DevisDevine

The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.
 
In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

The isk inflation had nothing to do when you sell to NPCs in eve, as NPCs didnt buy anything. They gave out quest which injected money, but would never buy items from you on the market. Their market, as DU intends to be, is player driven. 

The isk inflation had nothing to do when you sell to NPCs in eve, as NPCs didnt buy anything. They gave out quest which injected money, but would never buy items from you on the market. Their market, as DU intends to be, is player driven. 

Hello,
 
I cant help notice that models have a fixed scale and cannot be voxel modified. It could be an interesting mechanic to have a scale modifier that increases size of then model and the stats, so you can make tiny bots to run around conduits and repair your ship. The models are 3D and the scalar is 1D thus would have to scale to the cube to be realistic, with a linear loss function according to abs(original scale - scale) * balancingTweakingConstantScalar.
 
this would allow for quite interresting things like gigantic reactors, massive guns and tiny bots.
 
I hope you like that idea

I can see it now, after 6 months of work someone puts out a blueprint for an ancient Mahogony tree or century old cypress that you can buy, slice up, and use in furnature. All the big buainess would want it over the cheap pine patterns found on the market.
 
 
But seriously, smaller than 25cm would be nice, but it destracts from the overall game right now. Components, mesh objects, that act as chairs and tables can replace this for now. Besides, having it a component can make it functional, as in using a chair to actually sit.
 
I can see a game in 5-10 years after release where we're dealing with 1cm voxels and interaction components. So you can imbed something in a chair you create, allowing you to sit. But tracking smaller sized cubes means more components for interactions, meaning more calculations and heavier server loads.
Now techniques like block groupings to form 1 larger block, or even creating a hallow body mesh of the object could reduce this. But it not only takes development time but also how will you handle component destruction if it is now 1 entity.
 
So I agree we should ask for it as a future goal, but I dont expect it soon.

the teritory and piracy thing could be something to note... if it hadnt been addressed already.
 
I can tell you now how much territory the largest orginazation will control, 0%. or the limit as X approaches it. Remember the universe is infinite. Someone have that teritory, move on.
Furthermore as JC stated, with there being no choke points it will be harder to control large territories. you can enter amd exit a given space from anywhere around a 3D sphere.
 
As for piracy, sure it will likely happen on trade routes, so what. Deal with it yourself thats the point of emergent game play.
 
I dont see where someone can control the market, or why it woulf matter. Everything is player made, meaning it comes from what you and others harvest. If no one controls all the teritory you can just mine yourself and make it, or make your own market elsewhere

That was my question. It has been stated for months thats what the skill system will be

You definatly put a lot of thought into it. I personally would love even realistic gravity, and maybe in 10 years we can get that. But I can tell you for now that is a lot of added calculations to tax the servers.
Sure its not many per player, but for thousands of players and millions of obkects it's a lot. And the devs seem to be taking large steps to reduce that for now. But once Carbon nanotube or Quantum computers hit the market its all good.

Double tap

After spending some time on the Dual Universe Facebook, kickstarter page and these forums I have noticed a lot of very negative feedback about the subscription price model. It actually got me down a bit seeing how many people were saying things like "sub game, I'm out." And i just wanted to say to people who may be feeling a little down about all the negative feedback(The NQ Dev and community manager as well):
 
Remember Overwatch.
 
For those that don't know Overwatch got a lot of flak when they announced that it would be $40 pc/$60 console. In fact I was able to find this post from 10 months ago simply by Googling Overwatch overpriced:
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/3rughx/so_overwatch_will_be_40_am_i_alone_in_thinking/
 
At the time I remember what felt like a HUGE amount of the player base saying very similar things about Overwatch that are now being said about DU. "Full price for an Arena pvp style game, I'm out." Players saying things like the devs were out of touch, that these types of pvp games are all f2p now,  it should be f2p and players can just buy heroes like every other game. The blizzard dev team knew that hero swapping was simply too important to the games concept to allow for a f2p and buy heroes style game. They knew that to have a good game they needed to sell all the heroes in a package so that teams weren't held back by a player who only owned two heroes and was getting counter picked. In short they priced the game the way it needed to be priced to make the game work. Overwatch has become extremely successful and has sold millions of copies.
 
I just wanted to say to the dev team if you make a good game people will buy it and pay a sub fee or whatever pay system. Just do what is best for the game and the vision you have for it. To the community and the dev team, if you are feeling a little down, like I was, about the amount of negative feedback just remember that other games have gone through similar problems and come out extremely successful.
 

WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE!!!!!!
 
 
Um, sorry wrong forum. Welcome to DU, try not to get to lost in the information and overload yourself on the first day. 

So Eve has shown that this model works really well. And one of the biggest reasons for NQ to implement this is to hinder the gold farmers. No matter what all MMO games will have them, but giving players a legal route to do this that both hinders the gold farmers, which can severely hurt the in game market, and gives players a way to play with no RL money investment. 
 
So there is a slight increase in the DAC cost with will earn NQ the difference but thats it, unless you do intentionally hord them. Lets assume there are 2 subscribers to the game. You and the guy you are selling too. In order for you both to play it requires 2 subs. if each of you buy them yourself then thats it. But lets assume he buys his and you would rather make money in game and buy a DAC. Now that guy buys his sub and a DAC, selling you one for in game currency. NQ has benefited by the difference in this transaction, but thats all. 
 
Now lets look at you working in game for what you did vs him spending real world money. If you choose to sell your 25 hr creation for 2 DACs then thats you're choice. Furthermore you can resell those designs again as you did in the second instance. What is happening is he is trading real world currency for your work in game. The money or items he gets for DAC isnt created out of thin air. It has to be earned by someone else's work in game, in this case yours. It still has to be earned by someone. 
 
So what will happen is the market will normalize at a price for DAC's eventually, a given credit amount. You will buy them with your credits. And when you have something to sell you will sell them for credits (we havent been told how the credits will be injected into the game).  You can decide how much you think your invested time is worth. It will either sell or not based on what others think. And maybe it will take you 25 hours to create something worth 2 DAC and maybe another guy can make something worth 2 DACs in just 15 hours. Whats interesting is with designs it will be highly subjective. With eve, there was a normal, somewhat restricted rate of making isk based on your skills and what you're doing. But with DU and making your own constructs, even mining could be done at varied speeds.
 
The reason I like this system is it allows people who have busy real lives and limited time to play on the same level of the basement nerd. You may have 40+ hours a week to play, whereas the guy who has a busy job and a family may only have 10 at best. (and they tend to be broken up and interrupted) Why should he be penalized for this, after all he is spending the same amount on a sub as you each month. So he finds it wroth wild to buy his sub and a DAC a month to supplement his game play. Instead of mining 10 hours a week he buys the resources and builds his ship only. 
 
Now lets say NQ decided that for $15 they just gave you 1mil in game currency. Well this would be game breaking as it could cause massive inflation in the markets and ruin the economy. This is why the method of money injection into the economy will matter. Usually MMOs do this by quest and bounties on NPCs. 

I understand that upkeep cam be difficult for some, but there must be some way for people to reclaim abandoned structures.
 
I was under the impression that hacking TCUs and ships gave that mechanism. But maybe it wont in a safe zone.
 
I wouldnt mind a decay mechanism, so long as it can be automated when the resources are provided. It would be tedious regardless of how well you are organized if you were to have to do it manually.
 
Eves system for this isnt bad. POS require fuel, without it to power them and form the shield anyone can take it over. TCUs could require a power source, ajd the same goes for ships. Ships require a low amount of power for baseline systems and without it the computers shut down allowing anyone access to scrap it.

I think it has to be a subscription. The servers will have to be maintained and expanded as player base grows. As well as upgraded as new tech becomes  available to keep the game current and running smooth. With a buy to play you get a surge of money up front but then nothing to support the game in the long run, let along expand it. 
 
The monthly pay keeps money flowing in, and gives incentive to keep developing the game to keep old players interested and bring new players in. 

Multi boxing is not pay 2 win xD lol. Multiboxing in pvp is lame and makes aeasy target for non multiboxers thats for shure tahts why few people do that. But to have to log different character to say check a market on one side of the universe and then another istead of haveing them loged at the same time is riduculous.
I do not understand why are there so many ppl trying to impose all sorts of limits sugesting ridiculous ideas.
Ban multibox, favour the defending pvp side, make free to play... it feels that half of this forum don't even want DU, they want a minecraft mmo...

There could always be automated defenses to blow them up. 
 
 
Maybe in in the atmosphere have some set proportional scale based on mass. But defiantly not based on aerodynamics. 

Dude are you kidding me. Can you imagine, you breach the hull of my capital ship, entering the hangar and Bama, theres a giant T-rex waiting for you. After fighting you way past and loose half your men you get into the corridors where I have packs of raptors roaming and waiting for you. Then I genetically modify a massive dinosaur whale for my support ships and they just eat your smaller vessels. 
 
 
But ARK is good, I agree the optimizaion sucks, but its Alpha (or do they call it Pre-Alpha) either way its not finalized. They are doing good things and rapidly adding content. But its still not what DU is going for. 

Welcome to the forums man. Old Galenite pilot here, but Ive been out for a few years. 
 
I recommend you read the dev logs to get a feel for where they are going. I'm sure you have lots of questions. 

Like the ship from Farscape. 
 
Star Trek TNG also had one episode with a living ship.
 
 
"Space whales" are a staple of Scifi.  With many many instances of encountering rare space fairing large creatures.  Sometimes the lore is that the technology for FTL travel is actually reverse engineered from studying them... Sometimes it's that they are captured and converted to space craft... and sometimes like Babylon 5 it's the culmination of technological development.
 
So there's lots of ways you could fit it into the game.

From what I have seen, developers of DU are pretty much inclined to use P2P + "PLEX" model and honestly that makes me very glad. This is great model and it works fine WHEN USED THE PROPER WAY. Now with the proper way... there start the complications. I know this system pretty well as I am active player of EvE Online since 2010 and I know how well it works. There are several myths that some people are trying to use in order to spook away those, who never been in that game and never seen the system from inside... "you'll need to mine asteroids all the month in order to get paid for the game time in order to mine asteroids the next month..." - anyone who played game really knows that it's not true - you can earn PLEX in EVE in two-three nights, playing 2-3 hours per night and doing it a fun way, in a group of other players and having fun (or even earn faster, just doing less fun and interesting things). And you can get necessary skills and ingame equipment to do that within ~ one month. Yes it takes time to read guides and you will most probably need good social skills to communicate with other players to get knowhow and to clear out a lot of questions - but isn't that the purpose of an MMO game after all?
 
So I know that this model works, I like how it works and I welcome the Idea to use it.
 
BUT I have seen how this model works well in EvE Online and I have seen how it FAILS in several other games that took the idea without the context it was used in.
 
First reason why PLEX system worked and still works fine in EvE is because game has essential ingame currency sinks and their ingame currency ISK is in constant demand. Players are constantly loosing big amounts of ISK (in several different ways) and they need more, therefore those who can afford to buy PLEX for IRL cash and sell it for the ISK, are quite eager to do that. The problem I have seen in ALL other games that tried to imitate this system was that they failed to create essential ingame currency sinks - there are huge amounts of ingame currencies that are floating around and generally just change the hands, but are never lost and disappear from the game, or if they do, then its just negligible percent of all the funds that are on players' hands. Thus there is no real demand for ingame cash, its almost useless and there is no reall market for those tokens - people don't sell them or if they do, then the price is so high (in order to make huge income of ingame currency which would allow to buy at least something really special in overinflated economy) that it almost does not make sense to pay it - that makes low demand for those overpriced tokens, sales become really stale, rare and thus people don't want to buy those tokens for IRL cash and wait for who knows how long to actually sell them for ingame currency... when EvE is totally opposite to that as literaly thousands of PLEX tokens are sold each day - sometimes they just change hands, as it's pretty good passive investment but quite often used for the ingame services: game time, vanity items (through aurum shop), character transfers, tickets for events and so on. So what makes PLEX in EvE really flourish is that there are plenty of ways to consume PLEX itself and there is a lot of way to consume and LOOSE FOR GOOD the ingame currency ISK as well. All that I seen in other games and I have seen quite a lot of them, who tried to implement the system of game time tokens, were not even close to the success of the PLEX in EvE.
 
I hope that developers of DU understand or will come to understanding of this aspect and won’t implement the bare token, but will create the system which would encourage demand for this token.

Since this game will be cloud based for the single shard system, I would love to see integration with a mobile app and push notifications that can be set up to respond to in game events, such as a perimeter radar that notifies you immediately if someone comes in range or breaches your compound or ship.
 
That would provide the ultimate hook to lock me to the game. If I know someone is attacking my base, I would make every effort to be back on game as soon as possible to defend.

I would suggest you read the Dev blogs here:
https://devblog.dualthegame.com
 
You questions are mostly answered in there and it is a good place to start to get an idea of the game. . But in short. 
 
Yes, eve online was an inspiration, as well as Minecraft. Those were the primary 2 given but theres a host of others. 
 
There can be wars if you choose, there can be politics, there will be a player driven economy like eve. 
As for wars and politics, that is up to the players. It is emergent game play, driven by what players want to do. There is no set 'corporation' and 'alliance' structure like eve. Instead there is a tag system that allows you to assign rights, duties, salaries, usage fees, and a host of other things. With the tag system you can create any form of orginization you want, weather it be democracy or a dictatorship. The relevent dev blogs are here:
 
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/
 
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/03/20/organizations-build-your-corporation-faction-nation-or-empire/
 
As for First person, there will be first person, and hopefully third person view as well. Everything will be voxel based, meaning the terrain will be destructible and mineable. All ships and builds you build will be construct made of voxels. Additionally there will be mesh based components that add functionality to your construct if you choose. If you have played Space Engineers or Planet Explorers, you will have an idea of how the system will work. 

What do you mean by dormant performances?
 
And I was thinking about this more. They may push more of the CPU stuff to the servers and just push the clients the data to render. Meaning it would be more memory GPU heavy. They could go so many ways, I'm unsure of what's the best way for performance with a game this scale.

Hmm. Interesting. With a possible infinite amount of people you would expect prices to drop as sales go up. But I assumed as more people ventured in an area more would sell their data, dropping prices for that info more. But if you are the only one to a location then it's rare data and worth more, until people venture that way more. This would allow you to make a better profit on new data and not just somewhere everyone is.
 
But having a limited number of copies is interesting. Each scan yields maybe 5 copies of the data, keep it or sell it all off. Better equient will yield more copies, but it will always be finite. Rapidly developing places will have higher demand for updated maps, but also likely more people are making them. It would split groups into the true explorers and just the urban surveyors.
 
I did eleude to the fact it would be data at that time. Having a date of when it was taken would be useful to determining how accurate it is. Maybe when you warp in there's a massive military base built there.

Welcome to the wait man.