le_souriceau

Unfortunately, neither of the programmers still developing DU have time to implement it. ?

I think the decision to limit us to NQ built markets is the first mistake. There is no social element to the markets. People just land, crash inside the million parked ships, run to the terminal and then run home.
 
The other complete immersion killer is that markets on all planets look exactly the same. 

For me the smartest move to create community feeling within the game is to scrap all the faceless NQ hubs and open player markets

I was thinking a bit about it and come to conclusion, that some people probably hate.
 
Only hope for DU higher levels of societal organization is endless WAR.
 
Reason is quite simple, if not obvious on surface. Every peacful (mostly economical) global interactivity will be overpowered by hardcore grinders and alt accounts working in small groups (as micro-clan or core of larger org). So, no matter how you roll skills, resources, industry or anything, as long its not includes physical conflict (projection competition) people will be fanaticly workarounding any system thrown against them, and totaly not willing to be "civilized", progenating same "isolated farmsteads" thing, that now rules DU.

Do workarounds with war much more difficult: people can't replace 10 people ship crew all by themeselfs (if we exclude some very limited play on 2-3 computers). Probervial field of battle allows more or less "honest" degree of people/characters ratio and, to some extent, less importance of bruteforcing via solo/small group 24/7 playtime. Also in war you need alies, that will realisticly generate larger groups from smaller ones.

there's never been a game design rationale for a time-based skills system... 
 
such a system is a ploy to maintain subscriptions. 
 
that's why they implemented it in Eve and that's why DU lazily copied it. 
 
Building skills should be at some level an achievement...you know, something based on the actual game, not based on how long you've been a subscriber. 
 
sure free to play games can suck, but subscription games can also build core game features around monetization and this is a prime example. 
 
NQ didn't want to make a "good skills system", they wanted to make a skills system that encouraged people to keep their subs active. 
 
PS I know you said not to mention it...but that screenshot makes me want to play PoE again  

Try "Mongol Invasion" universal magic tool drives, they can drive you out of initial position quite far.

This is a game of HOPE.  The game has all the variables to create an equation that can make an incredible game.  The current equation is bad, but I hope they can change it and make the game DU was always meant to be..  

Its actualy not that simple. Like not all actors involved are per se NQ employees.
 
It may not be widely known fact, but NQ outsouring quite a bit. First -- marketing (speaking of advertising strategy) -- with at least 3 different companies (HomeRun PR, MSM, WarningUp). Extent is unclear, but interestengly, press contacts on official website give only those outsourcers, no one from NQ proper. Second -- support. Last summer, before Beta, I believe, NQ actualy had opened position of some sort of support supervisor on welcometothejungle.com with task to control/coordinate all other (oursourced) GM/support stuff.
 
So its also a bit question of company structure, compomises and priorities. 

My special speculation today: they busy with something so epicly butthurting (for us to discover), that this is now their main priority, even more important, then some lost cents, community page down for year or lots of other things.
 
Next big news will be utterly shocking.
 
 

Worst part, that even this forum/discord arguments about situation feel so meaningless...
 
Same people just repeating all same story how everything is not right and what NQ should do in ideal world (me included). Other same people repeating (to counter first part indeed) all over again same story of "this is beta", "give devs some time", "all is fine, I'm enjoying the game". Somewhere in middle personal fights ignite (because nothing new to add anyway). At this point I generaly even know names, that will be involved and roughly what they will say and how interact with each other.
 
I feel like we all prisoners of some cursed dark forest of something, just making endless rounds trying to find exit and fighting each other because of evil enchantment.
 
 
 
 

My special speculation today: they busy with something so epicly butthurting (for us to discover), that this is now their main priority, even more important, then some lost cents, community page down for year or lots of other things.
 
Next big news will be utterly shocking.
 
 

Retrospectivly (observing this game since 2016) I think "building" part of game kinda served very bad service to NQ. In way it provided sense of false security -- people done all kind of fancy builds, NQ gladly promoted them in social media, so its established this sugary narrative and endless talks of "what players can build in our game, just look how its cool". But its very... decieving thing to rest upon, because as builds fancy (and creative), as they hollow (and useless) in way of actual dynamics and systems of gameplay. And they, to be honest, main "food" for minority (in terms of paying population such MMO needs). Majority need something else.
 
Buildings =/= Civilization.
 
Im meawhile its very telling (and very observable) how most (if not all) of "political" life of game, starting pretty vigorously in 2016 gradualy died out -- because despite all efforts social players not found anything to base their efforts. Game just lacked (and still largely lacking) any content for them. Even community page broken and abandoned for whole year.

Retrospectivly (observing this game since 2016) I think "building" part of game kinda served very bad service to NQ. In way it provided sense of false security -- people done all kind of fancy builds, NQ gladly promoted them in social media, so its established this sugary narrative and endless talks of "what players can build in our game, just look how its cool". But its very... decieving thing to rest upon, because as builds fancy (and creative), as they hollow (and useless) in way of actual dynamics and systems of gameplay. And they, to be honest, main "food" for minority (in terms of paying population such MMO needs). Majority need something else.
 
Buildings =/= Civilization.
 
Im meawhile its very telling (and very observable) how most (if not all) of "political" life of game, starting pretty vigorously in 2016 gradualy died out -- because despite all efforts social players not found anything to base their efforts. Game just lacked (and still largely lacking) any content for them. Even community page broken and abandoned for whole year.

My special speculation today: they busy with something so epicly butthurting (for us to discover), that this is now their main priority, even more important, then some lost cents, community page down for year or lots of other things.
 
Next big news will be utterly shocking.
 
 

Historically this type of questions, trying to frame the unframable usually have an agenda. I wander if this one also has one. 
 
"What kind of game is this to you?"... 
This assumes the definition of "the kind of game" is not set by NQ but a open topic with several divergent opinions. 
 
A proper question could be:
"What kind of game would you like DU to evolve to? " 
OR
"What aspect of the game do you enjoy the most? " 
Those 2 questions have personal opinions as answer. 
Yours does not. 

Sandbox games encouraged you to be dependent on other players, as in UO and SWG. But you could be free to do as you pleased. You could pursue your activities without having to join mmorpg groups like in a theme park like in EQ or WoW. The old games had a gameloop. I like to use SWG as an example. Exploring the world always involved finding new resources so you could either sell them or use them yourself. As an artisan you could sell my goods because they knew I was a Master Armorsmith. You got in good with me to get the best prices. As a bounty hounter I had my craftsmen who supplied me with items. And I could hunt down players. After I exhaustedly did the work, I sought out the entertainers (not the macro users!) who chatted with me and entertained me. It was a great way to strike up a conversation and get well rested. And you met some new contacts and people invited you to join a player association in their own cities. (Yes, cities, not 5km towers that are only 1m thick like in DU!)
 
In WoW, I was a sought-after healer on the Horde side back then. Why do I know that? I logged in and I instantly had at least 10 messages from different people wanting me to heal. If you made a name for yourself, you were remembered. It always paid off to be part of a group in a theme park mmorpg because you had a sense of 'we' when you achieved something. Today, people don't really talk to each other or have become even more antisocial. Just queue random dungeons to prove the point and wipe on the first boss. People will leave the group and you get yelled at.
 
Theme park mmorpgs like WoW Vanilla were not hard. People just didn't know how to deal with mmorpgs at a "new" time with broad internet access back then in mid 2000. WoW Classic proves that 15 years later. It's not like the game has gotten harder, people just know the mechanics and get used to mmorpgs. (And yes, we can use the Naxxramas patch as a comparison, in case anyone wants to object that it's not the real experience).  I'm excited when Blizzard announces The Burning Crusade Classic this weekend (19th feb 2021). Even though it's not official yet, but that seems certain since WoW Classic brought them 3 times as many subs. Just think, the only WoW killer at the end was Classic itself...
Then it's no longer 40 men, but "only" 25. And I'm willing to bet that TBC will bring in more subscriptions than WoW Classic. Because people miss the old feeling, that new games cannot give them.  
 
And now we are standing here in DU with nothing. You're supposed to log in to mine, build something and then you ask yourself what for? To stroke your ego when you invite people to see what you've built? There was a reason Landmark flopped. This is in no way that DU reflects the vision from the Kickstarter campaign in its current state, 6 month after the soft launch. (Yes, I don't call it Beta because subscription and no wipe decision) And if I compare my experiences in mmorpgs, which I was allowed to take along since then 2001 in DAoC as a start, then I ask myself seriously who really sees a mmorpg here, which lives up to the spirit, in ANY form at all and does justice to the name sandbox mmorpg. As I wrote in another thread: We have, if anything, a nice tech demo that has no long-term motivation in its current state for the mmorpg market. 
NQ has made it so I won't support any crowdfunding platform as far as games are concerned. I am very angry with them about AvA and that they postponed it. Even more so with the lack of gameplay in its current state. I don't mourn the cost of the ruby founder title, but it's the bloody time and energy that went into it.
If for some reason, which I hope is not the case, NQ runs out of money, don't be surprised. You could see it coming. I said back in December 2019, when the podcast was published on YT, that the optional power system and the separation of AvA from the PvP package, and that the Lua code is opensource was a mistake. Do you know what the reaction was? People had their rose-coloured glasses on and ignored it. Even my memes about the missing AvA they found funny, but today they don't laugh anymore. "It is what it is" - But definitely not what they made us believe in 2016 in the KS campaign.
 
But to find a concluding paragraph again: I would wish today in 2021 that mmorpgs had the depth of previous sandbox mmorpg and yet respected my time up to a point. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but until then I'll look at the mmorpgs I find. Maybe someone will build something like that. But I wouldn't mind investing more time in it again.
 

This actualy I think some sort of cruel "Motto" of our endless feedback/discussion/arguments in this game since Alpha.
 
They could do many things, but they not. And we can influence this very little. So enjoy you ride in train as passenger, sure you can curse train driver (or jump off), but he not giving much muck or, more realisticly, kinda passed many turns and brakes not that reliable. Perhaps we even survive and arrive to some station this year : )

True, its all painful issue for me too. DU has competly dead world with almost zero interactivity beyond some basic physics and ability to edit voxels. Its honestly feels like sort of tech demo some games show/share, where you just do some basic testing stuff in sterile stage of assets.

I like your double standards, Moose, even envy such charming simplicity.

First you theatrically suffering how toxic and cruel this place has become, then shitting on people "wise man" crap from high horse, jackaling on alologies, and now annoyingly and agressivly stalk Blaze for opinion (even if negative one) just for sake of it.
 

Funny part, that whole this issue is already resovled for all parties (Blaze even admitted, that he gone overboard with this and apologized). I was little bit overjuiced with mortal sins too, yet humbly admitted it too. Other participants were relativly chill.
 
It seems to me our guy just jumped on stage for some posing time in brand new shining armor. Defender of weak, punisher of shitdoers. Yet kinda rolled 1 on d20. 

The OP's comment about toxicity itself being laced with words like "shit-stain" is weapons-grade ironic and really raised a chuckle from me. Classic case of self immolation.
 
As for that other thread...
 
I think many of us at times get a bit too erm... animated... shall we say. Heaven knows I'm one for that.
 
And yes, I think that dropping a link to someone's info was a bit over the top perhaps, but what is this about "private information"?....  If you do a search for novaquark on Linked In or even just Google, you can find anyone who publicly states they work there and their names or pseudonyms are listed for all to see...
People really need to take more responsibility for what they do and show online and remember that online information facing outwards is in the public domain and WILL come back to haunt them in the future.
This is not the same as Doxxing which is digging up private information about someone, like, say having a link to someone's private profile and sharing the private data with everyone via screenshot...
Although, maybe that's what the poster did and it was removed...  that's what censorship does, raises further questions... 
Since JC is the figurehead and the visible face of the company, he -like Sean Murray of Hello Games was- is to an extent fair game though I really would never want to point a finger at anyone specific in the team or any middle management because they, like you and me are really just trying to do their best and earn an honest living under challenging conditions.

Enviromental pressures/motivations to work together in interestic/sci-fi way is horribly missed opportunity. Like hard planets, but great rewards.
Planet with super agressive nano fauna (no even need to make them visible!), that literaly eats equipment/avatars, if not carefully protected via constantly maintained (24/7 no jokes) network of special emitters/domes. Hollow planet, where all resources located 20-30 km underground in immense network of caves, also due magnetic anomanies, map/coordinates not working, yet players can build on site static mapping/radar stations and, via assigned dispatch, help each other (to not get lost). Planet with constant surface 10/10 windstorm, making conventional atmo-flying impossible and challenging players with some specialized ships/lua programms and piloting techiques.  
Its just thing I come up in 15 min. Lot of stuff (with not that challenging implementation) can be done.
 
Such adventures is key to memorable experience and, seed of civilization, not some stupid screw factories JC want us to put in.
 
 
 
 

Thanks for validating the information I brought back from the team, le_souriceau.  It's nice to be able to close that loop.