Ben Fargo

I would never consider claiming land which was not claimed before grieving.  If some builds on a territory that has not been claimed, they should accept the risk of losing their constructs.  If someone is prudent, they would only build either on land they already own or where they have permission to build from the owner.  Letting players effectively claim land by building on it would defeat the purpose of the territory units.

I would never consider claiming land which was not claimed before grieving.  If some builds on a territory that has not been claimed, they should accept the risk of losing their constructs.  If someone is prudent, they would only build either on land they already own or where they have permission to build from the owner.  Letting players effectively claim land by building on it would defeat the purpose of the territory units.

I would never consider claiming land which was not claimed before grieving.  If some builds on a territory that has not been claimed, they should accept the risk of losing their constructs.  If someone is prudent, they would only build either on land they already own or where they have permission to build from the owner.  Letting players effectively claim land by building on it would defeat the purpose of the territory units.

I would never consider claiming land which was not claimed before grieving.  If some builds on a territory that has not been claimed, they should accept the risk of losing their constructs.  If someone is prudent, they would only build either on land they already own or where they have permission to build from the owner.  Letting players effectively claim land by building on it would defeat the purpose of the territory units.

If I remember how such debates were sometimes held on an abstract level and if I read between the lines, I sometimes get the subjective impression that people - subconsciously or not - always slightly exaggerate no matter what side they're on. Proving a point is okay based on your preferences, but there could be a fine line sometimes where (according to my feeling) I think that sometimes people try to see their own preferences 'enforced' while considering anything else "wrong".
 
Simplified: PVPers argue in their way, strict non-PVPers do the same and eventually some mini-debates turn into repetitions of preferences. I mean, you're probably all arguing "past each other" if that makes sense. To my knowledge, we get hard safe zones on the starting planet, then on some moon(s) and then you get tiles any faction can claim, which do not translate to classic safe zones however and are contestable. I will try to pull up the according articles or sources in the next post when I have a bit more time at hands.
 
What I basically want to say to all sides is: relax a tad, you all will get your way. And I think that is awesome. Unite the builders, the creative people, the hardened, the vicious, the artists, whatever you can think of. Everyone will have some place in this universe.
 
However, if you (subconsciously or not) keep arguing in a way that your primary preference should be the leading example or focus of general gameplay, you'll naturally see others do the same for their viewpoints and it potentially ends in a repeating back and forth.
 
Not saying "stop debating here", just saying "try to keep this in mind here and there".
 
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I'd also not advise trying to downplay "the other side" depending on what side you are on, even if it might sometimes be hard. To those it might concern: Not everyone who is not into full risk and PVP at any time is a "carebear", their interests and strenghts might simply lie in other areas and you could even benefit from that somehow. The next ship you use in your Empire might be built by someone a hardcore PVPer might consider "carebear" because they prefer to work away in some safe zone without abstract or real interruptions, to give an example.
 
At the same time, one who prefers to avoid conflict should not assume it's automatically total anarchy and a 'gank fest' beyond any hard-coded safe zone borders. Or that someone who is generally open to attacking others is a bloodthirsty monster - some simply have other motivations or reasoning behind their attacks or actions. Chances are in the long run many spaces that cannot be claimed by a hardcoded safe zone device, but maybe by normal 'tile claimers' might be relatively or very safe since they get policed by the organizations and empires who run the space. Those might also want business and stability to make money and attract people, so they have people patrol. And even then... hey, in the end, abstract risk remains and isn't that somewhat exciting if you don't know what happens and who you could run into? If you transport something vital at the same time and have to go out, work together and get friends to help you transport things or hire a player group that offers this as service.
 
Or maybe TL;DR: It won't be that bad. See for yourself in the future and re-assess. But all kinds of players will have a place in this game and I like it. It will likely attract more people that way and we all benefit from a big community that interacts with each other on various levels.

Dual Universe is not an open world PVP game, it is an open world civilization/community building game. PVP is part of that yes, but is not the main driver in my opinion. PVP as I see it will be a means to an end wit he purpose of settling disputes if all else fails. (source: the DU website front page)
 
Now, obviously (and queue the proponents of this commenting) there will be those that just want their pewpew and so consider PVP to be the holy grail and expect PVP to be the main focus and driver for the game. I believe this will not be the case to a large extent because from what we know so far (large scale) PVP will not be as simple as jumping into a ship and raising hell.
 
Players will have access to tools that will create personal safe zones and sanctuary but those tools will be (very) expensive.

While General Reletavity would be an intriguing component in the game, I fail to see how it could possibly be implemented. To my understanding of time dilation based upon special relativity, the closer your velocity is to the speed of light, the slower your perception of time. So for this to be put accurately into the game, The player(s) closer to the speed of light will experience time slower than players who are accelerating slower or are not moving at all. It's a mind boggling concept for both the mechanics of the game and in real life. In order for this to be possible from my understanding, say for example a player is traveling to a distant planet say from Alioth and it takes about 20 to 30 minutes minimum to travel to that planet from Alioth assuming you're accelerating at the average speed of a spaceship. However, if you're traveling close to the speed of light it feels as though only about 30 seconds to a minute has elapsed as soon as you reach the planet. Now apply that to RL time and things get weird. The player moving close to the speed of light will feel as though only 30 seconds to a minute has gone by, while for everyone else 20-30 minutes. To put that in a actual time scenario:
 
Player going close to speed of light:
Left Alioth-12:30:00AM
Arrives at destination at 12:31:00AM (But it's actually 1:00:00PM)
 
Players not moving or going much slower:
Left Alioth-12:30:00AM
Arrives at destination at 1:00:00PM (Actual time)
 
Hopefully that made sense. But essentially what I'm getting at is it's as if the player going close to the speed of light is not only experiencing time dilation in the game, but in the real world aswell. Now I could be missing something here, overthinking it, making this way too complicated than what it needs to be or all of the above. But I'll say it again, this is based off of my understanding of how time dilation and general relativity is supposed to work from a theoretical standpoint, and as such I don't see how it can possibly be implemented in this fashion. If general relativity does become some sort of component in the game, I can imagine it'll be simplified or altered in some way to make it feasible.

I completely agree with Novaquark's goal of finding a moderate way between either extreme.  I have seen that as their attitude from the beginning and it is one of the main things that convinced me to back this project.
 
I like their plan for the three types of areas.  Having only one secure area around the Arkship, even though it really would be rather large, seemed restrictive.  It felt like it was just an introduction area and the real game started outside of.  Introducing the MSA eliminates that feeling.
 
The first time I read it, I missed one of the differences between ASA and MSA.  Nothing is allowed in the MSA until the territory is claimed.  This will prevent people from wandering in and doing random mining and terraforming, which make these areas more attractive.
 
I am very interested in finding out what the differences between Normal Territory Units and Sanctuary Territory Units will be.  I also wonder how the demand for Guarded Territories and Sanctuary Territories will be handled.  Since they serve different purposes, I think they should be handled differently.  
 
Those in the ASA will be the first things new players see, so I expect the demand for them to be very high, with those closer to the Arkship being considered more valuable.  It would make sense to have periodic auctions for the Guarded Territories.  This means someone could lose the territory they had if they were outbid, but it could increase the chances of these prime locations being used in a way that benefits the community.
 
I expect the MSA will be effectively unlimited, with new areas introduced as the old ones fill up, so everyone who wants one will be able to claim it.  They do not have even the limited resources the ASA does and  their location would only matter aesthetically.  I do not think there is the same need to compete for Santuary Territories.  Once someone claims one, they should be able to keep it as long as they want without being afraid they might lose it.  The only exception would be the claim should expire if the owner has not logged in for several months.
 
Several people have expressed concerns about secure areas being used as staging areas for attacks.  My suggestion for solving that would be to make any weapons that were in a secure area inoperable for some time after they leave it.  The length of time would depend on the number of weapons in one territory.  If there were few weapons, the delay would only be a second or two.  As the number of weapons increased, the delay would extend to several minutes and then several hours.  The delay have almost no effect on someone who carried a couple weapons for protection, but it would make storing an invasion fleet impractical, since it would need wait that time defenseless in a normal area before it could be used.  The explanation for the delay would the technology that inhibits the use of weapons in a secure area becomes overloaded if too many are concentrated in one territory.  When it is overloaded, it can not keep up with removing the inhibition when the weapons leave the area.
 
Finally, I have a couple questions about the protection bubbles.
It says protection bubbles are activated for 24-48 hours.  Does that mean it will be a random time within that range, that the owner can chose the time within that range or the developers still need to pick a time in that range? If attack notifications are sent, would they only go to the owner of a territory or  to everyone in it?  For example, it there was a trader visiting the territory, would they be notified so they could flee before the attack or would it be up to the territory owner to do that if they chose?

I'm sorry to say, but NPC's will not be a thing in this game. You must keep in mind, JC and Novaquark from the beginning have expressed that the end goal of the game they are attempting to create is to be a true MMO. Meaning thousands of real people, interacting with each other, on a single shard open sandbox universe.
So, NPCs even as background props would go against that idea. The intention is to have meaningful gameplay so that not only will you need a crew of real human players, but they would have a good meaningful reason to actually be crew on you're ship, and interact with the overall game.
 
If you had a ship so big that the bridge crew was 15 players, then there are a few things you should keep in mind. Here are a few examples.
 
1. Maintenance/repair - when a battle breaks out, you will need players to repair holes in the ship using voxels. An when systems get damaged like engines, shields, power systems, etc... you will need players to run to those areas and use scrap material to do repairs and bring those systems back online.
 
2. Pilots -  If you're ship is a carrier with Squadrons of fighters in the hangar bay. Well you going to need a crew of human pilots onboard the ship waiting to rush into battle at a moments notice.
 
4. Extra crew - You will also need extra people to do some of the grunt work during battle, like people to refuel and resupply ships that land in the hangar, otherwise the pilot will have to get out the fighter/ship and run to get supplies and do it themselves. Also, have people who can make runs to the cargo hold to get supplies for other crews who are to busy to do it, will also be useful and sometimes needed.
 
3. Turret Gunners - There are no automated weapon systems. So if you're ship has 100 cannons, then you'll need 100 players to fire, one for each cannon.
 
5. Security - Having security can't be under stated. You'll need someone patrolling the corridors of this big ship. Not only during battle to fight back against possible boarding, but also against spies who may have stowed away on the ship with plans to commit sabotage. As well as protect you're resurrection nodes because they will be a valuable target.
 
6. Bridge crew - An this doesn't include the bridge crew, and/or many commanders who will be over seeing tactical data and giving orders to the lower crew departments and teams via discord voice chat, or something similar. because the captain won't be able to manage a crew that big on there own.

So, my point is you won't need NPC's standing around pretending to do stuff for immersion. Because you will have tons of real players running around doing real meaningful things aboard you're ship. Thats called emergent gameplay, and its the kind of game that Novaquark are creating.

indeed, so a No from me, the goal is to get people together to do the stuff. So Or do a good recruitment job, or join another org to find the people.

Isn't the goal of the game to gather real people instead of displaying fake ones?

What everyone seems to overlook is that he whole idea of DU is that it will build communities and civilisation. As time progresses it will become less and less needed to mine Alioth as people will have established trade routes, will have come up with solutions to find and mine resources in less invasive ways and overall the ecosystem and economy will be at a point where a new player will not need to start with mining to get his first ship.
 
He or she can join a company excavating ores on other planets for a salary, taking the existing transport routes and ships to and from there. As the game progresses the needs and options for new players will change and evolve. In fact I believe that 2-3 years after release life for a new player will be easier and there will be much more lucrative and 'easy' ways to find work and make money to buy a ship or materials to design your own.

I think it is totally okay and manageable if, later on, resource availability on Alioth drops notably compared to before.
 
Because the community can step in and offer players exciting ways of interaction. Some offer to get you off the planet if you join them, others might demand you to work somewhere (Mining, assembly, etc) until the debt is paid. Others will simply demand a fee to get you off, like a taxi or shuttle service without any other things like work attached. And others will do it for free.
 
Not like literally any player theoretically and practically has to or must be able to build a ship without help. For a while, sure. Way later? If it can still be guaranteed, cool. But even then I'd argue for solo players that later, there will be fast or cheaper ways to get off Alioth if they just want to leave.
 
But in the end, time will tell. I just want to say that I think in this particular case of less resources available to all on a starter planet, it's fine and fun if the community steps in. Part of emergent game play for me.
 
I'm sure NQ will adjust if need be.
 

@Miamato
I get what you are saying and agree to a point. I would not call myself an expert and while my initial response may have been a bit strong I do believe that my idea of EVE is not unfair.
 
EVE has a different economy because it is mainly driven by one thing, ships being blown up. In DU there will be more, much more, factors that wil come into that and drive the market, things like product actually designed by players and unique to their 'business'. Combat will differ because there is no one person sitting in a carrier controlling every aspect of its operation (even when ships in EVE lore carry sometimes thouands of crew). Business will be different because DU will offer the opportunity to become a specialist in components like designing control mechanisms, detection and defense product and so on. Stuff that is always predefined in EVE by CCP. So yes, while we know little of the eventual meta game in DU, from what we know we can say it will be vastly different from EVE.
 
Roleplay and 'out of ship' content is real and exist in EVE sure. It manifests outside of the game though for the most part. My corp follows specific rules and definitions of what we do or do not do which creates a strong counter culture in EVE. That much is true so i guess to a point you are correct. What I do believe though is that in DU much of this will actually take place in game 'for real' and not be a fictional even that is only there on paper or in people roleplay mind.

I think DU actually taking some of this and building it right into the abilities for players to create in game is what sets it apart and makes if so interesting. So yes, I certainly agree DU takes many cues from EVE but not in a literal way. It does so for a number of other concepts which, again, I believe is what will eventually set the game apart as unique and 'special'
For me, Du will never replace EVE, there is too much I enjoy and practice in EVE that will never be possible in DU. But I am certain the opposite will also be the case so for me the two will co-exist quite nicely.. DU will for me pretty much replace games like Space Engineers.

We have no idea of what he Meta game for DU will be yet, it will be at least a year until we have somewhat of an idea. If you think you are describing the EVE metagame above you really do not understand EVE. For one economy, community, business and combat will be vastly different. Outside of Lore there is no component of civilian life in EVE nor is there any form of design, implementation of features and industry to speak of. EVE is basically 'Magic The Gathering in Space', your ship is basically your card deck.
 
From the very sparse info we have DU will much more like real life in most aspects and not just about spaceships, how you fit them and fly them. In fact combat and use of vessels will be vastly different, really without any compare.

Sure, but no amount of "alignment bumping" will damage the target. You still need to bring tacklers and enough firepower to do the job.
 
"Bumping" an antigrav platform to below 1000m altitude will have the potential to make it crash, without the "attackers" needing to fire a single shot. So the whole intended design of combat (knocking out the Pulsors) will be circumvented.
 
The solution is as simple and cheesy as the "bumping" tactic: make antigrav platforms immune to bumping !

Yup, the implementation of PVP will be a "watershed moment" for DU, because that's when everyone will find out how viable their intended play style will be.
 
Hard decisions will have to be made, either adapt or find a new game to play...

oh don't get me wrong - I'm all for stealth, camo and countermeasures (as explained in length) - but I don't think a simple "turn off my name/location" is the right way to do it.
Cause EVERYONE would do it - if it's a "free" countermeasure. It wouldn't hurt pvp so much imho if it was done that way but it would hurt Bountyhunters - and probably would kill their whole profession

Ahh nice, i missed or forgot that point. Then the roadmap including the extra functions we will get on organizations will be very interesting indeed.
 
Thank you for the reminder!
 

However, Novaquark has said when organizations are introduced into the game, the membership will be the same as the ones we are creating now, which would mean there will no need to invite existing members.
 
This is from the information that appears when creating an organization:
 
Once the game launches the organizations, the members and the information held here will be synchronised with the game world

Umm I really dont have to suggest anything when NQ has already stated and outlined its territory mechanics on both worlds, moons and asteroids.
 
Some people equate a PvP zone as "shit Im going to get killed" - nothing could be further from the truth. Most PvP zones will be 'controlled' by one faction or another. Provided you are with that controlling faction that zone can be very peaceful and safe. (I lived in nullsec in Eve for several years to the point that I considered highsec space to be the wild west).
 
And remember NQ has said on many occasions that they want to reproduce something like what happens in Eve Online, and that is combat oriented everywhere! At least in DU you get large safe zones for the fragile amongst us.
 
NQ is working on the balance of these safe zones. But when you have entire moons that are classified as Sanctuary Moons I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks DU is all PvP and pew pew!
 
I think NQ already has the balance right, they just have to decide on the size of the safe zone at the spawn point around the ship, which from memory is a 20km radius zone. And before you tell me thats not big enough remember that here on earth we can pack millions of people into such a space.
 
So you may ask me if I am a warmonger? Nopes. Im a builder who also knows when to stand up and fight for my turf. (I run a DU design group after all).
 
I would encourage NQ to keep going down the path its going and for those people that dont have a clue as to whats planned to use the search feature on the top right of the page (As well as look at NQ's youtube vids), to get a more thorough understanding of whats ahead
 

Now released:
 
Episode 2: The Artful Affirmative by Ben Fargo
 

(PDF, 1MB)

'In a series of short interviews, Outpost Zebra talks with the leaders of Dual Universe's most popular organisations. These ten-minute pieces discuss the past present and future various organisations with their respective leaders.
 
In the first of the articles, we talk with FleetAdmiralCoke of the Terran Union and his take on the organisation and Dual Universe.  
 
Feel free to take a look here: Terran Union Interview and leave a comment if you liked what you saw. 
 
 
 
Cheers, 
Oz Team.
'

Tortuga & Tales from Tortuga
Tortuga City is a community city building project in the world of DUAL UNIVERSE. The city is a place for trade, manufacturing and shady business. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum, villainy and dashing rogues. Separated from the shackles of organization affiliations and political agendas, the cyberpunk world of Tortuga with its skyscrapers and neon signs will be home to adventurers and agents, artists and militarists, traders and thiefs.
 
Tales from Tortuga is a series of fictionalized stories set in this world, created for the entertainment of the colonists of Alioth and abroad. Our adventure doesn't take place in the actual Tortuga of the game, it only takes inspirations from it. The stories you will read are not part of the official lore of DUAL UNIVERSE, it's a story within a story.
 
Tales from Tortuga will be released in episodes every two weeks on SpaceshipDrama.com and here in the forum. The episodes are written by different authors from the community and comprise of stand-alone stories that will tell a 12 issue long overarching plot. The cover art of the issues is also created by different artists.
 
You can get in contact with the writers and artists on the Tortuga City Discord.
 
- Already Released -
Episode 1: Do Not Go Gently by Kurock
 

(PDF, 1MB)
 
Episode 2: The Artful Affirmative by Ben Fargo
 

(PDF, 1MB)
 
Episode 3: The Hunter, And the Hunted by Cybrex
 

(PDF, 1MB)
 
- Coming on November 16th -
Episode 4: The Hunter, And the Hunted 2 by Cybrex
 
- Further planned issues -
Episode 5 by Einu Vei
Episode 6 by Einu Vei
Episode 7 by Ben Fargo
Episode 8 by Agilulf
Episode 9 by Lethys
Episode 10 by Kurock
Episode 11 by Empress
Episode 12 - The Finale
 
Series trailer as seen on Ark Central:
 
The Tales from Tortuga team hopes you all enjoy reading our stories!

Rest assured, that (In my not so humble opinion) there is far more depth to the possibilities in DU then in Eve. There will be a large group of players, and developers, who because of their love of building and creating will be working very hard to make a game that is fun for everyone.
 
There will also, of course, be some players who only care about making it fun for themselves. We can hope that the developers  continue working towards mechanics that allow for more success for the former then the later.