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What are skills? and how do they work?

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In a car driving game, just let the players drive cars instead of emulating car driving through skill trees. In a space game, just let the players fly space ships instead of emulating space flight through skill trees.

You missed the point of specialisations in an MMORPG. You can't be a rogue/mage/priest on your own.

 

And yes, I was a cheap one in WoW arenas, let it go.

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It has been said a thousand times that you don't need skill trees to specialize. Just put interesting, demanding game mechanics in place for the different activities in the game and people will specialize by practising the things they like most instead of emulating practice through a skill tree.

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It has been said a thousand times that you don't need skill trees to specialize. Just put interesting, demanding game mechanics in place for the different activities in the game and people will specialize by practising the things they like most instead of emulating practice through a skill tree.

 

you should take a look at the FAQ, there will be skills in this game. none of us really can know what that skill system will be like, but the FAQ makes it very obvious that there will be a skill system.

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The way I expect it given the devblogs, your skills determine how fast you can lock on, or how far you can lock, making you a different asset on a ship's crew depending on the ship's role. And I strongly advocate and believe , the devs will implement a death penalty that will make you lose skillpoints, so to make skills not so easily maxed.

 

It seems you are worried about min/maxing skills, as am I. So let me suggest the following as a more natural form of skill limitation.

 

Suppose that for all skills, the following mechanic works more or less the same way:

Every time an action is taken, its appropriate skill gains some amount of XP. In the lore there is some kind of implant which "teaches" you over time, so every time it ticks you would also get XP in that skill. Once over a certain threshold, the XP will decrease over time, proportional to the amount of XP that is over the threshold.

 

The constant should be very low, causing very low skill loss even at higher XP. The decrease could stop for a short period, every time an action gives XP to that skill. Thus someone who uses a certain skill's actions tends to have a high skill amount.

 

Those who don't train their skills periodically will find that their skills will slip back down to "mediocrity." Also, you could choose to set your implant on a certain skill and it would maintain that skill at a higher amount than the normal threshold.

 

This would allow for a "jack of all trades vs a master of one" type mechanic. I would be able to use everything, but not as well as someone else (the master) could. Perhaps I could be great at 3 or 4 skills and be very close to the master of one, but not quite.

 

Optionally, a death death mechanic could be implemented to remove a certain number of XP from that skill. Notice that I have refrained from using the word "level" as much as possible. I'm also thinking that skills should be represented by a much more "tightly packed" number than 1,2,3. Think more like 10,000 to 1,000,000 as the operating standard. Whatever actions benefit from a higher "level" can do so from XP instead which is much less jagged than traditional "skill levels."

 

As far as what form these skills will take, well it seems everyone has an opinion. Lock-on times was mentioned by CptT. Perhaps faster mining, building, deconstructing. Perhaps faster FTL, faster guns, efficient reactors, somehow.

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@Velenka


The devs said that they go for a "download and upgrade" skill system, like EVE's. There's no reason to ponder over how XP will be gaine,d only if the skills can be maxed to a cap. Many here have advocated on multibranching trees, so to create variety within an archetype of playstyle.


Ground for example could have ...  I don't know , a lot of branches, one of them being "Field Commander" which gives your troops greater engagement ranges, while another is "Warlord" which makes your tropps able to move faster on the field. Another oculd be "Sniper", obvious to what it does, while an other would be "Demolition" that gives you access to craft and use high-yield explosives to blast through doors and so on. Te skill points should be capped to not allow a "Field Commander" to be a "Sniper" as well as of specialisation, nor allow a starship sailor to be able to spec both in weapon systems and handling a minigun AND have powered armor training.


Hope I was comprehensive enough. The point is not "how to get to the top" but not to "get to many tops".

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You made sense, but I don't see where that precludes my idea from being implemented. Admittedly Nyzaltar said that they intend to have basic skill from which to branch, so maybe those should work differently to what I suggested. But everything above those skills could be made to use the system I described.

Also, in my system, to get to the "top" you are limited by how quickly you can replenish the draining XP. So yes it would matter how you got XP since that would be how the maximum is established.

Example:

If I'm a master miner, with a super fast mining time, then my mining skill would be decreasing rather quickly if I'm not doing anything. If I'm in the middle of mining, then the decrease would halt, and reverse and I would begin to regain XP. The maximum would be determined by where rate of loss=rate of gain of XP.

As for your example, I agree that you can't have a jack of all trades. I specifically mentioned that when describing how my XP system would work and that it would prevent that by forcing you to divide your time between multiple actions/ implant trainings.

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You made sense, but I don't see where that precludes my idea from being implemented. Admittedly Nyzaltar said that they intend to have basic skill from which to branch, so maybe those should work differently to what I suggested. But everything above those skills could be made to use the system I described.

 

Also, in my system, to get to the "top" you are limited by how quickly you can replenish the draining XP. So yes it would matter how you got XP since that would be how the maximum is established.

 

Example:

 

If I'm a master miner, with a super fast mining time, then my mining skill would be decreasing rather quickly if I'm not doing anything. If I'm in the middle of mining, then the decrease would halt, and reverse and I would begin to regain XP. The maximum would be determined by where rate of loss=rate of gain of XP.

 

As for your example, I agree that you can't have a jack of all trades. I specifically mentioned that when describing how my XP system would work and that it would prevent that by forcing you to divide your time between multiple actions/ implant trainings.

I know what you are going for, the sad truth is the devs don't want any XP/Skillpoints loss for the game. I advocated for this, but it seems the devs or the playerbase is not fond of such things like "darks soul"-ing a game. Although, a "Shell-shock" debuff should be added in the game for players who died, hindering the rate they increase their skills and at max rank, temporarily de-levelling them.

 

 

For example.

 

 

Tier 5 player loses a battle. He revives in a med-bay or w/e. He has been Shellshocked. He is mentally traumatised and he can't focus on his skills upgrade for half an hour.

 

Tier 10 player dies. He revies. He's Shellshocked. He is for half an hour, a Tier 9 skills player, with the Tier 10 being "greyed-out" for the duration, once it's over, he's tier 10 again. He dies in the duration of shell-shock? Tier 8. Again? Tier 7. That gives a "lives" system for PVP. A player can die X many times before he is rendered useless for the fight, if you want to go the RP way, "he has seen too much".

 

 

This, in conjuction with an "Assassination" job, could EXTEND the Shell-shock debuf, thus hindering a player's efectiveness for 2 hours man, giving meaning to bounty hunters as "griefers for hire".

 

 

And we shouldn't think of mining as a "time to mine" thing. I expect that the mining tree will give you the ability to build sensors to detet minerals so you can be more effective with your time spent mining, compared to Jimmy Malarchy, who's going around smelling the grass to tell where plutonium is at :P Perhaps, the mining tree gives you access to craft a jackhammer which makes you bypass all the dirt and rocks you don't need, as you make your way to iron or w/e you go for. And if you get killed, for half an hour, you can't use tha jackhammer, in my idea at least.

 

 

To be completelly honest, if the devs make a stable online server build, any system would suffice if we can have 1000 players duking it out on one place :P .

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Nobody ever player Entropia Universe? 

They have real cash economy (they were way before even EVE was born) They have massive non-linear skill system for pretty much every activity in game that whatever you do you getting better at. Simple as that. I never saw any better or superior system to that. And game kept going from over a decade or almost 2. I wish this particular title would be taken into account when comes to skills. Tech trees and simple Grind is the thing of the past. And... is not far from what CaptainTwerkmotor keeps on saying here. It makes perfect sense.

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the FAQ makes it very obvious that there will be a skill system.

As helpful as you are, I am sure you wrote them a note as well, pointing to this thread, saying something along the lines of: "Some potential customers there make it very obvious that a skill system only deters from interesting and demanding gameplay, which serves the same pupose as a skill system, but is way more fun than a skil system, so you should change your mind, for which it is fortunately not yet too late in pre alpha."

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I sincerely hope that the devs do not go for a EVE style time based skill system.  I think a skill system of some sort might be a good thing but if you truly want a sandbox construction game to shine you can't have the finer points of construction be blocked for newer players by the fact that they have not spent enough time waiting for a bar to fill or repeating some menial task for the sole purpose of unlocking that smoothing tool or being able to pick up a sniper rifle.  Instead let the skills have more to do with time or efficiency at upgrading weapons/modules or refining and crafting components for construction.  For things like weapons specialization there is always a learning curve to simply knowing how to do the action, be it the intricacies of long range marksmanship or knowing how much to lead a moving target in a space battle.  I think the greater limitation should be economic progression and skill based on actually doing a thing rather than having the required XP.  How likely are you to buy an expensive ship for an extended conflict when you know you can't afford to replace it and you have never been in a big battle before?  The players who spend time making ship designs will get better at it naturally, and the same goes for the players who have big battles and know the capabilities of their equipment.  EVE is often mentioned for it's virtues and its drawbacks.  The complexities of EVE pvp are a wonderful thing, with all the many kinds of ships and the innumerable ways to make an effective combat setup , however the tedious waiting for skills to finish training so I can use that mining tool, even though I can afford it and know where to use it is ridiculous and is a defining factor in why EVE is not new player friendly.  Effectiveness of a particular tool or weapon should be based on it's level of design and complexity and be inversely proportional to the scarcity of its constituent materials.  It should not be based on an arbitrary number determined by how many times I've punched a rock or by how long ago I told the game to "train that".

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I sincerely hope that the devs do not go for a EVE style time based skill system.  I think a skill system of some sort might be a good thing but if you truly want a sandbox construction game to shine you can't have the finer points of construction be blocked for newer players by the fact that they have not spent enough time waiting for a bar to fill or repeating some menial task for the sole purpose of unlocking that smoothing tool or being able to pick up a sniper rifle.  Instead let the skills have more to do with time or efficiency at upgrading weapons/modules or refining and crafting components for construction.  For things like weapons specialization there is always a learning curve to simply knowing how to do the action, be it the intricacies of long range marksmanship or knowing how much to lead a moving target in a space battle.  I think the greater limitation should be economic progression and skill based on actually doing a thing rather than having the required XP.  How likely are you to buy an expensive ship for an extended conflict when you know you can't afford to replace it and you have never been in a big battle before?  The players who spend time making ship designs will get better at it naturally, and the same goes for the players who have big battles and know the capabilities of their equipment.  EVE is often mentioned for it's virtues and its drawbacks.  The complexities of EVE pvp are a wonderful thing, with all the many kinds of ships and the innumerable ways to make an effective combat setup , however the tedious waiting for skills to finish training so I can use that mining tool, even though I can afford it and know where to use it is ridiculous and is a defining factor in why EVE is not new player friendly.  Effectiveness of a particular tool or weapon should be based on it's level of design and complexity and be inversely proportional to the scarcity of its constituent materials.  It should not be based on an arbitrary number determined by how many times I've punched a rock or by how long ago I told the game to "train that".

You can't have an MMO without specialisations or roles good sir, and DUAL is an MMORPG.

 

 

In my opinion, a linear system of progression solves many problems, one of them being "end game" skills.

 

If everyone can be a doctor/engineer/builder/pilot/gunner/sniper/technician/hacker, that's not an MMO sandbox, that's Skyrim in space.

 

You have to view this as an MMO. 

 

Chances are, given the LUA scripts, ships will be provided FOR YOU by big factions, with a "title" recognition for your assigned post in a bridge or an overall commander's position. You will be a fleet officer, not a privateer being called to battle. And last I've checked, people assigned BIG ships in the Navy, are the ones with either the ones greasing the right gears, or the ones with the longest experience and proven skill.

 

Also, it's better for a player to earn their battleship command position, through ACTUAL battle-hardened experience, than just because an XP filled up by killing a billion space sheeps, and yes, I meant SHEEPS, not Ships. Afterwards, it's your skill as a leader which earns you reputation for coordinating the people in your bridge. Remember, this is not EVE's 1-pilot-ship model. The Devs go for actually internally functioning ships. Yur "party" will be your bridge's crew.

 

 

Economic progression is there already, and on top of that, a logistical one. You can't expect to build a metric kiloton ship on your own. Game has physics, it's not "add X amount of blocks" to make a ship. And chances are, you'll be enrolling in an Empire or Faction to earn money for jobs they issue.

 

 

As for specialisations in weaponry, that should be a pre-planned commitment during the Alpha and Beta phases, as the system is fleshed out. If you are a boots on the ground type of player, you should specialise for that, maybe drop points into powered armor training to be the meanest of the meanest on the ground, or, specialise in a jet-pack and be a flanking devil. Choice is yours. But don't expect to be a pilot, wearinga powerered armor, having mastery of lock-on precision with your jet and being a pro at handling an LMG. That's game breaking. BUT, you could split the points on the pilot and the soldier tree, to perhaps become a paratrooper, or, as we are in space, an ODST, with knowledge of how to control your drop-pod and the ability to handle Assault Rifles or Carbines.

 

 

But this is my opinion. And I want variety of specialisations in the game, for a variety of playstyles, which can create an interactive internal market, than a one-man monopoly.

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You can't have an MMO without specialisations or roles good sir, and DUAL is an MMORPG.

 

 

In my opinion, a linear system of progression solves many problems, one of them being "end game" skills.

 

If everyone can be a doctor/engineer/builder/pilot/gunner/sniper/technician/hacker, that's not an MMO sandbox, that's Skyrim in space.

 

You have to view this as an MMO. 

 

Chances are, given the LUA scripts, ships will be provided FOR YOU by big factions, with a "title" recognition for your assigned post in a bridge or an overall commander's position. You will be a fleet officer, not a privateer being called to battle. And last I've checked, people assigned BIG ships in the Navy, are the ones with either the ones greasing the right gears, or the ones with the longest experience and proven skill.

 

Also, it's better for a player to earn their battleship command position, through ACTUAL battle-hardened experience, than just because an XP filled up by killing a billion space sheeps, and yes, I meant SHEEPS, not Ships. Afterwards, it's your skill as a leader which earns you reputation for coordinating the people in your bridge. Remember, this is not EVE's 1-pilot-ship model. The Devs go for actually internally functioning ships. Yur "party" will be your bridge's crew.

 

 

Economic progression is there already, and on top of that, a logistical one. You can't expect to build a metric kiloton ship on your own. Game has physics, it's not "add X amount of blocks" to make a ship. And chances are, you'll be enrolling in an Empire or Faction to earn money for jobs they issue.

 

 

As for specialisations in weaponry, that should be a pre-planned commitment during the Alpha and Beta phases, as the system is fleshed out. If you are a boots on the ground type of player, you should specialise for that, maybe drop points into powered armor training to be the meanest of the meanest on the ground, or, specialise in a jet-pack and be a flanking devil. Choice is yours. But don't expect to be a pilot, wearinga powerered armor, having mastery of lock-on precision with your jet and being a pro at handling an LMG. That's game breaking. BUT, you could split the points on the pilot and the soldier tree, to perhaps become a paratrooper, or, as we are in space, an ODST, with knowledge of how to control your drop-pod and the ability to handle Assault Rifles or Carbines.

 

 

But this is my opinion. And I want variety of specialisations in the game, for a variety of playstyles, which can create an interactive internal market, than a one-man monopoly.

It seems we agree on a good few things.  I think that specialization is a necessity in a game of this magnitude, unless you want to do many things poorly.  What I am against however, is the kind of specialization that requires mindless repetitive actions or an arbitrary timer.  Skill should be determined by one's peers and the market, rather than by a game statistic.  In other words, The ability to build a sexy looking and fully functional ship should not require me to build ugly, crappy ships, nor should it require me to train a selection of time based "skills" that give me percentage bonuses and unlock voxel editing tools that others can't access.  Specialization should be a result of a discovery of a person's actual skills as they relate to the game, rather than a dedication to a particular "skill tree" that excludes other aspects of the game by nature of the skill system.

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It seems we agree on a good few things.  I think that specialization is a necessity in a game of this magnitude, unless you want to do many things poorly.  What I am against however, is the kind of specialization that requires mindless repetitive actions or an arbitrary timer.  Skill should be determined by one's peers and the market, rather than by a game statistic.  In other words, The ability to build a sexy looking and fully functional ship should not require me to build ugly, crappy ships, nor should it require me to train a selection of time based "skills" that give me percentage bonuses and unlock voxel editing tools that others can't access.  Specialization should be a result of a discovery of a person's actual skills as they relate to the game, rather than a dedication to a particular "skill tree" that excludes other aspects of the game by nature of the skill system.

No no no, the voxel building aspect is the same to everyone. The Elements you craft change, an Element being any 3D mesh item you can craft. Those are linked to specialisations, not the voxel building part good sir. The voxel building is up to your imagination and creativity to master.

 

 

As for the timers, yes, sadly, it's a psychological thing. People want to feel their progress in "numbers". You got to remember, the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. While me and you may agree on the whole "countdown to upgrade" many many people do like that kind of thing ,as it quantifies their progress.

 

 

And yes, if you were to start on your own, you would be able to build a ship at first thorugh basic tech being granted to you at the start, build a small jet and then probably find a player market you can look up for materials they need, then you go out and mine as you progress economically.

 

 

And you got to remember, the combat as all things seem to indicate, is heading for an active lock-on system, which is essentially Tab-Targeting mechanics, emulating shooter combat. You have to have percentage bonuses that seperate you as a specialised pilot from, let's say, a specialised sniper. How those percentages may work, I can't say, I'm not a psychic, but let's say they are "enhancing" things of the ship you pilot. An untrained pilot  would take turns much more sharply, while a specialised one will be more smooth on the turns, more precise on cruise, as we got to remember, the game is  6 Degrees of Freedom. You yawl, roll, submerge or ascend in space. These kind of skills should be enhanced via passive skills, while active skills will make you able to deliver damage in a more consistent pattern, or make your lock-ons lock faster.

 

 

This is why I believe a linear skill system should exist. Both to make the game compelling and gradually giving a player the chance to go for their own unique playstyle and rewarding them for their choice. I mean, you need players to have incentive into specialising to be medics, or doctors. They should be unique as much as any oter guy in a small group. If you can simply craft the medical items on your own, that would make the medics useless. Same medic would eventually, specialise into engineering, spliting half his points there and be able to build Resurrection Nodes for other players. That would make him some money, given that not everyone is gonna be going for that kind of items in an organisation ,let alone specialised in such things.

 

 

In fact, this is how I suggest the system being on Elements crafting. Half points in engineering, half in another field, to give you access to build certain stuff for that field, while the engineer, if people choose to specialise fully in it, get to build superior engines and thrusters.

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My main draw to this game is the possibility of crafting my own unique designs and seeing them (hopefully) become popular and ubiquitous.  I am also compelled by the sheer potential this game has to be something so much more than so many games that are out there right now, including EVE.  I think the one skill training at a time thing is a mistake because it limits character growth and forces newer players to compromise between surviving in the game and training the necessary skills they need for what they want to do, which may or may not be obvious when they start.  Skill progression is a logical thing and I understand why the devs want to have it but it could be so much more organic.  I don't want to see this game become like EVE where you have to play for 3 months to learn what you have to train to be an effective player, then go create a new character and do it right.

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My main draw to this game is the possibility of crafting my own unique designs and seeing them (hopefully) become popular and ubiquitous.  I am also compelled by the sheer potential this game has to be something so much more than so many games that are out there right now, including EVE.  I think the one skill training at a time thing is a mistake because it limits character growth and forces newer players to compromise between surviving in the game and training the necessary skills they need for what they want to do, which may or may not be obvious when they start.  Skill progression is a logical thing and I understand why the devs want to have it but it could be so much more organic.  I don't want to see this game become like EVE where you have to play for 3 months to learn what you have to train to be an effective player, then go create a new character and do it right.

Hopefully, they'll have a retrain system in-game. The way the lore explains the skil ltraining is via a cybernetic implant in the brain. Perhaps there's an in-game way for you to "erase" that memory and reallocate skill points up to the tier you were, bt it also, should be something costly, so to deter people from flipping between ninja and rocket scientist easily.

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"Training multiple skills would save a lot of time and frustration. Perhaps, there's a Skill level to increase the number of skills you can train at once?"

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Another option would be to have various actions provide points to the relevant skills, as well as having the training system.  For instance I might focus my training cue on manufacturing systems or whatever, but every time I get in my little fighter ship and shoot something I get a bit of skill at it, not much, maybe not even enough to get very far with it, but a little bit.

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Another option would be to have various actions provide points to the relevant skills, as well as having the training system.  For instance I might focus my training cue on manufacturing systems or whatever, but every time I get in my little fighter ship and shoot something I get a bit of skill at it, not much, maybe not even enough to get very far with it, but a little bit.

"Someone already suggested this. The problem is what happens with the valuable time you spend offline? Multiple skill training allows you to log off for however long you like and the skills will be trained in your absentia. Skill per action is more beneficial when it comes to offline games."

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I'm proposing a mixture of both, you still have a skill tree that you train in a linear fashion regardless of weather you're logged on or not, but you also have the XP gain from doing things.  If you're just sitting there setting up your organization system or designing a construct you don't gain anything except what's in your training cue, but if you are gathering resources or building a construct or even shooting some marauding nutjob you gain XP in the related fields as well as what you have in your training cue.

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I'm proposing a mixture of both, you still have a skill tree that you train in a linear fashion regardless of weather you're logged on or not, but you also have the XP gain from doing things.  If you're just sitting there setting up your organization system or designing a construct you don't gain anything except what's in your training cue, but if you are gathering resources or building a construct or even shooting some marauding nutjob you gain XP in the related fields as well as what you have in your training cue.

"Hear, hear! I support this."

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I'm proposing a mixture of both, you still have a skill tree that you train in a linear fashion regardless of weather you're logged on or not, but you also have the XP gain from doing things.  If you're just sitting there setting up your organization system or designing a construct you don't gain anything except what's in your training cue, but if you are gathering resources or building a construct or even shooting some marauding nutjob you gain XP in the related fields as well as what you have in your training cue.

 

Yeah, it would be great. I don't need to be good at everything but I really wish to feel that doing something makes me better at it. It might be a bit wierd but I really like mining and solitutde it offers but I would love to see all those hundreds and thousands of tons of ore made my character better at mining not just me as a player. And what would I load into my brain whilst being offline? Probably some way to get a little better at trading or building which are skills that are important even for focused solitary character but I really don't wish to spend as much time with them.

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Basically the crux of my problem with having a more traditional skill path in a game like this is that its a relic of older games that don't simulate things to the degree that Dual Universe will.

 

It seems like they want to lock technologies behind the skill trees so that everyone can't do everything at once. But I think the nature of the infrastructure needed for advanced technology and space flight will be enough of a barrier in of itself.

 

In Space Engineers for example you technically have the ability to build a jump capable spaceship as soon as you spawn. Except that you're on a planet, with very little refined minerals to hand. And you need a significant mining operation. And a lot of rare elements that take ages to refine. And the rarest elements for the best engines can only be found in space. So you have a long path ahead of you before you can even dream or making that first jump.

 

And that's without contending with potentially thousands of other players and their organisations.

 

As for skill specialisations. I don't think that handing out skill based stat bonuses is the way to go. You don't become the best fleet admiral in the verse because you have a leadership bonus +5. You get there through experience leading fleets of other players into battle. You don't need an arbitrary number to tell you because you are doing it yourself.

 

Likewise tech specialists, artists, and engineers will arise naturally if the crafting system is deep enough to allow for it.

 

For combat specialisation I think in a sci fi game your special abilities are better defined by your equipment. How well you fight (and the gods of ping) will be the real measure of how good you are in a fight.

 

Honestly this is what I think you need on your character sheet for a game like this:

 

Page 1

Bio (name, appearance, backstory etc

 

Page 2

Assets (money, controlled organisation ships/stations etc)

 

Page 3

Status (organisations, granted tiles etc)

 

Page 4

Contracts (buy/sell orders, jobs, alliances etc)

 

When we hand build everything, negotiate with other real people, and fight with our own reflexes, that's all we need.

 

I'm interested to see what the devs say on the matter when they blog about progression in more depth.

 

Really torn on this TBH. This might be more along the lines of "abilities" rather than specifically skills like you would have on a hotbar, but I feel like having a "the more you do something, the better you get at it" would be good to help differentiate between "classes". I do feel a bit swayed after reading your post, but I think it might only be applicable in certain areas of the game. Though, I guess going the route I mentioned above might be more like an artificial stat buff (no different then a buff potion or something). So from that perspective, I completely understand what you are saying. However, I feel that there should be something to differentiate individual characters and "classes" from each other.

 

For instance, clothing and such will be modeled by the dev team and our own personal skills and abilities won't be as applicable as say, designing a ship hull using voxels. Since we cannot attach our own personal design skills to something like this, what would make our product desirable? What is to keep a new player who is gifted the blueprint from flooding the market with the exact same product? If there is no acquired character skills, what will differentiate those goods, from a player who has been crafting that type of product since the game's release date? I toyed with the idea of overall quality for resources and end products in another thread and if we apply that here, the only differentiating factor between those two products would be the quality, which would have to be solely based on the material, blueprint, and assembler quality. Perhaps clothing isn't the best example, but it helps to illustrate something that will be in the game that we as players have (at this time) no ability to design within the game, making no levelable or acquired skills/abilities/proficiencies a difficult pill for me to swallow.

 

People naturally get better at something by doing it, so where appropriately applicable, that should apply to our characters as well. But ya, no +5% dmg squad buffs because I hit the  *battle cry* skill button, that just seems silly to me.

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