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What are skills? and how do they work?

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I'm curious as to the role of skills in this game.

 

1)How do you get them?

 

2)What do they do?

 

3)Is game play locked behind certain skills?

 

 

All I know is the references to training one skill at a time, and unlocking technology somehow.

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I'm curious as to the role of skills in this game.

 

1)How do you get them?

 

2)What do they do?

 

3)Is game play locked behind certain skills?

 

 

All I know is the references to training one skill at a time, and unlocking technology somehow.

I am also very curious about this.... I hope there is alot of skills so you can specialize :D

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I know its semi discussed in one of the devblogs, but for the life of me I cant remember which one <_<

 

anyways, from what I remember is you have to access a terminal to train in a skill. while im assuming one could research all skills that would take an excessively long time and not be efficient. I envision a kind of mix of research that is generally done in the sid meier games like civ and such and something that has been done in other rpg games(thinking final fantasy x and xii and skyrim). where you have a layout of skills and skill paths and you pick one to follow or multiple ones to follow. While I assume there isn't any real "classes" in this game there is probably umbrella skill classes that are more for building gathering or fighting.

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I just hope that those skills are not going to be limited by time, like EVE Online is, the game would feel "limited" to me in a certain way. I don't want to be forced to choose a path and stick with it, while switching would be so much punishing. Depending on my mood of the day, i could build, farm, fight, trade, explore or swim, it's just not fun to be forced to fight every day, or mine every day because all your skills are on a specific tree. That's even one of the main reason people don't like starting a new account in EVE Online. Skills make the game extremely slow, grindy, and limited to new players. 

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This makes me think of a semi-related thing... will it be necessary to have multiple characters to have a diverse skill set? Like A character only has a set number of skill points and as such can not learn to be both a miner and a fighter? And that forces the player to have more than one character to fill all the roles they need such that one character to mine and gather materials , one to refine materials from the miner, and one to turn the refined materials into a construct, then one to learn the API programming so that the construct does what its supposed to? That's 4 characters already just to make a ship that is functional? 

Will a single account be allowed to have more than one character? And how many characters per account?

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i highly doubt NQ will limit us by having a fixed skill point limit. more than likely each research will take time and maybe the more you have the more time it takes or more physical research being done to get a new skill or whatever.

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Personally I'm against having a skill tree at all. I think it gets in the way of emergent game play. I'll talk more in depth about it when I get back from work.

 

The OP was mostly to see if there was any more info out there about character progression.

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Personally I'm against having a skill tree at all. I think it gets in the way of emergent game play. I'll talk more in depth about it when I get back from work.

 

The OP was mostly to see if there was any more info out there about character progression.

im hoping the address it more in a dev blog as we get closer to the alpha

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Basically the crux of my problem with having a more traditional skill path in a game like this is that its a relic of older games that don't simulate things to the degree that Dual Universe will.

 

It seems like they want to lock technologies behind the skill trees so that everyone can't do everything at once. But I think the nature of the infrastructure needed for advanced technology and space flight will be enough of a barrier in of itself.

 

In Space Engineers for example you technically have the ability to build a jump capable spaceship as soon as you spawn. Except that you're on a planet, with very little refined minerals to hand. And you need a significant mining operation. And a lot of rare elements that take ages to refine. And the rarest elements for the best engines can only be found in space. So you have a long path ahead of you before you can even dream or making that first jump.

 

And that's without contending with potentially thousands of other players and their organisations.

 

As for skill specialisations. I don't think that handing out skill based stat bonuses is the way to go. You don't become the best fleet admiral in the verse because you have a leadership bonus +5. You get there through experience leading fleets of other players into battle. You don't need an arbitrary number to tell you because you are doing it yourself.

 

Likewise tech specialists, artists, and engineers will arise naturally if the crafting system is deep enough to allow for it.

 

For combat specialisation I think in a sci fi game your special abilities are better defined by your equipment. How well you fight (and the gods of ping) will be the real measure of how good you are in a fight.

 

Honestly this is what I think you need on your character sheet for a game like this:

 

Page 1

Bio (name, appearance, backstory etc

 

Page 2

Assets (money, controlled organisation ships/stations etc)

 

Page 3

Status (organisations, granted tiles etc)

 

Page 4

Contracts (buy/sell orders, jobs, alliances etc)

When we hand build everything, negotiate with other real people, and fight with our own reflexes, that's all we need.

I'm interested to see what the devs say on the matter when they blog about progression in more depth.

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Since DU is more about crafting, construction and trading instead of an action game about war and fighting, I assume it's safe to say that the skills will be about how you intend to earn credits.

 

Lets say you're more of a gathering material type of person, then ofc you would go with mining, foraging, farming etc. that can give %speed on harvesting or something like a bonus chance for rare materials.

If you like calculating alot more then trader it is for you, giving a %discount or rise in prices or other bonuses.

 

But if its about combat then i'd say it will be all about the equipment, tho there are still possibilities for combat skills but i dont see it in an fps style.

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The way I see it.


You get a sniper rifle.

You use the sniper rifle.

You get better at shooting shit from a distance.

You keep shooting things from a distance and getting better.

Congrats, you mastered the art of murder from 5 kilometers away.




Now, let's start with assault rifles.

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Well since it said you can only work on one skill at a time, it is probably going to go about as a selected skill, that you are "training" subconsciously through an implant connecting you to the ark ship skill database. Having to select them in a skill tree progression.

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As for skill specialisations. I don't think that handing out skill based stat bonuses is the way to go. You don't become the best fleet admiral in the verse because you have a leadership bonus +5. You get there through experience leading fleets of other players into battle. You don't need an arbitrary number to tell you because you are doing it yourself.

 

Likewise tech specialists, artists, and engineers will arise naturally if the crafting system is deep enough to allow for it.

 

For combat specialisation I think in a sci fi game your special abilities are better defined by your equipment. How well you fight (and the gods of ping) will be the real measure of how good you are in a fight.

 

It would be nice to have an emergent skill system like this, but since the devs have explicitly mentioned a skill system, this may not happen. If they could find a way to make a natural based skill system, that would be great. Like you say we will have to wait and see.

 

The devs have also stated that combat will be lock-on based, so thankfully it won't depend very much on connection or computer hardware.

 

Since DU is more about crafting, construction and trading instead of an action game about war and fighting, I assume it's safe to say that the skills will be about how you intend to earn credits.

 

Lets say you're more of a gathering material type of person, then ofc you would go with mining, foraging, farming etc. that can give %speed on harvesting or something like a bonus chance for rare materials.

If you like calculating alot more then trader it is for you, giving a %discount or rise in prices or other bonuses.

 

I think the % speed advantage would be a good idea for "skills" which don't correlate very well to player actions which require real skill. Some examples: speed for mining, efficiency in processing of ore, percentage hits in combat. So too, could you use advanced technology to achieve a similar effect if one could not invest in the particular skill.

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It seems I always find out about new games too late, to the effect that I must read in the forums "The devs already said [worst possible solution]." Here: Worst possible boredom with tab targeting, worst possible boredom with timer-bar "skill" (applying a perverted twist to the word) and tech trees.

 

Or we consider this is early pre-alpha and they might change their mind for better solutions if their potential customers come up with it in the forums.

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This is why I'm posting about it now.  Throw your ideas out while they're still at an early stage. Maybe they'll change direction if you make your points well.

I was thoughful as you are sir, but the thing is the way the envision it makes sense, both lore-wise and as a gameplay function. The higher you get to a tree, the more invested you are to following said path.

 

 

Let's say I wanna play as a ground trooper.

 

(The following skill names are on the top of my head, they are meant as an example).

I have to invest in Steady Aim. Then some in Combat Awareness. Then Battle Endurance. That allows me to upgrade some skills to unlock a certain branch of the skill tree I pursue.

 

Steady Aim leads to Sharpshooting.

Combat Awareness becomes SitRep or Intelligence Gathering.

Battle Endurance becomes Spartan Training.

 

Each upgrade thereafter takes more time and I can't upgrade any other skill in the meantime. Which means that time I invest in upgrading one skill, makes me more willing to follow the tree to the final traits.

 

Which leads to unlocking some sort of amazing skills like Vanguard or something.

 

But a guy who goes for building, is a better builder than me, the same I'm suited better for combat.

 

Sure, I can make a house, but the builder has access to more refined tools, like Sharpen/Smoothen tools. My constructs will look blocky, his/her buildings will look like works of art. 

 

 

Same applies for pilots and any other skill tree they implement (fingers crossed for a Hacking skill tree ^_^ )

 

 

It's a really clanky and silly mechanic in a point and click adventure like EVE, but for a game like Dual it's a really fun idea. Let's you specialise into things that not many would involve themselves into. 

 

 

For a slight comparison to WoW in the old days before dual-specialisation, a healing class could go out in the world and fight, but against a PvP specced player, he wouldn't do much. Same idea applies for my example. 

 

Hope I didn't confuse you much :P

 

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I get what you mean. The problem I have is that a system like you describe actually involves walling off content in order to create a false sense of specialisation.

If the gun controls are being made smoother for one player, then they are being made artificially clunkier for everyone else. Why should one player designated as a 'builder' have access to the full range of tools just because they set 'building' to train to max for the first few hours of the game?

 

To my mind that is unintuitive. And it obfuscates the fact that true player skill isn't based on numbers on a character sheet. The best builders in Space Engineers and Minecraft use the same blocks as everyone else. The best pilots in EVE don't win because of training hours, it's because they know how to fly their ship and work as a team.

 

The other problem I have with that sort of system is that once you commit to one path it gets increasingly costly to change specialisation. Either training time (ala EVE) or through grinding up a particular path. If you're part of an organisation that needs to change tack in a hurry, you've suddenly got a lot of people with a very unfun training regimen ahead of them that gets in the way of actually playing the game.

 

That's why I'm for putting all the tools in the hands of the players from the get go and letting things play out as they may.

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I get what you mean. The problem I have is that a system like you describe actually involves walling off content in order to create a false sense of specialisation.

 

If the gun controls are being made smoother for one player, then they are being made artificially clunkier for everyone else. Why should one player designated as a 'builder' have access to the full range of tools just because they set 'building' to train to max for the first few hours of the game?

 

To my mind that is unintuitive. And it obfuscates the fact that true player skill isn't based on numbers on a character sheet. The best builders in Space Engineers and Minecraft use the same blocks as everyone else. The best pilots in EVE don't win because of training hours, it's because they know how to fly their ship and work as a team.

 

The other problem I have with that sort of system is that once you commit to one path it gets increasingly costly to change specialisation. Either training time (ala EVE) or through grinding up a particular path. If you're part of an organisation that needs to change tack in a hurry, you've suddenly got a lot of people with a very unfun training regimen ahead of them that gets in the way of actually playing the game.

 

That's why I'm for putting all the tools in the hands of the players from the get go and letting things play out as they may.

So, you mean to tell me that being a sniper that can shoot a guy from 3 kilometers away is something EVERYBODY can do, because apparently, everyone has been trained into handling a high-powered sniper rifle and everyone has gotten windage and bullet drop physics locked down right?

 

Like-wise, you seem to think that a sniper, because he knows his stuff when it comes to windage and bullet-drop and math involed with such things, he can go and become an architect out of the bat.

 

 

It's an MMO, not Skyrim mate. You can't be everything. And EVE is a point and click adventure with Zerg tactics. In EVE you move in a two dimensional space with graphics that make you believe you are in a 3D world.

 

 

And on the part about intuition. What's more intuitive than arrows? A child can understand how arrows work. That's how the skills trees become intuitive.

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The other problem I have with that sort of system is that once you commit to one path it gets increasingly costly to change specialisation. Either training time (ala EVE) or through grinding up a particular path. If you're part of an organisation that needs to change tack in a hurry, you've suddenly got a lot of people with a very unfun training regimen ahead of them that gets in the way of actually playing the game.

 

But that's the point. Going down a skill tree should be an investment. It's like real life; You go through high school and college focused on one major, and you're highly specialized in that particular major, but if you wanna switch majors three-quarters of the way through, you are gonna have a rough time. 

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I think this time-based skill system works for the concept of this game. It encourages playing with other people who are specializing in skills you may not want to prioritize.

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I have to invest in Steady Aim. Then some in Combat Awareness. Then Battle Endurance. That allows me to upgrade some skills to unlock a certain branch of the skill tree I pursue.

Instead of clicking a timer bar which after a few weeks tells me "now you have a steady aim", I would prefer to grab a weapon, look for bad guys, shoot at them for a few weeks until I actually HAVE a steady aim from practising. And I mean real skill from real practise and experience from DOING IT resulting in improved eye hand coordination, improved knowledge about pros and cons concerning differnt weapons and ammo types, cooperation in a team, movement patterns during battles, etc.

 

Compared to that, just sitting in front of spreadsheats chosing timer bars to "unlock" things is just pitiful, and not a game I would ever spend a penny on.

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Instead of clicking a timer bar which after a few weeks tells me "now you have a steady aim", I would prefer to grab a weapon, look for bad guys, shoot at them for a few weeks until I actually HAVE a steady aim from practising. And I mean real skill from real practise and experience from DOING IT resulting in improved eye hand coordination, improved knowledge about pros and cons concerning differnt weapons and ammo types, cooperation in a team, movement patterns during battles, etc.

 

Compared to that, just sitting in front of spreadsheats chosing timer bars to "unlock" things is just pitiful, and not a game I would ever spend a penny on.

Due, cerebral implants, you are uploaded such skills.

 

 

Plus, you are advocating for grinding. This is not Generic Korean MMO #1366431

 

And they could add an "experience leveling" on a certain field.

 

 

Let's say :

 

 

Combat / Tech / Architecture / Inster-a-category

 

 

And then when you are in combat, you get points, until a point of being in "deep waters" where switching to another tree is simply difficult. Which would add up to NQ's idea of "leveling one skill at a time", as you can't really build in combat :P

 

 

In my opinion, there should be a hard-cap on skillpoints and loss of skillpoints on death, rendering your already unlocked skills inert until you reach the amount need once more.

 

Plus, make unlocking a sklll take little to not time, but upgrading on it to take more. Thus :

 

 

Steady Aim 1 is accessible to all players, but Steady Aim 10 is something a few select have, because they decided to play the soldier type, or more precisely, the sniper type. But a sniper, is NOT a weapons' guidance officer on a ship, that's another whole aspect of the skill trees and tech know-how. You know, ships need to be multi-crewd. This is no Star Citizen, dogfighting with frigates xD.

 

 

This is an RPG by the way. It just has no predefined molded classes. You can choose your class by investing in it.

 

 

And if going around shooting random things could get you ACTUAL experience with guns in real-life, then pirate gangs in Somalia would not have been taken down by six man, well-trained and educated soldiers.

 

 

And it's FutureSpace. They have brain-implants that can literally update your brain with new skills. It's the dream of every lazy person, and nobody likes GRINDING.

 

Grinding is for F2P cashgrabs, that sell you "Awesoome Bored-To-Grin-Yet-? Packs" so you pay to get out of grinding.

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Grinding is dull gameplay, I am advocating interesting gameplay. The dullest "gameplay", which even doesn't deserve that name, is clicking and watching timer bars to alter some stratistics.

 

For me, a system as you discribe would be the horror, and it would be out of the question to waste time with such a game. I seriously hope it won't go that direction, not only becasue it would ruin this game, but because one more terrible but cleverly marketed space game would be sucking even more blood out of the genre, making it even harder for a proper space sim MMO (no instancing, real persistence, real player-driven sandbox, real gameplay instead of fostering statistics) to get known and rise to a successful niche.

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