Ardour

WHO ARE WE ? / QUI SOMMES NOUS ?
Forged in the EVE-Online's flames, scattering tears and white flags across the universe, we were known as "[T C F] Tau Ceti Federation" an alliance of the greater RedSwarm Federation composed of GoonSwarm and Red Alliance. Back in 2010, tired of the game, we leaved and created FrogSwarm a strong community with it's own culture, first in World of Tanks then in Star Conflict, War Thunder, Armored Warfare, Elite Dangerous, Albion Online and many others. We mainly evolve in real MMO sandbox games (even if there is shitty moba in the list) because it's our favorite flavor. Our community has seen more than 2,500 members in 9 years and more than 400 active members.
 
Forgés dans les flammes de EvE-Online, dispersant les larmes et les drapeaux blancs à travers l’univers, nous étions connus sous le nom de “[ T C F ] Tau Ceti Federation”. En 2010, lassés par le jeu, nous sommes partis pour créer FrogSwarm une communauté solide ayant sa propre culture, au début sur World of Tanks, puis Star Conflict, War Thunder, Armored Warfare, Elite Dangerous, Albion Online et bien d’autres encore. Nous évoluons principalement dans les vraient MMO sandbox (même si il y a des moba merdique dans la liste) parce que c'est notre style de jeu favori. Notre communauté a vu passer plus de 2,500 membres en 9 ans et plus de 400 membres actifs.
 

OUR GOALS / NOS OBJECTIFS.
Conquer the universe and prick your cookies! FrogSwarm is a thirties+ corporation, PvP oriented and wishing to have a significant involvement in geopolitics. We do not want to live in safe systems, but have our own path, territories and homeland. In other words, we are an organization who wants to have large old school broadside space battles with allies and enemies of the moment. We do not want to be a random corporation with no activity, we have ambitions and we want to succeed in that way whatever the game we play.
 
Conquérir le monde et vous piquer vos cookies! FrogSwarm est une corporation de trentenaires et plus, orienté PvP souhaitant avoir un poids et une implication importante dans la géopolitique. Nous ne voulons pas vivre dans les systèmes en toute sécurité, mais posséder nos propre territoires. En d’autres termes, nous sommes une organisation désireuse de conquête, de grande batailles spatiales avec nos alliés et ennemies du moment. Nous ne souhaitons pas être une corporation lambda dont l’activité est léthargique, nous avons de l’ambition et nous voulons nous en donner les moyens.
 

FROGSWARM IN VIDEO.
 
You can find out all our videos on FrogTube.
 
 
LEADERSHIP.
FrogSwarm is an enlightened dictatorship community. All officers form the executive council in which we listen and debate ideas. Three leaders called "illuminati" settle and choose the most appropriate direction for the organization. If the enlightened dictatorship can afraid some minds, you should know that we have the firm conviction that no democracy has never worked in a game. We are fortunate to count in exceptional leaders who have advanced experience in the space battlefield 'nuff said.
 
FrogSwarm est une communauté en dictature éclairée. L’ensemble des officiers forment le directoire dans lequel nous écoutons et débattons des idées. Trois dirigeants appelés les “illuminati” choisissent les orientations les mieux adaptées pour l’organisation. Si la dictature éclairée peut refroidir certains esprits, sachez que nous avons la ferme conviction qu’aucune démocratie n’a jamais fonctionné dans un jeu, expérience à l’appui. Nous avons la chance de compter au sein de notre communauté des leaders d’exception qui ont une expérience avancée dans le domaine des batailles 'nuff said.
 

NEWBIES PROGRAM.
We help our newcomers regardless of the game to make them quickly autonomous. Our trainers are concerned to show them the workings of things according to their own wishes, accompanying them for several weeks before the release into the wild. Our mumble helps to stick all together according to members activities and play together so our veterans can pass their advanced knowledge to future generations.
 
Nous accompagnons nos nouveaux arrivants quel que soit le jeu afin qu’il puissent rapidement être autonomes. Nos formateurs s’occupent de leur montrer les rouages selon leurs orientations et les accompagnent pendant plusieurs semaines avant de les lâcher dans la nature. Notre mumble permet de se retrouver selon les activités et de jouer tous ensemble pour que les vétérans puissent passer leurs connaissances aux futures générations.
 

WHAT MAKES US DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHERS ? / QU'EST CE QUI NOUS DIFFÉRENCIE DES AUTRES ?
All and nothing. We are known in the gaming world for our very special humor that may be too focused on troll for some.
Tout et rien. Nous sommes connu dans le monde du jeu vidéo pour avoir un humour tout à fait particulier peut être trop orienté sur le troll pour certains.

TESTIMONY :
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


INTERNAL ORGANIZATION.
Strong members for a strong corporation! Traditionally the corporation is communist. Players bring a portion of their resources, they pool in the corporation so it helps us to provide many services to our members. But also a 100% ship reimbursement program in case of loss during corp or alliance operations. Our goal is to accompany and enrich our members as we can to make sure they do not lack anything for having the hangar of their wishes and our expectations. We want to have strong sectors of activity, such as production, resources or exploration. Our core business "PvP" is costly, we want to give ourselves the way to practice it at all times and not be limited by personal budget issues or hangar.
 
Des membres forts pour une corporation forte ! De manière traditionnelle la corporation est de type communiste. Les joueurs apportent une partie de leurs ressources, qu’ils mettent en commun dans la corporation, afin que celle-ci puisse fournir de nombreux services pour nos membres. Mais aussi un programme de remboursement de vaisseau à 100% en cas de perte pendant les opérations corpo ou alliance. Notre but est d’arriver à accompagner et enrichir nos membres au maximum afin que ceux-ci ne manquent de rien pour disposer de hangars, en adéquation avec leurs souhaits et nos attentes. Nous voulons avoir des secteurs d’activité forts, tels que la production, les ressources ou l’exploration. Notre activité principale “pvp” étant coûteuse, nous voulons nous donner les moyens de pratiquer celle-ci en toutes circonstances et non d’être limités par des problèmes de budget personnel ou de hangar.

 
 
WHAT'S THE RESULT ? / QUE EST LE RÉSULTAT ?
Well... In a daily basis ? Let's see this in image.
Eh bien... Au quotidiens ? Voyons ça en images.
 

 
 
RECRUITMENT. / RECRUTEMENT.
We are a French speaking corporation only. Even if it's sad, a lot of French aren't unable or don't want to talk English and will never join a multilingual organization. Then a long time ago we decided to stick in an organization lang based for the dumb Frenches we are.  Only one way to join : http://frogswarm.fr/apply
 
Nous sommes une corporation de Francophones uniquement. Même si c'est triste, beaucoup de français ne veulent ou ne peuvent parler Anglais et ne rejoindront jamais une organisation internationale. De ce fait, il y a fort longtemps nous avons donc décidé de rester une organisation basé sur notre langue natale pour les idiots de chauvins que nous sommes. Une seule façon de rejoindre : http://frogswarm.fr/apply
 
HOW TO CONTACT US. / COMMENT NOUS CONTACTER.
For obvious security reasons, whatever services you will use to contact us, you will need to identify yourself with a Frog ID.
Pour des raisons évidentes de sécurité, quel que soit le service que vous allez utiliser pour nous contacter, vous aurez besoin de vous authentifier avec un Frog ID.
 
First / D'abord
Create your Frog ID : http://frogswarm.fr/register  
Créer votre Frog ID : http://frogswarm.fr/register  
Then / Ensuite
Join our discord: http://frogswarm.fr/discord Join our forums : https://forum.frogswarm.fr  
Rejoignez notre discord: http://frogswarm.fr/discord Rejoignez nos forums : https://forum.frogswarm.fr  
An embassy is available here to contact us for any issues or official need to talk.
Une ambassade diplomatique est disponible ici pour nous contacter en cas de problèmes ou de besoin de discuter officiel.
 
For anything else just check at our Wiki : http://wiki.frogswarm.fr/
 
Pour tout autres choses regardez notre Wiki : http://wiki.frogswarm.fr/
 
 
 
Did you noticed ? We fucking own at propaganda.
Vous avez remarqué ? On déchire en propagande.
https://pics.frogswarm.fr/#15729849986004

I had to get a new phone yesterday, and I felt it could use some DU'ing... So here's a few phone wallpapers that were put together at my request:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Bleep_Bloop and welcome to our forum.
 
Not sure if this is the best way to introduce yourself in a positive way, but that's your choice.
We know our project is ambitious and we don't force anyone to believe the Novaquark team on words alone. We communicate as much as possible on the game development, we show what we can show. We do our best to avoid overpromising things (we stick to what seems to be technically feasible to us) and we try to be as transparent as possible in the development process, then it's up to the players to make their own opinion. 
 
If you have a hard time to imagine how a game can contain many planets without being extremely unstable, keep in mind that the game world won't be hosted on just one single hardware server, but hosted on a server cluster. 
 
we suggest to look at:
- This page on our website describing the "single shard" technology: http://www.dualthegame.com/technology
- This devblog post: https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/09/26/a-single-shard-continuous-universe-one-world-no-boundaries/
- This video explaining visually how the game world is splitted in real time across many servers to keep a global stability and handle the workload proportionally to the number of players gathering in specific areas: 
 
After that, if you still have questions, feel free to ask.
 
About Brian Fargo:
You might not like the games delivered by his studio (maybe they don't suit your tastes) but they have been successful and the numbers disagree with your opinion. The fact that you don't like them doesn't mean they are bad. Beside, it would make no sense to compare Wasteland 2/Torment: Tides of Numenera with Dual Universe as they are two completely different types of games (the first ones are rpg solo games with deep storyteling designed by developers in 3D isometric view, the other one is a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG Sandbox in first person view where the story is made by players).
 
Best Regards,
Nyzaltar.

Will anyone from the DU community be attending E3 this year?
 
I just found out that I am eligible for a free industry pass, so I'm starting to make preparations to attend. It would be cool to meet up with some others there since I don't really know anyone out there.

Welcome :-)
 
I suppose it's worth asking if you are involved in finance in your real-world life, as that may impact a person's decision whether or not to trust the use of your services in-game.

We won't get into one of these discussions, but I really do think that players all over the world should be welcomed into DU. After all, people of all nationalities should be welcomed.

Indeed that's the right thing to do. Plus, plenty of these countries militaries are built up of USA miitary. Also, where would the world economy go without The United States? ????

Indeed that's the right thing to do. Plus, plenty of these countries militaries are built up of USA miitary. Also, where would the world economy go without The United States? ????

Glad you made a apology, but what you did was extremely dishonest, and is not okay.

If you look at this clip you will see multiple moving platforms and ships moving about. On those platforms there are players walking on them and it behaves exactly like walking on a planet. 
 
https://youtu.be/0S7sjAoIFMQ
 
Technically thats tons of impressive.
Each construct moves independant from the planet, each with their own xyz axis. Very impressive.
 
Dont worry about it.

I mean, I'm not trying to judge or anything here ... but doesn't it make a bit more sense to recruit the ministers from within the Terran Union rather than just looking for anyone who happens to pass by on the forums? 
 
You have over 400 members, aren't there any qualified people there that could be promoted?

Dear all,
 
In the wait of Dual Universe, FrogSwarm decided to jump into Empyrion which is quite the 'same' kind of game, so I decided to tell you some of our story in it.
 
We made our sweet home a spatial base in a deep space and we own multiple mining outpost on some planets for its interesting mineral resources that helps in our ship production.
 
One of them is called Netpune, very popular for the peaceful traders and miners corporation since they live here and call it home. But a few months later, the miners explained us they had a ruler corporation on Neptune called IMT blackmailing them since they had the biggest military forces and nobody would try to fight. Moreover this corporation wasn't respecting any of the server's rules, using exploits to give them monstrous advantages and not listening at any request from the other corporations of the planet. More than that, miners and traders, where afraid to ask anything to them.
 
One of the problem was IMT had 7 huge bases on this planet. And because there is a limit of buildings number you can place in a planet, no one else could be able to create anything. And one other was the huge number of usefulness blocks they had making the planet stream loading very laggy.
 
When we heard that, we decided to jump in and help them in a diplomatic way. We federate then to write a request in the official forum, for a diplomacy start. They kindly asked IMT to remove some of the blocks to help people about the lag since it was really awful and we showed our support by answering that we also were going to remove some unnecessary stuff we had on our outpost to help even if we weren't directly concerned.
 
 

 
 
The MIT leadership answer came and talks by itself. But what they didn't knew when they posted is that this arrogance would lead them to their loss. Their ignorance of the military force of FrogSwarm was a good reason to give them a lesson of humility.
 

 
 
Operation 'Arrogance'

At Saturday 09:00pm, FrogSwarm lauched the operation 'Arrogance'. Exclusively a photo of a part of our capital fleet parked on an outpost waiting the order to jump. As well a close photo of one of our Battleship.
 

 

 
An hour later, the main base as well as 6 other IMT bases are destroyed, included their entire capital fleet in orbit on Neptune. FrogSwarm will lose a single capital ship and two tanks on the ground. If I can not give the details of our strategy, I can simply say that IMTs did not expect such a surge. We fought in the same time in the bases with our intervention forces, on the ground with our tanks and finally in space with our capital fleet.
 
At 10:30pm we celebrate the success of your operation, our capital fleet hovering above the old IMT base now owned by us and renamed for the occasion as: 'Option #4' before giving all we captured including resources and vessels to the corporations of Neptune in equitable sharing and offered them the protection of our capital feet hovering above during the 'looting party' of their bases still smoking before packing and returning on our space base.
 
The planet being freed from the IMT tyranny, we posted this:
 

 
 
And the Miners / Traders are very happy and thankful for what we did.
 

 
We offered to reopen the dialogue with IMT, but no any answer to date.
 
So, we destroyed the last IMT base in another planet called Osiris on Sunday and Monday they tried fight back, but they loss their entire cap fleet for the last time since they don't own anything more.
 
 
That's it ! I hope you enjoyed it, see you for the next chapter.

I want to dig into the side of a mountain and have a nice vista of some valley from the main room of my base

Which do you prefer?
 
If you chose other, feel free to state what other biome you thought of in the comments.

Forests are great, conceals movement and allows for semi-covert operation. 

If you know how to go about it. 

Though, mountains are good for building bunkers and tunnel networks, 
however, if you were to have a combination where the entrances to said network would be concealed by the forest, it would be good. 

Well done

Cool cool

Constitution Draft

1. Everyone in organisation is equal.

2. Organisation should provide a security, stability and resources needed to everyone.

3. Decision making is done by comity of legates and validation of opinions is backed up by scientific methods. Everyone can be nominated to the Legate status.

4. Whatever you do, organisation values, goals and members comes first.

5. Science and technology is a primary source of wisdom.

6. Our social structure is based on a unorganisation principals. Our structure should remain flat and decentralized.

7. All activity of organisation members serves improvement of standards of living and greater good of all members of organisation.

8. Nobody can enforce any member to do as he wish, but any member that acts against values of organisation can be expelled.

9. Every member of organisation has a right to prove his point and question any decision if provides a proof of a flaw.

10. Opinions or ideas are implemented when accepted by majority of members. But only 1 scientific proof  can dismiss it if invalid.

11. We share and distribute our resources based on organisation needs and goals. Individual needs are met by commitment of all members into organisation.

12. Religion, fanaticism or any other irrational way of thinking or satus-quo of any sort has no place in our organisation. If you believe in elfs or santa you should not be here.

13. If you think we are not those who going to change the world, it only means that you are the one who is going to do it. Nor be with us.

14. Organisation is to remain non aggressive, but has full rights and duty to defend itself and because of leaving among dangerous organisation shall establish superior defense systems.

15. Member shares and privileges are based on the member contribution.

It's to award designers that have worked hard or are doing well. And yes more advanced programs help, and make a better looking design.

Now what kind of dictator would he be if anybody could just talk to him like they want? That wouldn't be very dictatorial.
 
But seriously now, you've taken a good step. I doubt you'll loose your reputation any time soon, but I could imagine you being able to use it in some form. Perhaps something great might develop from your past.

​Acknowledgement and Apology
 
 
Hello everyone, I am making this post to ackowledge that I was in the wrong from the start. I want to appoligize for my past comments and behavior towards the community. It all started with the spam issue, and everything errupted from there. I am sorry how I did not take the advice as I should have. We have made many mistakes, and I sincerely am sorry for how everything has turned out because of these mistakes. For example, we messaged too many users to help promote our organization. Also, we did not take the advice given with the amount of respect it deserved. Yes, we failed to generate good relations with many organizations. I am extremely sorry-
 
    And would like to say I am now working on my attitude towards the community. I will show more effort into taking advice. I will learn from the mistakes I have made in the past, and show all the effort I can to fix our damage. We have done a lot wrong, and have treated the community in ways that are not okay. As you can tell a lot of mistakes have been made. That is now in the past, as I will do everything I can to improve our relations, and not repeat the mistakes.
 
    As I will try my very best, I am asking everyone to also be a bit more peaceful towards us. Start fresh, and speak about the future. If we can all make an effort to fix the past mistakes and start fresh, I see an amazing future. Also, I have taken all of the advice in the past into consideration now. I am using it to help fix this reputation.
 
I am sincerely sorry for everything that has happened. And am sorry how the relations played out in return.
 
Let's try our best to be more open, and give me one last chance. Yes, I should earn my relations back, but also don't make it so tough that it is not worth it..
​Thank you all for the advice, as I will try my best to improve everything. I will change in attitude and work hard to remain in peace.
 
Shout out to:
- The Solar Empire -
- Cinderfall Cindicate -
- Terran Union -
- DUA -
- ODY -
- BOO -
- Alpha academy -
- The Aether -
- VMS -
- Chuckling Casket -
- CI -
 
 
 
 
- Thanks, - The Ruler, - mmtheboss - The Void Republic -

​Acknowledgement and Apology
 
 
Hello everyone, I am making this post to ackowledge that I was in the wrong from the start. I want to appoligize for my past comments and behavior towards the community. It all started with the spam issue, and everything errupted from there. I am sorry how I did not take the advice as I should have. We have made many mistakes, and I sincerely am sorry for how everything has turned out because of these mistakes. For example, we messaged too many users to help promote our organization. Also, we did not take the advice given with the amount of respect it deserved. Yes, we failed to generate good relations with many organizations. I am extremely sorry-
 
    And would like to say I am now working on my attitude towards the community. I will show more effort into taking advice. I will learn from the mistakes I have made in the past, and show all the effort I can to fix our damage. We have done a lot wrong, and have treated the community in ways that are not okay. As you can tell a lot of mistakes have been made. That is now in the past, as I will do everything I can to improve our relations, and not repeat the mistakes.
 
    As I will try my very best, I am asking everyone to also be a bit more peaceful towards us. Start fresh, and speak about the future. If we can all make an effort to fix the past mistakes and start fresh, I see an amazing future. Also, I have taken all of the advice in the past into consideration now. I am using it to help fix this reputation.
 
I am sincerely sorry for everything that has happened. And am sorry how the relations played out in return.
 
Let's try our best to be more open, and give me one last chance. Yes, I should earn my relations back, but also don't make it so tough that it is not worth it..
​Thank you all for the advice, as I will try my best to improve everything. I will change in attitude and work hard to remain in peace.
 
Shout out to:
- The Solar Empire -
- Cinderfall Cindicate -
- Terran Union -
- DUA -
- ODY -
- BOO -
- Alpha academy -
- The Aether -
- VMS -
- Chuckling Casket -
- CI -
 
 
 
 
- Thanks, - The Ruler, - mmtheboss - The Void Republic -

​Acknowledgement and Apology
 
 
Hello everyone, I am making this post to ackowledge that I was in the wrong from the start. I want to appoligize for my past comments and behavior towards the community. It all started with the spam issue, and everything errupted from there. I am sorry how I did not take the advice as I should have. We have made many mistakes, and I sincerely am sorry for how everything has turned out because of these mistakes. For example, we messaged too many users to help promote our organization. Also, we did not take the advice given with the amount of respect it deserved. Yes, we failed to generate good relations with many organizations. I am extremely sorry-
 
    And would like to say I am now working on my attitude towards the community. I will show more effort into taking advice. I will learn from the mistakes I have made in the past, and show all the effort I can to fix our damage. We have done a lot wrong, and have treated the community in ways that are not okay. As you can tell a lot of mistakes have been made. That is now in the past, as I will do everything I can to improve our relations, and not repeat the mistakes.
 
    As I will try my very best, I am asking everyone to also be a bit more peaceful towards us. Start fresh, and speak about the future. If we can all make an effort to fix the past mistakes and start fresh, I see an amazing future. Also, I have taken all of the advice in the past into consideration now. I am using it to help fix this reputation.
 
I am sincerely sorry for everything that has happened. And am sorry how the relations played out in return.
 
Let's try our best to be more open, and give me one last chance. Yes, I should earn my relations back, but also don't make it so tough that it is not worth it..
​Thank you all for the advice, as I will try my best to improve everything. I will change in attitude and work hard to remain in peace.
 
Shout out to:
- The Solar Empire -
- Cinderfall Cindicate -
- Terran Union -
- DUA -
- ODY -
- BOO -
- Alpha academy -
- The Aether -
- VMS -
- Chuckling Casket -
- CI -
 
 
 
 
- Thanks, - The Ruler, - mmtheboss - The Void Republic -

​Acknowledgement and Apology
 
 
Hello everyone, I am making this post to ackowledge that I was in the wrong from the start. I want to appoligize for my past comments and behavior towards the community. It all started with the spam issue, and everything errupted from there. I am sorry how I did not take the advice as I should have. We have made many mistakes, and I sincerely am sorry for how everything has turned out because of these mistakes. For example, we messaged too many users to help promote our organization. Also, we did not take the advice given with the amount of respect it deserved. Yes, we failed to generate good relations with many organizations. I am extremely sorry-
 
    And would like to say I am now working on my attitude towards the community. I will show more effort into taking advice. I will learn from the mistakes I have made in the past, and show all the effort I can to fix our damage. We have done a lot wrong, and have treated the community in ways that are not okay. As you can tell a lot of mistakes have been made. That is now in the past, as I will do everything I can to improve our relations, and not repeat the mistakes.
 
    As I will try my very best, I am asking everyone to also be a bit more peaceful towards us. Start fresh, and speak about the future. If we can all make an effort to fix the past mistakes and start fresh, I see an amazing future. Also, I have taken all of the advice in the past into consideration now. I am using it to help fix this reputation.
 
I am sincerely sorry for everything that has happened. And am sorry how the relations played out in return.
 
Let's try our best to be more open, and give me one last chance. Yes, I should earn my relations back, but also don't make it so tough that it is not worth it..
​Thank you all for the advice, as I will try my best to improve everything. I will change in attitude and work hard to remain in peace.
 
Shout out to:
- The Solar Empire -
- Cinderfall Cindicate -
- Terran Union -
- DUA -
- ODY -
- BOO -
- Alpha academy -
- The Aether -
- VMS -
- Chuckling Casket -
- CI -
 
 
 
 
- Thanks, - The Ruler, - mmtheboss - The Void Republic -

​Acknowledgement and Apology
 
 
Hello everyone, I am making this post to ackowledge that I was in the wrong from the start. I want to appoligize for my past comments and behavior towards the community. It all started with the spam issue, and everything errupted from there. I am sorry how I did not take the advice as I should have. We have made many mistakes, and I sincerely am sorry for how everything has turned out because of these mistakes. For example, we messaged too many users to help promote our organization. Also, we did not take the advice given with the amount of respect it deserved. Yes, we failed to generate good relations with many organizations. I am extremely sorry-
 
    And would like to say I am now working on my attitude towards the community. I will show more effort into taking advice. I will learn from the mistakes I have made in the past, and show all the effort I can to fix our damage. We have done a lot wrong, and have treated the community in ways that are not okay. As you can tell a lot of mistakes have been made. That is now in the past, as I will do everything I can to improve our relations, and not repeat the mistakes.
 
    As I will try my very best, I am asking everyone to also be a bit more peaceful towards us. Start fresh, and speak about the future. If we can all make an effort to fix the past mistakes and start fresh, I see an amazing future. Also, I have taken all of the advice in the past into consideration now. I am using it to help fix this reputation.
 
I am sincerely sorry for everything that has happened. And am sorry how the relations played out in return.
 
Let's try our best to be more open, and give me one last chance. Yes, I should earn my relations back, but also don't make it so tough that it is not worth it..
​Thank you all for the advice, as I will try my best to improve everything. I will change in attitude and work hard to remain in peace.
 
Shout out to:
- The Solar Empire -
- Cinderfall Cindicate -
- Terran Union -
- DUA -
- ODY -
- BOO -
- Alpha academy -
- The Aether -
- VMS -
- Chuckling Casket -
- CI -
 
 
 
 
- Thanks, - The Ruler, - mmtheboss - The Void Republic -