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so i was trying to get my streamer friends to come play this game but they all called it pay2win with disgust and won't play till its not pay2win..so im here to ask if u r planning on dealing with this major problem because its important for the long term success of this game & must be dealt with b4 lunch. & heers a list of reasons why coming form your own community. (1) multiboxing memory macros in pvp totally unfair (2) richy rich wales buying up every plot of land and not reily using it sept to sell it to homeless newbs (3) fast tracking talent tees on multiple characters defeating the point of your long term growth and making em capable of doing everything which is unfair to people without 20+toons (4) basic daily income for etch extra toon angan unfair :(5) incentivising paying for extra  characters look desperate and scamy & people i want to support u.. i want to support u but not in a way that's immoral cheety or feels bad:( ..like waers the cash shop with skins booster and basic parts and materials  and time savers i can buy?. :) just don't do loot crates or paywalls on stuff that can be seen as giving a unfair advantage.. or all be forced to right a new wall of text 

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Debatable. Yes people can multi-box and pay for multiple accounts, but groups of people running only single accounts can also just cooperate. Also, if someone is willing to pay for the half-dozen subs just to collect daily rewards they'd need to outperform a single moderately active miner and have a few extra talents they can apply to a construct via re-logging, I'd be inclined to let them have it. More money to NQ helps them do what they need to do to give us all a better game, and a half-dozen people working together will blow a single guy with a half-dozen alts out of the water near about every time (and please don't argue that it isn't a guarantee means it will ruin the game for everyone forever, exceptions can exist, and all of them are small).

 

When beta launched I was with a group of 20+ guys that b-lined for what we knew would get us easy money at the time. The group would mine, and then since I had classes at the time they were on I would load up the stuff they collected and afk-haul to the market. Sell it, and fly back with the cash. After that, we'd have our 20 guys buy TU, drop them all where we needed more hexes (it was cheaper to have individually owned hexes that were just shared) and keep on.

 

Later, when we got in to PvP, we'd have ships with 1 dedicated pilot, and (if I recall correctly) as many as 5 gunners. We weren't multi-boxing, we were just an actual group of people playing an MMO cooperatively. 

 

If there are people botting, then something needs to be done to stop it, but please be extremely careful in complaints of "pay2win-cause-multibox". Most of the time I hear that argument it is coming from people trying to either solo-play the MMO, or play with only a very small group and getting frustrated that they cant keep up by themselves with a much larger faction. 

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Multiaccounts. Bad habit in any game.  I don't like it either.

Indu Chars are logged out in the Crafting area.

PVP Chars are logged out on Space Station, because in a serious engage of a enemy they just relog to get asap in their battle ships.

Other accounts are logged out on ore supernodes on different planets.

 

 

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Let me get the popcorn.. this is too good so far..

 

 

  

14 hours ago, clarity said:

(1) multiboxing memory macros in pvp totally unfair

Which memory macros in PVP?

If you have any proof of these being used, report the player as it is a violation of TOS

 

Multiboxing in the generally accepted definition is not a thing in DU as it is not possible to run multiple clients on the same machine. Having several character and logging them in when you want to play in their specialization is not multi boxing

 

In the few cases where players will have several computers running different characters working together, a group of players working together will always beat them. And frankly, I would not worry about single players using multiple characters in these cases, I would feel sorry for them not having friends to play with instead.

 

Lastly, many of these instances are backers who used their beta keys for alts. Once the game goes to release and beta ends, so do these alts.

 

 

14 hours ago, clarity said:

(2) richy rich wales buying up every plot of land and not reily using it sept to sell it to homeless newbs

Have you checked the percentages on occupied tiles in game? Care to share specific examples of this happening?

 

 

14 hours ago, clarity said:

(3) fast tracking talent tees on multiple characters defeating the point of your long term growth and making em capable of doing everything which is unfair to people without 20+toons

You can't "fast track" several characters and use the accrued point across all of them. WHat you are saying here it's unfair to solo players when others decided to join an org and have org members apply their specialized training across the org which is _far_ more effective that jumping between alts.

 

Also, you seem to not have a basic understanding of the DU talent system at all

 

 

14 hours ago, clarity said:

(4) basic daily income for etch extra toon angan unfair

Getting 150K/day is peanuts once you get going. It is easy enough to make millions very quickly with minimal effort. The argument really has no merit at all.

 

 

14 hours ago, clarity said:

(5) incentivising paying for extra  characters look desperate and scamy

Why is it bad when some choose to have several characters to enjoy different playstyles?

 

 

In general, sure, there are and will always be some outliers who will minmax using multiple characters. Frankly, I am way more concerned about how some will use untrained alts in PVP as beacons. That is something NQ should address

 

 

Overall, I'd say  your "friends" really have no clue about any of this and you and the game would probably better of without them in regards to the game. There's several here who seem to agree with you, at least to a degree. Why do you guys not team up, get into an org and start working/playing together to show how that is the optimal way to do things instead of complaining over non issues.

 

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On 4/25/2021 at 9:37 AM, blazemonger said:

Let me get the popcorn.. this is too good so far..

 

 

  

Which memory macros in PVP?

If you have any proof of these being used, report the player as it is a violation of TOS

 

Multiboxing in the generally accepted definition is not a thing in DU as it is not possible to run multiple clients on the same machine. Having several character and logging them in when you want to play in their specialization is not multi boxing

 

In the few cases where players will have several computers running different characters working together, a group of players working together will always beat them. And frankly, I would not worry about single players using multiple characters in these cases, I would feel sorry for them not having friends to play with instead.

 

Lastly, many of these instances are backers who used their beta keys for alts. Once the game goes to release and beta ends, so do these alts.

 

 

Have you checked the percentages on occupied tiles in game? Care to share specific examples of this happening?

 

 

You can't "fast track" several characters and use the accrued point across all of them. WHat you are saying here it's unfair to solo players when others decided to join an org and have org members apply their specialized training across the org which is _far_ more effective that jumping between alts.

 

Also, you seem to not have a basic understanding of the DU talent system at all

 

 

Getting 150K/day is peanuts once you get going. It is easy enough to make millions very quickly with minimal effort. The argument really has no merit at all.

 

 

Why is it bad when some choose to have several characters to enjoy different playstyles?

 

 

In general, sure, there are and will always be some outliers who will minmax using multiple characters. Frankly, I am way more concerned about how some will use untrained alts in PVP as beacons. That is something NQ should address

 

 

Overall, I'd say  your "friends" really have no clue about any of this and you and the game would probably better of without them in regards to the game. There's several here who seem to agree with you, at least to a degree. Why do you guys not team up, get into an org and start working/playing together to show how that is the optimal way to do things instead of complaining over non issues.

 


Basically what is said here, some things to add:

1.  multi boxing has never really been the main problem in any MMO, the real issue has always been software allowing broadcasting.

2. calling something pay2win because people can scale up to a large number of accounts and get the daily bonus might make sense at first until.........as you can't login every account at the same time (even if you do this via vm's you will be limited in 99 percent of systems by resourcing you will need to login 1 by 1, at that point you would be better off mining than doing that lol.

Can't get behind this being pay2win anymore than say WOW or FF14...as blaze says, players will stomp anyone trying to multi box a pvp ship.

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hay don't hate the player hate the game..i'm just stating a (( fact )) .. and this is a pay2win because paying real money for something that's locked behind a paywall that givs a unfair advantage or power in eneyway is pay2win and the problem is not alts its the power increase that  can't be unlock ingame for free. and that its incentives by the devs.. & don't get me wrong i'm loving this game thats why im here ...but this games getting a pay2win reputation & thats a death sentence..... seen it b4 many times... and say tooned i got more topics that needs debating.. ;)

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Having multiple accounts does not give you an advantage vs other players in game. That argument is simply nonsense.

Anything one character does or can achieve is not transferable to another character owned by the same player.

 

Any solo player using multiple accounts going up against several people playing together will _always_ be the underdog.

 

It's good to see that you dropped your "friends" excuse to show this is just you and your opinion which really only shows that you have no real idea about this at all.

 

Pay2Win would really only apply if you can only obtain a high tier, endgame or generally decisive item or attribute by using RL $$ with no way or option to do the same in game. While currently not yet activated, once the game actually releases you can use ion game currency to buy gam time so effectively you can have several account pay their way in game without the need to spend RL $$.

 

As said, 4 players doing anything as at team will _always_ beat a solo player with three alts trying the same thing, regardless of what the activity is. There is no question about that at all.

 

The _only_ advantage you get from multiple account is that you can choose your gameplay based on what you'd prefer to do at the time. There is no real advantage in having alts act together for the simple reason that you can't even run two accounts simultaneously on the same machine to begin with.

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Lulz DU Pay2Win?  Not even close. Multiboxing for your daily welfare check?  Ok so doing that with 10 chars, that gets you 1.5M per day.  You know how much of a problem it is to log in 10 characters at the right time each day? I know its a hassle to even relog one character at the right time each day let alone 10.  And what does that equate to ore 65,000 liters or so. You can mine that quick enough with 1 toon, almost as fast as it would take to log in 10 alts.  Alts for cross training is almost a thing. except if you had 3 friends you could cross train the skills with your friends.  you cannot have multiple accounts logged on the same PC, so no PVP advantage there. 

 

Although I find it funny that you call it pay2win and then ask where the cash shop is to buy basic materials, That would be pay2win. although buying skins is a planned feature and not pay2win. 

 

And whats this about buying up land? The vast majority of land is unclaimed. There are  903660 territories of which  105097 are claimed. Thats only 11 percent claimed. 89 percent of all the claimable  land is still open to buy.  Thats hardly buying up all the land.  Unless your refering to people going out and scanning for high yield territories and then claiming them and selling those claims. Then yes players are doing that. Thats one of the way players can make money.  And you can make allot more money doing that then having 50 alts and logging on to collect your daily welfare check. 

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Since talents train passively rather than while actively playing, yet having a bunch of extra toons training can give you an advantage in industry. 

 

Other than that, extra toons don’t give a lot of advantage. 

 

Yes i I admit I brought some beta keys with in game quanta, and because of that I have two characters who have focused fully on mining skills and one who has fully focused on industry. Yes that gives me a slight advantage; but I could just have easily focused only on mining with my only character and had a org mate start up factory machines for me. 

 

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11 hours ago, CoyoteNZ said:

Since talents train passively rather than while actively playing, yet having a bunch of extra toons training can give you an advantage in industry. 

 

How does that work? and give you an advantage how?

 

What advantage will one person with two character have versus two players with one character each? Guess what, the two players will _always_ have the upper hand in any situation, including industry. Having to log in another character for a specific purpose in the same situation seems like a hassle to me.

 

The _only_ potential advantage I can see is a well trained pilot who will be able to fly characters and cargo around. And even then, the advantage is slim at best. As long as you can't effectively run two characters at the same time and have them co-operate well, the benefit is minimal at best.

 

Most Alts are characters on beta keys at this point I am sure, and many of these will expire once the game comes out of beta. For me , that will leave me with a generalist, a pilot (or industrialist) and a trader .. 

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