Umibozu
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Posts
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Posts posted by Umibozu
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13 minutes ago, Burble said:
I'm just trying to keep the mood a bit light. The forum here is so fkin dark all day. It is not representative of the total player base. I see positive interactions every day in the game and people having fun.
But just look down this forum and there are endless threads where players are telling (if not outright demanding) that NQ design the game the way they have figured it all out. It's embarrassing how arrogant the forum shows us to be right now. If I was the developer I would never look here again. Mistakes happen, it is only a game. If someone seriously wants to quit, then go for it. I'm sad to see a player leave and I'm sad that a player ended with a sour taste.
Self fulfilling prophesy. That is all that can be achieved from 90% of what happens on this forum.I will explain why ppl are angry today , using myself as an example:
after 0.23 patch, i had to spend 200 mil quanta on schematics to get my warp cell/warp drive factory running again.
the decided to go for long grind for warp beacon production line:
Schematics/ rare industry units cost me around 450 mil quanta. then managed to accumulate 500 mil towards warp beacon schematic.
Long painful grind , hours of mining/hauling / market trading sometimes even at a cost of sleep , as I am an adult with real life responsibilities.
1 Billion 150 million quanta ,I have accumulated at a cost of many many hours ,was yesterday reduced to 11.5 million. Instead of being one of the few making beacons , i have nothing , when some have it for free.
How can i be happy and understanding?
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2 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:
And upper management does not see anything wrong with that lmao
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With one decision WHOLE purpose of 0.23 patch was just nullified, making very small part of player base very rich, with immediate access to end game items without any investment.
I have been patient since day 1 of the Beta. put up with mistakes , bugs, 5 months without new content, but this .... this is a last straw for me.
NO, you cant have my stuff
Take care
- HangerHangar and Hazaatan
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7 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:
This is a spat in the face of hard working, grinding our asses of, rule abiding players. I have been grinding for a effing month to be one the very few to make beacons, im a nowhere near enough quanta as schematics cost 841 mil for beacon alone. And some shits get those for free , because Devs mistake . Novaquark credibility and reputation has hit rock bottom.
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Hey,
1. Resources are finite, but it will be a long time before they run out.
2. One can design factory to be fully automated from ore refining to final product, thats it, no mining bots
3. One can claim a territory/ies on planets/moons, create yes, automate no. It has been stated there wont be any sort of automation of anything.
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18 minutes ago, XKentX said:
The former is cheap tactic that should be fixed by disabling container access and build mode while in combat and the later is perfectly fine tactic to sabotage enemy ships with my spies.
Scorched Earth tactic is not cheap, it has been used for centuries to deter/ slow down enemy from advancing and deny them any spoils of war.
- Maxim Kammerer and Warlander
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16 minutes ago, Shredder said:
When compared to the start of eve online this game is balanced massively in the favour of people wanting to avoid fights. Even if the safe zone was removed. It’s kinda ridiculous. People might read the above and go ‘well those options are hassle’. But the more hassle or risk there is, the greater the rewards will end up being. I find it bizzare that NQ don’t seem to want to allow pvp to occur.
Firstly ,can not call ganking Cargo ships PVP, secondly no armor will save one from well armed pirate. Thirdly, this whole topic is a consequence of so called Pvpers killing everything that moves without regards to the people on the receiving end, which in turn driven everyone, who didnt loose everything with the ship and quit as a result , to use warp drives.
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Multiboxing is not allowed, one can have multiple accounts but can run ONE account on 1 computer at any given time
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54 minutes ago, Zychov said:
I have the same problem but it stil doesn't work for me. Even after Chcanging shadows from none to low
lower thread count to half of your total
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3 hours ago, Burble said:
Yes, the support channel sometimes gets crowded with non support writings. But...what I have seen is that many players are actively helping each other due to the whole server being on one channel. Separate that and no one who can help a new player will be in the support channel. There is no way NQ can answer to the 25 questions per minute that are currently being handled easily by the whole community.
Thats why we asked for community support and global, and possibility to split chats, so we can talk about anything on global, watch community support in case someone needs help with in game questions, and leave current Support channel for NQ staff
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New DRM System is missing an option to DELETE the protected scripts and install new ones if we want to.
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2 hours ago, Wildcard64 said:
I would like to set a counter point to wiping the economy. I believe Xennial is right in the fact that we would see a massive drop in ore prices with the removal of bots, but I don't we that this would be a bad thing. The drop in ore prices I believe would spur more manufacturing by which would reduce the cost of elements in the end. This could be very beneficial with the current 3 live and your element is out a reduction of price on said items would be a useful thing. Also the reduction of price would mean that one would have to actually not have to try as hard to be able to build ships which would help increase the pvp aspect.
I do understand there there is the large gate of schematics for production, and this would need to be addressed in some way there would be several ways to address this but the easiest would be to make it player craft able.
I agree with penwith that life is not fair and we shouldn't aim to make it fair. I do believe that you should be able to get out what you put in. To make life easier for the casual player we already have a way to help with that, they are called organizations. When you pool your effort big tasks become easier, say you want to make wrap drive get enough people together then everyone only puts in a little effort and you have a full production line. But we cant crank out a drive from everyone at once, that fine they are casual players they can wait a little bit right?
So far I have stayed solo and I have no complaints about the game, minus the beta bug issues but hey its beta. That being said if you can get the markets going that can actually help the solo player because now I can make one said component and make money and not have to rely on a huge org to get my stuff. And until the markets become more useful and higher used the only way a player will succeed is in an org as there is not a huge drive for orgs to sell on the market. They will make the stuff they need, and to make quick money just sell the ore. There is no major drive to sell components or completed items.
Because this is a game I think it is even more appt to be able to be the perfect market, because there are factor we don't have to take into account. But i would argue that the taxes that are collected in real life are still driving the economy because they don't make money just disappear the same way bots do. When we pay property tax and that goes for the fire department, guess what that money goes to the fire fighters that then spend that money for things in their life and the fire department buy fire trucks. Bot buy ores and the ore goes poof and money comes from an invisible pit, and you buy a schematic and you get something pulled outa thin are and that money goes poof!
I still don't see how bots are helping.
Right now building meaningful sized factory requires effort, before patch one could start manufacturing beacons few days after starting the game
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22 minutes ago, Jaface said:
The way I see it, "bots" exist in one way or another in almost every MMO. For instance, you can sell items in World of Warcraft to an NPC vendor. In the early days of its economy, this is how money was injected into the economy. Eventually, there was enough money that players started offering more than vendors for certain goods.
There are a few differences in DU:
First, it's integrated into the market UI (auction house). This is purely a plus, since it stops people from offering less than the minimum amount than turning around and selling it to the bots/npcs, effectively scamming new ignorant players out of some money.
Second, which is a debatable difference, is that the buy/sell prices are identical. In most other MMOs there's a substantial markup for buying items, typically between 2x and 10x. I'm not an economist so I don't know the macro impacts on the market, but this basically means players will never trade with each other for the affected goods, only with bots.
Lastly, the bots only deal with entry-level ores rather than a large number of otherwise useless items (aka vendor trash). As mentioned previously in the thread, this basically turns the market into a gold-standard economy, except the "gold" in this case is something that you can walk into your back yard and find strewn about randomly.
I believe the result will be hyper-inflation up to the point that the value of quanta is about on par with the effort required to dig up T1 ore. Basically get ready for 1B quanta to be pocket change.
I agree with you except last sentence, 1b never be pocket change,
First: bots with 25g/l for t1 is just temporary, normal price is 12q., players been offering more for a long time .
Two: Schematics are going to suck up large amounts of quanta for very long time
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It seems that some of you didnt do the math, so lets begin.
As i stated earlier at this point quanta generation is achieved in 2 ways, ore bot orders and welfare checks.
On the other side , patch 0.23 added massive quanta sink in form of schematics.
let us use me as example: i have spend about 450 mil on schematics to date which equals to 3000 welfare checks of 150k.
Assuming server has 9000 active accounts that spends the quanta , 3 ppl like myself , removes total amount equaling to daily welfare checks of whole server.
so multiplying that to 300 ppl /orgs spending 450 mil on average on schematics is going to remove 100 days of welfare checks generated by 9000 accounts.
Add to that rest of the active population buying schematics in lesser amounts ,
Remove the bots without adding any other meaningful ways of quanta injection, the economy in about 2 weeks will come to complete stop as everyone will be waiting for their welfare check to be able to buy anything.
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9 minutes ago, Wildcard64 said:
Instead of selling to bots you would be selling to other players, one could still make money, if there was an over abundance of an ore it would drive down prices. This would then lead to the opening of making money based on moving ore from one market to another. would it not?
Bots inject quanta into the economy,currently it only source of it not counting welfare checks, Schematics on the other hand take massive amount of quanta out if the economy.
Remove bots and very quickly there will be no quanta in circulation
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8 minutes ago, OmegaWeapon said:
you absolutly right, update is bad
I would like to point out, that schematic prices have been readjusted, and as it stand now, prices are affordable to everyone.
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54 minutes ago, July01 said:
Hi, you honor your profession as an industrialist to sell it for a fair price, making it profitable and not undermine others.
I am not only one who observed that lastly the market prices on Alioth are not reflecting the real production costs for some items. That's a fact.That may be because some corp or long time playing individuals have access to huge amount resources without having to pay the high price (24-25 quantas per unit).
Thing is, to be able to sell a batch in a decent amount of time, I may need also to lower the prices very low. As I still mine mostly what is required for the production, I don't make a pure loss. Still this is not a viable way to do long term business. Market resource pricing should reflect ore offer/demand at some point.Ship building will require parts ok... but once you own ships of each and every size/purpose, what else would do you buy? You have limited number of cores anyway. So the demand would be up to new players/accounts joining or those who ventures in the non-safe PvP area?
Ship parts have to eventually die, or/and to get a penalty/malus by loosing performances/features. So you may want to replace them by brand new ones. I crashed ships, know the pain, took days and lot of money to repair when all was destroyed. Still that makes this game realistic, not forcefully fun (somehow depressing to be honest) but with experience and stories to tell. No pain, no gain. ?
If the prices do not reflect a real production cost, i see possible business opportunity, and if market price goes below profitable margin i stop producing
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2 hours ago, Underhook said:
Thanks for your experienced view on the situation. Regarding skill points. I'm pretty sure they are going to have to reset them again as they just moved the goal posts again.
i would suggest not waiting , just filing a ticket arguing that you have followed JC recommendation and adjusted your skills outside crafting professions due to very high cost of schematics, and now those have been changed again, so youre back to having more options. Request talent skill point reset
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20 minutes ago, July01 said:
Hi,
I completely agree with that.
The prices on the T1 schematics have been fair for most items (probably not for furniture). At least it gives a real challenge and goals, and you can start and progress from scratch and slowly evolve to get bigger and bigger. Making it easier now would just undermine the 0.23 update very purpose imho.
I produce modestly ship parts and sell them to the market. The item destructions allowed at least a good turn-over and good demand on those ship parts. Removing it (but for PvP) would kill some businesses, and that new born economy.
Beside that, the 24-25 quantas bots buying ore (temporary), just kill the market. Basically it is much more profitable if I would sell my non-refined ore to the bots instead of spending the time and efforts to invest in schematics, industry building and hours manufacturing, or even trading.
I think the more you try to control the player-driver economy, the more you may ruin it.I don't mind adapting to new rules. I appreciate the efforts, the intents NQ's team brings and what they achieved so far. However nothing would revert and heal what the 0.23 patch did, but time. It is better to move on, and to continue on a mostly straight line instead of reverting, and possibly hurting back those who tried to adapt.
Thank you for reading.
Keep on the great work!Industrialists like myself calculate our product prices, but taking into account ore prices, we do the math real time when the basic ore prices fluctuate, either by using excel sheets, or doing math on paper( oldskool way), so we never sell below production cost , your argument here is not valid.
When part destruction be limited to pvp, and RDM blunders fixed, community will get back to ship designing and building, so parts are going to be needed anyway.
We do require on case by case basis, reseting talent points, as some ppl spend their point differently due to massive impact of Death patch 0.23. Now when changes are being readjusted , those might want to get back to crafting, so that Talent reset request should be an option from this point onwards
- ChrizzPi, July01 and Maxim Kammerer
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26 minutes ago, WakeRider said:
So you guys at NQ still do not get it at all!
I completely agree with the vision of a community working together. Good plan.
Capital costs in the way of schematics no matter how high will not help and will actually hurt your goal. Look at warp cell prices that are already back at or under production cost.
If you want to accomplish this you must have a mechanism to either limit total production by accountable to or increase the incremental cost of items as the factory run by an account gets larger.
That way someone that makes nothing but screws can do it at a really low cost but if you wanna do everything to make a L atmosphere it is slightly more expensive, and if you wanna build a AGG all buy yourself it it terribly inefficient.
If you did that and tied the limits to accounts it would not only drive your goal but also drive subscriptions. Win win!
Warp cell prices are fine, my production cost is way below current market price
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"Element destruction will impact the restoration count only when it occurs through PvP, at least for now (not when the ship is colliding/falling as we want to avoid having players penalized simply for crashing their ships because they’re learning how to maneuver them, for example). "
Ships do not explode when you maneuver them , they explode because server " thinks" construct is in one place, where according to the client side it is in different location, in other words, it is a desync issue.
When we crash due to our mistakes we get on and fix them, when it explodes due to poorly coded game we ask for help, simple.
Do not shift the blame on Us, fix the problem instead.
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"We will keep monitoring the price of schematics to see if it makes sense to increase or decrease the costs. The right approach to set such a price would be to evaluate how much time it takes to recoup your investment by selling the products that the schematics allow to produce. It should be a few months so that the investment is a real commitment and it makes sense to plan for it. We currently lack the metrics to properly assess this return on investment time. We need a player-driven market price for the components and a market price for the products to assess the profit made by each run of a schematic. This will come when the markets start to work as intended, and we can gather more data about them. "
I am glad for the changes, it feel nice to be heard. but one thing worries me, because you do not seem to get it.
- NOONE and i mean NOONE will be selling components, it is inefficient and not profitable( Just by delivering them to the market profit will be eaten by fuel costs).
For little bit more investment in production line structure, they are going to always bring more profit turned into final product.
I would like to see current schematics to be reimbursed.
I would like to see those new proposed schematics pricing BEFORE they will get implemented please.
ATV needs to be disbanded immediately, and possibly looked into for information leaks, as Gottchar mentioned.
Overall good decision.
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I forgot to mention one more thing, to have a meaningful size factory , i calculated that i require minimum of 130 hours of mega node mining , and i need to do this before next patch nerf to container link distance.
So, when is the game getting rolled back?
in General Discussions
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Exactly, i was not doing to it for the quanta , i could have and been making more thru other means, i took it as a challenge to build ,most expensive schematic wise, warp beacon production line as a solo player, to achieve something similar to what you have done.
Im not a builder, so could not build an amazing racing track, or good looking ship(s), went for something im good at, which is being merchant/crafter.
To get me back to playing rollback would be sufficient, not the free quanta or schematics as compensation. What is the point having those , when everyone else has them too, in a game , where we are encouraged to specialize.