wizardoftrash

You have the burden of proof all backwards there. It is their obligation to tell players what WILL be in the game, it is not their obligation to disclose what is NOT in the game. The faxt that they went ahead and did that anyways is exemplary, not obligatory.

It occured to me in someone else's thread (that I didn't want to hijack with this discussion) but man, a voxel SKATE PARK for hover bikes would be fantastic!
 
Especially since you can't actually crash in this game (so far), it would be hilarious, and hopefully would be buggy as hell. it would make my life complete to do a sweet backflip on my space bike while griefers are trying to kill me and steal my bike.

Btw since I haven't seen it yet, this picture is in their art gallery so I assume they will make it:

Ok, I think I understand what is going on here. I'll bring a fresh perspective to the table. Here is my guess.
 
CvC pvp is not on the table as a launch feature because they want to hire someone who's main job will be building CvC. To have enough money to hire that person, they need to hit their stretch goal.
 
This may not be a matter of allocation of time here. In theory a small team COULD reallocate their time to develop CvC before other game features assuming they all havr the same versatile skillset, but that is not realistic. Right now, you probably have team members contributing to the game in the areas that they specialize in, and that skillset is enough for the game with its current launch features to be out on-time in its current budget.
 
But lets say it will take one of those members twice or three times as long to develop the CvC as someone who could be brought in and is already experienced in those kinds of mechanics? Not only is reallocating that dev's time groselly inefficient, but the dev wouldn't be working on the parts of the game that they are good at, and possibly wouldn't be doing to job they thoight they signed up for. If Dev A loves working on multiplayer code, Dev B loves working on the building engine, and Dev C loves and specializes in building world gen algorythms, how do you think Dev C would like it if the owner went and said
 
"hey Dev C, the fans want CvC combat more than they want new biomes. 3/4th of our projected biomes will now be a stretch goal, you are going to build CvC for the next two years"
 
If I were Dev C, i might not be working for them anymore. They might be fixed on hiring someone to build CvC because their current team simply don't want to build it first. Its not our game, its their game.
 
Ok, so lets pretend for a second that the game gets finded (likely) and they don't hit their first stretch goal (unlikely).
You are concerned that they won't be able to test CvC during alpha and beta of it isn't added till launch (true) and that they won't be able to test it after launch (false). Deff harder to test, but not impossible.
 
Combat simulators, a possibel mini-gams of sorts where a player sits in a simulator pod, uploads their blueprint to the simulator, and fights against other players CvC without actually risking their ships. They would use this to test iterations of the combat system and balance it before players start having real engagements. Alternatively, they enable CvC just in some zones during the testing phase, and gradually expand the area as it improves.
 
We all want CvC, we all want it on launch and in beta, we want it to be really meet, and I'm sure the Devs do too. They MUST have a good reason for making this a stretch goal, you will just need to respect that.

ULTRA-MEGA-REINFORCED BRICK!

It is possible to add in-game researches? For example, you can buy it from sellers on space stations/cities or get by himself? It will be better than chained crafting (Brick -> reinforced brick -> super-reinforced brick etc.)

Could even be an entity on it's own that's a hacking device that you need to place, not necessarily a LUA script that has to be run.

I agree with most of this. If this is the case, depending on community feedback, it sounds like NQ may have prioritized incorrectly. All we can hope is by putting pressure via forums they will find the money to get CvC out faster.

Ok, I think I understand what is going on here. I'll bring a fresh perspective to the table. Here is my guess.
 
CvC pvp is not on the table as a launch feature because they want to hire someone who's main job will be building CvC. To have enough money to hire that person, they need to hit their stretch goal.
 
This may not be a matter of allocation of time here. In theory a small team COULD reallocate their time to develop CvC before other game features assuming they all havr the same versatile skillset, but that is not realistic. Right now, you probably have team members contributing to the game in the areas that they specialize in, and that skillset is enough for the game with its current launch features to be out on-time in its current budget.
 
But lets say it will take one of those members twice or three times as long to develop the CvC as someone who could be brought in and is already experienced in those kinds of mechanics? Not only is reallocating that dev's time groselly inefficient, but the dev wouldn't be working on the parts of the game that they are good at, and possibly wouldn't be doing to job they thoight they signed up for. If Dev A loves working on multiplayer code, Dev B loves working on the building engine, and Dev C loves and specializes in building world gen algorythms, how do you think Dev C would like it if the owner went and said
 
"hey Dev C, the fans want CvC combat more than they want new biomes. 3/4th of our projected biomes will now be a stretch goal, you are going to build CvC for the next two years"
 
If I were Dev C, i might not be working for them anymore. They might be fixed on hiring someone to build CvC because their current team simply don't want to build it first. Its not our game, its their game.
 
Ok, so lets pretend for a second that the game gets finded (likely) and they don't hit their first stretch goal (unlikely).
You are concerned that they won't be able to test CvC during alpha and beta of it isn't added till launch (true) and that they won't be able to test it after launch (false). Deff harder to test, but not impossible.
 
Combat simulators, a possibel mini-gams of sorts where a player sits in a simulator pod, uploads their blueprint to the simulator, and fights against other players CvC without actually risking their ships. They would use this to test iterations of the combat system and balance it before players start having real engagements. Alternatively, they enable CvC just in some zones during the testing phase, and gradually expand the area as it improves.
 
We all want CvC, we all want it on launch and in beta, we want it to be really meet, and I'm sure the Devs do too. They MUST have a good reason for making this a stretch goal, you will just need to respect that.

As it stands right now, the devs plan on setting up some NPC traders to get in-game money circulating. At a certain point they plan to remove the NPC's, and allow the amount of currency that is out there to simply continue circulating. When the currency is at a "fixed" value, as more players start to play the game, the in-game currency will start to deflate, as more players will need currency, and players with currency will occasionally quit playing, leading to loss.
 
So in theory, the NPC's could simply reappear to add more currency to circulation.... or instead...
 
How about have a rare ore in the game mintable into in-game currency? So what resources are present on a given planet is procedurally controlled by the devs, there can be an infinite number of planets, so in theory the currency supply could increase to any given value. Lets pretend for a moment that a rare or called Moneytonium is in the game, and its only use is to be processed by a machine into in-game currency.
 
For one, now printing money is a profession that requires some infrastructure. People would have to mine it, and then process it into Moneytonium. This is kind of neat, as it sort of works like Gold Mines back in the day of the gold standard. There are a few problems that this could present, but there may be solutions to these problems as well.
 
1. The currency could inflate out of control if currency is being added to the market in large amounts. This could be a really big problem, as players could dedicate huge amounts of time to mining for Moneytonium so that they can buy their ideal spacecraft instead of mining for the needed materials to build it.
 
Solution: Control the spawn rate of Moneytonium veins in planets. Once there are enough spacebux for a stable economy, the devs could just flip the "Spawn Moneytonium Veins" switch, and no new veins can be discovered or scanned for, they will simply stop spawning ( or iron will spawn there instead). Once the currency begins to deflate too much again, then they can flip the switch back on, and newly discovered planets now have more Moneytonium. This could be implemented in the event that player behavior favors mining for Moneytonium instead of mining for other resources and producing goods. plus we might not even need this kind of fix, as if the currency has inflated so much that spacebux aren't worth much, it won't be worth it to mine for and process Moneytonium anyways unless you are in a VERY REMOTE COLONY and NEED that money for your local economy. If you are far enough away from trade hubs, the value of iron on homeplanet prime won't be relevent in the way outer rim.
 
2. There is a conceptual problem with an in-game material (Moneytonium ore) becoming a digital currency that can't be touched or stolen. How exactly does that occur? Matter can't exactly become data right? This is a tricky one because digital currencies simply aren't grounded in physical things, and the Moneytonium ore into spacebux transformation is a bit bizarre.
 
Solution: I've got nothing for this one, however NPC's that mysteriously circulate digital currency is a strangeness in itself too. I can come up with a good flavorful reason for this to make sense, that AI's that immegrated with the humans needed to establish a currency, so they arbitrated the currency system. They re-appear to distribute more currency if they see civilization struggling with managing their economy, it sorta makes sense. But what do they do with what they trade for? where does it go? Emerson has to give somewhere for a game to be fun, otherwise we would be bored out of our mind while our characters spend time cooking, eating, using the toilet, and sleeping. TLDR my solution here is that breaking immersion is simply a needed comprimise.
 
3. What happens when someone just keeps hoarding spacebux? In theory, if the currency reaches points of inflation, players could trade fewer goods for larger quantities of spacebux. Imagine an org doing this, harvesting resources in a safe way, trading them ONLY when people are mining enough spacebux to inflate currency, and then just sitting on the resulting bux. On the flip side, an org could aggressively mine Moneytonium for a long time and either wait to mint it to avoid triggering the inflation saveguards in the game, or mint it continuously but not spend it, to accumulate a ton of wealth without inflating the currency. Then in one swoop, buy up everything they can and crash the market?
 
Solution: In the same way that you can effectively "mine" money and process it using a mint unit, they may create a corresponding element that turns in-game currency into other rare materials at a fixed rate, but ONLY when inflation reaches certain thresholds. This provides a way for players to leech money out of the market if the price of goods gets all wacked out, and a temporary crash would then not have lasting consequences. This will work especially well if the digital currency is some kind of energy instead of data. If Moneytonium is a charged or irradiated material, and the printing process extracts said energy into spacebux and leaves stone or dirt as a byproduct, then perhapse what's special about this energy currency is that a large amount can be compressed into rare crystals or metals, and only when the galaxy has too much of that energy floating around.
 
So here I've got a pretty good framework, let the flaming begin!

This sounds fantastic! I'm hoping the contract system will be robust enough to allow a space race mechanism to work.
 
Plus this gives builders two big genres to explore: hover racers and race tracks. This is a HUGE conceptual contribution!
 
Depending on where the races take place, you might have a zone where the TU's permissions allow or are susceptible to outside tampering, so racers might have an incentive to add shields to their construct despite weapons not being allowed. Similarly, there could even be an underground circuit where weapons ARE permitted.

@Ostris the way combat will be implemented at launch has also been explained already.
 
I realise not everyone has the same amount of time to "research" their pet projects. I really do. But that again is not really NQ's fault. They put the information out there they cant force you to read or listen to it. And for a game that is pre alpha, we have a lot more information available to us then some games a month before launch.
 
And nobody is telling you what you can or can not talk about on this forum. By all means you can try to convince the devs of your point of view. Just accept that if you make a thread, there will always be people with different opinions. If you dont want to deal with that then you need a blog, not a forum.
 

I was gunna respond to this but everything you said had so little to do with what I posted or anyone else has posted that is seems pointless.
 
Ultimately I can only hope the devs see this and implement basic forums of CvC in alpha/beta for testing or we hit the stretch goals and it doesn't matter.

**Update - - A organization has been created for the committee, tasked with the creation of rules for these races:  "Interstellar Hovercraft Racing Committee". Only Serious applicants will be accepted. ***

 

Introducing The Interstellar Hovercraft Races!! 

Hovercraft size to be limited

Only Hover technology will be allowed

No Weapons allowed

All craft will be inspected before races.

All Organizations can submit racers

Courses/Tracks to be similar to that of the pod races in star wars. 

If popular enough we wish different orgs to host the events!

 

The Solar Empire Wishes to provide some entertainment in the universe that doesn't involve violence. And of course Gambling is legal in The Solar Empire on these races!!

Join The Solar Empire Today, help build a safe, secure and fun society!

(this is a work in progress , and open to suggestions)

Hi everyone,
 
It seems the basic rules of this thread have been vastly ignored.
In return, all posts who weren't following these rules have been archived.
 
So as a reminder, I repost it there:
 
 
If you want to present cases that illustrate your point of view, do it in your post.
If you think a case raised by another player is not relevant, you can do it, but do it in your post by explaining why as shortly and clearly as possible.
Don't reply to each other each time someone says something, this inflates the topic, making the task to keep in check what are the most important points difficult.
 
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Best regards,
Nyzaltar.

Also, a great deal of these market manipulation aruments are under the assumption that players with DAC will simply try to play the market with them, or will trade DAC for in-game currency as a middle man to get some other service with in-game currency.
 
Anyone that works in business understands that since each trader is attempting to profit, the more steps involved in trading for your material, the less profitable it will be unless you intend to travel (which will be risky as soon as the DAC's will be offloaded in a DAC unlootable economy).
 
The smartest players will create contracts to trade DAC's for either finished goods, refined materials, or whatever service they actually want. Players that need subscriptions to keep playing will produce what is needed to fulfill the contract, and the DAC's will be in and out of the system free of price manipulation. Orgs do this internally to keep their lower rank players playing in their org: a highschooler spending 3 hours mining iron for a DAC is a fantastic deal for them, since they get another month to do whatever. Someone who works full time trading a DAC for 3 hours of in game work that they don't enjoy is a steal, since they make more at their job than that DAC is worth.
 
The only people who should be actually worried about unlooyable DAC's are people who want the satesfaction of literally robbing players. Be it a roleplay choice not to work for an org, or because the player just wants another way to be a jerk on the internet, that is what it boils down to.

I'll be trying to push the limits during alpha and beta, seeing just how big I can make something, how awkward or poorly a ship can handle, how fast I can make a ship built just to be fast, etc.
 
At launch however, I'll get my org together as best as I can, get into space ASAP and go pretty far out. Far enough that it would be pretty challenging to bump into us accidentally without sensors (yes and far enough for trade to be terribly inconvenient). Go isolationist for a while until we've got a general culture and uniform-ish look going. Once we've got a good mix of ships, weapons, loot etc...
 
We'll return to populated space, a foreign people with foreign looking tech, with our own isolated history. neat?

I'm actually expecting this to be whether it is included in the full game, or instead in a future expansion.
 
Being subscription based means regular funds going in for expansion content. Hitting this stretch goal means having those funds available sooner, and as such having that content sooner.
 
Also I think it would be kind of funny for there to he a period of the game before ship weapons become a thing. To hurt someone you would have to get out of your ship to do it lemme pull over real quick and give this guy a piece of my mind

This is a tough one for me to answer, because I've sampled so many games.
Primarily I would say I am a Minecraft player. I'm part of a private server, but also participated in a variety of modded and unmodded servers, some with pvp/civilization gameplay and some without.
However some other games I have a great deal of experience with that would be relevant would be Space Engineers, Rust, Eve, World of Warcraft, Terraria, Spore, Halo 5's Forge feature, and Everquest (classic). They were all great games, they each have some flaws, and they all scratch different itches for me.
 
I'm hoping that DU will scratch most of my itches all at once, and from what it looks like so far it lacks my least favorite mechanics from most of the games I've already described.

Welp, time to a bandon the thread!
 
But for real, that kind of collective KOS nonsense is an ACTUAL plague. This isn't Rust.

I don't see the problem. We don't even have an alpha yet, and the players that are hopping on now, supporting the kickstarter, and frequently using the forums are likely going to be the pillars of the playerbase, or their org will fade to obscurity most players won't choose their org by wading through the community page, they will either be recruited by a friend, or blind-recruited through pm's or in the game. Its the kind of predictable thing that will solve itself

Could we get an open-topped cockpit for planetary travel?
 
Yeah, I'm talking hover-bike style cockpit, not unlike a speeder or motorcycle. Here are the potential benefits:
 
-It would look totally sick!
 
-Less resources and lighter weight means easier to build and easier to propel ~faster
 
-The exposed nature would allow players to shoot you dead, despite being in a construct. Since Construct vs Construct combat won't be there at launch, this would allow lower-level play to include some sort-of vehicular combat.
 
-Can't go into space with it
 
-This would allow players to have a low-tier transportation system for traveling across a planet surface that is easy to steal/lose but easy to replace
 
-Organize SWEET hover-races
 
Plus who doesn't love speeders?

Found some of the unfo on the wiki, and here is how it sounds like it'll work.
 
Territory Units (TU's) are what will allow an organization to claim an area. Once that TU is in place, seems like that org will unilaterally get to decide how that zone will work. Laws, building rights, mining rights, etc. This makes sense from a "we want players to be able to build civilizations" standpoint to prevent random players from walking into your metropolis and turning it into swiss cheese with sphere voxel deletion, or crashing their ship into your base.
 
This also makes it sound as though in a hex with a TU, unauthorized players won't be able to edit terrain at all, so no mining or digging, no greifing whatsoever.
 
But before you pvp folks flip out over this, I don't thing TU's will be safe zones, i bet structures can be attacked and damaged, just not built or edited by outsiders. So you won't be able to walk in and delete the wall to my vault, but i'm willing to bet you could shoot it up and eventually destroy components that can be locked onto. We might see a system like rust where attackers can damage strictures, but it would take a good ammount of time and resources to break through defenses. A seige should take long enough that an all-nighter can't undo enough work to shrek people who have day jobs.
 
Link http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Territory_Control

Similarly, you could have added a poll, see what percentage of the player pop thinks this is a big enough problem for the devs to really change anything. Support to the KS has been steadily climbing, it's going to be hard to point to this as a gaff if it is having a positive effect.
 
Plus if this being a stretch goal means that people are going to throw-down more funding to get it there, I'd be just fine with this being a trick to boost funding especially if it works

In one of the videos it looked like he actually placed one of these hover type engines.
 

 
So hopefully they are working on some other planetary vehicle type elements too.