Saul Retav

I personally don't care/want "skins". I'd like the armour to reflect the gear you're wearing, so that you know who you're facing when fighting, instead of praying RNG.
But anyway, keep in mind that 3d models and textures take away a lot of time from the artists, so I'd like better more elements, fauna, flora ,... than cosmetic stuff that add nothing to the gameplay.

You sir sound like a sore loser here lol.
 
From NQ regarding a similar discussion...
"Hi everyone,
  There is currently no plan of creating cosmetics related to Hello Kitty, My Little Pony on any related furry stuff.   Two reasons for that: - We have so many things to make having a higher priority before that. It couldn't be a priority for years, even after official release. - While we don't plan to restrict the creativity freedom of the players on this topic, we have currently no plan of creating such cosmetics because it simply doesn't fit with Novaquark's vision of the game.    We understand that some of you might be disappointed by this news, but as we never promised anything about this in the past and as we don't think this kind of cosmetics is compatible with the immersion we are aiming for (but not enforcing), there's very little chance this decision will be reversed.   Regarding symbols like the Swastika:  Although origins of this symbol can be found in Hinduism and Buddhism with no evil meaning, as it has been promoted by the Nazis in Europe and used as their emblem, this has been a symbol a lot of people don't want to see anymore in Europe because as it has been now tied to the concept of real life genocid. Letting such kind of symbols propagating in the game would be interpreted as promotion of the Nazism or to the very least a certain complicity with it. That's why we won't create cosmetics for such symbol, and we will take action if a player spots such thing in-game and report it.   Best Regards, Nyzaltar."

The Devs however have unilaterally decided that aliens/furries are not acceptable, because it does not fit their vision for the game. Game Design is as much an art (arguably more so) than it is a commercial product, the intent of the artist can matter more than audience demand here.
 
I believe that we can make some assumptions about what the Devs will find doesn't fit their artistic vision. A player stating that Wizard Robes or Dark-Age Platemail won't make it into the game isn't just a matter of opinion, it is a fair assumption that the devs wouldn't want to include something like that.
 
The pole itself is pretty flawed here though, since there will likely be a key distinction between Craftable Armor (functional) and Cosmetic Skins (nonfunctional) in the game. Polling vaguely about two different game elements as if they are one, and then asking players to choose if they should behave one way or the other way will create confusion, not useful data.

This does not change anything though. The system can be applied.
 
 
Example. Let's say the LOD range in which you load-in 3D Mesh model is 50000 km (just go with it, oit's a placeholder number). You will be seeing a pixel at best of an object, with a 1x1 LOD texture on it. Now, zooming in, would only "project" your POV away from your avata nd towards where you look at, thus "icreasing" you LOD range (or reducing the distance between you and the object) thus icnreasing its resolution.
 
Notice, the delayed updates happen between your playfield and the playfield in the distance. It means that anythign past your "real-time grid" is streamd to you at a slower rate. That is for VAST distances, not something that's within the horizon of a planet. NQ made this tech so they can have asynchronous co-existence, of playfields (plaents, moons, etcetera). Scoping is still possible.
 
 
So, in other words, for space, you can still ZOOM-in on a construct incrementally, to takea better look at it, if you can't pick it up on IFF or RADAR or you are hiding from it via any mean possible. Zoomign in will only focus on a part of your FOV, then enhance the selected section by project ing your POV forward thus increasing resolution. You'd still be watching a delayed screnshot on the streaming of information on your "Skybox" but you could tell details now.
 
 
 
 
This is an interesting idea, but again, we have an issue. Planets are instances mreo r oless, the atmoshpere is he portal to them and ywhat yo usee below is a technical trick, coding witchcraft. So, for observation satellites, like I explaine d above, it depens if upper orbit is part of a planet's palyfield, minus the gravity "bubble" of a planet.
 
Mind you though, if you mean like "radar" towers in space, they would follow the same udpate rules as with plaeers. You are streamd information regarding distanct objects. IF you wewre to scan an area with a radar and lightsppeed took 15 minutes to reach that area (in other words, how long  it would take for informatino to update from your locatino to that loiacation in the system) then you'd take half an hour to ping the location and get a ping as aresponse on rdar. Unless NQ introduces cheat mechanics like "RADARs" that work with FTL, thus making the server tech obsolete, if detectino mechines can see faster than the server updates, but given they said that "if you see a ship i nfar space, it may not be there when you get to it", I 'm only assuming it's not how it works - plus, their server tech doesn't work well with "real-time updates between distant (and I mean 15 light mnutes distant) objects.
 
 
As for scopes, you mean like Sniper Rifle Scopes? Cause at 200 meters sniping ( a modest range for snipers) you'll need a mark II Visual Reckon, aka scope, cause Mark I model Eyeball, is not that good at zooming in, so yeah, I want to see scopes as well, I also want to see thermal sights and night vision scopes, that have certain armors as coutner , as I suggested in a topic I made in the past.
 
I could also see NQ including "aim down sights" as a way for having "better hit-chance" with weapons, at the cost of speed (which makes you easier to hit). 
 
And before anyone loses their mind and starts spewing "but diz gamez not FPS Twerk, u dond sud say diz", long-range, high dmg, low rate of ffire and inefective at short range = sniper rifle. You don't need Pro MLG No scope 360 Halo Jump to have sniper gameplay. A probablilistic model like EVE's makes the system even more rewarding for shooting people from a distance, especially if yo uhave people like "spotters" to give you range and better tracking on your hits. Just... just don't expect to move like a balelerina while murdering people from 500 meters away, you need to remain still to do dmage in a probablistic model like this.

*update* (added orgs with at least 30 members (Vortrex, AEF, DUA) and their connections, updated Void - Dual Secure connection)
 

 
The political divisions are becoming more apparent now...

Someone needs to take away my Final Cut Pro before I hurt somebody 

*update* (added orgs with at least 30 members (Vortrex, AEF, DUA) and their connections, updated Void - Dual Secure connection)
 

 
The political divisions are becoming more apparent now...

TVR is pretty much disliked by everyone that is active around the community. Long history of trolling and spamming in other orgs discords and other general bad behaviour. If you want to know more about orgs i suggest you join the DU explorers DU Discord. Most people hang around there.

I may start an underground terrorist cult that actively works to dismantle society from the inside out, preventing interstellar colonization at all costs...

"Humankind is a plague. They were a plague back on Earth, ravaging the planet, polluting the water and the air, bringing thousands of species to extinction! And they'll continue to be a plague. First, they'll strip Alioth of all her beauty, mining, burning, and pillaging until there's nothing left but a dead husk. Then, they'll move on to the next Alioth and do the same. Again and again and again and again! Their appetite for destruction is limitless and they will continue to consume the galaxy until there's nothing left. Unless... we can stop them."

"FOR EARTH!!" 

Right, you're totally right in that "automation should and has to be restricted..." I don't think that means it should be restricted to such a degree that automated mining becomes impossible. And I find it hard to believe that people enjoy doing a task like mining day in and day out... but I'm not other people, I'm myself, so I'll try and understand that sentiment. What if the less common, more valuable, minerals were only found near the hot mantle of planets and due to the complexity of avoiding lava pockets and such, mining by hand would be the best option? Could that appease both the automated and manual miner types?
 
 
 
 
I like a couple of those suggestions, and as you said, mining automation (as well as any other form of automation) would need to be balanced through sensible restrictions.
 
I'm regretting the title of this post. I should have focused on mining and not used the word "free..." Oh well.

No one said anything about infinite resources. Although, technically resources will be infinite because the universe itself is infinite. You missed the point.
 
 
I'm not suggesting anything too drastic. Using the phrase "free automation scripting" was a mistake on my part. Everything should have it's limits, but for a science fiction game those limits should at least try and be realistic (note: only being able to mine by hand is highly unrealistic).
 
 
Mining "24/7" for an individual will be impossible anyways (due to server restrictions, automated scripts won't be able to run without an authorized player present).
 
Let's forget combat automation for now.
 
The ability to use automated industrial processes for mining is in no way "against emergent gameplay." If carelessly implemented, yeah, it would suck (almost as much as mining everything by hand). But it can be implemented thoughtfully, in a way that supports emergent gameplay and discourages automation abuse.
 
 
Was the problem in your Rust example really automation, or the result of an infinite resource (crude oil)? If the clans had run out of oil they'd have had to employ a different strategy and, one way or another, be vulnerable to attack, right? It does sound like a messy situation and I'm genuinely curious as to what the contributing factors were.
 
I was following along with your last paragraph thinking, "6 capital ships per day between 17 planets united under a common alliance? Heck yes! That level of interstellar warfare and player organization would be awesome!!" until I saw, "without a player spending a minute mining..." You see, I think you're missing the point. There would be players mining. Maybe not the millions of miners that might be required to keep up with that sort of operation if they were limited to mining by hand. But instead, at that point in the game, you'd have a bunch of players all working together in mining corporations, assembling, disassembling, repairing, and transporting mining equipment; transporting and storing fuel for the equipment; scripting, rescripting, and troubleshooting the equipment; transporting, storing, and selling mined minerals. And those are just the technical jobs I can come up with off the top of my head; you'd also need managers to orchestrate and organize the employees, and, if the org was big enough, you'd need upper-level managers to organize and direct the lower-level managers. That's what I see as "emergent gameplay" and player cooperation.
 
To achieve this level of emergence would probably require certain game mechanisms:
Frequently used elements eventually requiring repair/replacement. Abiding, to a degree, by the law of conservation of energy and the law of conservation of mass (AKA "no infinite material or energy sources"). And there's probably something else, but it's 1:20am and I'm going to bed.

As far as scripting weapons fire, is it expected that in times of war a commercial hub is always going to have players manning the anti-ship batteries just in case there's an attack?
 
Automation would also have it's vulnerabilities with the future hacking mechanics that'll be introduced. It would be a bad idea to build a fully automated facility when a skilled hacker may be able to shut it down himself. That would be a result of competing organizations trying to gain an upper hand, of course.

This is a sci-fi universe that, as far as I can tell, is focused on the development of interstellar, complex, player-based societies. Why wouldn't you have automated mining?!

The devs have said that automated mining will probably not be an option. As a student of business and economics, here's what I think:
 
ABSTRACT:
Limiting script automation for both mining and weapons fire will greatly limit the capacity for economic growth and in-game innovation.
The mining industry, for example, will start out with individuals mining for minerals and directly selling them to other players or on an open market. It will eventually evolve into a number of mining corporations that will be able to provide minerals more cheaply through an organized workforce and semi-automated processes. This is inevitable, as it should be. But why limit the mining industry to this level of business innovation? By disallowing further automation, yes, the market for mundane repetitive tasks like mining by hand will be preserved. But what would happen to the broader job market in a simulated economy where automation is unregulated? It would expand exponentially.
How would automated mining exponentially expand economic growth and job availability? Well, the whole purpose of automation is to reduce labor costs, to reduce the price of goods (raw minerals, in this case), so that, in a competitive free market economy, businesses can stay... competitive. Inevitably, reducing the price of raw minerals allows other businesses, further up the chain of production, to increase production and lower their prices (competitive market, remember). These reduced prices further up the chain of production lead to increased demand and, therefore, new market opportunities.
 
STORY TIME:
John Smith is a miner. He mines steel all day for Mineral Corp, gets a commission based on how much steel he mines, and Mineral Corp sells the steel to spaceship manufacturing facilities. One day Mineral Corp decides to cut costs by using automated mining drones. Nooooo!!!! Curse you Human Ingenuity!!
 
Let's look at what just happened:
 
In order to cut costs, mining corporations are now buying automated mining drones. This new demand for drones is providing jobs for programmers, industrial designers, manufacturers, and even truckers (to transport all the extra minerals that are being more cheaply produced and are increasingly in demand by all these industries)!
 
Back to John Smith:
 
John lost his job to robots. The Luddite fear that soulless computers will replace all the honest employees has come true! *cough cough* But when John's at home, drinking away his sorrows with some Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, he opens up the classifieds and is shocked to see hundreds of jobs available that weren't there yesterday! Not only jobs related to the production of mining drones, but many seemingly unrelated jobs!
 
Where did these other jobs come from?
 
They came from the steel being cheaper. Businesses that use that steel for product production, like spaceships and buildings, can now sell their products more cheaply. Having cheaper spaceships increases the demand for spaceships because more people can afford them. In order to meet that increased demand, spaceship manufacturers must increase their production by hiring more employees (new jobs! Yay!). So now, even though less people are mining by hand, more people are building spaceships (as well as countless other things)!
 
John Smith may not be mining anymore, but he has a new job now, that pays more, and he can enjoy a cheaper cost of living thanks to those beautiful automated mining drones.
 
BASIC FORMULA:
Automation = reduced cost.
Reduced cost + competition = reduced price.
Reduced price = increased demand.
Increased demand = increased production.
Increased production = increased job availability.
Automation + competition = increased job availability.
 
Can we please have free automation scripting?
(I may touch on automated weapons-fire later)

The devs have said that automated mining will probably not be an option. As a student of business and economics, here's what I think:
 
ABSTRACT:
Limiting script automation for both mining and weapons fire will greatly limit the capacity for economic growth and in-game innovation.
The mining industry, for example, will start out with individuals mining for minerals and directly selling them to other players or on an open market. It will eventually evolve into a number of mining corporations that will be able to provide minerals more cheaply through an organized workforce and semi-automated processes. This is inevitable, as it should be. But why limit the mining industry to this level of business innovation? By disallowing further automation, yes, the market for mundane repetitive tasks like mining by hand will be preserved. But what would happen to the broader job market in a simulated economy where automation is unregulated? It would expand exponentially.
How would automated mining exponentially expand economic growth and job availability? Well, the whole purpose of automation is to reduce labor costs, to reduce the price of goods (raw minerals, in this case), so that, in a competitive free market economy, businesses can stay... competitive. Inevitably, reducing the price of raw minerals allows other businesses, further up the chain of production, to increase production and lower their prices (competitive market, remember). These reduced prices further up the chain of production lead to increased demand and, therefore, new market opportunities.
 
STORY TIME:
John Smith is a miner. He mines steel all day for Mineral Corp, gets a commission based on how much steel he mines, and Mineral Corp sells the steel to spaceship manufacturing facilities. One day Mineral Corp decides to cut costs by using automated mining drones. Nooooo!!!! Curse you Human Ingenuity!!
 
Let's look at what just happened:
 
In order to cut costs, mining corporations are now buying automated mining drones. This new demand for drones is providing jobs for programmers, industrial designers, manufacturers, and even truckers (to transport all the extra minerals that are being more cheaply produced and are increasingly in demand by all these industries)!
 
Back to John Smith:
 
John lost his job to robots. The Luddite fear that soulless computers will replace all the honest employees has come true! *cough cough* But when John's at home, drinking away his sorrows with some Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, he opens up the classifieds and is shocked to see hundreds of jobs available that weren't there yesterday! Not only jobs related to the production of mining drones, but many seemingly unrelated jobs!
 
Where did these other jobs come from?
 
They came from the steel being cheaper. Businesses that use that steel for product production, like spaceships and buildings, can now sell their products more cheaply. Having cheaper spaceships increases the demand for spaceships because more people can afford them. In order to meet that increased demand, spaceship manufacturers must increase their production by hiring more employees (new jobs! Yay!). So now, even though less people are mining by hand, more people are building spaceships (as well as countless other things)!
 
John Smith may not be mining anymore, but he has a new job now, that pays more, and he can enjoy a cheaper cost of living thanks to those beautiful automated mining drones.
 
BASIC FORMULA:
Automation = reduced cost.
Reduced cost + competition = reduced price.
Reduced price = increased demand.
Increased demand = increased production.
Increased production = increased job availability.
Automation + competition = increased job availability.
 
Can we please have free automation scripting?
(I may touch on automated weapons-fire later)

Yeah, good point. I guess I'll just wait it out.
 
See you guys in 5+ years then! lol

Yeah, you can always try and sell it for a little less than you bought it, to come away with something. Although, considering this circumstance of yours has only just come up, you never know what might randomly come up again later that might allow you to play it! I'd say keep it. EVE online has been around for a very long time. I suspect this game will as well; even if you can't play for the next five years, after those five years are up you can still join and maybe look pretty elite/legendary with your kickstarter gear! It's all up to you, but I'd say keep it.

Buying gametime (sub) will be around 10-13€ per month.
 
One DAC will be around 15-18€. You can either use that as one month of game time or sell it for ingame credits on the markets ingame. That's why they are more expensive.
 
It's cheaper to just buy a sub. People who want more in-game credits can buy DACs and sell them to you. So you can play for free if you earn enough in-game money

As a future developer in Dual Universe, the idea of DACs as payment seems like an interesting prospect.  But the more I think about it, the more it seems like a bit of a d-bag move on the part of the developers.  I don't want this to be an overtly negative post, but bear with me..
 
I intend to be creating a whole lot of stuff in game, ships, defenses, tools, etc. with full Lua scripting to back them all up.  These things will take a TON of time to develop if you hope to have a decent result from them.  However, with the Dual Access Coupons being the only *real* form of payment I can hope to receive in game, it kind of feels like a bit of a face slap.  Think about it. 
 
I spend 25 hours working on a super awesome engine control module with advanced auto-maneuvering for someone who requested it custom.  Joe Space Captain goes to the Dual website and buys himself two DACs to give to me as payment for the work I did. Great, I got this month and next in game for free as payment.  = 30 Euro savings or whatever for me.
 
Now, instead of a custom job, I make a super awesome base turret blueprint that I sell on open market.  Let's say 250 people buy it at 500 credits each, and I trade those 125,000 credits for 5 DACs that people are selling on the market.  What happened here?  I now have 5 free months in game, which I may or may not ever use, but NovaQuark just made 75 euro in real money cash for all of that work that I did. Once I start collecting DACs like candy because now 10,000 users have realized how good it is and have purchased my super-awesome turret, NQ is rolling in the money for work I did, and those DACs I accrued have become virtually useless to me.
 
Obviously, I made assumptions the monthly fee is 12 euro and DAC are 15 euro.  Actual cost doesn't really matter.
 
The more I make and sell on market, the more trivial the DACs will become. Meanwhile, NQ makes tons of constant value cash on my work. My alternative would be to just hoard the in-game currency, which has equally nil real-world value.
 
I have to imagine that with this system of payments, serious developers and builders will eventually just start dealing outside of the game and make contracts to do in-game work with payments in real cash.  That's the only way it would actually be worth it to build things over the long term.  All of the really good stuff in game will only be accessible through various user-run black markets outside of game, with in-game market only used for trivial purchases just to get items transferred and to earn the in-game money needed for resource accumulation.
 
I could be wrong, but that's what I foresee happening. What are your thoughts? 

The complexity and expense of TU's will basically limit their use to large-ish organizations which will lead to political borders as in RL. But will there be some mechanicism that allows "private ownership" of land? That is, if an organization wants to rent out smaller parcels of its 1km TU to individuals or companies (e.g. a government allowing private land ownership within it's borders), what might that look like in-game? It seems like there should be some kind of mechanism that facilitates that, right?

You mixed something there:
 
Tradehubs will allow people to make money (cut 5% of all earnings for example). With that money they can buy larger shields to construct and with the revenue they can pay for the materials needed to run the shield

Indeed, as I understand reasoning behind this decision, lack of automation having a LUA in-game at the same time, is kind of contradiction.  I am sure this could be balanced if allowed. Many of you had some ideas already. Slower mining, lower yield, no skill progress when using it etc. 
 
What really concerns me is, that I came across  dev blog (don't quite remember what subject exactly) and over there authors were trying to convince us this game will be balanced for players that play around 2-3h per day without a need to be attached to the screen 24/7. 
 
Surely automation could actually help to achieve that goal, by not giving advantage to kids or students that have plenty of spare time on their hands
This is a first time I feel a bit disappointed there is no more thought put into this area other just cut it out because it's easier.
 
The fact you need to be present for scripts to run is good enough to prevent some mass mining operations anyway. 
 
Anyway, I am sure people creativity will not stop here and where is an opportunity to take advantage people will try to exploit the system with given tools anyway.
Put few crew members in front of the ship with drills on auto click and program the ship via LUA and you have a semi-automatic drill. Your colleagues can go to work while you take a shift

Setting up small land parcels, basically defining a volume that someone can build in is a a must otherwise its going to be really hard to have "cities" in any meaningful way.
 
You could even have a hierarchical system where owners of a building/ship/station could define spaces for individual room/apartments/warehouses that could be rented out.
 
I hope that NQ is thinking on the same wavelength here, it seems like something that would be coveded by the "Rights and duties managment system"
 
Everyone is going to want a apartment/house/warehouse in the ark zone so there is going to be a serious need to be able to efficiently subdivide and rent out areas

The complexity and expense of TU's will basically limit their use to large-ish organizations which will lead to political borders as in RL. But will there be some mechanicism that allows "private ownership" of land? That is, if an organization wants to rent out smaller parcels of its 1km TU to individuals or companies (e.g. a government allowing private land ownership within it's borders), what might that look like in-game? It seems like there should be some kind of mechanism that facilitates that, right?

Um... no. They definitely should not be that involved in deciding who gets land and who doesn't. If they go that route, I would pretty much quit immediately, as that defeats most of what they stated this game is about - player-driven content.