen. But that was not op's question in this survey, but what kind of game this is for me. And since I still had the vision 4 years ago of what they wanted to sell to the customer so that they would leave money, I evaluated and filled it out accordingly. I will probably be able to draw a first feedback with the territoral warfare.
- Lethys and blundertwink
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50 minutes ago, Sabretooth said:
Now i see that PVP is widely interpreted by some.
But I just meant pvp warfare, like (for example) in the game Galactic Junk League. In which you could build voxel based spaceships to fight in battle. Ive read it was a kind of robocraft with spaceships.
I'm not sure what you're referring to now, but PvP includes CvC, AvA, the economy, teritorial combat and political combat.
This includes:
- Base raiding
- ship raiding
- ship battle
- avatar battleThe industry, the exploration, scouting, spying, and the other interpersonal things you do, you do them for a reason. It's supposed to give you an advantage in the end when it comes to a battle.
All of the above can be destroyed. And that is the motor to go on. This is not an undertaking that you do alone. (Theoretically you could, but like in Eve, that becomes an endeavour that involves several, including orgs and alliances).
But I do PvP because I want to destroy.
Edit: Please address something directly next time if you think so. Otherwise, I'll also start with the point that some people think that such surveys are useful.
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Rotating and Piston elements worry me when I think of what they did in Space Engineers.
Here is an example:
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2 hours ago, Dimencia said:
And, probably most importantly - if you don't like the fact that the game is dead, maybe let people make reviews without shouting shill. For one, NQ should invest money into advertisement - more advertisement means more players, and that's just, how you sell a game. But NQ didn't even pay this one, and they came away with a good impression of the game. The game is in a better state now than it has ever been, except for lack of players - too many people got upset over 0.23, or got bored before it. But, bring in new players who didn't lose anything in the patch, and they've got a full and alive (seeming) world with multiple options for how to make money. Bring in enough of them, and it will become truly full and alive again
Exactly - Let's replace the old playerbase with a new audience who had no expectations and no money to invest in the game when it was on Kickstarter and had a vision that it doesn't fulfil today that we used on Kickstarter several years ago.
Since they have the money of the old players, we can then start to ignore them, since they are no longer important because we have a new playerbase. It doesn't matter who made it possible for the investors to raise more money for this project. We made it clear to them with the business plan and the fundings that there was interest.
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Sorry for the biting tone in my text. But instead of building the game that they have actually presented to the public, the players who have always left feedback for several years are to be replaced by new ones?
How about instead trying to solve the problem for once and bring back the people who made the game possible in the first place? Community bonding or closeness to the community looks very different to me than what we have.
Nevertheless, a big kudo to the community management team that has to read through a lot here. You are proof that a battle helmet is needed at the front.
- Lethys and AlexRingess
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1 hour ago, Lethys said:
Same with energy management too (if we can trust what jc said in interviews - which I don't anymore because he talks too much): they want to make it a bonus at first to ease the players into it - they dont want to have ppl suddenly have to deal with energy and nothing working anymore because of a lack of power. Which makes sense.
0.23 was exactly that: crippling everyone at first instead of creating oppertunities for ppl and the game
Don't worry, I've got your back with the timestamp about power management which will be optional:
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2 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:
The thing is the main way a game like Everquest "encouraged" people to be social, was that they literally forced you to.
If you wanted to progress more then maybe 25% of the way into the game, you needed a guild.
You needed 40+ other people who had mastered their role in the game, and were prepared to log on at a scheduled time, and spend hours farming some raid event, just to get you a drop.
In a lot of ways it wasn't exactly "fun". But sharing the experience of accomplishing something that seemed almost impossible, with a bunch of other people, was obviously something that a lot of people enjoyed. So many people enjoyed it, that everyone wanted to get in on it. Unfortunately not everyone enjoyed it. So you end up with a lot of people trying to change it into something else.
Something else might be cool too. But it isn't going to recapture what was great about Everquest.
People would lose their minds if a game was that hard now. They would be screaming and ripping their hair out and marching on NQ headquarters with torches and pitchforks. If i described how hard it was to master a tradeskill in Everquest, someone's head might explode here.
The only way for NQ to make DU fun, the way Everquest was "fun" is for them to make the hard decisions, that no one likes, and then stick with them until people start to appreciate why it has to be that way.
Or maybe no one wants to play a game like that anymore. I don't know.
What i do know is that if there is any way to progress in a game, that doesn't require making friends with 40+ other people, and then asking them to help you. Most people are going to skip that part.
We can't have both games, NQ has to decide which one they're making and please half of us, or they won't please any of us.
Sandbox games encouraged you to be dependent on other players, as in UO and SWG. But you could be free to do as you pleased. You could pursue your activities without having to join mmorpg groups like in a theme park like in EQ or WoW. The old games had a gameloop. I like to use SWG as an example. Exploring the world always involved finding new resources so you could either sell them or use them yourself. As an artisan you could sell my goods because they knew I was a Master Armorsmith. You got in good with me to get the best prices. As a bounty hounter I had my craftsmen who supplied me with items. And I could hunt down players. After I exhaustedly did the work, I sought out the entertainers (not the macro users!) who chatted with me and entertained me. It was a great way to strike up a conversation and get well rested. And you met some new contacts and people invited you to join a player association in their own cities. (Yes, cities, not 5km towers that are only 1m thick like in DU!)
In WoW, I was a sought-after healer on the Horde side back then. Why do I know that? I logged in and I instantly had at least 10 messages from different people wanting me to heal. If you made a name for yourself, you were remembered. It always paid off to be part of a group in a theme park mmorpg because you had a sense of 'we' when you achieved something. Today, people don't really talk to each other or have become even more antisocial. Just queue random dungeons to prove the point and wipe on the first boss. People will leave the group and you get yelled at.
Theme park mmorpgs like WoW Vanilla were not hard. People just didn't know how to deal with mmorpgs at a "new" time with broad internet access back then in mid 2000. WoW Classic proves that 15 years later. It's not like the game has gotten harder, people just know the mechanics and get used to mmorpgs. (And yes, we can use the Naxxramas patch as a comparison, in case anyone wants to object that it's not the real experience). I'm excited when Blizzard announces The Burning Crusade Classic this weekend (19th feb 2021). Even though it's not official yet, but that seems certain since WoW Classic brought them 3 times as many subs. Just think, the only WoW killer at the end was Classic itself...
Then it's no longer 40 men, but "only" 25. And I'm willing to bet that TBC will bring in more subscriptions than WoW Classic. Because people miss the old feeling, that new games cannot give them.And now we are standing here in DU with nothing. You're supposed to log in to mine, build something and then you ask yourself what for? To stroke your ego when you invite people to see what you've built? There was a reason Landmark flopped. This is in no way that DU reflects the vision from the Kickstarter campaign in its current state, 6 month after the soft launch. (Yes, I don't call it Beta because subscription and no wipe decision) And if I compare my experiences in mmorpgs, which I was allowed to take along since then 2001 in DAoC as a start, then I ask myself seriously who really sees a mmorpg here, which lives up to the spirit, in ANY form at all and does justice to the name sandbox mmorpg. As I wrote in another thread: We have, if anything, a nice tech demo that has no long-term motivation in its current state for the mmorpg market.
NQ has made it so I won't support any crowdfunding platform as far as games are concerned. I am very angry with them about AvA and that they postponed it. Even more so with the lack of gameplay in its current state. I don't mourn the cost of the ruby founder title, but it's the bloody time and energy that went into it.
If for some reason, which I hope is not the case, NQ runs out of money, don't be surprised. You could see it coming. I said back in December 2019, when the podcast was published on YT, that the optional power system and the separation of AvA from the PvP package, and that the Lua code is opensource was a mistake. Do you know what the reaction was? People had their rose-coloured glasses on and ignored it. Even my memes about the missing AvA they found funny, but today they don't laugh anymore. "It is what it is" - But definitely not what they made us believe in 2016 in the KS campaign.
But to find a concluding paragraph again: I would wish today in 2021 that mmorpgs had the depth of previous sandbox mmorpg and yet respected my time up to a point. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but until then I'll look at the mmorpgs I find. Maybe someone will build something like that. But I wouldn't mind investing more time in it again.
- le_souriceau and CptLoRes
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Basically what @joaocordeiro says. I agree 100%.
I will not join this discussion as op insults people, wanting to show constructive critics the way out, expects salt and in the same breath calls for being civil.
This is bait.
3 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:Yet kinda rolled 1 on d20.
- Shaman, IvanGrozniy and Noddles
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Without making a big science out of it, I can tell you why Valheim is great:
- If you have the Swedish melodic-death-metal band Amon Amarth in the trailer, it's an automatic win.
- You have a reason playing cooperatively
- You have a Viking setting where you can challenge the gods. -> PvE
- You have AvA (Avatar vs Avatar), it's optional
Odin owns all of you! We see us in Valhalla!
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In conclusion, it can be said that Novaquark is on the right track and has understood in broad terms what the players want.
This article is gold. Maybe Mr. Sattler should take a look at the NQs forums before he writes such nonsense.
7 minutes ago, blazemonger said:There have been several rather positive publications around DU from sources I'd really expect to show amore realistic view of the state of the game. I'd agree that the sense this is all paid advertising more than truthful reviews is not misplaced IMO.
Another good example was a YT post by Bluedrake42 recently where I listened with amazement on what he was describing as it was nothing like what DU is currently and this guy is generally very realistic on his videos. Oddly he used only old, pre beta footage so I can only assume he never really played the game to create footage post beta.
Frankly, I would not be surprised at all if NQ is pulling some strings to try and paint a better picture for the game that where it is.. I also expect we will start seeing paid actors in game not too long from now, (game)designers NQ will pay to build "player made cities and communities" ..
Thanks for the reminder, blazemonger.
I was sceptical about this video when I saw who it was from and that it was labelled "contains paid advertising".
"Yeah, hold on... " is what someone who has been around for a long time will think. "I know Bluedrake42! That was the guy who made those videos and doubted DU and got into a mud fight with NQ!" It's nice that he now profit from finding good words for the game.
We live in a topsy-turvy world.
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I was watching some videos about mmorpgs this morning and then this video was suggested to me.
It's all the funnier because I had already spoken to a friend about it a few weeks earlier. And lo and behold: an interesting conclusion.
Then reading through the comment section... Sounds familiar.
QuoteWhat made MMOs fun was the social aspect. There is too much now. Facebook, discord, twitter. There is no reason to socialize anymore, and mmos are updating in ways where you can just solo everything now. At least, this is my problem now with WoW. Nobody talks anymore. Nobody plays together. Guilds aren't this hype anymore unless you join one of the top of the 1%.
Drawing this conclusion on DU I wonder if anyone has played a mmorpg at NQ at all.
DU will not work the way it was thought to work for the KS campaign. On paper, maybe. All suggestions made by 2000s mmorg players that had any form of social aspect were ignored.
My scepticism continues to grow with each passing day.
BOO Ruined The Event To Spam Salt Memes
in General Discussions
Posted
Explain what you mean by that, because nowhere have I presented my opinion as an objective truth.
I've said before in another post about this that I note the Twitch metrics data once every Thursday. The last time I posted them they were at 90 and a few crushed, now they have dropped to 70.
The player numbers, which have steadily and demonstrably dropped on Twitch since release, are an indicator to me that interest is waning. Even EVE, meanwhile, has over 400 avg viewers.
To claim otherwise because of a PvP event has no basis in fact. Instead, I would simply say that the game is not convincing in its current form.
Here, found my post where I posted it:
Source for site: https://www.twitchmetrics.net/g/493826-dual-universe