AlexRingess

Whatever you do put up a test server for this and open it to everyone. 
 
pushing to live new systems barely tested and/or tested by people who don't actually play the game like the average player would is going to end badly.

The DRM patch created more problems than it solved. It's a broad stroke attempt to fix a specific issue and NQ once again seems to not have considered nor checked for the wider impact these changes have.
 

I've ran into this, also, when coping from one construct I own, and trying to paste into another construct I own.

I have tried unsuccessfully to replace my existing text on a screen that I owned before the recent (12/7/20?) update.  The DRM list my name as owner but no matter what blocks I check or uncheck I still can't access the text without being told to contact the owner.  I had a few Screens leftover in inventory from before the update that I just installed and successfully added with text.  Anyone know how to fix this lockout when you are the owner?

Only the creator of a construct can do that afaik

So first they disabled all the protections.
Now they enabled all the protections.
 
Do they like trying to binary-search for the correct solution?

So near the end of my 3 month sub, played for a solid 2 months of it then just occasionally the last couple of weeks up until the patch. I will not be renewing (decided this pre-patch already)
 
This patch has honestly terrified me, I can see what NQ is trying to do - but IMO its a big gamble that may backfire. I'll use myself as an example:
 
I've been playing the game to have fun (like most players I hope!), amass some wealth, mine and had the most fun hooking up factories to produce everything of all sizes up to T3.  After producing almost everything, (and honestly have more fun knitting the factory together than anything else) and being happy to have amassed ~32m (which is not much relative to some players and a lot to others) I thought after this patch I'd be able to have some fun still buying a few schematics and setting up a few specialized assembly lines for a few of the T2-3 things. I should add I'm out on Feli and kinda like it here, along with probably dozen other players or so... 
 
Wow, the price to get started is not only steep, they are astronomical - this game would be a complete grind fest for me to continue moving forward. I do not want to make and sell 300 billion xs & s parts to eventually afford enough to buy an M schematic and M related components. I'm afraid to buy any higher priced schematic because the game is still in flux and i have a feeling they may have to adjust pricing a few times, or everyone else has the same idea and will build the same thing.  Additionally, i'll likely have to move back to the soul crushing FPS Destroying markets on Alioth... around people... this is really against the grain with my own playstyle.
 
Looks like solving complex factory wirings will be going away for me as well. I had the most fun making a do-everything factory - now I'm forced to make a simple widget factory in order to grind out enough widgets and dollars to maybe one day afford another widget factory to do this all over again. ? 
 
I sure hope this game works out in the long run, I've had a blast playing it so far - Good luck NQ! I'll check back in a year and see where it's at
 

At least we have a test server where selected few do not test the update, get info and certainly don't use it for economic benefits.

NQ can't really decide for themselves if they want solo players or not

As expected, NQ doesnot think things through.
 
On a ship I bought, one of the scripts no longer works after 0.23
A patch is available
I want to apply patch
Board is DRM locked to creator of construct, the script is in PD
removing the board and trying to remove dynamic properties will not work
placing board back it remain locked under DRM
 
This is what is wrong here:
NQ, in their infinite inconsiderate wisdom, just assumes that a construct creator will also be the Lua code owner and so you can't paste in new code, you can't remove the old code and the board is useless if you replace it with a new one as the code can't be removed at all.
 
 

Oh, and I just found out they also locked down control chairs so I can't update an autoconfig script .. WHAT A JOKE

Hi NQ, 
 
this is for you. Why do you mess up people's playing experience with no consideration of how people actually work in groups? 
 
I'm in an org. We have org constructs. Obviously every one of them has a core placed by one 'creator' but a lot of them were co-operatively built by two or more people. 
 
It's Monday morning and I'm off work, but a lot of people in the org are currently at work. Today is my weekend.  
 
This update you've just done now means I can't edit Lua on org constructs during my day off. 
 
Instead of a total re-write of all existing constructs you should have made it so creators got to decide if it applied or not, and given them the option. 
 
Instead you are taking power away from players and wasting our time. 
 
What next, are you going to delete all existing RDMS so we have to re-write it all and our org falls apart because our mates can't access stuff we want them to because we are at work? 
 
wow, nice move.
 
 

The game was not ready for this indeed. 
 
An endgame and side activities are currently missing from them game. Right now the game is a space
minecraft basically. You have 3 activities: Mining, Crafting, Building. PvP right now is nonexistent as an
activity and there is no pve content either. If you take away crafting then what does a new player do?
Answer is mine all day everyday until they can afford to build stuff by buying everything from the market.
 
This will not be enjoyable by the average player. If you consider these changes not from the perspective
of the average player but a hardcore player that does nothing else but play du then yes it might work for you.
I'm saying this as a player that has been playing du all day for 2 months now. Problem is if all the average
players leave you will be left alone in a dead game. Starters and casuals are crucial to keep the game alive.
 
All changes besides schematics were correct and needed. Element destruction alone was enough to jumpstart
and sustain the economy. Fix pvp on top of that and the market would work just fine. Mass production factories 
could be left to organizations. If these orgs had talents/buffs to mass produce stuff then small factories would 
not be able to match them in prices. As i mentioned in another post a quality factor for an item that was produced
from an org factory would make mass production all the more important, but people would still have their small 
factories being able to craft whatever they needed in small quantities even if they didnt have economic profit from
doing so. That is how it works on any mmo game why reinvent the wheel with this one?
 
My suggestion: Remove schematics for now and refund everyone who bought them since the prices are constant
and do it soon before the game dies. There is great potential at this game do not kill it like this.

Let it sprout organically
 
Civilizations won't exist or sprout just because you practically force players to specialize, the reason it happens in the real world is because people NEED to, they don't want to do that in games, that they pay a subscription for nonetheless, to even presume people would is condescending to your playerbase
 
Let the pace of the game be viable for individual players to achieve things they would normally expect to achieve by playing solo, then the civilizations would sprout up by people who decide to come together and make even greater things
 
Interdependencies will still happen organically from people being better at or enjoying doing certain things than others, you don't have to put game mechanics which arbitrarily make it harder for everyone to do those things
 
Here's how a lot of people feel about the update from my recording during the AMA, and my input as well;
 
 

They will propably have to reduce schematic prices greatly or watch their subs disappear. They will be forced to sooner or later. The longer they take the higher the chances people are gonna get fed up and start searching for other games. And they call this a beta test. Please. This is pre alpha paid with a sub and a 3 month one at that haha. Half of the freaking game is missing. Back to waiting for ashes of creation i guess.
 
66% of forum users want to quit xd. Percentage will be higher out there from people that do not bother reading forums. GG.
 
Definition of game beta test:
Beta testing usually depends on volunteers rather than on paid play testers. By the beta-testing stage, all major bugs should have been worked out in earlier, in-house testing. By the time the beta-testing stage is reached, it is usually too late to make any major changes to the game mechanics, level designs and so on, so any fixes usually take the form of a patch.
This definition was written in the context of Gaming

And people like YOU are why this game is going to die. Don't tell other people how the game should be played or what to do in their free time.
 
Removing gameplay options is almost never a good idea, especially when there's already so little to do in the first place. Have fun building your digital civilization with 12 people.
 
The great thing about free markets and capitalism is nobody is required to pay for products they don't like. You and JC may not like the way people are playing the game but guess what, we're the ones paying NQ's bills. It doesn't matter why people left or if they were playing the "wrong" way. NQ is now missing that revenue stream and the game is missing the content those players could have produced.

Please do NOT tell people how to play the game.
I've more or less the same strategy: solo play, absolutely prefer to be independent, spending most of my time (did at least pre-patch)  building up my base where aesthetics is a priority, crafting some space ships, and visiting other territories to view their creations.
 
Playing an MMO does not mean that you're required to group with others.
Everyone is free to play how he prefers to - we are talking about leisure time.
 
If you like playing solo - just do it, it doesn't hinder others in any way playing in a party mode if they want to.

I still feel some of the changes are too  soon.
 
The removal of Fetch will be causing more tickets
 
The industry changes, as I have said before, by themselves are good but I feel schematics are too expensive and could have been brought in at half their price which would have been better IMO.
 
The patch it self, sorry NQ but this is a terrible sloppy rush job. Very obvious unfinished text, variables that have no value so are showing. No creative thinking on how a schematic collection with limited numbers is implemented, not properly lined up buttons and there's more..
 
The skills gating the industry elements is something I feel is a good balance option to allow players to get a somewhat even start. Yes, big orgs will have industry set up but only T1 and they will need to train into using higher tiers and then build them. Smaller orgs can start collecting ore while these skills train and make enough to get the elements and schematics they may need.. It's not perfect but fair enough and it did somewhat "mellow" my opinion on this.
 
The autoconfig being broken is a big issue and needs to get fixed quickly
 
Converting all blueprints to core blueprints in player inventories is a massive mistake and oversight.  You just gave everyone who bought a construct from a player a core blueprint of that construct and they can now copy and change it as they see fit.. very bad and this alone should have been addressed immediately with  a rollback of the servers after a fix. The creators in the game deserve a better response by you.
 
Why was it decided cores can't be restored? that is such a bad choice to make IMO and I see no reason why this should be a thing.
 
I would have preferred a wipe and expected to see a talent point reset to allow players to rethink their specialization. Some may decide to move away from industry and now have many points in that area. You should really at least refund any industry points or do an overall refund and allow players to respec.
 
 
I still have doubts and question on the choices made but am willing to give the patch a try but please.. get to work on fixing the many sloppy left overs and oversights in the next week or so and certainly close the blueprint loophole asap. IMO the latter should already have happend but should be done by tomorrow at the latest.
 
Please, NQPlease, do not be you and let this patch go into Xmas break like this.. show us you are committed to make this work and fix the most obvious and glaring issues in the patch..
 

People can say what they will about Eve, but it has well-functioning emergent markets. What makes Eve markets function though, isn't some huge level of initial money investment in order to make anything.
 
- Eve resources are way more diverse. It does not take the same base 25 resources to make everything.
- Resources are unevenly and diversely distributed. You commit entire playstyles on gathering one or two types. It takes significant effort to begin collecting moon goo (t2), doing reactions (t3 cruisers), doing PI (citadel and implant production).  You don't get to roam around the universe for 5 days and get everything you need to build everything you want doing the same exact thing (mining planets). Every resource comes with it's own know-how.
- Eve has many alternative chains of value generation. The only income track DU has is mining -> industry -> construct making. You can choose your place in this chain (eg you can be just a miner), but it's one single chain. Once a few people come together there is no reason to not to horizontally complete this chain (mine and build everything in-house), Eve has many chains. So one can be completely uninvolved with the ship production chain yet generate value to go to markets and buy ships. That's why people go to markets in Eve. They have ways of making ISK unrelated to the production chain.
 
If markets aren't functioning as NQ was expecting, the culprit is the feature incompleteness and lack of several deep chains of value generation. It's true that higher investment levels can be better for t4/t5 production, but getting everything behind huge investment walls isn't the answer for specialization and market activity. When the sole prerequisite is money, it just means making money with money is heavily buffed. Eventually rich people will return to their gigafactories and the rest will just starve.
 
EDIT: One thing I forgot. Well-functioning markets are grounded on traders. Traders (among many other roles such as organization managers) can't function without a market API. JC seems to be categorically opposed to APIs. That's a bad choice.

I've just noticed they are in the "coming soon" area in the starting screen. This means NQ is sinking the precious devtime into this idea, which is alarming to me. I know there are other threads about this. But they are not well-argued. If NovaQuark is reading, and I hope they are, let me repeat the stern warning about how terrible mining units will be for the game's economy. This will be overshadowing any damage that we've received during the "bot buy orders for all tiers" first week of the game.
 
In a healthy single shard sandbox sci-fi, you want many careers/playstyles interdependent on one another. These playstyles become rewarding by generating value. Mining is one of these playstyles. And it's going to lose most of its value to mining bots. NQ/JC thinks there is a way which these will work to get just enough ore to not devalue it much, but will be enough to those who don't like the grind of mining. But that's something they will not, and cannot achieve. The bots will crash the value of whatever ore they can gather. Let me tell you why.
 
I had the privilege of a deep look into the developmental process of the maker of the only other single-shard sandbox sci-fi in the market. CCP. The one thing that unites CCP (particularly early years) and NQ is a drastic underestimation of the extent which players will push the boundaries of the game. I heard so many stories about how CCP thought players will achieve some task in years, while it took a month. They have learned a lot from these kind of lessons. NQ is now re-learning the same. The bot orders for T2-T5 ore were one such example. T4-T5 was only bought on Alioth. Which means NQ probably thought it'd take months for players to reach to another planet and actually bring the T5 ore back. They thought it should be a sufficient limitation to prevent players breaking the economy. It took us 15 hours to bring back the first batch and make 80 million. People earned billions in a week until NQ put an end to it (and deleted some of those billions).
 
The same underestimation will happen here. If NQ limits the ore yield of the automatic mining bots, people will mass-deploy them. If they implement limits per territory, people will make endless alt organizations to get more territories for cheap. If they do planet-wide limits, people will run them across all planets. If they do account-bound limits, people will purchase beta invitations (currently 20 million). If these things yield 10% of the normal rate, that'll still be 17 hours of mining per week. That's more mining time than most of us put in the game. Even at 1% of the mining yield, it'll still be profitable for some RMT'er to sub many accounts for this from $7 each, and sell the ore value generated by them to players willing to pay black market for money. And NQ will not have the manpower/technology to enforce bans on them. While other games are actively fighting bots, this game will be such a godsend to RMT'ers where they can actually automate income generation. All they care about is generating value with the least amount of effort.
 
People upvote and promote this idea because many don't like the grind of mining. That's such a bad reason to get mining automation in DU. If people don't like mining, they should buy ore. That's how a single shard sandbox is supposed to work. You generate your value the way you want to do it; and complement miners' playstyle by paying them for the way they like to generate it. If you want a free source of ore to just build things without effort, then why play together in an MMO at all? We could just build stuff in our clients with infinite ore, show them off or fight with them in multiplayer mode. The very reason to actually exist in the same single shard universe is that interdependency. If you don't like to mine, you buy ore, and make a miner's day.
 
I know LUA and programming is cool and NQ wants to promote that. But once people create their systems, easily automatable activities will get old super fast. We're already experiencing it with giga-factories at the industry side. With mining bots, NQ would be doing the same to mining side. 
 
NQ/JC thinks there is a limitation window in which these things won't devalue mining as a profession, but will be useful for players. There is no such window. NQ/JC thinks there is, because they are underestimating what players can and will do in the kind of game they are trying to develop. Any set of limitations will be exploitable by mass-deploying these bots, and thus devalue mining as a DU profession.
 
I want this game to succeed so much. But NQ doesn't need to re-learn single-shard sandbox lessons which others learned 10 years ago. Things like abundance of resources, passive income, etc. ends up being bad for long term player enjoyment. No matter how much they ask for it.

after reading the topic, i agree with all the changes except one, the 50m range limitation.
I think this is too low and here why : the docking is not fixed.
If you are trying to dock a ship on another one but it's not working (doen't matter the reason, right or bug or anything) tthe docked ship is fixed but the other one not.
If you are on the floor, you ship will bounce till he moved out, no problem, but if like me you land your ship on a static core, the bigger ship will go threw the static core.
In my case, my M ship will go threw my static L platform, that means i will have to wait at least 10minutes to pull it back on the top on the platform as a L core is 128m long.
 
a 150m limitation could solve that problem and will not be too much in my mind.

If I can't maneuver tool the voxel board that Yeeted itself 10km away back to my base, then what do I do? Fix game breaking bugs before nerfing the tools we would use to compensate for those bugs.

The Alt-F4 was used to compensate for flaky mechanics. Fix your game before nerfing the tools we use to make this game bearable to play.
 
And nearly nobody travels at sublight speeds anymore, EVERYONE warps. So this nerfing of Alt-F4 only hurts those trying to not have to repair their ships over and over because of game-breaking bugs. And combined with the fact that elements will have a fixed repair amount, you are going to have people ragequitting in droves...

Good day, Noveans!
 
Much of the allure of Dual Universe is the ability to be the captain of your own destiny as you pilot the ship of your dreams. Piloting your ship requires skill and a strategic use of the tools available.
 
The Maneuver Tool is an important part of that toolbox. In its current state, however, it wasn’t working quite the way we planned. As we approach the launch of the 0.23 update, we wanted to talk about changes we’ll be making to the Maneuver Tool as well as changes to issues around what happens when you’re disconnected from the game (intentionally or not) when actively flying your ship.
 
The Maneuver Tool is for maneuvers

The Maneuver Tool was originally introduced to offer a simple way to get your ship out of a small hole or to flip it over when it landed upside down. It also provided a handy way to lift your ship off the ground a bit so you could work on it from below.
 
But as is often the case when designing video games, the cunning imaginations of players found unexpected ways to use the tools that were not intended by the designers, some of which are detrimental to gameplay and could cause issues in the not-so-distant future. Let’s take a closer look at some of the issues caused by the “creative” use of the Maneuver Tool and the upcoming changes we’ll be implementing in the imminent 0.23 update to correct them.
 
Cooperative play is all about collaboration and players helping other players. That’s great, and we don’t want to discourage players from doing that, but how it’s done is important. The Maneuver Tool was not intended as a way to move a ship “by hand” over kilometers or to create a ladder of two ships used as intermediary steps to reach space. These uses went clearly beyond the original intent of the tool.
 
To address this, we’re introducing some limitations in line with the purpose of the tool: 
 
A ship will not be able to move more than 50m in total between accumulated uses of the tool. The distance between the start and end points is added at each run of the tool. The moved distance is reset after three minutes to ensure that players aren’t stuck forever. It is, of course, a per-construct limitation.  Unless the player was in contact with a planet ground or a static/space construct, a ship will no longer freeze in the air during the use of the Maneuver Tool. This will make it possible to lift it up to work under it, but no higher than that.
No more instant stopping of ships upon disconnection

Everyone has “the need for speed”, the desire to get from Point A to Point B in the shortest time possible. So you pull that throttle back, amp up the power and blast off. The danger is that if you don’t carefully monitor your speed, you’ll smash full-force into a planet, your ship will blow up, and you’ll find yourself either returned to your bind point or resurrection node. Ouch!
 
A common workaround for this has been to disconnect from the game just before impact. Upon reconnection, your speed would be reset to zero, and thus you could approach with a safe speed. Although it’s convenient, that’s not how it’s supposed to work.

With the upcoming change, upon reconnecting, as soon as you get in range of the construct, the speed and rotation will be restored to whatever they were when travel was interrupted. The benefits to this change are twofold. First, it will close the aforementioned loophole. Second, it will prevent you from expending twice the amount of fuel to reaccelerate a ship at maximum speed if you had been disconnected for whatever reason.
 
Further, if you disconnect while another player is in range, the server already assigns the task of handling the physical properties of your ship to that nearby player. This means that your ship will continue to move in this situation. On a large ship with many people on board, disconnecting will no longer have the effect of freezing your ship because there will always be other players nearby to continue the simulation of your ship’s movement.
 
We will also add the option to have the Emergency Control Unit (ECU) activated in that case, so that an emergency “braking” can take place if the ship capacity allows it.
 
Keep Doing What You’re Doing
 
We tip our hats to the ingenuity of our Beta testing community. The way you use the tools and mechanics we toss into the sandbox gives us lots of food for thought, showing us the changes we need to make to make the game we all want to play. We encourage you to maneuver your way to the discussion thread to tell us what you think about the adjustments we’re bringing to DU! ❤️ 

It's a suggestion not an edict
Well I did give an example either in this thread or in another post that games which use the word combat instead of PvP has less of this division because the community perceive things differently (ex: ED VS SE), so it is my belief that it does matter

Well if DU is meant to be an immersive, borderline-metaverse space game / MMO like JC / NQ envision, having the community divided between PvP and non-PvP minded people and mechanics would be an issue

YES! I was thinking of posting your graphic ('say "combat" not "PvP) over on the ED forums. There the debate has never ceased and is always polarized between the same two toxic extremes. FDev responded and as a result much of the game has been ruined IMO. I really don't want that to happen to DU.