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So, as mentioned in this video interview with the Dual Universe devs, it is said that there will be technological research in order to progress. That means that there will be something similar to tech research in the game. Now, this could mean one of two things.

 

We could have an actual tech tree that must be researched by time and experimentation such as testing things out. Or my prefered one....

 

True experimental research where you must test designs, figure out ideas and as such in order to build what you're looking for, ie a FTL drive.

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i vaguely remember something in a devblog where you use a computer terminal inside the ark that lets you do different researches. and depending on the complexity of the research affects the time. im thinking like civilization research when i read it. im assuming that the early stuff may only take a few mins to an hr. then as you progress further into a certain type maybe hours? or im making crap up and i dont actually have an inkling lol. but if im even remotely right id like the research time to only be max 24hrs. or maybe you instantly gain the skill but have a cooldown till the next one depending on complexity of what you just learned.

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So, as mentioned in this video interview with the Dual Universe devs, it is said that there will be technological research in order to progress. That means that there will be something similar to tech research in the game. Now, this could mean one of two things.

 

We could have an actual tech tree that must be researched by time and experimentation such as testing things out. Or my prefered one....

 

True experimental research where you must test designs, figure out ideas and as such in order to build what you're looking for, ie a FTL drive.

 

As long as this experimentation is fun.... please no RNG grinding madness. Some people have lives outside of gaming...

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i vaguely remember something in a devblog where you use a computer terminal inside the ark that lets you do different researches. and depending on the complexity of the research affects the time. im thinking like civilization research when i read it. im assuming that the early stuff may only take a few mins to an hr. then as you progress further into a certain type maybe hours? or im making crap up and i dont actually have an inkling lol. but if im even remotely right id like the research time to only be max 24hrs. or maybe you instantly gain the skill but have a cooldown till the next one depending on complexity of what you just learned.

 

Thinking about it as well, I remember that much of the constraint of DU will be time as said. To jump to an area using FTL, you need to send out a drone which may take weeks to months. I'm assuming time as well is going to be the major constraint of technological expansion.

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It would be interesting to see how this could play out.

 

Would the tech progression occur on an individual player level, or on a universal level?

 

For instance, would I have to level up the Propulsion skill to a certain level before I could begin to level up Super Fast Propulsion? Or would we instead look back on xx/xx/xx as the date when MasteredRed discovered the trick to FTL?

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It would be interesting to see how this could play out.

 

Would the tech progression occur on an individual player level, or on a universal level?

 

For instance, would I have to level up the Propulsion skill to a certain level before I could begin to level up Super Fast Propulsion? Or would we instead look back on xx/xx/xx as the date when MasteredRed discovered the trick to FTL?

Or, what if research could be shared between individuals. Not only that, parts of it could be shared and sold for a price! That would mean each person has to gather a part of the research in order to unlock something. Meaning maybe for large city structure, it would require a number of parts that could be researched individually, or you could gather up a bunch of people and research a specific part. Not only that, you might be able to buy parts to complete your research.

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Or, what if research could be shared between individuals. Not only that, parts of it could be shared and sold for a price! That would mean each person has to gather a part of the research in order to unlock something. Meaning maybe for large city structure, it would require a number of parts that could be researched individually, or you could gather up a bunch of people and research a specific part. Not only that, you might be able to buy parts to complete your research.

or shared amongst an organization, OR! research that can only be done on an organization level. things that would only be useful inside an organization but not to an indivual.

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or shared amongst an organization, OR! research that can only be done on an organization level. things that would only be useful inside an organization but not to an indivual.

Your right! Massive cities would only be useful for an organization to research. Maybe it should only be allowed by a bigger group. You know, this would also allow R&D members specifically doing this very thing!

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Your right! Massive cities would only be useful for an organization to research. Maybe it should only be allowed by a bigger group. You know, this would also allow R&D members specifically doing this very thing!

i would like to see this implemented into the game somehow.

 

 

i was going to suggest that the more people who choose to research into a single research item on the organization level the quicker it goes, but i realized as i had the thought that it would make it unfair to smaller groups.

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i would like to see this implemented into the game somehow.

 

 

i was going to suggest that the more people who choose to research into a single research item on the organization level the quicker it goes, but i realized as i had the thought that it would make it unfair to smaller groups.

 

Yes that would be the case. It also means my idea of researching parts would make larger groups have an easier time. So it might need to be researched individually for some things but massive collaborations for research on others, which wouldn't be a bad idea at all!

 

I still would like to see some way to trade research.

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I think two things

1: The tech research should exist on EITHER a guild level or a player level, take warframe for example, where you can research for your clan and such.

2: I hope it is more a case of WORK then a case of waiting, cause that is SUPER annoying.

Like research goes further as you work with new metals, new plants and new designs and such.

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I like the idea of both -- groups and players actively researching new technology will get access to them (or knowledge to craft them) first, but eventually it becomes "common knowledge" as the technology spreads.

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I have to ask... Why?

 

This isn't doing research, it's waiting for research to be done. Yes, there is an advantage in different players having the capacity to do different things, but the rpg elements take care of this anyway, and tech tree "research" is the most passive way to go about it.

 

Experimenting with LUA code, trying out in-game mechanical parts, exploring for new materials to try out or ruins to salvage, that has a lot more in common with the activity of doing actual research. From the described demands of exploration, this alone can be an undertaking just as demanding and cooperative if not more. And the level of experimentation would alone provide us with completely different skillsets as builders and completely different technologies as factions. Look at the SE workshop: The death lotus, torpedo designs, robots, various ship automation, drones, in-game Tetris, a plethora of mining techniques and armor designs and plenty more, each of those demanding hundreds of hours and going through dozens of failed experiments (if you are lucky).

 

So what's the benefit of adding a layer of waiting for research to be done over that? Why does it add to the game?

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I have to ask... Why?

 

This isn't doing research, it's waiting for research to be done. Yes, there is an advantage in different players having the capacity to do different things, but the rpg elements take care of this anyway, and tech tree "research" is the most passive way to go about it.

 

Experimenting with LUA code, trying out in-game mechanical parts, exploring for new materials to try out or ruins to salvage, that has a lot more in common with the activity of doing actual research. From the described demands of exploration, this alone can be an undertaking just as demanding and cooperative if not more. And the level of experimentation would alone provide us with completely different skillsets as builders and completely different technologies as factions. Look at the SE workshop: The death lotus, torpedo designs, robots, various ship automation, drones, in-game Tetris, a plethora of mining techniques and armor designs and plenty more, each of those demanding hundreds of hours and going through dozens of failed experiments (if you are lucky).

 

So what's the benefit of adding a layer of waiting for research to be done over that? Why does it add to the game?

To be honest, waiting for research to be done doesn't add anything to the game, but it does cause you to think of priorities. I mean, we're talking about a basic barebones research system, but I'm sure that there will be more to it. Although, if the idea of waiting for research doesn't sound good, then replace time with x. With this, x thing must be achieved before research could be done. In total though, x just means that you have to think about your priorities. In each game, you must think about what accomplishes what and plan out what you need to do first. That way, you don't end up wasting time or other resources.

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Research should be experimental, not a bar with a timer. You either Git Gud at making cool shit or go mining. And I can see experience voxelomancers do insane things. Things that not many can replicate.

 

 

And please, no EVE wait-five-mins-to-learn-shit logic. It's so 2003.

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Research should be experimental, not a bar with a timer. You either Git Gud at making cool shit or go mining. And I can see experience voxelomancers do insane things. Things that not many can replicate.

 

 

And please, no EVE wait-five-mins-to-learn-shit logic. It's so 2003.

 

That would work for design of physical constructs and the LUA coding, but I think OP is referring to the Elements used for constructs, ie FTL drives or stargates. Devices like those aren't something that you can "Git Gud" at. Elements like these need to be made available in a package element, like the cockpit in the video. Otherwise there would need to be some new nonsensical physics system where placements of individual voxels of certain materials causes FTL movement, which would be really weird.

 

The only time I've seen something like that was in Starmade with the weapons and power systems. But even then, those game mechanics, even if they were kept secret from players, would only have been a secret for a short time before the dynamics could be resolved back into some equation for other players to use.

 

So the question of whether or not research should be on an individual or universal scale could settle the physical implementation problem. Though I do think that advanced technology should be in the form of Elements with some sort of research mechanic. Some people don't like to wait, and some people don't like RNG, so why not combine them?

 

For example

John wants technology X so he begins at the research terminal. It will take Y hours by itself. However, John can walk over to the research lab and engage in a research action. This action has W% chance to remove an hour from the research time. John can activate the research action a max total of Z times.

 

Perhaps there is another way to combine mechanics to make it less boring.

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That would work for design of physical constructs and the LUA coding, but I think OP is referring to the Elements used for constructs, ie FTL drives or stargates. Devices like those aren't something that you can "Git Gud" at. Elements like these need to be made available in a package element, like the cockpit in the video. Otherwise there would need to be some new nonsensical physics system where placements of individual voxels of certain materials causes FTL movement, which would be really weird.

 

and would be really fun because you could play around with it instead of just slapping it on your ship and thats it :P

 

ideal would be something along the lines of "easy to get something going, but hard to push it to high efficiencies"

 

with ships and stargates evolving in shape and size to match the latest "most efficient" drive designs.

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@Valenka

They can add stats, like Conductivity, so people can understand what material does what , even having it being color coded (since 67% of the human race consists of average dullards that consider "math and physics" useless ).


This way, you can Git Gud at building. If you are illiterate and can't understand what Conductivity means, then I have some bad news on you with your life's priorities. 


If they were to add cookie-cutter tech trees, then why not add magic? I mean, if you add "Countdown to upgrade" skill trees like EVE has, then why not add Anime weapons as well? I mean, why not? And I mean, why not even add a WoW skill rotation for anything? In fact, make it better than WoW, only 2 buttons, I mean, you will need to eat your fat-greased burger with the other hand. I mean, in fact, you should get rid of the skills and make it a point and click adventure like EVE. I mean, why stop there? Make it a top-down isometric adventure, like Runescape. I mean, why even bother with graphics and open world sandbox gameplay and coding physics if you are to add "Countdown to Upgrade. Respect my skillz, I have played 5000 hours more than you. I like EVE and I want this game to be EVE 2, but CCP is not listening to me and they won't upgrade their 13 years old game engine". 



Fuck it, MAKE DUAL UNIVERSE A PEN AND PAPER ADVENTURE. Why bother with challenge and effort, when you can roll a dice for all your problems?

/sarcasm_off

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Caaaalm down.

no need to get toxic.

All is fine.

We are all on the aame team here.

The problem is they don't get it the polite way. You have to give them sarcasm to realise how dumb some of their requests are. What's the point of LUA scripts if people are going to force the Devs to making it a dumbed-down process of upgrading "tech trees" ? None. What's the point of adding physics? None. As I said, if it comes to that, make it a point and click adventure like EVE.

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@CaptainTwerkmotor We are 2 years away from release. People are having a conversation on the subject and putting in their two cents. No need to go off the rails, especially if it leads you to breaking forum rules. Don't take things so serious when we don't even know all the details of the game yet.

 

Also, I would imagine that your "research" would be something like, make a certain item so many times and you learn over time how to make it better, or make the next tier of said item.

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@TrihXeen


More like learn what X materials work better with Y materials. What I don't want is a "recipe book" in the game, throwing out any expertise the player has out of the window, making crafting items and building a dull process. For example, having certain materials being more tuned towards energy absorption if they are blended together with another material that makes them more sturdy. That kind of thing. Not making the research into "Gather 10 of X, 30 of Y, 40 of Z, and voila, you are a l33tzor builder, congrats, you waited 24 hours to upgrade". 

It won't have to be what I described, but certainly not a "Countdown to Victory" kind of upgrade.

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The problem is they don't get it the polite way. You have to give them sarcasm to realise how dumb some of their requests are. What's the point of LUA scripts if people are going to force the Devs to making it a dumbed-down process of upgrading "tech trees" ? None. What's the point of adding physics? None. As I said, if it comes to that, make it a point and click adventure like EVE.

theres still no need to abandon politeness for that, that is what makes forums toxic and unbearable to read

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