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As a fan of similar sandbox games, it always burns me up that raiding people's base while they are offline is the primary means of aggression. Rust, Space Engineers PvP servers, minecraft etc each provide some potection against players looking to raid your base while you are logged off, but it usually is not enough. Some space engineers servers had a rule of not attacking/greifing people while they aren't logged on to defend it, but it often went uninforced. With Rust, you needed either several small huts with your gear equally split up and hidden to mitigate losses, or have a huge team maintaining giant walls 24/7.

 

From an immersion standpoint sure, it makes sense that it would be easier to raid a zone if no one is guarding it, however scifi characters don't physically dissapear from their empites to work a 9-5.

 

In a traditional MMO, your character doesn't exist while you aren't loged on, however with controlled zone, there should be some type of protection. I'm guessing this is where the territory system sets in?

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How would this warning work in practice?

I think JC's still thinking that through but it looks a bit like he will go with the second life / landmark solution. Someone can go into your claim but can't attack and destroy anything. They may be able to interact with some things: doors, trade machines, repair units, junk chests. They may be able to farm, mine or fell trees. Entropia does this. 

They may be able to interact with the claim terminal but only to hack it. If they can get to it! They must put virus or worm in it that takes a day to work and tells you offline via an SMS to your phone or an email, somethings up.

If the site, claim is abandoned that's easy the hack works. You don't loose the blue prints only the resources. 

But if you want that base you come back hit the antivirus button in the claim UI and the worm/ virus is gone. There may be some who fight to defend the worm/ virus while it works and those that battle them to keep the claim. 

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In the safe zone by the acrship you're fine.  No one can do anything to any of your stuff there.

 

I foresee the arcship zone becoming a mass storage zone with people renting out their space there for others to store valuable goods...

 

 

As for outside the zone.  You need to hide... and you need to join an organization and build together and defend each others stuff when they're not online.  This is how settlements and towns and cities form.  It doesn't happen in the games you mention because the tools to formalize relationships and communicate aren't there.

 

In this interview https://youtu.be/H9Y0YmqGYDM 

It sounds like there won't be any automated defenses... at least not at launch... because having independent objects running scripts that use server resources 24/7 is a bad idea.

 

Though I think you could find a way to only have those scripts active when players approach...

 

 

But really this whole game is focused on group play and social dynamics.  The point of it is that you need other people... need to trust them and rely upon them to succeed.  MMOs these days have become way too solo friendly.  In the old days it was either impossible or very hard to progress very far on your own. 

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How would this warning work in practice?

 

Attacking side "purchase" some kind of allowance to attack other organization - after issuing it, 24 hour warning starts ticking for both sides. During that time each organization can prepare for inevitable. After 24 hours massacre begins ;)

Simple as that.

 

Of course there is another subject to discuss - how often could each area be invaded after the dispute, but that's another story...

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In my oppinion 24 hour warning that someone is going to attack controlled area would be enough, so that faction being on defence could prepare to push back the attackers.

24 hours? Make it two-months notification.

 

Nay, 6 months notification, with the requirement to fill form 25BX-33/Q for registration to engage in honorable combat along with forms 25BS-33/Q-3 and 25BS-33/Q-11 for the attacker to plea on killing you and robbing you accordingly.

 

/sarcasm_off

 

AFK = A Free Kill

 

 

Deal with it.

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In my oppinion 24 hour warning that someone is going to attack controlled area would be enough, so that faction being on defence could prepare to push back the attackers.

Sorry, not gonna happen. You build in the middle of the woods, away from civilisation and strength-in-numbers groups? You are a lone-wolf, who's gonna be eaten by packs of wolves.

 

 

Welcome to sandbox games.

 

 

 

Build underground and use some stealth tech emitters to hide your presence in the world from people. Your pretty golden castle says only one thing to me : "Free scrap to sell for money".

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From my understanding the devs were going to make this work like eve online. There would be a reinforcement timer based on the amount of fuel. Basically a defensive base has fuel stored inside it so when the shields drop to 25% the station because invulnerable until the fuel is depleted, in this time most modules will not function and no additional fuel can be added. Usually 12-36 hours depending on how much fuel is stored. This gives the defender time to gather forces. If there is not enough fuel to start the process the shields will fall. Leaving the base raidable.

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From my understanding the devs were going to make this work like eve online. There would be a reinforcement timer based on the amount of fuel. Basically a defensive base has fuel stored inside it so when the shields drop to 25% the station because invulnerable until the fuel is depleted, in this time most modules will not function and no additional fuel can be added. Usually 12-36 hours depending on how much fuel is stored. This gives the defender time to gather forces. If there is not enough fuel to start the process the shields will fall. Leaving the base raidable.

No, not really. The Devs will have a protection force field that has a certain HP relative to the power put into it.

 

 

A ship alone won't be able to bust the force field, a siege fleet though will take an hour to take the force field down.

 

 

This is not EVE 2.0. There's also, not magic space-healing of armor like in EVE and actual infiltrators can go down there and put as many C4 as they want on the force field emitter and blow it up if there's no protection, the same way that they would on a ship by placing C4 on its power core and blowing it up to smithereens..

 

 

Much emergent, many 6 Degrees of Freedom, so not EVE Online, wow.

 

 

Find an org, roll with them for protection, live safely through taxation. If you don't want PvP, stay away from the frontier regions of territorial space, live in the safety net of your faction's turf.

 

Nobody is giving you "magic force field for enough time for you to defend". Use brains when building to be safe. Be smart, build underground.

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Who said there would be no "automated script" response?  how will that work?  you setup your defenses and then if you are not online and you get attacked you get wiped out - guns silent, no response... just bases blown up??  wow!  sounds great!  I am getting ready to put alot of time into building that stuff!!

 

It better be that you can setup automatic responses/defences that operate with or without you... online or not.

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24 hours? Make it two-months notification.

 

Nay, 6 months notification, with the requirement to fill form 25BX-33/Q for registration to engage in honorable combat along with forms 25BS-33/Q-3 and 25BS-33/Q-11 for the attacker to plea on killing you and robbing you accordingly.

 

/sarcasm_off

 

AFK = A Free Kill

 

 

Deal with it.

 

 

seems like even EVE disagrees with you with its reinforcement timers :P

 

and i tend to look at EVE for balancing points because they have been running a sandbox MMO for a decade now :P

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seems like even EVE disagrees with you with its reinforcement timers :P

 

and i tend to look at EVE for balancing points because they have been running a sandbox MMO for a decade now :P

They also run a player==ship kind of thing, and let's face it, if a person wants a multicrew ship, they have to have lieutenants that can drive the ship in cases of emergencies.

 

 

So no, you can't have a ship or a space station have an arbitrary 24 hours shield because the owner is offline.

 

 

Same deal with cities. Urbanisation is a thing. Strength in numbers. -shrug-

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They also run a player==ship kind of thing, and let's face it, if a person wants a multicrew ship, they have to have lieutenants that can drive the ship in cases of emergencies.

 

the reinforcement timer on constructs doesnt matter if its player==ship or not, because the things with reinforcement timers in eve arent ships :P

but the things where you could conceivably put someone on duty all the time.

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the reinforcement timer on constructs doesnt matter if its player==ship or not, because the things with reinforcement timers in eve arent ships :P

but the things where you could conceivably put someone on duty all the time.

that's the problem, the game engine doesn't discriminate on constructs, everything is a construct, there's no "ship" or "building" class of construct.

 

The Force Field idea is excellent. It ensures isolated trolls won't have a change on bringing it down with pew pew from their ships and it makes a coordinated surprise attack on a city have a halt on it until that siege fleet deals with the force field.

 

 

Plus, what you forget, is that Territory Control Units may take up to 24 hours to set up if they are destroyed.

 

 

If a guy is in the city, they can destroy the Territory Unit so it won't get hacked from the ground forces akin to a "King of the Hill" gameplay, in order to force a hard-timer on the territory being lost and the reinforcements for that territory to organise and arrive.

 

 

That = emergent.

 

EVE reinforcement timers = arbitrary and lame.

 

 

Tell me how wrong I am on thinking that a city or a space station should have custodians. Please tell how how a sandbox game with its core feature being population per square and emergent gameplay, should ditch the emergent gameplay part and its sandbox features of politics and management.

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that's the problem, the game engine doesn't discriminate on constructs, everything is a construct, there's no "ship" or "building" class of construct.

 

The Force Field idea is excellent. It ensures isolated trolls won't have a change on bringing it down with pew pew from their ships and it makes a coordinated surprise attack on a city have a halt on it until that siege fleet deals with the force field.

 

 

Plus, what you forget, is that Territory Control Units may take up to 24 hours to set up if they are destroyed.

 

 

If a guy is in the city, they can destroy the Territory Unit so it won't get hacked from the ground forces akin to a "King of the Hill" gameplay, in order to force a hard-timer on the territory being lost and the reinforcements for that territory to organise and arrive.

 

 

That = emergent.

 

EVE reinforcement timers = arbitrary and lame.

 

 

Tell me how wrong I am on thinking that a city or a space station should have custodians. Please tell how how a sandbox game with its core feature being population per square and emergent gameplay, should ditch the emergent gameplay part and its sandbox features of politics and management.

I didnt say that everything should be protected by such a timer.

 

Im just saying something similar should exist.

 

Maybe some semi-expensive shield bubble thingy that works similarily to an eve reinforcement timer.

Blargh blargh kyrium shield with hard limited active time or something along those lines.

 

You get a limited "get out of jail" timer which deters low grade trolls from just bombing everything.

 

With additional limitations to keep them from being used offensively (set-up time, only on stations/planets/'roids).

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I didnt say that everything should be protected by such a timer.

 

Im just saying something similar should exist.

 

Maybe some semi-expensive shield bubble thingy that works similarily to an eve reinforcement timer.

Blargh blargh kyrium shield with hard limited active time or something along those lines.

 

You get a limited "get out of jail" timer which deters low grade trolls from just bombing everything.

 

With additional limitations to keep them from being used offensively (set-up time, only on stations/planets/'roids).

Well, force field emitters of different sizes, sure. But not FLAT timers. That breaks the game imo. EVE had those, due to how easy it was to roam n systems FTL-wise. Warp-trips may take an hour in the game, sub-light is confirmed to be at least a wekk or up to a month. The timers are there , but people can't ask for personal time-shields. That's the way I see it.

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and what has flight time to do with people pooping in the communal sandbox?

 

let people build in peace if they want.

 

not everyone has to agree with your idea of hardcore FFA deathzone for everyone vision.

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and what has flight time to do with people pooping in the communal sandbox?

 

let people build in peace if they want.

 

not everyone has to agree with your idea of hardcore FFA deathzone for everyone vision.

Safezones = where carebears live, and I'm fine with that.

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Safezones = where carebears live, and I'm fine with that.

 

you know that building games tend to attract carebears because they want to build shiny stuff? V:

 

if you forcefully limit them to small spaces you'll lose large parts of the possible playerbase.

 

and giving people time to actually /react/ on attacks doesnt make them safe from everything....

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You don't lose anyone. People just have to think before they build something shiney. Buy Merck, buy security, buy lazors. Emergent gameplay and all. There is no emergent gameplay with timers

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I would assume that there will be a way to build your own safe zones, or to ensure that your structures are in some way protected. That could even be by making the siege process time-consuming and expensive enough that people will not want to bother siegeing someone unless they are relatively sure of their ability to profit from it.

 

So long as buildings are hard to destroy and relative safety is attainable, people will go out and build things. Look at games like Rust, where you're never really 100% safe anywhere. People still built elaborate, massive castles and towers and palaces even. Don't worry too much about killing off the carebear content with hardship. Similarly, don't make the game so safe that it's nothing but a different-looking Minecraft or Space Engineers.

 

In summary, if I wanted to play Rust, I'd go play Rust. If I wanted to play Space Engineers, I'd go play Space Engineers. DU should be something in between.

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you know that building games tend to attract carebears because they want to build shiny stuff? V:

 

if you forcefully limit them to small spaces you'll lose large parts of the possible playerbase.

 

and giving people time to actually /react/ on attacks doesnt make them safe from everything....

20 Km radius is not small tho.

 

Plus, if they don't want a sandbox MMO with an open market and open PvP, they can always go to Landmark.

 

The thing is, they want to be building shiny things, but not having any risk in a game advertised for its emergent gameplay. If a guy builds a factory and I have to take the factory out in a small time-frame due to travel-times and that person's timezone faction's limitations, I should not be limited.

 

Reinforcement timers will kill the flow of the game. Travel times are a limitation already, let's not add hidden "queues" in the game.

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I would assume that there will be a way to build your own safe zones, or to ensure that your structures are in some way protected. That could even be by making the siege process time-consuming and expensive enough that people will not want to bother siegeing someone unless they are relatively sure of their ability to profit from it.

 

So long as buildings are hard to destroy and relative safety is attainable, people will go out and build things. Look at games like Rust, where you're never really 100% safe anywhere. People still built elaborate, massive castles and towers and palaces even. Don't worry too much about killing off the carebear content with hardship. Similarly, don't make the game so safe that it's nothing but a different-looking Minecraft or Space Engineers.

 

In summary, if I wanted to play Rust, I'd go play Rust. If I wanted to play Space Engineers, I'd go play Space Engineers. DU should be something in between.

 

I liked how it was managed in Minecraft in the Beta and around release (or shortly before it) with the faction plugin.

 

You could in essence open up a faction with the plugin with /f create (faction name). Then the whole mechanic would apply - per each member, you had ten power points. One power unit would equal a 16 x 16 chunk you could claim, from bedrock to the highest point. So if you have a one-man group you can claim up to 10 16 x 16 chunks separately or connected.

 

In that claimed area, only you or those of your org could add and remove blocks. So people naturally built walls to keep others out physically. Sounds overpowered first as outsiders couldn't damage blocks by conventional means at all. Instead, they had to either lure certain mobs there to result in explosions or, used more often, learn how to use "artillery" - as firing TNT at player structures was a way to damage them.

 

Now that's just to gain entry where possibly no other way would be present. Doomforting was possible, but the gist was that with each member death you could lose power. That means PVP was still a viable option - because if the available power would drop below the claimed chunks, at that point you could actively claim areas from an existing faction - thus you had territorial warfare that, despite block protection, still worked somehow through PVP and whatnot.

 

In the civilization server they used a similar idea - there you could reinforce blocks with various materials so it would take some time to go through them via conventional (pickaxe for example, or a weapon) means. Perhaps a combination out of these things could just work well for all sides involved beyond the classic safe zones of or near ark ships.

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You don't lose anyone. People just have to think before they build something shiney. Buy Merck, buy security, buy lazors. Emergent gameplay and all. There is no emergent gameplay with timers

 

hey yo tell that eve

 

some timers allow all players to actually play against their opponents, when the guy who frequently attacks me is a few hours behind me, he can always plan his attacks in quiet and peace while i have to sleep to get to work the next day.

destroying stuff with impunity in that time.

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