Warlander

LOL.. Clearly you have not  been paying attention, you and NQ seem to make a good couple as you act alike
 
Many have been addressing the many issues with this patch for weeks, NQ just choose to ask for feedback early on and never cared to even engage or consider any of it, outside of removing scans . Mostly "you just do not understand" applies here and no doubt ion  a few weeks we wil get another "we heard you" post, pretending all of this is new to NQ.

At bare minimum:
T1 needs to be 1000l/h
T2 needs to be 500l/h
T3 needs to be 250l/h
T4 needs to be 125l/h
T5 needs to be 75l/h
 
With talents to increase that 100% with T5 talents.
 
And then thats bare minimum status quo of what you could get now that VR is dead.
 
This type of system for infinte ore only works if you add sinks to take ore and elements out of the game via destructive elements, or using the new efficiency system for constantly runing things to do actual damage since efficiency=HP since the more damage the less efficnecy. Without those types of sinks in the game the economy stagnates or grinds to a halt.
 
With those sinks you can raise MU output to however high and pace it with the items and ore leaving the game. The taxes only serve to address the mission system and since they killed missions with 0.27 there will be lots of money leaving the game with not as much coming in.
 
And in general the old mining system was like a lottery anyways since whatever was on the player scanner could be anything from 2kl-1mil+kl. With MUs this static garbage vs simulating what the old mining system was with nodes the MUs either collectively or solo node mining with random sizes and l/h would have made more sense without having to babysit MUs and micromanage efficiency like a chineese sweat shop. When MUs were supposed to be an extension of mining when pitched and not replace the system outright.

Yeah whats the harm in having MUs on ships since the ore is infinite and its not digging holes if you are collecting ore while you scan at random or parking a ship somewhere to auto mine if nobody owns it since ore is intinite and hurts nothing as long as it is physically on the ground.

We discussed it for a week or two as we weighed out the pros/cons of playing. And lol I have been talking about it non stop where have you been? 
 
Been talking about all their idiotic changes and how they undevelop or redevelop things they already developed or removing things they develop since I got here. They seem to be destroying this game piece by piece to eventually push everyone out the door to huck this as a game (platform) and ride all the subs and the game into the ground to develop their platform so that when the game fails in a year when they march to launch and it bombs people cant sue them into oblivion like Chronicles of Elyria for not delivering a finished product and they come out smelling like roses to then pitch their platform to studios and investors.
 
I hope everyone is enjoying their tech demo while it lasts.
 
 

At bare minimum:
T1 needs to be 1000l/h
T2 needs to be 500l/h
T3 needs to be 250l/h
T4 needs to be 125l/h
T5 needs to be 75l/h
 
With talents to increase that 100% with T5 talents.
 
And then thats bare minimum status quo of what you could get now that VR is dead.
 
This type of system for infinte ore only works if you add sinks to take ore and elements out of the game via destructive elements, or using the new efficiency system for constantly runing things to do actual damage since efficiency=HP since the more damage the less efficnecy. Without those types of sinks in the game the economy stagnates or grinds to a halt.
 
With those sinks you can raise MU output to however high and pace it with the items and ore leaving the game. The taxes only serve to address the mission system and since they killed missions with 0.27 there will be lots of money leaving the game with not as much coming in.
 
And in general the old mining system was like a lottery anyways since whatever was on the player scanner could be anything from 2kl-1mil+kl. With MUs this static garbage vs simulating what the old mining system was with nodes the MUs either collectively or solo node mining with random sizes and l/h would have made more sense without having to babysit MUs and micromanage efficiency like a chineese sweat shop. When MUs were supposed to be an extension of mining when pitched and not replace the system outright.

I have to say Demeter pretty much sucks so far.
 
After spending eight hours scanning I found one hex that only sucks badly and a bunch of hexes that suck horribly. I grabbed the one that sucks badly, cause I don't have any reason to think I'll find anything better. If the ore market doesn't collapse it might pay it's own taxes. Fun on a scale of 1 to 10: -5 (that's minus 5).
 
The calibration minigame isn't as much fun as hand mining... by a long shot.
 
My friend found a hex that could produce 60kl coal per week... under optimal conditions... and said "not bad". (That does suck less than anything I found). He used to mine 600kl in a couple of hours. Slow production 100 fold and what happens? Economic collapse.
 
Not optimistic.
 
 

Where's the fun? More of a slog than the old mining simulator.

I have a question if any one knows they sed in the video no limit two building yet what are they planing two limit us two 
I had a feeling that this was next
(taking the route of landmark fast )

Most of the patches they have done seem to be what was left in the pipeline from when those systems were being developed until their buget forced NQ to rush them out chalked full of more and more bugs, perfoance drops, red tape, sinks, epxloits, etc. Then it seems like the new CEO came in and saw what was really going on behind the curtain and was like mining needs to go, we need more for paying subs, and rush this flop tomarket so we can milk the freeloaders for subs and really pitch it as the metaverse platform JC origionally wanted to huck as a tech demo for perspective studios or investors.

I don't understand why NQ is making so many drastic short sighted design changes without fixing the core of the game.

I have played this game for over 1 year now and have only seen them take features and ruin mechanics without seeing them fully realized. All while at the same time ignoring basic QOL features like what I mentioned.

 

 

 

 
 

 

 
 
 
Why are you trying to kill your "game" (or whatever is left that you want to call a "game")?

Hi all, Just got up. So if my time zones are correct, the server comes up in 1 hour?

- save the exploited money
- once the game launches buy DACs with that money
- use those DACs and get lots of months of gametime
- exploit the system further to self sustain these accs with little to no effort
- profit

My point overall is we are in violent agreement, none of us want to see dead planets with abandoned of junk all over. Where I take issue is when the system punishes someone with gaming goals that are community based trying to build an event location for player created gameplay, and logs in nearly every day for two years. (the very concept we were sold on). Especially when it doesn't solve the problem the Dev's are trying to fix, people exploiting the game and hurting future players. 

I had before this update my little tiny pocket of the universe. (approximately 0.0026% of it.) People get all up in arms about me being a land hoarder, when we know damn well there are people exploiting the game in various ways the dev's aren't doing a thing about, that hold billions of quanta and hundreds of tiles just to lock other players out of resources.

Pretty sure I'm not the problem, so I get pretty salty when people act like I am ruining their gameplay, when I had dedicated so much time to trying to make a place that could give them more to do than scoop ore.

( Also yes I took a couple months off at one point to take a break from DU due to RL life schedule, just want to throw this in there before some petty asshole goes digging up some old post or something somewhere, saying... YOU DIDN'T LOG IN EVERY DAY!!!!) ?

 

I vote NO for taxes i dont wanna seat on Sactyary end login once a day for 150k to be able to pay land tax for single hex,this patch is a game killler.
End i dont wanna hear comments from guis who seat on one tile end picking up some ore stones from syrface you guis will be ok nothing to loose.

A player who just wanted to build something could just play as he wanted. There was no direct compulsion to do something because you had to, but only because you wanted to.
 
Once upon a time:
-> Player A builds a building for 1 year and this fulfils this player, it is fun. He builds and goes to collect his own ores as needed.
 
Current:
-> Player A builds a building for 1 year and this fulfils this player, it is fun. He builds and goes to collect his ores as needed. However, he still has to sell some of his ores or fly missions to buy schematics, otherwise he cannot produce all the honeycombs he wants to use.
 
Demeter: 
-> Player A builds a building for 1 year and this fulfils this player, it is fun. He builds and goes to collect his ores himself as needed. 
However, he still has to sell some of his ores or fly missions to buy schematics, otherwise he cannot produce all the honeycombs he wants to use.
He must now also sell some of his ores on the market and/or fly more missions to pay taxes. Collecting ores is then only possible via asteroids: So he needs a ship or he needs modern mining units and has to spend some time on a repetitive mini-game. Likewise, he must now have an active subscription at all times so that one does not suffer a loss of all earned content.
 

Thats some "by the power of friendship" BS if i ever heard it^^ The trust i talked about isn't limited to "do i trust that player as person" but more like "can i trust another player to log in weekly to pay the taxes for the hex". Because there are loads of reasons why that person might not be able to login anymore even tho he wants to, be it monetary or health reasons, or whatever. And losing a build you worked months on because of something like that is a matter thats just a no-go. 
 
With the tax system DU basically removed the creative build mode. Until now builders participated a lot in the economy by buying ores, HC or elements. Now that might drastically reduce, because builders can't "just work" on their project anymore.
For example i'll have to tear down my temple building, because its on a hex of someone who can't log in:
 

 
It might not be the prettiest building, but it still did take quite a lot of time. With their taxes NQ effectively reduces the amount of landmarks ppl might want to visit or which they could advertise.

First of all we both know you can see a lot further than 1 tile, so don't be a troll. Secondly, not every player wants to build a large location based project. But what I was doing was protecting my view from someone putting a damn ugly penis space tower right off my front porch which happened to me and was why I moved to BFE of Alioth.

Now since you want to crap on me about my resort and tell me to "do the math" on how unrealistic I was for wanting to have a goal that doesn't revolve around hoarding quanta and flying the biggest penis in the space/sky, consider this...

1. Alioth has 259,472 territories not 60,000... (looks like you yourself can't do math).

2. Between all 12 planets you have approximately 730,000 - 750,000 tiles in the solar system not counting moons, which they themselves have 3,000 - 5,000 tiles each. So you have enough tiles for 37,500 players to have 20 a piece. Considering EVE online has 22,000 active players... you would be talking about DU being twice as popular as Eve.

This also excludes the 111,632 territories which we can all have one of on Sanctuary... which only 41,455 have ever been claimed....

3. I never protested having taxes, I protest the rates cause I don't want to slave to the game and optimize my real life schedule around in game timers to maintain what I spent two years to build.

4. Additionally unlike you and those that exploit the mission system for self gain, I am not here to play Alt Universe.

Looks like my math is pretty solid, at least way better than yours...

 

I have to agree that this game has had an identity crisis for a good while now.
The lore and the voxel technology for this game, was all made to enable a "rebuild civilization" MMO. That was THE main description and parameter for this game when it was introduced. But sadly there is not much left of that now. We havn't gotten a new tool/functionality for building civilizations since, well forever.
And so naturally the game has no direction. It is less and less a building game, it can only marginally be called a trading game, exploring is only skin deep, it does not have PVE and it sucks at PVP.

Checkmate NQ.
 
I think it summed this situation up when Pann said we have two groups asking to delete scans or keep them and we dont want to wipe their hard work and we have a situation where are are caught in the middle and dont want to cut the baby in half. To which I say you might not want to cut the baby in half as you are attempting to strangle it in the crib when in reality its not even born yet and all of it is hypthetical to begin with.
 
Demeter exposes fundamental critical flaws in their initial flawed game design under JC's helm that pretty much developed them into a corner that is game ending to the point that it will require a complete rework if not ground up rebuild to make DU feasable going forward.
 
Why? (TLDR version)
 
JC had a failed vision and hired a bunch of yes men/women who followed him and continue to keep following his misunderstanding of what is was they were trying to emulate and not make it their own. Going with a voxel game not bothing to do the research that it sounds good but is still not technically feasable in terms of data costs, internet bills, and performance and not knowing it would limit a space game to a single solar system since any additional solar system basically compounds the problem rather than using a hybrid of static mesh worlds you can build voxels onto in order to have enough performance to justify expansions. Then inviting the building communities of the failed games the tried Voxelization with the promise of Space Landmakr combined with Space engineers. The builder community killed any chance of PvP and the PvP community killed off the builders along with new players. Setting unrealistic expectations for mega orgs by feeding them and not establishing factions instead and doubling down by constantly feeding then misunderstanding that not limiting them and being forced to put out feeble attempts to slow them down while crushing everyone else with misguided updates that take out more then is added to the game. Because of all of that now needoing to pivot and remove and limit mining in order to cut costs to up performance, add a vertex tool that takes from that performance, and then fill it back up with hundreds of thousands more TU's, miners, containers, transfer units, machines to produce them, and making the world more desolate. At the same time not understanding that Taxes didnt work in the first place with the Finite Resource pool then turning it Infinite when the game was not designed for it which forced the Ore to be made more "Rare and less Propigated" which further compounds the issues since anyone 6 months from now that comes back will likely never play anything higher than a T1-2 version of the game since that is the only ore they will ever get and the progression they will experience. Taxes yet again meant to slow down mega orgs that further creates unbalance since NQ wont get rid of scans and they will instantly take all the tiles worth anything and make more than they are taxed while everyone else experiences the full weight of the tax and forced to pay for it with T1 mats which wont be worth anything since everyone will be doing the same thing with dwindling returns and a limited production of ore since there are more sinks than influx to the system. NQ now making the game based on Ore Per Month to align with their sub model which makes it as such as you now have to mine asteroids once per week or run missions to cover tax, and log in to use charges and beyond that there is no reason to actually play the game. Because of that it makes it so that production of consumables like space gas, warp cells, and even scrap will be in short supply since people will need to sell ore for tax and they will be the only thing worth anything since this update completely negates the need for atomospheric parts since spacestations are not taxed and all content is space based now.  Ore transfers will take a year of subs to get a full container of ore so PvP will suffer even if people are forced to slow boat between planets except for this with ore monopolies which will use warp cells with their ship scanning scripts on XS ships to hunt for anyone to kill until nobody goes between planets except for VR. When people start to default on their taxes and the month after demeter goes live and those people have nothing to come back to there is no need to play at all and they will tell their friends to write this game off. Which will force NQ to knee jerk forced updates like Territory wars since nobody is playing, building, moving ore, traveling, fighting, and those with ore monopolies roll over everything that still remains its game over since there is litterally nothing left and you let them win the game long ago.  
There are no moves left NQ is willing to do that can take them out of checkmate, they simply just dont have a budget to rebuild the game from the ground up. They have developed themselves into a corner starting with the conception and direction JC took this game down.
 
And with the comment of we dont want to cut the baby in half it shows that NQ will never reign in mega orgs that have and will continue to kill the game since NQ knows where their bread is buttered and keeps feeding them. Funny since most of them are likely alpha backers who will never pay them a cent through their packages and armed with 3 beta keys that wont pay them until launch.
 
The taxes are aimed at them since they have been spoon fed this whole time by the devs who dont know how to punish them properly to slow them down and arbitrarily do things like say "hahaha boohoo you dont want to pay taxes" and at the same time hand them all the resources and prevent everyone else from getting them going forward or progressing beyond a T2 version of this game since the ore is rare and even sparse then before and all the metadata they are using is based on them with a flat tax when misunderstanding they are handing them all the T3+ ore which makes all their tiles profitable since everyone else will be sitting on T1 tiles and lucky if you can even find a T2 ore tile and stuck with all the taxes aming it not worth putting down a TU.
 
The real issue nobody is even considering is that because the planets and moons are all voxel based and not a static mesh the Voxel construct of the planetary bodies no longer matters at all and it was the sole reason we are stuck in a cramped solar system in the first place since it is not feasable to have anything beyond it and so we are just grasping at straws and trying to punish ourselves even more for no reason. If there were multiple solar systems, deep space, or a universe to spread out in none of this would matter. But the plan was always to ransack this solar system and then open up jump gates you can spawn camp so that mega orgs could have their own solar system to themselves and wield infinite ore against the server anyhow which always sounded dumb to begin with when everyone is stuck with a picked over carcass to fight back with.
 
The only thing that will save this game is a full rebuild from the ground up but seeing the mediocre dev team they have and the things they are deadset on actually making seem to me they are incapable of doing that unless they clean house and bring in actually MMO developers.

I enourage everyone to post your idea of the changes you think need to be made to DU to actually turn this thing around while remaining constructive and positive.
 
This is a list of things I have been compiling and without all the commentary.
 
This is a list of changes that must happen to make this patch work going forward.
 
Orgs:
Orgs should be given Population Caps / to limit the damage they can do to the game. Org Exp Caps for specific talent trees to create a well balanced organization similar to a salary cap for hockey/sports teams in order for Orgs to be forced to choose who they want to keep, axe, or bring in. Orgs should have Tile limits to how much land they can grab via talents like Cores in how many TU's they can put down and the influence of the game they are allowed to control.  
Taxes:
Taxes need to be based on individual planets/moons and not across the board since different tiles on different planetary bodies are not all created equal. Taxes need to be based on what is actually in each individual tile and not across the board. Being stuck with a T1 ore tile is not the same as someone bogarting T5 ore tiles and reflect the ores available into the tax. Taxes in general should not be just some kind of floating number that is injected into the economy and deleted when paid. Taxes need to go into a NQ master quanta org account and then used to pay for missions to not just creating endless quanta and inflation. Using availability of taxes per planet/moon to fun missions and paying more/less average taxes coming in with a fluctuating average of what they pay out by how many missions are being run with realisitc supply/demand availibility. If nobody runs missions they are worth more or if too many are running them they go down to an average base pay to put taxed quanta back intot he game.  
TUs:
The actual seeding of ore does not actually matter anymore either and making things rarer and sparsely populated makes things worse. This patch should have introduced TUs with Grades (XS-L) and Rarity (Basic-Unique) in which you could buy up larger clusters of tiles (1/7/13/19 ect) with Rarity playing into higher tier ores it adds, Rate of ore gained by rarity, and the actual bonus given per cluster with an imposed total cluster limit like cores via talents you can drop by the Grade each planet will let you drop to limit land grabs.  
Mining Units:
Requiring hundreds of mining units and Tiles is the wrong direction by going with Less=More when it should be about doing more with less tiles and limiting landgrab monopolies vs prospecting. Mining units should allow players to instead of progressing their talent tree to hit pause on talents and use that Experience to prospect mining units individually to inceeae yields baked into individual elements. Or doubling or trippling the output of mining units in general to allow for progression to happen and allow people to actually have more fun playing the game rather than playing an IRS Repo Tax sim. Or there needs to be actual org based Industrial mining rigs that allow orgs to actually generate a realistic amount of resources per hour to play the game rather than requiring hundreds if not thousands of Tiles being purchased. The charge system needs to be swapped out with an active mining function where players use the mining unit to actively mine a 2D surface and find and mine sprite based nodes and make it an active activity or if nobody is there it auto mines.  
Ore/Seeding:
The ore should not be made rarer or sparsely populated with infinitely finite L/h rates we have now. Everyone needs a chance to actually experience progression. Every Planet should have at least the ability to create space fuel with the necessary ore to do so. Every planet should have a spread of T1-T5 ore that makes some aspect of parts and have the ore they need to make those planets important. All planets and moons should have all ore types seeded in regions around the planet so that a planet can wage war against another planet so that certain planets arent better then others. The quantitiy of the tiles with ore or the amount gained on each planet should be the main factor but each planet should be relatively self sufficient. Ore Rates P/h need to be increased x5-10 what they are not to allow for progression, production, expansion.  
Scanners:
Scanners should have a depth range attached to each ore type and ore tier that allows people to scan on the ground to detect ore. If using AGG scanning you can only see what is there below you to a certain extent limiting land grabs if they are just passing through rather than landing and scanning especially if they are using ships that cant fly unless they use AGG. Scanners should also require the Mining Charges since it deals with mining to opperate the scanners so that it limits land grabs by only scanning 10 tiles every 35 hours since it is part of mining. Asteroid scanners should also rely on auto mining charges to cut down on the number of asteroids you can mine every 35 hours since it is part of mining.  
Sinks:
Property Tax works to an extent but it should be dialed back by at least 50% Destructive Elements should be re-introduced to keep the economy flowing now that resources are unlimited. Usage of Elements should cause damage as a slow dot for engines, AGG, hoverpads, Warp Drives, hoverpads, industry elements, and even miners where they constantly run or while they are being used in either a form of overheating causing damage or a wear and tear baseed sink. Single use damage sink where if you use a door, seat, screen, etc it causes a small amount of damage each time that should require repairs every once in a while.  
Missions:
Using the Tax apparatus as a NQ master Org quanta bank account per planet as the driver for missions and use supply/demand surplus to pay base price or paying more beased on taxes collected. Making missions driven on actual work orders on collected taxes like getting paid to mine ore, then work orders for industrialists to make specific items, then creating transport missions of actual items to mission locations (markets that are understocked), and also paying PvPers to fly escorts, and also PvP missions to intercept those resources. Typing the Market Bids/Deliveries to the missions to the work order system/Mission System.  
Talents:
Clone the Talent system and add a new talent tab for an Organization Talent System with its own experience pool called "Research Points". Every player would have an independent personal Tab but in whatever Org you are in the individual Org Research Contribution would be added together in what individual Org Perks they want to research that makes it so if you change orgs it deduct the research from the old org and applies it to the new one. Org Research should be for things like prospecting (improving ore outputs on tiles for each type of ore), Core/TU limits, Caps (pop/exp caps by exp tree), Industry (Element caps, processing boosts, output boosts), and whatever else is needed.  
Loyalty Program / Login Bonus:
Every Consecutive Day you log in the L/H output on all ores increases by 1 with no upward limit. If you dont log in the bonus is reset. Every Day you log in you get additional Rewards like Elements, Skins, Voxel boxes, Rations, Gas Cards, Etc that rotate each month or some kind of Loyalty credit version of quanta that can be used to choose what sorts of supplies or rations you want. Consecutive Logins reduce Tax rates by 0.01% with some kind of upward limit. I do intend to keep adding via edits.

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so now we are telling people how to play,,,it is easy to meet the 1m weekly cost per tile and you just need to do the following to achieve this.....once a game introduces a need to play a certain way i move on.

Alioth has almost 260,000 territories. Divided by 20 territories, there would be 13,000 players on Alioth alone. This number corresponds to a normal to full server in other games, sometimes even overcrowded servers (depending on the game).

DualUniverse has no problem, even if each player has 100 tiles, there are still enough free planets and moons to occupy. Even if with 1,000,000 players there will be new solar systems....it's not a problem how many tiles a player has, but a problem that DualUniverse cannot handle so many players and so many constructs.

Currently, there are over 920,000 territories in the solar system. So enough for everyone, especially since most planets are not even 40% full. (Sanctuary with 37% is the maximum). 

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