Violet

I don't mean to interrupt you guys' interesting discussion on algorithms, but I think an equally important discussion to have isn't can we build on moving ships, but should we be able to build on moving ships?
 
Just off the top of my head I can think of several balance issues with this, specifically when it comes to combat. What's to stop people from running around on extra-large ships and replacing/adding weapons mid fight? Or adding armor, shields, thrusters, etc? Even if you disable building while engaged in combat, there's the ability to quickly re-design your ship as soon as you anticipate a fight, which I suppose would depend on the range you can see people, but still. Then you have to worry about transport ships re-tooling for combat right before the pirates show up and start killing them. On the one hand, that could be very interesting gameplay... but how on earth do you manage to balance something like that?
 
Additionally, imagine the economic impact of being able to edit fully functional ships. Why would you ever buy more than 1 ship (or why would there be more than one type of ship on the market) if you can just re-tool them to your specific situation? Without knowing any of the specifics on how ships will work exactly, if you could edit ships at any time, why not just carry around a ton of parts and replace them when you need them? I'd just fly around in my combat ship until I found some nice resources worth mining, and then I'd replace the guns with mining equipment or whatever. Same goes for any specialized ship equipment. If people can do such things, then there stops being a need for ship types that have specific capabilities. Everyone would just buy the most efficiently customizable ship possible and swap things around as needed.
 
Needless to say, I don't like the idea of being able to do this, as it sacrifices a lot in terms of game depth.

God, I think this thread gave me cancer. How entitled do you have to be to expect to play for free.

The point is exactly what you said. They are all in 1 place. Right now I can go to landmark to play with detailed voxels, space engineers or starmade to make spaceships, eve for a continuious play universe, but I have to do the seperatly. DU is giving us 1 game with them combined, plus more. You cant expect them to improve a single technology, while alao tying in a few more.
 
And DU isnt comming up with the single shard idea, what they are doing is combining single shard and single instance using their network algorithm.
 
Also you are assuming they arent doing it better. We havent even played the game yet, 25cm voxel limit doesnt mean better or worse. Remember you arent just building, but also flying these voxels. Let them get the game working, then theres time to add in smaller voxels later. Theres no point in going to a 1cm voxel if theres no game.

The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.
 
In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

If there is no game currency people will naturally tend to use whatever commodity has best value to weight ratio as the thing that they measure everything else against, that's what currency was for most of history, something everyone agreed was valuable.
 
The problem eve has with ISK inflation is that ISK is created when items are sold to an NPC and destroyed when things are brought. Its an open system and ISK is flowing in faster than out. WOW had the same thing but they mitigated by increasing repair costs and selling ever more ridiculous mounts. 
 
The real problem this game will have is resources being mined versus resources destroyed in combat, inflation or deflation will happen based on how much of one versus the other happens, you may also end up with a glut of one material or another. it will be really tricky to manage.
 
Nova quark should leave the players to decide how the economy will run and focus on adjusting the rate of mining versus using up of materials to control major inflation/deflation.
 
Crafting coins, from metals sounds the best especially if it gives some sort of advantage in terms of carrying it. If players then want to create their own paper or electronic currencies I would love to see how that plays out but personally I will be keeping a stash of gold bullion in my safe.

God, I think this thread gave me cancer. How entitled do you have to be to expect to play for free.

we are borg, the metaphorical cultish-space-commies.

Depends how they handle inventories. If you can "delete" items then yeah eventual planets would be whittled away to nothing. If you have to deposit back into the world to clear it from you inventory then people would fill in holes just to get rid of junk or turn it into structures.

The isk inflation had nothing to do when you sell to NPCs in eve, as NPCs didnt buy anything. They gave out quest which injected money, but would never buy items from you on the market. Their market, as DU intends to be, is player driven. 

My guess is the script would work on the PC of the person executing the script.  (vague, I know)
 
Here's an example.
 
You build a kiosk that does "something".  If a player interacted with that kiosk (regardless of whether you're online), the script would execute on their game client.
 
This would also work for ships, and multiplayer ships with consoles that did different things.
 
None of your constructs will disappear after logging off, and players with RIGHTS to access them, may do so.
 
 
I'm not sure about the "Train" example.  Can the train run on a track unattended?  I would think at least one player would need to be riding a train.  OR, the inventor has it run under a game client that never logs off.

the problem is even if you fill in the hole again with dirt it will be a smooth dark brown surface (if i interpret what i have seen in the demos correctly).
i am not asking to smooth out the holes or fill them up or ores to regenerate, but what i would like to see is for grass and trees to regrow (or alternatively the ability to "build" plantlife ourselves)

Eve-Online has a major ingame currency problem, namely, that there is too much of it.  Too much ISK generated and too little ISK sinks.  The issue now shows up with countless amounts of titans ingame.  These are the most expensive ships in game and were originally intended to number a few per alliance.   

Well, testing it and playing it, is another thing. WoW had a trial membership, but it blocked you from playing more than a week and beyond level 10. you had to buy the game so you can go further, like how its expansions work. Testing it's okay, as long as it won't allow the testers to leave the initial system. I won't say planet, cause that's a moot point. The game is all about space, but not interstellar space. They'll have to buy that to experience it.
 
 
I'm also adamant on the Subscription/PLEX system. It is the best option. It allows people with money IRL to support the game and playerbase via gaining in-game money they cannot farm due to having not much time to spend in-game, while peple with a lot of time and limited money get to play the game via in-game economy they can, somehow, manage to thrive in.
 
SUB/PLEX, the best type of game imo. You know a sytem is amazing when WoW copies it.

If you are looking for something to play with Lua while you are waiting for DU try ComputerCraft

api. complicated. cannot connect. both are mutually exclusive.
the thing they have to do is create a log-in system for accessing your personal stuff, and then use a token to access the rest. They may limit these by setting a per second interaction quota. this is really simple stuff, and data integrity can be checked with the bazillion of libraries already existing.
 
Please people, stop saying things are too complicated, because most things aren't. The most complicated thing they do right now is the voxel system, which requires quite complicated algorithms to handle the octree and dual contouring. This includes the physics. and even that is reasonably feasible.
 
be positive, don't limit yourself by underestimated technology.
 
please excuse my frustration.

The fuel requirements to fly that much mass on a planet would be astronomical.
 
Having a large space ship big enough to be a city would be possible but don'e expect the whole thing to land on planets

Thanks. Here the links to the dev-blog posts:
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/07/06/quantum-immortality/
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/10/10/resurrection-node-mechanics/

I would concurr on half. each ore has a different random chemical composition. after that you can extract all different materials in pure form and then synthesize the molecules to generate the materials you need to build the ships. this would not only be quite a depthening experience, but could also tech people about chemistry and even help researchers discover new molecules if the system takes in account actual physics. (like eve did with the cell thing, but in a useful in game way.)
 
But we can go further, instead of requiring one precise molecule, you could need a family of molecules that have different stats depending on the variations, and thus let you the ability to min max it to make the best products you can, imagine a game where there is actual scientific-ish research involved as a game mechanic!

People who just want to build in peace and do some mining will be able to do so in the ark areas. I suspect a lot of early game orgs will have there HQs in the ark areas but their operations out in the world until travel times get too excessive to justify going back and forth.
 
I just hope what happens on long lived multiplayer minecraft servers that the spawn area becomes a strip mined wasteland or an abandoned city of derelict houses doesn't happen to DU.

One possible idea would be to have tiers of resources. The starting planet would only have Tier-1, getting to a moon would get you Tier-2, getting to another planet would get you Tier-3, and so on. The more powerful blueprints would require higher tier materials, and there might be structural limitations on what could be built with lower tier materials (good luck building your skyscraper out of wood). This would organically drive players away from the starter planet.
 
However, the fundamental problem for new players is that the convenient (ie: close to the arkship) materials will all have been mined out.
 
A possible solution to this is that new players are assigned a plot of virgin territory ("40 acres") somewhere on the planet, and given a method of transport between it and the Arkship (a "M.U.L.E.", acryonym TBD). This would give each player resources to exploit at an equal "distance" from the ship. And if you want to build something close to the ship, you'd have to pay rent...
 
Finally, the concept of humanity as a plague of locusts inexorably devouring planet after planet is not a pleasant one (however accurate it might be given our current level of maturity as a species).

Joining an org really is the answer to this.  I tend to be a bit anitsocial from time to time and I'm mostly a solo player.  But after setting up an org and starting to talk about what our plans will be with our members, the role play aspect of it all has become VERY appealing.  Now I simply don't want to play this game alone.  I'm almost even looking forward to griefers when they discover that girl down there building all alone already has reinforcements on the way.  Surprise, surprise...muhahaha. 

Have you met Black Ops? A faction's weaknesses increase with their population. More internal strifes, more people high up belittling lower rank guys in the organisation. This is an actual thing. A faction with 10x people that another faction is simply 10x more prone to infiltration, since they seem to scoop up everyone. 
 
Welcome to the amazing world of sandbox MMOS and its seedy underbelly, where you got sociopaths infiltrating your organisation, befriending you, becoming your friends, just to sabotage you during a siege.
 
What? Will you ban people from entering your org? Will you ask for violations of international law by asking the Devs to give you the IPs of another player?
 
If people are stupid, they will do stupid things. If you see a guy telling "HEY! Give me 100,000 SpaceBucks and I will give you back 200,000  SpaceBucks in a week!", that guy is scamming you and if you fall for it, you are stupid. The Devs can't ban chat, nor they can police people who took advantage of your naivety. 
 
I do take advantage of people's naivety in PvP by bluffing, should I be banned to be prevented from exploting a guy's inability to grasp game mechanics and acting too soon? Should I be banned because I keep running and drawing my foes into ambushes around corners?
 
No. A sandbox game has a sort of PvP unseen in other titles like WoW or whatever Korean MMO aside from Lineage 2. Economic Warfare. It's essentially, trolling the market to create monopoly. What, should it also be banned because people have no idea how money works?
 
And the problem with a zerg is you gotta buy in bulk player-wise. Zergs are the easiest way to sabotage your own organisation in the long run.
 
So what, will you ask for instances to be in the game to prevent an "unfair" fight? If you do, you miss the point of DUAL as a game.
 
And as of a last point, the combat system in conjunction with the way the server treats updates to the player is the strategic value.  You can read up on the devblogs, see how they explain it in their youtube videos, and you'll see that being a pirate is not an easy thing in DUAL. It's in fact, an actual high risk, high reward business. And this is also why Zergs don't work. The fleets will need tactics, Zergs have NO tactics, just pell mell charge against the enemy.
 
 

Maybe it would be simple if everybody would be more or less on the same level power wise but what about when faction A is 10x or more faction B? Faction B could ally itself or something but zergs will always rule at the end.
Imo it would be so much better if there would be a game mechanic that would actually make consider pros and cons of attacking someone form a strategically point of view and not just for the lulz of it.
Balancing a game play well is far away from "simple" and something most MMOs are still trying to achieve.

Griefers I can deal with, when it get's offensive or abusive then you have to draw the line.

I don't want an EVE Online duplicate with the Goonswarm mentality.