michaelk

Unfortunately, I don't agree with this sentiment.
 
These emergent gameplay concepts don't happen spontaneously. No, these niches will not appear "naturally" simply because some players "don't want to do stuff". No, it isn't just "up to us" to create roles and build emergent gameplay concepts.
 
It isn't up to us to "mesh" with what NQ is creating, it's up to NQ to create something that works with these gameplay loops and has a structure that encourages specialization. Emergent gameplay doesn't just happen out of a void. That's not what "emergent gameplay" really means. 
 
It actually is up to NQ to cultivate these concepts.  
 
The idea that specialization will happen naturally isn't grounded in any evidence. The fact that the game as it exists now doesn't "mesh" with the NQ's vision is on them...players won't conform to this vision just because, it requires careful rules to create this virtual galaxy which NQ doesn't seem to understand...which is the OPs point. 

I get it, but my perspective is that this ship has sailed a long time ago. 
 
I think the "division" in the community exists because the vision for this game is so ambiguous and poorly articulated and the state of production is so rough.
 
If everyone was having such fun with the game as it exists today, it wouldn't feel like a division...but because the promise and potential of the game are so mismatched with its implementation today, there's a lot of angst and commentary about what needs to be "fixed" to make it complete. 
 
I guess my point is that NQ created this problem by launching such an incomplete project as a "beta" then pitching it as the end-all game for every space nerd's niche whims. 
 
I think a lot of people really, really want to believe in that promise and would rather blame each other than developer NQ...as soon as you recognize that NQ really doesn't have a plan, you're basically giving up that this game will become the promising civilization it was pitched as. 
 
There's still a lot of time for NQ to change directions -- until then, I agree that the player base needs to be patient with each other, but also understand that these discussions are inevitable...not because they are being pointlessly divisive, but because the incomplete and unknown state of the game's design invites speculation, discussion, and strong opinions...especially because many players feel so strongly about DU's potential and vision.  
 
The thing that would fix a lot of these issues is real leadership from the dev responsible for designing the game instead of big fat question marks whenever someone asks about how their game will work...I hope that players can be united enough to push NQ to do its job more professionally.  

It's obviously not ready - that's why it's in 'beta'.
 
Although given that you could claim that what we currently have isn't enough to be called a vertical slice...it's hard to argue that it's anything more than a proof of concept of some of the gameplay elements....

I sympathize -- and sometimes wonder why PvPers still have enough patience for this game. 
 
People have talked about NQ's mountain of technical debt before, but I wonder about this a lot.
 
Even if they wanted to work on PvP exclusively for the next year straight, I wonder if they'd be able to accomplish much. How many outstanding issues would they need to fix before they can make progress on PvP features...? 
 
Even with a year, they'd probably make some really bad choices because NQ doesn't really care about game design as a discipline -- they prefer the "use JC's intuition then fix it" model. This...isn't so great for game dev. 
 
If every player on this forum (which NQ doesn't read lol) banded together to push NQ to move PvP forward, I bet it'd just be business as usual for NQ...especially if they have so much tech debt that they can't make progress on any content in general which seems to be the case. And when they do finally drop a PvP feature...? It'd probably be a buggy, poorly balanced compromise that pleases no one. 
 
I wouldn't be that surprised if PvP remains "as-is" for a long, long while because of their ever-growing technical debt. When you have a bunch of tech debt, the last thing you want to do is start touching a feature that you have no confidence about -- and its really clear that NQ has no confidence in their understanding of PvP (or hell, player interaction in general).
 
Personally, I don't think PvP will ever really "work" in DU -- it just isn't remotely thought out, even today...I'd be really shocked if NQ manages to improvise their way into a well considered well balanced version of PvP. If they do pull that off, it'll take a long, long time and a lot of painful trial and error. 
 
TLDR: I don't believe NQ has the design or technical experience to create a good PvP experience...not without a ton of iterations they can't afford. 

I sympathize -- and sometimes wonder why PvPers still have enough patience for this game. 
 
People have talked about NQ's mountain of technical debt before, but I wonder about this a lot.
 
Even if they wanted to work on PvP exclusively for the next year straight, I wonder if they'd be able to accomplish much. How many outstanding issues would they need to fix before they can make progress on PvP features...? 
 
Even with a year, they'd probably make some really bad choices because NQ doesn't really care about game design as a discipline -- they prefer the "use JC's intuition then fix it" model. This...isn't so great for game dev. 
 
If every player on this forum (which NQ doesn't read lol) banded together to push NQ to move PvP forward, I bet it'd just be business as usual for NQ...especially if they have so much tech debt that they can't make progress on any content in general which seems to be the case. And when they do finally drop a PvP feature...? It'd probably be a buggy, poorly balanced compromise that pleases no one. 
 
I wouldn't be that surprised if PvP remains "as-is" for a long, long while because of their ever-growing technical debt. When you have a bunch of tech debt, the last thing you want to do is start touching a feature that you have no confidence about -- and its really clear that NQ has no confidence in their understanding of PvP (or hell, player interaction in general).
 
Personally, I don't think PvP will ever really "work" in DU -- it just isn't remotely thought out, even today...I'd be really shocked if NQ manages to improvise their way into a well considered well balanced version of PvP. If they do pull that off, it'll take a long, long time and a lot of painful trial and error. 
 
TLDR: I don't believe NQ has the design or technical experience to create a good PvP experience...not without a ton of iterations they can't afford. 

Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
 
It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
 
Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 

I sympathize -- and sometimes wonder why PvPers still have enough patience for this game. 
 
People have talked about NQ's mountain of technical debt before, but I wonder about this a lot.
 
Even if they wanted to work on PvP exclusively for the next year straight, I wonder if they'd be able to accomplish much. How many outstanding issues would they need to fix before they can make progress on PvP features...? 
 
Even with a year, they'd probably make some really bad choices because NQ doesn't really care about game design as a discipline -- they prefer the "use JC's intuition then fix it" model. This...isn't so great for game dev. 
 
If every player on this forum (which NQ doesn't read lol) banded together to push NQ to move PvP forward, I bet it'd just be business as usual for NQ...especially if they have so much tech debt that they can't make progress on any content in general which seems to be the case. And when they do finally drop a PvP feature...? It'd probably be a buggy, poorly balanced compromise that pleases no one. 
 
I wouldn't be that surprised if PvP remains "as-is" for a long, long while because of their ever-growing technical debt. When you have a bunch of tech debt, the last thing you want to do is start touching a feature that you have no confidence about -- and its really clear that NQ has no confidence in their understanding of PvP (or hell, player interaction in general).
 
Personally, I don't think PvP will ever really "work" in DU -- it just isn't remotely thought out, even today...I'd be really shocked if NQ manages to improvise their way into a well considered well balanced version of PvP. If they do pull that off, it'll take a long, long time and a lot of painful trial and error. 
 
TLDR: I don't believe NQ has the design or technical experience to create a good PvP experience...not without a ton of iterations they can't afford. 

Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
 
It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
 
Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 

Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
 
It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
 
Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 

Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
 
It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
 
Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 

Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
 
It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
 
Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 

I have no other recourse, and I will leave no stone unturned. The worst that can happen is silence.

Unfortunately, I don't agree with this sentiment.
 
These emergent gameplay concepts don't happen spontaneously. No, these niches will not appear "naturally" simply because some players "don't want to do stuff". No, it isn't just "up to us" to create roles and build emergent gameplay concepts.
 
It isn't up to us to "mesh" with what NQ is creating, it's up to NQ to create something that works with these gameplay loops and has a structure that encourages specialization. Emergent gameplay doesn't just happen out of a void. That's not what "emergent gameplay" really means. 
 
It actually is up to NQ to cultivate these concepts.  
 
The idea that specialization will happen naturally isn't grounded in any evidence. The fact that the game as it exists now doesn't "mesh" with the NQ's vision is on them...players won't conform to this vision just because, it requires careful rules to create this virtual galaxy which NQ doesn't seem to understand...which is the OPs point. 

Unfortunately, I don't agree with this sentiment.
 
These emergent gameplay concepts don't happen spontaneously. No, these niches will not appear "naturally" simply because some players "don't want to do stuff". No, it isn't just "up to us" to create roles and build emergent gameplay concepts.
 
It isn't up to us to "mesh" with what NQ is creating, it's up to NQ to create something that works with these gameplay loops and has a structure that encourages specialization. Emergent gameplay doesn't just happen out of a void. That's not what "emergent gameplay" really means. 
 
It actually is up to NQ to cultivate these concepts.  
 
The idea that specialization will happen naturally isn't grounded in any evidence. The fact that the game as it exists now doesn't "mesh" with the NQ's vision is on them...players won't conform to this vision just because, it requires careful rules to create this virtual galaxy which NQ doesn't seem to understand...which is the OPs point. 

Yet, big orgs (who indeed bounce back) not only meaningful entities in game. And not only voices against.
 
Actualy, its reasonable to say, "middle class" people (ironicly as in typical IRL problems) will suffer worst -- all active solo/small group players, both old and new, who tried to relativly keep up with big guys by hard work and preparing some reserves for future. They will be completly gutted, but they obviously have much less "staying power" and "raw muscle" then big orgs to go back in action and many will be feeling extreamly exausted and even cheated of their hard earned assets.
 
Per example, by local millions and kilotons of ore standards I relativly "poor" and usualy deeply frown upon hysterical "i will quit" things as argument... But to be super honest, if they wipe like before "release", deleting all ore I mined (and other work done), I will very seriously consider if I want to play DU again and re-invest all this time. Just no more stamina. On personal level.
 
NQ obviously made chain of insanly bad and unresponsable choices (with JC sometimes barely understanding how his game really played, living in world of fantasies in a way), that poisoned game and now we all paying price (generaly in both cases of non wipe scenario and wipe scenario). Its just difference between slow "necrosis" damage and shock bloody fountains damage.
 
I really don't know how they can repair it. All options are just tormenting lesser evil things (that a quite not lesser).
 
 

They'll likely launch in 2021 as their current "roadmap" indicates. It'll be a catastrophe, but they can't stay in pre-release bleeding subs forever. 
 
As I've said before, NQ's inexperience as a game designer is really, really obvious at this point. They don't know what demographic they want because they don't know what game they want to make...It's still just a bunch of vague ideas and rough dates with no actual plan.
 
NQ is developing the game like some stoner with a "great idea for an MMO, trust me" -- a lot of really basic typical first-time developer mistakes: over-ambition, thinking you can improvise design elements instead of having a plan, thinking a tech prototype will scale into a full game...
 
It wouldn't be so easy to "force" NQ to compromise their "vision" if they actually had a vision. 

They'll likely launch in 2021 as their current "roadmap" indicates. It'll be a catastrophe, but they can't stay in pre-release bleeding subs forever. 
 
As I've said before, NQ's inexperience as a game designer is really, really obvious at this point. They don't know what demographic they want because they don't know what game they want to make...It's still just a bunch of vague ideas and rough dates with no actual plan.
 
NQ is developing the game like some stoner with a "great idea for an MMO, trust me" -- a lot of really basic typical first-time developer mistakes: over-ambition, thinking you can improvise design elements instead of having a plan, thinking a tech prototype will scale into a full game...
 
It wouldn't be so easy to "force" NQ to compromise their "vision" if they actually had a vision. 

They'll likely launch in 2021 as their current "roadmap" indicates. It'll be a catastrophe, but they can't stay in pre-release bleeding subs forever. 
 
As I've said before, NQ's inexperience as a game designer is really, really obvious at this point. They don't know what demographic they want because they don't know what game they want to make...It's still just a bunch of vague ideas and rough dates with no actual plan.
 
NQ is developing the game like some stoner with a "great idea for an MMO, trust me" -- a lot of really basic typical first-time developer mistakes: over-ambition, thinking you can improvise design elements instead of having a plan, thinking a tech prototype will scale into a full game...
 
It wouldn't be so easy to "force" NQ to compromise their "vision" if they actually had a vision. 

Stop blaming other players for the fact that NQ hasn't designed their game yet.
 
It is up to NQ to make good decisions, and I'm sick of people just deflecting blame onto a group of players they have a personal issue with. 
 
If you want to blame someone for "ruining" the game, blame NQ for putting virtually no thought into the design details of this game. The balance between building and PvP obviously needed careful consideration. Don't blame "carebears" for their utter lack of foresight. It's funny how NQ listens to no one ever....but when they make decisions you don't like, it's somehow the carebears' fault? 
 
Stop it with all the deflection and bashing "nerdlings" -- it's completely childish and devoid of any shred of logic. How about you hold the party solely responsible for making decisions responsible for their own decisions like adults instead of throwing tantrums blaming other consumers that have paid their fair share to enjoy the game...? 

Girls, girls!
 
I simply won't accept harsh words in the orangery!  Now, back to the embroidery.

Stop blaming other players for the fact that NQ hasn't designed their game yet.
 
It is up to NQ to make good decisions, and I'm sick of people just deflecting blame onto a group of players they have a personal issue with. 
 
If you want to blame someone for "ruining" the game, blame NQ for putting virtually no thought into the design details of this game. The balance between building and PvP obviously needed careful consideration. Don't blame "carebears" for their utter lack of foresight. It's funny how NQ listens to no one ever....but when they make decisions you don't like, it's somehow the carebears' fault? 
 
Stop it with all the deflection and bashing "nerdlings" -- it's completely childish and devoid of any shred of logic. How about you hold the party solely responsible for making decisions responsible for their own decisions like adults instead of throwing tantrums blaming other consumers that have paid their fair share to enjoy the game...? 

Sorry, didn’t read past this point since I just want to address this. 
 
If you’re getting a headache from the blurred graphics, the issue is likely physiological.
 
there must be a reason why thousands and thousands of people can play this game without issue but you can’t. 

As an aside, my wife found herself getting a headache while using her computer recently and complained. She went to the doctors and it subsequently turned out to be a brain tumor. She is currently recovering from the 7 hour operation. 
 
jus’ sayin’... if it’s really as bad as you’re saying, the problem is likely you rather than the game... hence the ineligibility for a refund. 

Those interviews are happening on YouTube and Twitch so that they are not easily accessible.   Having easily accessible plans would make it pretty obvious how quickly the devs are changing their minds.
 
industry Lua:  no -> this is a design/balance problem not technical.
 
Safe areas: just Sanctuary -> having half of Alioth be safe would make for interesting interactions -> we’re keeping the blue triangle
 
auto turrets:  extreme no -> no -> they’ll be weak
 
auto mining:  no because it would hurt newbies -> it’s on the list -> oh yeah it’s going to use a new land rating to make some areas more desirable for Territory Control.
 
—————
 
The interviews being hard to access, and being extraordinarily hard to search is an intended feature.   Probably the best way to make them go away is to make the stashed org summaries publicly accessible.  The devs are down to Streamers that can only pull in 200 viewers anyways.

Yeah...  They just destroyed the entire District market dynamic in the typical NQ "fix the symptoms, not the cause" way of doing things.
The number one selling point for this game was building large community settlements, space stations etc. So it is a bit ironic that the biggest problem with this game is that it can't handle more than a handful of players/constructs gathering before it breaks down..
 
I am pretty much at the point where I need to take a break from this game.

99% of games have info on forums. It's just off putting for new players to have to do something particular.   Every hurdle prevents engagement.