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General Relativistic Time

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Since we will be traveling and doing stuff at diferent speeds. We may have the relativistic time efect in the game, so the faster you travel the slower the time pass for you.

 

We may even create a new set of rules for the universe phisics

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13 hours ago, MaltoSigma said:

I'm too dumb to understand this idea.

Or I'm not high enough, sry if being too direct.

I'm just going off of movie knowledge so I could be pretty wrong on this.

 

As I understand it, the faster you go then the slower time moves for you. Say a minute at light speed takes an hour from that perception while a minute for someone not at light speed takes... a minute.

 

I'm not at all sure how we would implement this in the game or if it would be something like EVEs 'time dilation' which, isn't that something we're trying to avoid here?

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I wish people knew how this stuff would work inside a game.

You'd have to save every voxel modification with a timestamp if you wanted time travel if we're really going to add the whole Einstein stuff I ignored in school.

Also, from a gameplay perspective, "moving faster makes you time move slower" basically opens a whole can of worms of pointless problems.

If I wanted to play a physics simulator, I'd go outside.

Verdict: Just because Star Kek has it doesn't mean Dual Galaxy should.

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I dont think any craft will be moving anywhere near light speed.

 

Jumps across systems by jump bridges/star gates are hyperspace jumps through space time / warping of space. Technically in these situations the ship doesnt move - it bends space time instead. Because of this there also shouldnt be any relativistic repercussioms.

 

At least that's the way i think it works, i could be wrong.  ;)

 

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There is no need to save Timestamp on voxel because they there is no time travel (as in reality)

The implications of this are that you can travel faster than light from your perspective so travel is faster, ( for a photon , "light" there is no time so from its perspective he travels at infinite speed)

 

One reason to implement this is that the things that happens in a system that travel faster happen slower that in a system in a "normal speed".

So say you are in a nation ship ( huge ship that holds thousands of people) that travels at normal speed, events, phisics and other time related events happens at normal speed. If you acelerate to 0.87c you will play in slow motion at 0.5 the normal game speed. this efect is local.

At first it may look weird but it opens time preservation mechanisms to the game. it may be irrelevant at first but the implementation of it is simple, yust multiply the main time variable * ScuareRoot of( 1- (V^2/c^2))  Nothing more has to be done in code

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Raising said:

There is no need to save Timestamp on voxel because they there is no time travel (as in reality)

The implications of this are that you can travel faster than light from your perspective so travel is faster, ( for a photon , "light" there is no time so from its perspective he travels at infinite speed)

 

One reason to implement this is that the things that happens in a system that travel faster happen slower that in a system in a "normal speed".

So say you are in a nation ship ( huge ship that holds thousands of people) that travels at normal speed, events, phisics and other time related events happens at normal speed. If you acelerate to 0.87c you will play in slow motion at 0.5 the normal game speed. this efect is local.

At first it may look weird but it opens time preservation mechanisms to the game. it may be irrelevant at first but the implementation of it is simple, yust multiply the main time variable * ScuareRoot of( 1- (V^2/c^2))  Nothing more has to be done in code

 

 

So basically, you want traveling to be as big as a nuance as possible?

Plus, if time were to "speed" up/down by any multipliers bigger than 0, we would most likely still experience time the same way, since our synapses (haha buzzwords baybe!) will also be sped up/down.

You just want production elements to produce slower?

I genuinely have no idea. Space Engineers already has this- just blow up stuff the faster you go.

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I agree that is not like a feature much people want, but it can add a nice taste to the game.  For the traveling nuance, I dont think traveling this way is the designed way the point is if you are traveling at speed of light for whatever reason you cant do anything until you reach your destination so you cant  realy play since the player is outside the game( not freezed) and its character is freezed.

 

It may have little impact on the game, apart from "DU has relativity implemented" . It can justify future humankind expansion.

Thanks for your replys

 

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On 9/16/2018 at 4:24 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

It's a fun idea.

 

But in a game where there are only other real players, wouldn't someone need to actually time travel, for this to work?

 

Lol,  yeah, they would have to.  Not sure how I could build fast enough to keep up with that kind of time dilation if its only an illusion.

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On 9/17/2018 at 12:24 AM, Atmosph3rik said:

It's a fun idea.

 

But in a game where there are only other real players, wouldn't someone need to actually time travel, for this to work?

 

No, no one will need o be able to time travel, if you play moving at 99.5% speed of light your sheep and character will look like in a slow motion because the time dilation playing 10 times slower.

If this is something that can add some depth to the game, I am not sure but surely will get some atention and someone will take a use of it. Implementing this wont be hard at all, just add a multiplication to the delta time of  entities traveling fast so they move slower (not theyr external speed but theyr speed inside the spaceship).

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6 hours ago, Raising said:

No, no one will need o be able to time travel, if you play moving at 99.5% speed of light your sheep and character will look like in a slow motion because the time dilation playing 10 times slower.

If this is something that can add some depth to the game, I am not sure but surely will get some atention and someone will take a use of it. Implementing this wont be hard at all, just add a multiplication to the delta time of  entities traveling fast so they move slower (not theyr external speed but theyr speed inside the spaceship).

 

But if you're traveling in slow motion from your own perspective.  Then you would also have to be traveling in slow motion from my perspective too.  Otherwise we wouldn't be playing in the same game world anymore.

 

You would be playing a game where you are already at your destination, exploring a planet or something.

 

And I would be playing a game where I am seeing a ship flying past me.

 

Every time someone traveled faster then light the game would need to spin off another single player reality to maintain all the different virtual timelines.

 

It's just not possible without real time travel, or turning the game into a very complicated single player time travel simulator.

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1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

But if you're traveling in slow motion from your own perspective.  Then you would also have to be traveling in slow motion from my perspective too.  Otherwise we wouldn't be playing in the same game world anymore

This is exactly how you spect to see someone (you are stationary) in a spaceship that is traveling almost at light speed ( If you where able to see) .

 

 

1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

You would be playing a game where you are already at your destination, exploring a planet or something.

 

And I would be playing a game where I am seeing a ship flying past me.

No, i am still in the ship,
Let describe a posible travel.
A ship travel from one a planet to another at 99.5% of light speed, this produce a X0.1 time dilation efect
the distance betwen planets is 10 hour/light so from outside the sheep we see the ship takes 10 hours to arrive () dont count the 0.5% the sheep is slower than light for this for simplicity.


Now. mi character is in that ship. from his perspective the trip takes 10hour * 0.1(time dilation) = one hour.
but i am the player, i am outside of the ship so i am not subject to the time dilation so I see the trip last 10 hours, if I peek inside the ship mi character is moving in slow motion because for every 10 seconds I live he lives 1 second.

 

1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Every time someone traveled faster then light the game would need to spin off another single player reality to maintain all the different virtual timelines.

 

It's just not possible without real time travel, or turning the game into a very complicated single player time travel simulator.

 

You cant travel faster than light. we can transform this in a relativity  explanation, there is a lot to explain and asimilate, but I think is outside the scope of the forum.

 

Thanks for the anwsers

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5 minutes ago, Raising said:

No, i am still in the ship,
Let describe a posible travel.
A ship travel from one a planet to another at 99.5% of light speed, this produce a X0.1 time dilation efect
the distance betwen planets is 10 hour/light so from outside the sheep we see the ship takes 10 hours to arrive () dont count the 0.5% the sheep is slower than light for this for simplicity.  

 

Now. mi character is in that ship. from his perspective the trip takes 10hour * 0.1(time dilation) = one hour.
but i am the player, i am outside of the ship so i am not subject to the time dilation so I see the trip last 10 hours, if I peek inside the ship mi character is moving in slow motion because for every 10 seconds I live he lives 1 second.

 

 

But what will the character inside the ship be doing during the 9 hours it takes for their version of this trip to catch up with the players outside the ship?

 

If the player inside the ship arrives at their destination after an hour.  How can they also be inside the ship still traveling, from everyone else's perspective?

 

🐑😀

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7 hours ago, Raising said:

No, no one will need o be able to time travel, if you play moving at 99.5% speed of light your sheep and character will look like in a slow motion because the time dilation playing 10 times slower.

If this is something that can add some depth to the game, I am not sure but surely will get some atention and someone will take a use of it. Implementing this wont be hard at all, just add a multiplication to the delta time of  entities traveling fast so they move slower (not theyr external speed but theyr speed inside the spaceship).

What happens if you travel back to your point of origin though?  You should be hundreds of years into the future compared to the people who never left that planet.  And the game won't be able to facilitate that.  How will they make a planet look that much more developed for only YOU?  Who is going to build it up from what it was before?  You would REALLY have to travel in time to make it work.

 

Well there is one way I could see this working.  If DU ever finds they need to limit the amount of players playing at one time b/c of server load, then they could implement separate shards.  Then when someone time travels, the timeline could split off and port them over to another shard.  It would still be full of complications though.  It would have to be a one way trip and they would have to limit the number of times you could to it to the number of shards they implement.  But it would be a totally different reality when you got there and you would loose all communication and connection to the old shard forever.  If you travel back in time from there, the past would be different too. 

 

I doubt we'll ever see DU address time travel.  Heck, even the most talented physicists in the world cant agree on what time actually is and how it works.  So its really asking too much for game developers to deal with it in a game like this.  We'll get FTL one day through in the way of star gates and maybe natural wormholes or something like that instead.  Then they can skirt   around the issue of time travel all together.

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the player is not traveling, the character is. the player is an observer of the character and is not affected itself from time dilation

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1 minute ago, Dhara said:

What happens if you travel back to your point of origin though?  You should be hundreds of years into the future compared to the people who never left that planet.  And the game won't be able to facilitate that.  How will they make a planet look that much more developed for only YOU?  Who is going to build it up from what it was before?  You would REALLY have to travel in time to make it work.

 

Well there is one way I could see this working.  If DU ever finds they need to limit the amount of players playing at one time b/c of server load, then they could implement separate shards.  Then when someone time travels, the timeline could split off and port them over to another shard.  It would still be full of complications though.  It would have to be a one way trip and they would have to limit the number of times you could to it to the number of shards they implement.  But it would be a totally different reality when you got there and you would loose all communication and connection to the old shard forever.  If you travel back in time from there, the past would be different too. 

 

I doubt we'll ever see DU address time travel.  Heck, even the most talented physicists in the world cant agree on what time actually is and how it works.  So its really asking too much for game developers to deal with it in a game like this.  We'll get FTL one day through the way of star gates and maybe natural wormholes or something like that instead.  Then they can skirt   around the issue of time travel all together.

 

I am not talking about time travel. not at all

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8 minutes ago, Raising said:

 

I am not talking about time travel. not at all

Lol, no worries.  I would want to make this topic be about something else by now too. 

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3 hours ago, Raising said:

the player is not traveling, the character is. the player is an observer of the character and is not affected itself from time dilation

I disagree with that.  We do not observe the character.  We observe a virtual world from the point of view of the character.  Since the player is observing from the point of view of the character, if the character is moving at relativistic speeds, time in the virtual world should appear to pass normally for the player, but actually be at a different rate than other players.  That is why people are saying this suggestion is impossible.  Of course, the player is not actually in the virtual world, but saying the player should see the world slow down because of that is like saying the view on the screen should not move when the character moves because the player is not actually moving.

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On 9/22/2018 at 2:35 AM, Ben Fargo said:

I disagree with that.  We do not observe the character.  We observe a virtual world from the point of view of the character.  Since the player is observing from the point of view of the character, if the character is moving at relativistic speeds, time in the virtual world should appear to pass normally for the player, but actually be at a different rate than other players.  That is why people are saying this suggestion is impossible.  Of course, the player is not actually in the virtual world, but saying the player should see the world slow down because of that is like saying the view on the screen should not move when the character moves because the player is not actually moving.

:O, I see your point. The camera is traveling too at that speed. 

Well If  is implemented as I have said it will easy but unacurate in a sense. But implementing it hte other way has masive consecuences so is virtually imposible.

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I had a good laugh at this.

 

Actually. ANY moment ingame you travel in time.

As no user is 100% synched the same with all other users and actions that have been done in the timeframe you observed.

 

So technically, any mmorpg you play is a "time maschiene".

 

Actually makeing this ingame based on speeds, you probably will experience a LARGER dilution in that desynch value. As when player A and B run at each other with max speed. Both will be desynched larger from each other then player C that travels alongside B ... but with half the speed.

 

For Player C it will look like A and B will hit each other straight on. While minuscle changes actualy make them scitter past each other by a small margin. Confusing Player C grandiously.

 

Or simply said ... lag.

 

 

So you want the game to lag more then it might do with it's technical limitations, if you fly fast?

yrgwj.jpg

 

That's a first i heard anyone ask for that.

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